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Dirrell gets raw deal in Nottingham, Froch gets split decision win

Andre Dirrell clearly outboxed Carl Froch, but the Nottingham native was given some home cooking. Froch won the fight via split decision. (AP Photo)

Andre Dirrell clearly outboxed Carl Froch, but the Nottingham native was given some home cooking. Froch won the fight via split decision. (AP Photo)

I said a couple days ago that I hoped that the organizers of the Super Six tournament fights had scoured and been very thorough when assigning referees and judges to these high-profile, very important fights.

If we judge by Carl Froch's highly debatable decision win over Andre Dirrell in his hometown of Nottingham, there was not enough work put in.

Referee Hector Afu of Panama was horrendous the entire fight, giving Froch a ton of rope and taking a point from Dirrell. Bad Left Hook scored the bout 117-110 for Dirrell, who clearly outboxed and outquicked Froch with relative ease, tagging him with plenty of shots and not giving Froch anything to work with. Dirrell moved, frustrated, and landed counter shots almost at will. Frankly, I cannot see a way Froch won more than four rounds at maximum.

But the official scores read as follows: 114-113 Dirrell, and two 115-112 Froch cards. I just did not see it, and neither did almost anyone else in our live comments.

It was an odd fight to watch or describe, as it was dirtier than all hell, with a referee that could not keep control of the fight. I truly, truly feel Dirrell won the fight, and rather dominantly so. Froch rambled after the fight about Dirrell not being a warrior and standing and fighting, but Dirrell landed much better shots than he did, and frankly made him look like a second-rate fighter. Dirrell showed his entire range of skills, and though Andre was not clear of any wrongdoing tonight (he held a lot, and sometimes blatantly so), he was far less dirty out there than Froch.

Really, it's a shame, but did you not expect a hotly debated result like this? It was bound to happen. The question now is, does this taint the tournament for you?

There'll be more on this fight in the coming days, but for now all I can say is Andre Dirrell got a raw deal.

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I had it 115-112 Dirrell

But don’t make it seem Andre didn’t deserve to get a point off. He clinched incessantly and all of Froch’s antics came afte he had initiated the clinch.

And no it doesn’t taint it but at least I know Dirrell can compete with the elite where as I thought he was going to get ko’d

by gunranger on Oct 17, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't argue that the deduction was unfair

But that Froch deserved a deduction just as much, if not more.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Oct 17, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Froch deserved 2 deductions

boarding on a DQ. REPEATED hitting behind the head. Hitting after the bell… Pretty much anything other than low blows and headbutts Froch did.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Froch might have won the fight, but he didn’t win any fans in my house. Dirty, dirty tactics.

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW PROPERS TO DIRRELL

For being such a positive and stand up loser to this bullshit decision. He earned a fan in me and I think this bullshit loss may have taught him a few things to make him better in the long run. (Not the least of which is that he actually has a decent chin as most of times Froch actually did catch him, he was ready for it he honestly smiled through it. I don’t think Dirrell will win this tournament but I hope he makes the semi finals and later in his career he will develop into a fantastic boxer.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he just didnt contend with froch he schooled him.

by DRose87 on Oct 17, 2009 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what really sucks for dirrel is that now he’s gotta face abraham.

by DRose87 on Oct 17, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Whom I think he has a shot of beating

October 11th, 2009: The day Justin Forsett became loved by Seahawks fans forever.

by SSreporters on Oct 17, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A shot

but boy, that’s a tough assignment. In Europe, he’d be absolutely doomed, but in the U.S., he may have at least something of a shot.

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s in the U.S.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abraham is 10X the boxer Froch is

The final is gonna be Abraham vs Kessler.

That fight will again only make Dirrell better. He gets better every time he is tested. As the fight went on he got more and more confident against Froch. I thought he might KD him in the 10th.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's crazy is

Froch did nothing that RESEMBLED success, or victory, in this fight. He got hit with precision punching from Dirrell all night, spent the whole fight winging wild shots that virtually never landed, and fought dirty. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT THAT HE WON THE FIGHT. Good lord.

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not that much interested..

I’m not that much interested in watching the rest of the tournament now after watching froch come out victorious the way he did tonight.

by iLuis on Oct 17, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was really shocked and angry. I was sure that if the fight wnet the d, one card would go to Froch, but this was frankly ridiculous. It was a hair short of a crime.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Oct 17, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on all counts

The fight as a whole was a crime. Froch SHOULD have a points deducted. Dirrell’s holding was bad but not horribly excessive to require a point deduction…. The scoring was bad either way.

