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10 Points of Interest: Pavlik-Hopkins and undercard

E249eea908736533cfe32ed8666d6d92-getty-82048250jz027_kelly_pavlik__medium I thought I'd be in bed by now, but I'm still up, so we'll get a jump on tomorrow's thoughts and put them together right now.

1. "Executioner" once more

In April, Joe Calzaghe ran Bernard Hopkins ragged, testing his age, his conditioning, and his ability to counter-punch.

Last night, Kelly Pavlik meant to do the same, but that gameplan never had a chance to get off the ground. Hopkins came out firing at Pavlik right away, and owned the ring for a full 12 rounds.

You cannot complain that Hopkins was boring, because he not only fought hard and brought action, but he absolutely made Pavlik look like a bum fighter, which Pavlik is not.

It was another defiant action from the man who has re-written the books on going against boxing's establishment, and yet another night where he proved every doubter amazingly wrong. It's been quite a while since he's truly fought as "The Executioner" of old. Even when he dominated Antonio Tarver and made him look foolish, it didn't resonate the way this win does.

Hopkins, 43, demolished a strong, damn good fighter 17 years his junior. He outworked him, outlanded him, and beat him to the punch. His footwork made Pavlik look like Samuel Peter. Pavlik chased, but couldn't catch the old man.

If Bernard fights on, which he does not need to, don't doubt him again. I'm talking as much to myself as anyone else.

2. Weighty issues

Maybe it was the weight. There's no denying Pavlik looked slower in every possible way fighting at 170 pounds. Frankly, I didn't think he looked that great in February against Taylor at 164.

Pavlik and Jack Loew can talk all they want about how it's better to not drain weight and get down to 160, but all fighters, really, drain weight to get to their limit. At 160, Pavlik is much stronger than most of the other fighters, has a lot of snap on his shots, and moves around better. Getting down to 160 with proper training just makes him a very strong 160. Pavlik says he walks around at 175, so he only dropped a few pounds.

His conditioning trainer says they bulked him up and brought him down, but he really didn't come down much. Not draining the weight probably made Pavlik feel sluggish in there. He certainly looked it.

3. Great fighters lose if they fight great fighters

The loss does not ruin Kelly Pavlik's career, but the dejected, thoroughly beaten look on his face after the fight does worry me. Pavlik has had a lot thrust upon him; he's been called the emerging centerpiece of American boxing. He was basically considered the savior of his hometown, said by all that live in Youngstown that he was the best thing to happen to the city.

He was a God at home. He should remain one. Because he's a fantastic fighter, a gracious professional, and a classy guy that did his best. He came up short. It happens.

It happened because he chose to fight great competition instead of waiting around for something else or fighting a lesser opponent for the second straight time. He took his mandatory with Gary Lockett and blew him out. He would've caught flak for taking another "lackluster" fight. He took a chance fighting Hopkins. It didn't pay off, though in the long term, Pavlik learned something tonight, probably.

4. Is this OK to wonder...?

I think Jack Loew seems like a hell of a nice guy. No doubt Kelly Pavlik owes Loew a lot.

But is Jack Loew REALLY qualified to essentially single-handedly train a world champion fighter? I'm not saying one loss means Pavlik should replace Loew. Not at all. But adding a second to his team, a name guy that can give him another set of eyes and ears -- that might not hurt. We've seen Eddie Chambers bring in Buddy McGirt as a second to his father, and Bernard Hopkins kept Nazim Richardson in his corner while he recovered from his stroke, and he also has John David Jackson around. Adding an experienced, qualified, big fight veteran guy in the corner might be a decent idea. Loew is what he is, but he also has exactly one pro fighter under his care.

5. Billy Dib and the great attempt to single-handedly ruin the show

Dib was so awful in his challenge to WBO featherweight titlist Steven Luevano that I felt bad for Luevano, who is now in a contender for Worst Fight of the Year, made even more excruciating because we all paid $50 and that was part of the money we spent. Dib is a loudmouth punk, can't punch, and vastly overrates his own stylish defensive ability. How Shane Mosley backs this chump I'll never figure out.

Dib is not without talent or flair, but he's never beaten anyone and didn't deserve this shot to begin with. Luevano outclassed him in the most bowling shoe ugly of ways. Hopefully Luevano can get a good fight, because he deserves better than that stinkfest.

6. Rubio-Ornelas: Fight of the Night

It didn't mean as much and wasn't as memorable as the main event, but pound-for-pound, the fight of the night was Marco Antonio Rubio's hard-fought split decision win over Enrique Ornelas. A blistering, edge-of-your-seat final couple of rounds, with Ornelas wobbling and miraculously staying on his feet, finished a fight that was all hard-punching from round one through twelve.

