HBO World Championship Boxing: New graphics, same Larry
Usually I wouldn't devote an entire post to talking about the actual broadcast from HBO or any other network, but there was some important stuff last night on the revamped World Championship Boxing presentation that we didn't see on the Boxing After Dark show from the week before. And there is also a quote that probably deserves to be addressed.
Let's start with the quote, from Larry Merchant: "Oscar de la Hoya is in nearby Anaheim where his company got a 5 million dollar fee from a t-shirt maker, so that he can be personally involved in the promotion of a mixed martial arts show. It would take that much to get me to go to one of those things."
I like Larry Merchant, but he and Lampley have got to get over their infantile vendetta against MMA. Look, we get it, you don't like it. Can't these guys take the road that ESPN writer Dan Rafael takes? Rafael has repeatedly stated that he has watched MMA, he understands the appeal, but it's just not for him. That's fine. Lampley and Merchant seem to think this childish sniping is going to change the fact that mixed martial arts has a massive lead in key demographics like 18-34 year old males and, you know, pretty much everyone else besides Latinos and African-Americans and old people that like combat sports still and haven't given up on boxing while grumbling that they don't make 'em like Marciano no more, conflabbit.
I also think it's worth taking issue with the validity of Merchant's suggestion that Oscar was paid $5 million to appear at the Affliction show. According to Bloody Elbow's Michael Rome, the entire Affliction payroll for the performers last night was around $4.6 million, if Fedor's unverified bonus is the $1.3 million that is being reported. Maybe a bit more than $4.6 million.
Are you telling me that in this economy, with a company that is struggling financially and had horrible results selling tickets in Anaheim last night, that Oscar de la Hoya got $5 million at the lowest point of his career since he became a superstar to just sit there? That's more than the entire fighter payroll of that show.
I get the feeling Larry may have been slightly misinformed. No doubt Affliction paid Oscar to appear, but $5 million? Come on.
Also, I have to take some offense as a fan of both sports to Merchant's snide remark and Lampley's shared chuckling because the two would, I will guarantee, use the word "barbaric" or "dangerous" when talking about why they don't like mixed martial arts. I don't care who likes what sport, and I don't really care why they do or don't. It makes no difference in my life. But we're watching a fight on HBO where Antonio Margarito tried to come to the ring, reportedly, with a "plaster-like substance" on his wraps, and MMA is barbaric?
Glass houses, guys.
Apart from that, though, HBO has done a phenomenal job with their remodeling effort for World Championship Boxing. New animated graphics have finally gotten the program out of feeling like it's stuck in 1996, there was a great pre-fight feature on Shane Mosley and the BALCO scandal, and when Lampley was given the wraps story, he did what he does best: he reported dutifully and honestly on the spot. Lampley also called the fight beautifully, as he always does.
Bigger than that, too, there were short video features on both fighters just before they walked to the ring, sort of like what UFC does before their fights. Little sit-down interviews, soundbyte stuff, things that engage the viewing audience.
Those changes made a world of difference for the broadcast, I thought, and all kudos to the HBO production team for an all-around great job with the broadcast last night. The new look and feel was long overdue, and they're off to a great start.
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"barbaric" and "dangerous" is boxing, not MMA
I’m a boxing fan first, likely will always be a boxing fan first. But to say that MMA is more barbaric, dangerous or brutal than boxing is to deny that scientific evidence. Having a ten second chance to let your brain reset before getting smashed again, that’s barbaric. Wearing gloves that dull the instant impact but not the concussive impact, that’s barbaric.
Some may eventually, but I don’t know any MMA fighters who sound like Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield or Ali, none. Listen to Randy Couture, he’s gotten KO’d several times, but there more clean KOs. I don’t know the numbers on deaths boxing v. MMA, but I bet people die much more frequently while boxing. Despite the brutal appearance of MMA, it’s not as damaging, dangerous or brutal as boxing.
Larry and Jim just suffer from severe cases of OWMD- Old White Man’s Disease.
by lcollins1 on Jan 25, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I tivoed the mosley fight last night
and watched the affliction fight on a free feed on the internet. I was interested to see the main event bc Arvloski is trained by Freddy Roach. He was trying to box him, and it was working extremely well, until he got knocked out during a flying knee, not a boxing move by the way. I like MMA when it is stand up but I don’t much care for the ground game but that’s me and if someone else likes it I will not say anything bad about it.
I to liked revamped coverage with the intros and all that. I am looking forward to how they do that when there is more then one fight and one ends early. Like the De la Hoya card.
by TXroyal on Jan 25, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve enjoyed many MMA matches.