I had Dirrell winning 8 rounds to 4. I could have seen a draw even and the point deduction being the difference in a split decision win… But fucking Froch deserved 2 deductions bordering on a DQ.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Want to know something crazy?

Dan Rafael scored it for Froch as well. He had Froch up by one point, meaning that deduction against Dirrell was the difference maker.

"Gowin on fourth and 14 will punt it away. He hangs it very high, angling it for the near sideline...HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!!! HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!! Brian Milne might've fallen on it at the ten yard line! It's the New Orleans Saints' football! Brian Milne, the most unlikely hero of them all, falls on the fumble, the muff by Hakim! There is a God after all!" -- Jim Henderson

by hakimdropstheball on Oct 17, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rafael’s had plenty of questionable calls on scores. I mean, so have I, I’m not bashing or anywhere close to perfect, but basically NOBODY here thinks Froch won the fight.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's insane

And increasingly pompous. I find his “chats” almost unreadable at this point.

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly don’t care about the tournament much at all now. I’ve been defending boxing so hard and for so long to the MMA crowd and saying “just wait for the super six…just wait for it…it’s going to be awesome” but instead it’s all the same old bullshit that caused people to float away from boxing to begin with. I still love the sport…but when these kind of unique and potentially sport changing events are tainted by the same old bullshit I have to stop defending it as hard as I have.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Then leave because I’m sick of people complaining about decisions, that can be explained, and then say shit like " oh I’m done with boxing." There are just as many poor decisions in MMA or K-1.

by gunranger on Oct 17, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but how do you explain this decision? What rounds could Froch POSSIBLY have won to win the fight, much less by 115-112 on two cards?

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where did I say I was done with boxing? I said I have to stop defending this as hard as I have.

There is no explaining this decision.

And I legitimately can not, for the life of me, remember an MMA fight that I thought someone won by such a clear margin that went the other way.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 17, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or...

an MMA fight with such a clearly biased ref.

I’m sorry but when it comes to the “robbery” and “home cooking” aspects of things there is no discussion.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 17, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brent AGREEEDDDDD

On the biased Ref. That guy is a fucking POS homecooking motherfucker. There are alot of things that I wish upon fuckers like him that make me look like a psychopath so I won’t say them in the presence of polite company. (witnesses)

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair I probably should bring up Easton/Beebe as an MMA fight with an awful judging result. But this is boxing at the highest level, that was MMA on a regional level. But it really isn’t an MMA vs. Boxing thing. it’s right v. wrong

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 18, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But it really isn’t an MMA vs. Boxing thing. it’s right v. wrong

Well put.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Oct 18, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Oct 17, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

even with this decision it doesnt really affect the tourney as dirrell if he is so dominant he can beat his next opponents and still advance and get a rematch

by Silverobot on Oct 17, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell has Arthur and Ward left. I really think he can beat Abraham and think he will outclass Ward.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I see Ward as Andre Dirrell Lite.

With Abraham who the heck knows? His style is so unique and his defense doesn’t rely on great reflexes and the speed won’t bother him as much. That said, can he get Dirrell in a position to hurt him? Because Dirrell will surely be busier than Arthur, almost by default.

by kp the ghost on Oct 17, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rafael said in chat that Jermain has a severe concussion with short term memory loss, and is in hospital in Germany for several days as a precaution. Uh oh.

by kp the ghost on Oct 17, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah the Showtime crew said the same after Froch-Dirrell. Good luck, Jermain.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Final is gonna be

Abraham vs Kessler

Assuming Kessler doesn’t get placed along side of and eliminate Abraham in the semi-final.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think Arthur is going to have problems with a pressure guy like Froch, because he doesn’t move the way Dirrell does. But Abraham is goddamn strong.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 18, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Froch

Will never land a clean shot on Arthur to hurt him. Abraham has the best blocking defense outside of Winky Wright of any fighter above 147 (Clottey is about even with Arthur). The only difference between Winky and Arthur is the whole – offense, speed and power kinda thing. Winky has none of the above and Abraham while maintaining most of the Winky defense somehow has all of them.

Arthur and Kessler will have 1 hell of a battle for best European fighter today.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Abe might have killed him with that shot. Talk about one-punch knockouts.

Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion

by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 18, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Froch gets the decision for being the most aggressive and the most positive, which is what boxing should be about. Dirrell looked like a fine amateur boxer but you won’t get away with it at this level.

Froch v Kessler will be much better and Dirrell will do the same thing against Abraham he did against Froch and will end up with the same decision

by redmanshouts on Oct 17, 2009 11:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones Jr., Pernell Whitaker, Bernard Hopkins...

all would like to discuss boxing with you

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Froch gets the decision for being the most aggressive and the most positive

Which led to him getting hit with more good shots. Way more than he landed. He really didn’t do much of anything at all besides be “positive.”

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Positive?

What does that even mean? His “aggression” was completely reckless, and was mostly frustration due to the fact he couldn’t find Dirrell, who was peppering him with shots. Kessler will annihilate Froch. He’s a decent fighter, but far from special.

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did Froch even land more than a handful of meaningful shots in the fight. I can think of a couple, that’s it. How is that “positive”?

by kp the ghost on Oct 17, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very Bad

The result was simply a robbery. I don’t see a legitimate argument that Froch drew or won even if you exclude the point deduction issue. Personally I tend to score favorably towards the fighter moving forward, but you still have to do something. Froch didn’t- he was totally ineffective, did not demonstrate ring generalship, did not land clean punches, did not defend himself well.

This definitely hurts the tournament for me. A ton of interesting match-ups remain, but what good is the tournament format if the results are not reliable? The semi-finals don’t mean much if bogus decisions determine who makes it. The only positive is how much I’m going to enjoy watching Froch get KTFO by Kessler and then again by Abraham.

I do still think Dirrell has a good shot at the semis.

by drivlikejehu on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right on all accounts

Can’t wait to see Froch fight Abraham. He’s going to get plastered.

by The Boxer Rebellion on Oct 17, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me say one other thing: I really like Carl Froch as a fighter. He’s exciting, he’s aggressive, and he’s tougher than leather. But he lost this fight pretty clearly, IMO.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell was absolutely robbed.....l

……and hadn’t he been playing to the ref, Dirrell could have come close to shutting him out in my eyes. Froch got a huge gift…and his facial expression after the decision was announced.

That said…..I’m still pretty pumped about the rest of the SS playing out.

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

meant to say

His facial expression

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rafael chat

He’s got a post-fight chat going on and he’s getting a bit snippy with the folks who are saying Dirrell won the fight:

Wil (SC)

Dan, put your tv on mute, rewatch and rescore that fight.

Dan Rafael (10:47 PM)

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I had Froch winning by one point and I stand by it. I don’t need to (or want to) rewatch the fight. You go rewatch it and let me know how it turned out.
efrain (biola ca)

dirrell would beat him if they fight agian

Dan Rafael (10:49 PM)

If you had wings you’d be a bird. If, if, if… Whatever.

by Fooch on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not trying to bash Dan, but he gets snippy with anyone who dares disagree with him anymore.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed this too

I really like, and respect his work, but he gets really snippy lately. His comments must be a bunch of people calling him a jackass and he posts the least offensive ones

by cardscott5 on Oct 17, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s probable. ESPN boards are generally a cesspool.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 17, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell robbed

Can’t stand to see decisions like this. I was getting sick of HBO putting on fights that were not competitive, and was excited about showtime putting on the super six. The Froch v. Dirrell decision was horrible, and none of the showtime commentators had the balls to step up and say something about. As much as Max Kellerman and Larry Merchant annoy me, they would have had the balls to call it like it is.

by sj29 on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

said it all...

sorry…. having technical issues.

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I had it 116-111 Dirrell

But I can see how one could score it for Froch. I think Dirrell clearly outworked him and out classed him. With that said, I gave the first 2 rounds Froch. If you gave Froch any of the middle rounds like SC did, then that’s how you get 115-112. It’s not close to right, but I don’t think it’s the worst robbery evar!~!~! or anything like that

by cardscott5 on Oct 17, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

U and me Dude

I had Froch up 2-1 after 1 and had Dirrell up 3-2 after 2 and it maintained that kinda swing from there. Froch won 1 for every 2 Dirrell rounds.

At least it wasn’t as bad as Oscar vs Sturm. Though it was close

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...what would happen if Jermaine Taylor cant continue in the tourney....?