In short, it was exactly the slugfest, throwback fight many thought it could be, and it was damn fun to watch. The Atlantic City crowd wasn't the same people that used to cover the seats for Arturo Gatti; had it been those folks, the fight would have gotten the live reaction it deserved. Instead, Rubio and Ornelas, leaving it all in the ring in the WBC middleweight eliminator, were given a tepid response during the fight and a mild ovation afterward. They deserved better. They fought with a lot of guts. It wasn't Vazquez-Marquez or anything, but it was hard-hitting stuff.

7. Tyrone Watson isn't very good

That'll probably be the last time we see "T.T." on TV, unless he scrapes into an ESPN card sometime. Twice in fifteen days we saw him knocked off, first by Fernando Guerrero on ShoBox, and now wasted in a round by the very exciting Daniel Jacobs, who looks like Yuriorkis Gamboa with some defensive ability. Jacobs has yet to be tested at all, but he's got serious skills.

8. Back to Rubio

With his win over Ornelas, Rubio becomes the mandatory WBC challenger, one of the two alphabet belts Pavlik owns. Rubio would be a fine next opponent for Pavlik, even if it meant they'd have to go on Boxing After Dark. Rubio is a straightforward fighter, not in Pavlik's league, and would give Kelly a chance to get his groove back. He'd also come out swinging and give it his best shot, the same as Gary Lockett did, but Rubio is better than Lockett. He showed against Ornelas he can take a shot or ten; I like the fight for both parties, and think it could be a hell of a scrap.

9. Where does it rank?

For Hopkins, this was one of his best performances. Ever. Period. It was also what I would rank right now as the performance of the year. Nobody has owned a night the way Bernard did last night. When he stared down the ringside media, one-by-one, writers and commentators that picked him to lose (many by knockout for the first time ever), I was one of those that got some form of chills.

Bernard Hopkins goes beyond his era, which few fighters really do. He's an all-time great.

Does this one beat his dominant performance against Tito Trinidad seven years ago? I have to say it does. Trinidad was never a great middleweight. And Bernard wasn't at an age that should be considered past his prime.

To me, I'll say it again: this was Bernard's greatest fight ever. He was unbelievable.

10. Bounce back, Kelly

I'm still a huge believer in Kelly Pavlik, and a huge fan. I can't wait to see him get back in the ring. All this talk of moving past middleweight should be put on the backburner. Defend your championship, Ghost. Get back on the horse.

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Danny Jacobs is the reals

But I’ve said that in other threads before. As a side note, if you want to see what might be the worst boxer in history, search Youtube for Jacobs’ second fight. His opponent was pretty much as unskillful as any boxer I’ve ever seen; yes, even worse than the mullet boxer.

Out of curiosity, does this win help put the close Calzaghe fight into more perspective, or did Hopkins just look like a completely different fighter in this fight?

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 19, 2008 12:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh

And this makes it pretty obvious that I severely underrated Hopkins. I hadn’t given Hopkins too much credence since the Tarver fight – he beat a guy whose best weight is 154 and who was a bad style matchup even at 160, then he lost close to another past-peak fighter fighting over his best weight. Yes, Pavlik was fighting well over his best weight, but this was a prime fighter who’s top 10 P4P, and it sounds like he just made him look silly. So I’ll own up – my ranking of Hopkins sucked, and he’ll be back in my top 10 for sure.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 19, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopkins was way different than against Calzaghe

He pressed action when he felt like it, seemed to hit Pavlik at will, and probably realized that this was his fight about two minutes into it. Calzaghe, with his constant motion and odd angles, gave Hopkins fits (I thought). Pavlik was just a target.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 19, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really really really

want to see a Hopkins Calzaghe rematch, especially with Hopkins new “style.” He said after the fight that anyone he fight for now on, “i’m going for the KO” and he’d “go all the way to England to fight the Welshman.”

For the record, this is not my attempt to imply subtly that Belichick is nothing without cheating and Tom Brady. Seriously. I am straight-out saying: Belichick is nothing without cheating and Tom Brady ~ DJ Gallo

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 19, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Scott

I am not sure if you are aware, but one of those webpages that you have from the list of different sites: boxingscene.com. That shit is infected with spyware and viruses man. Already fucked up two of my computers.

