Bad Left Hook Divisional Boxing Rankings - Updated October 11
I decided to spend too much time putting together division-by-division top tens, plus the pound-for-pound top 20 from September on the same page. It's not a post, technically, so there's nowhere on the page itself for discussion, and since discussion is what drives this site, this post is meant to be a hub for that.
These rankings are not meant to be definitive, just yet another set of top tens to put into the machine. They are but one man's opinion, after all. Fighters that are inactive for one year will not be ranked unless they have a fight currently scheduled. Ring Magazine champions are not automatically ranked No. 1 in their division, but it helps mightily. Some fighters who are about to move up a division will be ranked in the division they're moving into, others may not. It all just depends on the fighter and their broader intentions. Not all fights that are listed in the upcoming sections are concrete, and many are speculative, but look like they will be made.
These are just rankings, nothing more. They're not the most serious thing in the world. Hope you enjoy looking through, and with the scattershot strawweight division especially, I can only say I did my best.
Enjoy, discuss, share your own rankings for as many divisions as you wish, and thanks for reading.
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I really have trouble that Wladimir Klitschko isn’t on the p4p list somewhere. Yes, the heavyweight division is pretty weak, but it’s not like he’s the sad little king of a sad little hill. He’s the utterly dominant king of a pretty sad hill. Even the folks who are regarded as kind of legitimate tests he completely out-classes, night after night, and he and his brother both seem well nigh unbeatable right now. No love at all? Harsh.
by schraubd on Oct 11, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking myself.
Part of the reason Oscar looked so bad was because he was fighting someone (Manny Pacquiao) who was so bloody awesome.
In the same way, part of the reason the heavies look so bloody awful is because even when the best of them fight Wlad or Vitali, they are made to look silly over and over again. I don’t like them either as fighters or as figures within boxing, but it is hard to deny they are fantastic at what they do.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Oct 11, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like them both. If my P4P extended to 25, they would actually both be there. They’re right on the chopping block for me and I understand anyone putting either or both of them in. There are just a lot of outstanding fighters out there, and the Klitschkos are no more impressive in their domination than Edgar Sosa, really, they’re just on TV more.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree that the Klitschkos are devastating fighters. At the very least, both should be top 15 ahead of Kelly Pavlik. They are both more technically sound and rack up the TKOs with ease.
If I remember correctly, the last 3 Vitali fights ended with the opponents giving up. You’d have to imagine that if they did not give up, they’d eventually get knocked out in spectacular fashion.
by Polish Rifle on Oct 11, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could I humbly suggest that the SMW rankings are too heavily influenced by who is in the Super Six?
Andrade has only ever lost to Kessler and to Bute, if I recall correctly. I’d have him so far ahead of Ward and Dirrell that they would both have trouble seeing him with a really big pair of binoculars. In fact I’d personally have him at number 4, behind the only two he ever lost to, and Froch.
Your ten fighters, in my revised order;
Kessler
Bute
Froch
Andrade
Bika
Abraham
Dirrell
Ward
Taylor
Steiglitz
I’m sure there is someone else I’m forgetting. It’ll come to me.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Oct 11, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could I humbly suggest that the SMW rankings are too heavily influenced by who is in the Super Six?
Sure, but it isn’t, and I’ll explain myself.
Andrade has only ever lost to Kessler and to Bute, if I recall correctly. I’d have him so far ahead of Ward and Dirrell that they would both have trouble seeing him with a really big pair of binoculars. In fact I’d personally have him at number 4, behind the only two he ever lost to, and Froch.
Andrade lost every second of his fight to Kessler. He lost like 10 or 11 rounds to Bute. He was monstrously outclassed by both. I think Dirrell could put up a 12-round sweep on Andrade and Ward would likely blow him out as well. The biggest reason Bute-Andrade II is happening is Bute got tired. Andrade wasn’t competitive in either of those fights, but he did beat Stieglitz (which was a pretty good fight, too). I just don’t think he’s very good. Great fun to watch and tougher than a two dollar steak, yes, but not better than Bika, Abraham, Dirrell, Ward, or Taylor, because I don’t think he’d beat any of them, and the best shot he’d have is Taylor, because of Taylor’s habit of fighting dumb and getting tired, not always in that order. Andrade is like Froch without Froch’s, erm, “speed.”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by “I don’t think he’s very good,” I mean in relation to the first eight guys. He’s good because he’s tough, strong, relentless and seems basically impossible to knock out, but he’s a second-tier SMW and his skills are just not there. He gets a lot out of not much. He’s also one of my favorite fighters.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his durability and power (and he does have power) make up for his faults.