Would we see Allan Green? Also the replay is coming up on SHO2 for those who gave Froch any more than 3 rounds……

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would assume Green yes. He was talked about earlier and Dibella would get another one of his guys in there.

by gunranger on Oct 17, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was closer than some folks here have it

Dirrell won 8 to 4 minus 1. That’s how it went. Dirrell was coming into this fight 20 punches in the hole and it showed. It was a homebrew win, but not the one-sided robbery some guys are claiming.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Oct 17, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i disagree....but fair enough.

I just feel Direll dominated with speed and counter-punching…..except for the times when he was arguing with the ref and got caught clean.

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or when he was hugging

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Oct 17, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

come on now....he was just showing Froch some love....

…..but the hugging was a bit bizarre……he didn’t need to pull crazy shit like that. He was doing just fine without it.

Larry Merchant IS God...

by El_Mas_Chingon on Oct 17, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When he wasn't hugging

He was being held behind the head and dirty boxed in a way that brings me back to Ali – Foreman… or he was being straight clubbed in the back of the head.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I scored 8-4 also BUT AND ITS A LARGE BUT

Froch should have been docked at least twice

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dirty Fighting

I feel like Direll got taken out of his mental game by the dirty fighting of Froch. Direll trying to respond in kind to Froch’s roughhousing took a toll on the flow of the fight. TBH, I Direll over Froch 115 to 111, but holding Froch and getting hit in his clinch didn’t do Direll any favors.

Froch hit twice on the break, and threw a number of rabbit punches (without Direll holding him), and threw Direll to the floor. How many warnings do you get before the ref takes a point away?

by The Lethal Haze on Oct 17, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell also went downstairs in the basement several times, to be fair.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Oct 18, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say Direll was innocent

just that Froch initiated the dirty fighting and Direll responded in kind…

by The Lethal Haze on Oct 18, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taking out his game? It’s funny because I saw the opposite. He was more aggressive and better after all the dirty fighting. He should have fought like that all night. I was getting frustrated giving him rounds where he would land the better combos but then clinch when he wasn’t hurt or taking punches. I can only imagine how frustrating it can be to be there live.

by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the end of the fight

Direll let his hands go, as a result of the frustration he was feeling. But in the middle rounds, IMO he let his frustration get the best of him and tried to get even by getting dirty. He stopped moving around the ring in order to foul Froch… and Froch was able to land in the middle rounds mostly do to that fact.

By the end of the match he definitely let his hands go… which is what he should have done from the beginning, instead of hugging Froch. IMO, if Froch’s fouls went unanswered Froch would have had at least 1 point taken from him at some point, if the ref wasn’t paid off.

by The Lethal Haze on Oct 18, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I found myself really hoping at some point Dirrell would snap

Hit Froch in the balls then crush his nose with a headbutt and lose a DQ cause I smelled home cooking about 6 rounds out. I knew at that point he would lose any decision that wasn’t a shutout or knockout

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Man Up

While boxing is about exuding skill it’s also about actually fighting the other guy and Dirrell didn’t want to do it.

The picture shown of Dirrell looking like he’s about to punch hides the fact that he was away on his toes for most of the fight and ran for most of it.

He complained about getting hit on the back of the head but he was legitimately ducking face to the floor and doing all he could to avoid fighting, including constantly clinching to the point Froch threw him on the floor. Some may call it tactics but he was trying to stink the place out and steal a win, and to be honest that’s frowned upon in Europe and the UK big time.

Froch wasn’t happy about the win but said after that he didn’t feel like he’d had a fight and would be taking it out on his sparring partner on Monday (poor guy!).

Dirrell will have to show a lot more than he did to realistically win this tournament, he had flashes where he looked great but showed no aggression whatsoever and was virtually chased around the ring.

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell landed way more punches, but he didn’t want to fight? Interesting. Perhaps you could explain where in the unified scoring system “trying to stink” outweighs clean punching and defense.

Look, I understand there are Froch fans looking for excuses. But just be glad your guy got a gift and start worrying about how badly Kessler and Abraham are going to batter him. Well, assuming he is still healthy enough to fight Abraham after Kessler has his way with “the Cobra.”

by drivlikejehu on Oct 18, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not an excuse especially because I thought Dirrell won. He did everything he could to make this fight ugly and the judges didn’t reward him for it. It’s like Malignaggi-Diaz. People are going to spout robbery but there clearly is a case for Diaz winning but people are so ignorant they don’t want to hear.