"I beat him so bad, he ended up in the Hospital. And I am still pretty." -Cassius Clay

by CRAZEDANG1280 on Oct 19, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hey, good

Macs block that crap really well, but guessiing by their high class blinking YOU WIN A CAR ads, I kind of always figured.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 19, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow thanks a lot asshole

"I beat him so bad, he ended up in the Hospital. And I am still pretty." -Cassius Clay

by CRAZEDANG1280 on Oct 19, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

My “hey, good” was sarcastic and in their direction. I took the link down thanks to your info. I never knew it because I use a Mac and that stuff is less of a hassle than most PCs. You did me a favor, dude.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 19, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My fault then

They have good website for news but that shit just really got to me. I couldn’t believe it, probably porn they are running in the background. Didn’t think you were being sarcastic. My fault, but that really doesn’t help me on my end. Again, I am not blaming it on you.

"I beat him so bad, he ended up in the Hospital. And I am still pretty." -Cassius Clay

by CRAZEDANG1280 on Oct 19, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's cool, man

I always worried they had that stuff. Their low-rent ads are a big red flag. I think they do a wonderful job of collecting news (even if they almost never credit a source for the stuff they didn’t get themselves) and I like many of their feature writers (most of them, in fact), but it’s not exactly the classiest joint around.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 19, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No you're right

When I read something from Primerahora.com or Endi.com in boxing; boxing scene has it 100% plagiarized only in English.

"I beat him so bad, he ended up in the Hospital. And I am still pretty." -Cassius Clay

by CRAZEDANG1280 on Oct 20, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopkins

Credit where its due. He tricked Pavlik like he tricked me and i guess most of us. I NO IDEA he could do that at 43, NO IDEA Pavlik would be so lost with the additional weight. He looked lifeless. That will probably be the performence of the year. Good Fight i enjoyed it.

Where does Hopkins go now? Re-match with Joe? After all he could handle a black fighters slickness….

by dinkman on Oct 20, 2008 3:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Hopkins can beat Joe, esp in England. If he can’t get a decision here against him, he damn sure wont get it overseas. He has to win by KO, and he ain’t gonna KO Joe. Joe has a pretty solid chin, and Hopkins just isn’t really a KO artist. Besides that, Hopkins doesn’t do well against busy fighters. He is simply too old for that. Unless he really lands some clean hard power punches all night long against JC’s little-girl-slap flurries, he wont win. The busy fighter will always get the nod.

Roy Jones Jr. is really all that’s left for B-Hop. I hope retirement after that. Not because he’s not any good or can’t fight, but I’m not sure who else is out there for him to fight. Maybe a heavyweight fight? Might be too much weight though, but you never know with Bernard.

I was a believer of B-Hop since before the Trinidad fight. Y’all know his style and y’all know what types of fighters play into his style. This should have been a no-brainer.

by erod on Oct 20, 2008 9:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Think he'll still fight Jones

even if Jones loses to Calzaghe? I suppose in one way that’s technically the only fight for either man, considering their status.

But if Hopkins is willing (not saying he has to, in the least) to take on risk for a lesser payday there’s always Chad Dawson. I’m not really interested in a rematch with Calzaghe, and I don’t think Joe is either. Heck, Joe’s can really go through with his retirement now if he beats Jones, since the clamoring for him to fight Pavlik is subdued.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 20, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've also got no interest in Joe-Bernard II

Just wasn’t a good fight and I don’t need to see it again.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 20, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bernard knocked Joe down early in Vegas

and he was in his usual style back then. If he fought Joe like he fought Kelly, I believe he could beat him. Do you ever want to doubt Bernard again?

For the record, this is not my attempt to imply subtly that Belichick is nothing without cheating and Tom Brady. Seriously. I am straight-out saying: Belichick is nothing without cheating and Tom Brady ~ DJ Gallo

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Oct 20, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's a style thing, too, though

Joe moves around a ton, is far slicker than Kelly, and gives a lot of different looks. Pavlik was there all night to be hit. Joe isn’t. I really have no interest in seeing Calzaghe move around Hopkins all night again.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Oct 20, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopkins finally let his hands go and that was the difference. Had he done that vs Taylor and Calzaghe he would have won those fights. I mean just a 10 to 15% increase in output was all that was needed.

In this fight he pressed the action. He was the one that commanded the ring and pace. He was the guy who was saying I am the big mad mofo that you have never seen. He took Pavlik biggest strength and made it a weakness. He depended too much on a flush right hand to win fights. He couldn’t get that off vs Hopkins for various reasons.

Hopkins quite simply had the performance of the year.

by Zocalo on Oct 21, 2008 3:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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