If he were fighting anyone in the division with the exception of the top 3, I’d have my money on him. Sooner or later, they all slow down, and he catches up with them.
I don’t think Ward, Dirrell, or Taylor have the power to discourage him at all. He’ll walk them down, and smash them when he’s in close.
He stood up to some of the most horrendous punishment I’ve seen against Kessler, and never looked worried in the slightest. If Kessler, who is for my money the hardest and best puncher in the division, can’t knock the man over in 12 rounds of trying, I don’t see how either of those three would even slow down his forward motion.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Oct 11, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are free to disagree with me, but Andrade is a horrible boxer, and I say that in the nicest way possible.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a fascinating fight. If I recall correctly, Kessler was so impressed with Andrade’s chin that he hugged him before the 12th round instead of just touching gloves.
by taco pal on Oct 11, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bika is a superior version of Andrade. He’s nearly as tough — Andrade won’t knock him out — but he’s a far better boxer (relatively speaking). And if we want to go by unavenged losses, Bika’s only dropped to Calzaghe and Bute, which beats Kessler and Bute. Plus, he actually gave Calzaghe a moderately stiff challenge.
by schraubd on Oct 11, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I don't see Ward, or Dirrell, or Taylor, faring any better aqgainst Kessler than Andrade did.
In fact, I think Kessler stops them all inside 9 rounds.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Oct 11, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logic Behind the Rankings
Am I correct that the rankings are based more on the potential of a fighter in a division than what the fighter has actually done in the division? David Haye hasn’t done anything in the heavyweight division. Paul Williams hasn’t done anything in the middleweight division (yet :)). etc. etc. These are more like p4p rankings but divisional…
by rantcatrat on Oct 11, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sort of — and Paul Williams has beaten Winky Wright at middleweight.
I just see no point in pretending I think that Williams isn’t as good as Felix Sturm, or that Haye isn’t as good as John Ruiz, because I think Williams would kick Sturm’s ass and Haye would smoke Ruiz. Resumes are overrated. Would anyone really pick Sturm, Khoren Gevor, Sylvester, etc., to beat Paul Williams? Why play make believe? It’s not like anyone gets anything out of my rankings, so I prefer to just be honest with how I feel than handicap for things that you might want out of sanctioning body rankings or the like (not that you actually GET that there, either).
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if these rankings are based on what you think a fighter can do
then how come Cotto isn’t #1 p4p, because I’m fairly certain Cotto could beat Margarito in a fair fight
by toodiesel on Oct 11, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would that make Cotto #1 pound-for-pound? I don’t think Cotto can beat Mayweather, and I was always 2000% certain that Margarito couldn’t beat Mayweather.
As for Cotto-Margarito, I have no comments on that fight other than it pisses me off that what was such a great fight is now forever tainted.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Resumes are overrated? in Paul Williams case regardless of who you think he would beat, he still hasn’t and those guys are more accomplished in the division than Paul is so until he shows me something, i don’t agree he should even be in the top 10, this isn’t fantasy boxing, let the outcome of matchups dictate rankings not what fighters you like most…to each his own
by JohnUtah on Oct 12, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t football or basketball or baseball, either, and not everyone fights who they should fight. Fighters get ducked, fighters duck other guys, and “resume” isn’t a black-and-white issue.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 16, 2009 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to try and put more explanation into my rankings "system"...
Look at it this way: There are tiers. In some classes, No. 4 and No. 10 aren’t separated by much. In others, they are.
Since I’m a giant nerd, I think of the World of Warcraft gear rankings, which are color-coded, and work sort of like this.
Orange = “Legendary”
Purple = “Epic”
Blue = “Rare”
Green = “Uncommon”
And then there’s white for Common and grey for Poor. Nobody in a top ten is less than a “green.”
In practice, this would make for something like this at 168, IMO:
Purple: Kessler, Bute
Blue: Froch, Abraham, Bika, Taylor, Dirrell
Green: Ward, Andrade, Stieglitz, and then some more guys like Balzsay, Inkin, etc.
At 140, you would have:
Orange: Pacquiao
Blue: Bradley, Hatton
Green: Maidana, Campbell, Holt, Khan, Urango, Alexander, Peterson
At 147:
Orange: Mayweather
Purple: Mosley, Cotto
Blue: Clottey, Berto
Green: Collazo, Quintana, Hlatshwayo, Aydin, Judah
Some greens are better than others, same for blues and purples, but the “tier” system works for this, and I think explains that just because I might have Froch #3 and Dirrell #7, I see them as equals, really, same for Ward and Andrade, though I think Ward beats Andrade.