And yes I know Van Hoy’s score was atrocious but it wasn’t the case in this fight.

by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I thought Malignaggi won that too.

by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I scored it for Diaz. When I score a fight, I strongly favor the aggressor, probably too much. But moving forward alone is just not enough to win a fight. Kotelnik moved forward a lot against Khan- do you agree Kotelnik could reasonably be said to win that fight?

There is a ring, and boxers are allowed to move around it. It is not a competition to see who moves forward more often. EFFECTIVE aggression is to be rewarded. Froch was not effective, as a matter of fact, not opinion.

by drivlikejehu on Oct 18, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

115-112 Dirrell

I’m normally a sucker for aggressive, move-forward fighters, but Dirrell just landed far more clean shots, and most of the harder shots, throughout the fight, despite the dancing and the holding.

I had rounds 2-5, 8, 11 and 12 for Dirrell, with round 10 a 9-9 round (the round with the point deduction) and the other four for Froch.

Thinking back, none of the rounds I gave to Dirrell were really that close. You’d have to give the 10th to Froch (as a 10-8 because of the deduction) to even begin to form a scenario where he wins, and he just didn’t win that round.

by Verklemptomaniac on Oct 18, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another thought

Maybe they gave Froch points for the takedown? It was a pretty sweet hiptoss.

by Verklemptomaniac on Oct 18, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dirrell

Are you seriously telling me those guys look like they had a fight, Carl hit Dirrell harder and chased him around the ring. Dirrell hit Carl more often but apart from a few half decent shots most were just for show.

The fight was not a fight. This was chess, Dirrell looked ok landing a couple of harder shot but couldn’t wait to run away or clinch and his tactics are considered a no no in Europe.

Froch was likely awarded punches in the clinch because Dirrell initiated the clinch and this is where he picked up points.

I think Dirrell has got a case but at the end of the day for all his talk he didn’t come to fight and was there to steal a win, it was an awfully boring fight to watch with the younger quicker guy only really throwing punches because it gave him an opening to run away.

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 12:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

PURRRRTY MUCH

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest I’m a bit split on the decision but at the end of the day I was talking to a mate while the fight was happening and we both agreed that Dirrell was trying to stink up a win.

Dirrell didn’t show any signs of a real champion and knew if he got caught he was going down so he ran.

I think Dirrell will be found out, I think he knows he’s chinny too and that’s going to come out in the tournament.

In fairness to Froch, he had to sprint after Dirrell in the third to hit him and when he did he hurt Dirrell with a pretty average shot, it looks bad in slow motion because Dirrell is clearly actually running away unhurt.

Dirrell complained and whinged about the roughness, but at the end of the day he way initiating clinches when he hadn’t even been hit and ducking face to the floor, that’s not boxing either. The referee let the cliching go on too long and should have been in a lot earlier than he was, Dirrell in my opinion was worried about getting hurt and didn’t bring a great deal to the fight.

In Dirrells favour he looked sharper and quicker than Carl and would have won this fight in the USA where fights are just as biased in favour of the home fighter. I think if Dirrell had shown more confidence in his ability he could easily won the fight but at the end of the day he was there to hit and run away.

I don’t think Dirrell is going to do much in this tournament if he doesn’t show a willingness to fight, it makes for poor viewing and will not endear him to fight fans. The purists may say he won on stats but at the end of the day for all his talk of knocking out the WBC champion he didn’t come to fight.

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just clear this up for me- if a fighter came forward and landed 0 punches, and the other fighter went backwards and landed 100 punches, who would you score the round for? And how does that conform to the four scoring categories?

by drivlikejehu on Oct 18, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL I think he’s scoring it for Froch 0 to 100

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Compubox stats for that fight would be very telling

and illustrate just how frustrated Froch’s offense was.

by The Lethal Haze on Oct 18, 2009 1:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

out of interest?

Would anyone seriously pay money to watch Dirrell fight again? with a big question mark over the word fight.