It’s the shriekingly over-the-top MMA announcers and the dumb-ass “heavy metal” promotional accouterments that I could live without.
by Matt Miller on Jan 25, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Obviously I am an "MMA guy"
but I’m also a boxing guy since I was a child. And I will agree that there are aspects of the “culture” of MMA that I don’t like. Namely the Affliction T-Shirt wearing guys who think because they’ve seen an armbar on PPV and bought a shirt that they can fuck your world up or whatever. I enjoy the “dressing up to see a big fight” aspect of boxing crowds more than the “wear the shirt that shows your guns the best” aspect of MMA fans.
I’ll still take some of our announcers over some of the boxing guys…for example Joe Rogan can get a little screamy at times but he also actively trains and can provide depth on his insight that you only get in boxing from a guy like Teddy Atlas. Every sport has it’s good and bad announcers, cultural representations, etc. We have Tito Ortiz announcing shows and sounding like a moron…boxing has Lennox Lewis….and so on…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lennox Lewis is obtuse….
I will never forgive him for saying that fighters go to Las Vegas to get away from distractions to train because there are no night clubs or parties.
by Zocalo on Jan 25, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it’s that I’m a little older than Scott and most posters here—a little further along into geezerdom than my friends in the age demographic Scott cites—but the overall vibe and feel to how MMA fights are delivered does turn me off. There’s the Affliction element that I’m not too keen on, but it’s also what seems to me a current of dishonesty in many commentators. I don’t know them as individuals as well as I do boxing announcers, and I’m sure there are good MMA commentators. But to me, it seems they seldom admit when a fight is a stinker or a mismatch. There is this effort to act as if every MMA matchup is the greatest thing ever. Hype overload. Boxing commentators, as a whole, seem more honest about the failings of their own sport.
Then there’s the fact that MMA events don’t fit with most of my friends, so I generally watch them alone. I’m older, and I’m a college Professor, and while many of my friends have at least historical appreciation for boxing, MMA comes off as something geared for a more testosterone-fueled crowd than I tend to roll with.
by Matt Miller on Jan 25, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But to me, it seems they seldom admit when a fight is a stinker or a mismatch.
This is true, and it’s what I used to really love about Pride broadcasts with Stephen Quadros and Bas Rutten. They would call shit out on the carpet. They were even harsh.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
by SC on Jan 25, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Rogan...
will call a bad fight a bad fight. EVERY SINGLE TIME he feels that is the case. Some fights that the “uneducated” (and I don’t mean that disrespectfully…just honestly) find boring, such as fights with a lot of ground work and very little stand-up Rogan will call great because he thinks ground work is interesting if done at a high level.
A more “company guy” like (UFC announcer) Mike Goldberg will try to sell bad fights as good though. The Elite XC guys on CBS were just awful though…everything was so incredibly overstated that it took away from the broadcast. Seth Petruzelli knocking out Kimbo Slice was not one of the greatest moments in the history of sport…but they sure tried to sell it like it was.
See Matt, you have legitimate reasons that MMA isn’t “for you” and that’s more than okay with me. The guys that MMA fans should get upset with are people like Merchant who use their post to not build up their own product but tear another down. Obviously on the whole you don’t have to pay people $5 million to get them to show up to MMA events…the sport is a success even if his liver spotted old ass isn’t in a seat.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 25, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, again, I’ve watched MMA fights that totally captivated me. I loved watching Couture’s Greco-Roman smackdown againt Gonzaga. I’m not anti-MMA in any way. I was just expressing one side of things.
by Matt Miller on Jan 27, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Merchant and Oscar just don’t like each other… we can’t forget that. Oscar for years has tried to get him fired from HBO.
I do miss the old musical scores.
by Zocalo on Jan 25, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Both MMA and boxing fans seem pretty sensitive about this whole thing. Boxing fans are jealous of the attention MMA received and MMA fans cry when boxing commentators don’t respect “their” sport. As someone who absolutely refuses to care about MMA, I agree with much of what Larry and Jim say. That said, for a lot of boxing only fans, nothing you can say about our over sensitivity will change our opinion.
And, gosh, EVERYONE but Latinos, African Americans, and old people likes MMA. Interesting, so, that leaves Caucasians and Asians. OMG, if white people and Asians like MMA, I should too, I’m white! Oh shit, and I’m in the 18-34 demo, how stupid am I? Ugh, pretty weak argument SC.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
by BeastMode on Jan 25, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well, ok
Your argument toward me here is exceptionally over-simplified, and yes, if I’d said what you’re implying I did, I would be pretty stupid.
I absolutely did not say:
1. That everyone but Latinos, African-Americans and old people like MMA.
2. That every white person prefers MMA.
3. That there is NO 18-34 demographic in boxing.
4. That Latinos or blacks or anyone else only enjoy one sport.
And you’re also smart enough to read what I did say and not really believe that I said, “Latinos and blacks and Clint Eastwood like boxing. MMA is enjoyed by all white people. Literally all of them watch MMA, especially all 18-34 year olds. I think Asian people like MMA too even though Manny Pacquiao is Chinese or whatever.”