As for resume: It does matter some to me, it’s just not THE end-all of the discussion, and often is very secondary. Really, SMW is amazingly interesting right now with the Super Six coming, because the rankings there will shake up a LOT, and it’ll happen because of fights between top ten fighters instead of fights where one guy doesn’t look so good against someone, so he might drop out. Allan Green is juuuust outside the top ten at 168, too, and usually I’d probably pick him over Stieglitz, but Green talks more than he proves much of anything, and Stieglitz beat Balzsay his last time out. They’re on the same level, but in that situation I give Stieglitz the slight nod over Green.
With a thing like PW at middleweight, I really have no doubts he beats everyone in that division besides Pavlik, and he could well beat Kelly. I just see Pavlik as the only serious challenge for Williams at 160, even though he’s only 2-0 there with one notable win. Resumes in boxing are always arguable, so it’s hard to really assign any specific value.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thinking of deleting my account here at SBNation after i read the words “World of Worldcraft”
have ye no shame
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Oct 11, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a recovering WoW addict, gotta say I agree with this post.
by keyz on Oct 11, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a pretty incredible game
but next time I’ll say Halo or whatever video games “cool” people waste their time playing.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
halo sucks, say something like Half-Life
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Oct 11, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I played that once
It’s OK for a console game.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what
half-life 1 & 2 are the ultimate PC games dawg. literally the two best games ever
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Oct 11, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I disagree. Anyway I played a 360 version of the game. And I don’t use a “PC,” I use a Mac, which is still a personal computer, but Microsoft has apparently trademarked the term “PC.”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and my point re: PC/Mac
is that Macs have limited game availability unless I wanted to run WINE or something, which I don’t
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 11, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FINALLY someone shows Hasegawa p4p love
He has the wins, the skills, power, slickness, the man is amazing. If he were Puerto Rican or Mexican everyone would be all over him.
by gunranger on Oct 11, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wlad over Vitali?
I know he went away for so long, and he’s getting up there, but I personally can’t rate Wlad over Vitali. It was Wlad who got KTFO’d by Corrie Sanders, and it was Vitali who destroyed the same fighter. If Mayweather, who hasn’t fought a welter since 2006, can be rated higher at welter than Mosley who layed out Margarito this year, then why shouldn’t Vitali be considered #1 at HW?
by FunnyBigHat on Oct 11, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How long ago were the Corrie Sanders fights?
Wlad is a completely different fighter now than he was even a few years ago, much less 7 years ago.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 11, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Picking a Nit.
I still don’t understand how Mosley gets ranked ahead of Cotto in these lists…
"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999
by ejruiz on Oct 12, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mosley demolished THE welterweight champ, to become THE welterweight champ. cotto beat some british dude and narrowly (he didn’t in my mind) beat a tough joshua clottey. that brings mosley above cotto
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Oct 12, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Margarito was not the welterweight champ, and neither is Mosley. The last welterweight champ was Mayweather.
I simply rank Mosley ahead of Cotto right now because if they rematched, I’d pick Shane close. Cotto would jump Shane with a win over Manny though.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 12, 2009 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d still pick Cotto again. I don’t think he’s exactly gone backwards since, and proved he still has all the heart in the Clottey fight. I’m not sure what Mosely would do all that different/suddenly be improving past Cotto at this stage of their respective careers.
And does the fact Mayweather retired mean there was no welterweight champ in the interim period, whatever happened in the division? Not sure about battleaxe’s reasoning since originally Cotto did beat Mosely…
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Oct 12, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And does the fact Mayweather retired mean there was no welterweight champ in the interim period, whatever happened in the division?
Yeah, there hasn’t been a true welterweight champ since Floyd retired. When Cotto and Margarito fought, Floyd was still active, technically. When Margarito fought Shane, they were Nos. 1 and 3 in the Ring rankings, and the Ring decided not to sanction a championship fight there, with Cotto at No. 2. The reasoning, many felt, was that it seemed likely Margarito and Cotto were going to rematch in the summer of 2009, which of course did not happen, but it was Arum’s plan. Again, without the Margarito mess, the welterweight division probably looks a lot different right now, even if he’d lost to Shane anyway.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 16, 2009 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand the confusion. I basically share it. Everyone keeps talking about how the brutal beating at the hands of “Tekko Tony” took the fight out of Cotto. But he didn’t look washed up to me against Clottey, who is without a doubt one of the best five welterweights in the world. He beat him much like he beat Shane Mosely, by keeping control of the pace early and staying elusive late. It’s possible that Shane could find the answer next time around, but if he fights Cotto the same way he will likely be beaten the same way. Shane isn’t getting any younger.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 12, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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