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 1:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yes

because I understand what BOXING is. Watch Griffin vs Bonner again if you want some ugly slugfest

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 18, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh come on. For every great combo and dodge he clinched incessantly. He made me angry

by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also made Froch angry, and thus Froch fought like crap. I think that’s what he was going for. For every great combo and dodge that Froch had… wait, Froch never really had any great combos and got hit a lot.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 18, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

definitely

I was impressed by his technique, and if the ref hadn’t been completely incompetent and utterly biased, I would have really enjoyed the fight and the clash of styles. I find Dirrell more interesting than Froch, actually, who at times looked like Frankenstein’s monster, lumbering about and punching air. But then again, I also enjoyed Calzaghe’s style, so maybe I’m in somewhat of the minority in appreciating technique over “pressure.” Walking forward alone just doesn’t do it for me.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Oct 18, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally I had Dirrell winning by at least 10 seconds

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 1:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Understanding boxing

I personal thought it involved fighting each other but apparently I am mistaken, I bow to your superior knowledge.

I do hope the rest of the PPV public share your purist opinions and understand of boxing, maybe you could campaign for bigger rings and a finish line too but at the moment I think the reason boxing is struggling is because it’s not entertaining.

Call me old fashioned but I like watching fighters that hit each other and don’t think lateral movement means doing laps of the ring.

by superdonyoungy on Oct 18, 2009 2:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dude

A boxing match doesn’t necessarily have to be a slug fest/tear up to be entertaining. Not everyone can say, I’m going to stand here and trade punches. You’re allowed to stay out of range, come in and use your footwork/head movement/handspeed to get off clean punches, and get out again. Thats maybe why it has the nickname ‘the sweet science’ becuase its maybe not just about watching fighters fight/hit each other?

I do see your point that doing laps of the ring is not really that entertaining, but it depends on who you’re pulling for. I didn’t think it was that exciting but then I thought it was great when Amir Khan potshotted his way through against Kotelnik, and I was pulling for Froch, so of course I wanted him to stop getting away and Froch to catch him up.

By the way, I don’t know that boxing really is that struggling from the Mayweather numbers and the way everyone thought that was such a great performance, but thats just an old gripe of mine.

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)

by BrianBrock on Oct 18, 2009 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Use the reply feature, it’ll make the conversations easier to follow. Anyway, you’re old fashioned, and boxing is no less entertaining than it ever was. People have these rosy memories of a sport that really hasn’t changed all that much over the last 100 years, other than athletes and equipment have gotten better.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 18, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lessoned Learned from Tonight

First of all, apparently the rabbit punch is legal in Europe. In both fights the Europeans seemed to always get off a punch to the back of the head in every clinch. It was especially bad during the Froch fight. One round he was getting held and just completely lined up a rabbit punch, hit Dirrell, lined him up again and just nailed him. After this absolutely egregious breach of the rules, the ref finally decides to warn Froch. At this point Froch should have been deducted a point at best, and if that fight was some sort of neutral ground maybe a DQ (at that point it was getting ridiculous). Much like most of the people here I had the fight Dirrell alot to Froch not so much. I think I had 7-4 Dirrell with Dirrell winning the round where the point was deducted. That fight was ridiculous in how it was scored but apparently in England, Froch’s chin counts as defense and Dirrell’s holding is bullshit because no one in England has ever done that ever (there is not even only one of them). Also I think Taylor had a fairly close fight but he is really starting to enter the realm of glass jaw, most cause I don’t think many fighters have that kind of ridiculous KO power in the 12th. What did most people have that fight because I had it tied going into the final and deciding round. Anyways, I really hope that the europe advantage doesn’t end up screwing someone out of the tourney.

by waldo47 on Oct 18, 2009 4:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I had Abraham up fairly big. I’ll go to my grave saying Jermain landed about three significant punches in that entire fight.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 18, 2009 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had AA up 4

by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had Abraham up 8-3

And he was winning the 12th too.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Oct 18, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AA Style

From my view, when AA had his hands up for at least 2/3rd’s of every round was not by his style. Jermain made AA throw up the guard so that he could go to the body, which he did but the ref did not allow it (will someone please tell these refs that the belt is legal…). Basically you needed to catch the other person fairly clean for the portion of the round that you are fighting and it was half and half for that (most of the punches were wide hooks that were getting blocked, not surprisingly it was a straight right that got to Jermain). Anyways that was my rationale for the scoring.

by waldo47 on Oct 18, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's always how Abraham fights

He’s not particularly versatile. He stuck to his script. Other than maybe the Ikeke fight, I can’t remember seeing an Abraham fight where he didn’t fight that exact way.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Oct 18, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Brick said, that’s Abraham every fight. Same guy.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 18, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok but thats how I score fights

I try really really hard to not overweight the last part of each round. In my view, if you are going to fight in that style, you have to not only win the last part of the round but essentially make up for not doing anything previously in the round. Its just my point of view that you should get slightly punished if you are doing your best punching bag impression.

by waldo47 on Oct 18, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if the other guy isn’t landing any punches for all his work why should you be held negatively accountable for great defense? Should Floyd Mayweather lose every round for being defensive?