Amazingly, I’m a 26-year old white male that enjoys both sports, yet strongly prefers boxing. So maybe I’m actually typing gibberish that only I understand right now, or maybe you mistook the things I said. I’m going to bet it’s the latter. I’ll go -1300 on it.
The Latino and African-American demographic is more favorable for boxing, partially because there have generally been very few notable Latino or black stars in MMA, whereas there have been many in boxing, and boxing is such a large part of the sports culture among so many Latinos (Mexicans and Puerto Ricans especially, and they make up the majority of the US Latino market).
MMA, because of its presentation and far superior marketing (and by MMA I mostly mean UFC), is geared toward a younger audience, and they DESTROY boxing in those demographics. Boxing does better (in comparison to its own numbers) with older viewers, most of whom grew up with the sport.
I’m not sensitive about it, but Merchant’s statement was smug, cherry-picked, pointless, and served only to entertain himself and Lampley. Taking umbrage with what seems like a pretty dumb — and probably factually inaccurate — statement doesn’t make me overly sensitive, it means I was paying attention and think it’s worth noting. Which I still believe.
I apologize if I sound like I’m being an asshole, but you’ve been here before and I’m hoping you don’t actually think I’m as stupid as you’re making me out to be. I’m not saying I’m a genius or even of above average intelligence, but come on, man. C’mon.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
by SC on Jan 25, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think my main point was, I wasn’t really sure what the point of noting that Latinos and African Americans have not warmed up to MMA and MMA is doing awesome with Caucasians and Asians. As if that gave MMA some sort of added credibility.
The only thing you noted that matters is the 18-34 demographic. That said, I’m not sure what else boxing can do in that regard. And, I’d really prefer that it avoid making it professional wrestling but, ya know, real. If you have great ideas for how boxing can perform better within that market, feel free to share your ideas.
With regard to Lampley and Merchant disliking MMA and making their opinion known. The problem I see, is that a lot of MMA followers demand those that have not been drinking the Kool-Aid to do so. Sorry, not everyone is going to accept MMA nor should they have to and those two have enough credibility and stature to say pretty much what they want. As for the accuracy of Merchant’s statement, we really don’t know for sure whether his reporting of $5 million to Oscar is inaccurate, other than your speculation.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
by BeastMode on Jan 26, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“The only thing you noted that matters is the 18-34 demographic. That said, I’m not sure what else boxing can do in that regard”
How about letting the people follow fighters and make judgement calls for themselves. Give more opportunites to show real up and comers and let the casual latch on. Instead of disrespecting them and filling 45 mins of dead air with old men talking.
“With regard to Lampley and Merchant disliking MMA and making their opinion known. The problem I see, is that a lot of MMA followers demand those that have not been drinking the Kool-Aid to do so. Sorry, not everyone is going to accept MMA nor should they have to and those two have enough credibility and stature to say pretty much what they want.”
I’ve presented facts, tore down fallacies and even answered questions about the sport. I’ve never forced it on anyone.
I don’t mind people not liking it, but it’s not 1994 anymore.
by RoyalB on Jan 26, 2009 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said a lot, not all, and I have no freaking clue who you are or how you have defended MMA.
Saying it isn’t 1994 anymore and that people need to get with the times won’t exactly endear MMA to hardcore boxing fans either.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
by BeastMode on Jan 26, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My last comment was about the mindset many Hardcore Boxing fans have with the sport. They still think what happened in 1994 still applies today.
by RoyalB on Jan 26, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might I also add that Larry’s “zinger” has about the same affect as shooting an innocent bystandard simply because he lived in the same neighborhood as the guy who shot your dog.
If HBO has a beef, it’s with Dana White. Not Vadim Fink.
by RoyalB on Jan 26, 2009 5:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t really sure what the point of noting that Latinos and African Americans have not warmed up to MMA and MMA is doing awesome with Caucasians and Asians. As if that gave MMA some sort of added credibility.
OK, that’s fair. I was just talking about demographics, and the only demos that boxing performs well in against MMA (and I hate “against” but since that’s sort of the idea here, whatever) are Latinos and blacks, really. I also think that in time, MMA will build their audiences there. Those are markets they haven’t really tapped yet, and with fighters like Rashad Evans emerging alongside an established star like Quinton Jackson, progress is being made slowly. Miguel Torres is a guy anyone is going to like to watch fight, but he’s in WEC. There are several more fighters of note, but compared to boxing it’s not close.
Of course we could also note the biggest audience, which is people that don’t give a shit about either sport.
The only thing you noted that matters is the 18-34 demographic. That said, I’m not sure what else boxing can do in that regard. And, I’d really prefer that it avoid making it professional wrestling but, ya know, real. If you have great ideas for how boxing can perform better within that market, feel free to share your ideas.
If you want to appeal to a younger audience, you have to market it better. Honestly I don’t think the promoters spend nearly enough money on advertising, which is a statement I can answer, too, because they spend a lot of their money on the main events. I mean Affliction paid a little less than $5 mil for the entire show’s talent. Manny Pacquiao’s gonna make in the neighborhood of $15-20 million to fight Ricky Hatton, who will make a little less than that and probably wind up around $10-12 million, if I was just wagering a guess.
But really, the fights are only advertised to those of us that know they exist, you know what I mean? You can catch a WWE or UFC PPV ad at random on TV, and Oscar’s bigger fights get that level of promotion, too.
I do, however, think some strides are being made. ESPN actually paying even minor attention to the sport is a big step in the right direction. Also one of the things I felt was another problem was that the TV presentation on HBO and other networks felt stale and way outdated. WCB’s new graphic design and approach to the broadcast was excellent and HBO deserves a lot of credit for that. Little things like that can add up.
With regard to Lampley and Merchant disliking MMA and making their opinion known. The problem I see, is that a lot of MMA followers demand those that have not been drinking the Kool-Aid to do so. Sorry, not everyone is going to accept MMA nor should they have to and those two have enough credibility and stature to say pretty much what they want.
I personally just don’t see what it added to an otherwise great broadcast. And to go further, since I’ve heard Lampley’s opinions enough, my problem doesn’t lie with the fact that they don’t like it, it lies with the fact that they’re misinformed and ignorant in their aggressive dislike of MMA. I also get why sportswriters don’t like steroids, but I do wish more of them would at least wikipedia “steroids” sometime and learn at least a little about what the hell they’re so viciously against.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
by SC on Jan 26, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never said what Lampley and Merchant said added to the broadcast, I just don’t think it’s worth getting upset about. Then again, I follow boxing exclusively and do not watch MMA, so it doesn’t bother me as much.
Regarding advertising, I agree better advertisement could help. I think what would really help boxing, as much as anything, is leaving PPV’s for truly fantastic fights, or, creating blockbuster cards with more than one decent fight. And, yes, the talent fees are probably too high, though I think that’s a battle that will take quite a while to win – though, if boxing really does fully recede from the mainstream there may not be enough money to pay these guys upwards of $20 million for maybe 36 minutes of action.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
by BeastMode on Jan 26, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
undercard aired by box azteca
had no idea where to post this but for those interested most of the undercard was aired by box azteca last night, and as i understood it box azteca airs on sundays for the people who aren’t as close to mexico as i am. box azteca also aired the margarito-mosley fight too for the record. it was kind of funny hearing the clear sadness in the commentator’s voices as margarito was gettin KO’d. completely understandable, but still funny.
by battle axe of doom on Jan 25, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Larry
Hey Scott,
Good article. I’ll say this as a big boxing fan and someone that doesn’t really like MMA: Larry Merchant is an old school man. He is a company man too, just like Lampley. They duifully sell their product – for better or worse – in the same way someone someone might sell a can of soup. Merchant will never suddenly “love” MMA, unless someone suddenly decided to paid him to. I imagine it was the same way with Oscar, and whether it was for 5 mill or 5 thou I don’t think its not really fair to suggest there’s much of a difference. In fact, the only real diff is that DLH owns Ring and GBP, and Larry doesn’t. That’s not really criticism it just is how it is.
Count me among the few that will miss Merchant when he is gone. Even though Lampley still does good blow-by-blow, I’d pay real money to have an “OFF” button for Lampley, Lennox and Howdy Doody Kellerman. But when guys like Merchant and Sugar pass – drunken gaffs and all – I will definitely feel a break with my own past, and I think the sport will get a little bit more vanilla. Just my $0.02.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
by jrok on Jan 26, 2009 12:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll miss Larry
His drunken poet routine doesn’t work for everyone anymore, but I’m still sold.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
by SC on Jan 26, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RIght...
I LIKE Larry when he is talking boxing. I just don’t understand the idea that his idea of building up his sport is to try to tear down another. That not only added no value to the broadcast, it did nothing to build up HBO, the card or boxing as a whole. You don’t build up your “soup” to use your example…by in the middle of a commercial shitting on fabric softener. “Yeah, we would have used the Snuggle Bear in our ad for chicken noodle soup…but Downy gave him an added $5 mil to be there….that’s how much it’d take me to show up on a Downy ad too!”
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 26, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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