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Floyd counters, it’s defense with a purpose of creating openings, completely different from AA simply covering up. Great defense? What part of leaving the ribs open and leaving your left hand low when its time for offense is good defense?

by waldo47 on Oct 19, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Punching bags are soft everywhere. Abraham’s guard isn’t. Defense is part of scoring boxing too. But people score differently and I’m not saying you’re wrong or telling you what to do.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 19, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason i said punching bags is because heavy bags don’t really move all that much. Defensive is fine if there is countering behind it, or if its obvious the guy is toying with the opponent. The thing with AA is that he simply stands there defends his head, and dares his opponent to hit him low. Whenever a shot hits him low he whines to the ref, then open himself up for the last third of the round. If that what wins a round for you, then thats fine, it just not for me.

by waldo47 on Oct 19, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s also making guys exhaust themselves trying to break his guard, and like a cat pawing at a window, they never seem to get it. I think Abraham is fairly clever in his style, but I can certainly see how it’s not appealing to someone.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Oct 19, 2009 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure how true that would be vs. top level competition. JT honestly looked pretty good and not drained at all, just seemed that he got caught. And if JT is going to look fresh in the 12th, then I think pretty much all of the other fighters are not going to tire themselves out.

by waldo47 on Oct 19, 2009 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you had it tied?

I was big on some JT, I really hoped he would do well, but I did not think it was close going into 12.

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)

by BrianBrock on Oct 18, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I had it tied, but there were a bunch of close rounds that really depended on what type of boxing you see as visually appealing. But in the beginning of the fight JT put a good amount of rounds in the bank. After 4 rounds I had 3-1 Taylor where it seemed that showtime had it 4-0 Taylor. So I don’t think having 4-2-1 AA the rounds after that is completely unreasonable.

by waldo47 on Oct 18, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fucking Robbery

Dirrell got Fucking robbed plin and simple. Even if for some reason you gave Froch 5 rounds for any reason at all, Dirrell won the other 7 rounds. Fucking unbelievable… No other way to say it.

by Haans Bishop on Oct 18, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Froch rabbit punches worse than Sam Peters, and that’s saying something. I’m rather dumbfounded that most of his UK fans ignore this. But then again, I shouldn’t be. In the parallel universe across the pond, Dirrell should have been massively penalized for clinching, but when Hatton and Calzaghe did it, such clinching never happened.

I apologize in advance to the more thoughtful fans from the UK. I know there are many of you, but the post-fight reaction from Froch supporters around the web has me a bit riled.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Oct 18, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nothing's worse than Sam Peter

He literally pushes the guy’s head down, then chops downward to the base of the skull. There was a lot of dirty rabbit punching going on there, but with Peter, I’m literally afraid he’ll paralyze someone with that move.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Oct 19, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

Anyone else notice how much worse James Toney’s slur and speech became after the two rabbit-punch-filled Peter fights? Punching behind the head is no joke, and it shouldn’t be scoffed at or ignored.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Oct 19, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey

Stop with the ‘across the pond’ thing.

I’m British, I had it wide for Dirrell, and I’ve made my views on the fight and Froch clear here (as well as on this site!!);
http://www.cueclubinternational.com/viewtopic.php?forum=29&topic=31265

Your xenophobia (All Brits think clinching is wrong, and are hypocritical as they condone Calzaghe/Hatton for doing it) isn’t much different to me saying something like “All black people think Dirrell won”, or “All Americans are stupid”. When making generalizations, where do you draw the line? If one is ok to say, does that imply the other is too?

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Oct 20, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'll now apologize for having responded to the first paragraph of your post without reading the second one...

I still think making generalizations is a bit of a low-end way to argue, though….

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Oct 20, 2009 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had the same score

117-110 for Dirrell, I just couldn’t understand why the announcers were saying that the rounds were close because they didn’t seem that way to me. You could tell Gus Johnson felt the same way and it seemed like he was almost trying to cheer Dirrell to convince Al and Antonio that Dirrell was running away with it. I usually dislike it when an announcer does it, like Lampley does with Cotto, but I shared his frustration.

by MatM on Oct 19, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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