Bad Left Hook Divisional Rankings Update
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 7:54 AM EDT
in Rankings
51 comments
Now that everything's in one place, it'll be easier to do quick and dirty updates to the BLH boxing rankings, and I figure after most weekends we'll have something to change here or there. This could become a bit of a Sunday tradition.
Divisions Affected: Cruiserweight, Super Middleweight, Featherweight, Flyweight
Cruiserweight: Yoan Pablo Hernandez (20-1, 11 KO) moves in to the No. 10 spot, where Enad Licina had been. Hernandez beat Licina by a pretty wide decision in Berlin on the Abraham-Taylor undercard, and only has the one loss on his sheet, a stoppage against powerful Wayne Braithwaite in 2008. At 6'4", the Cuban Hernandez could wreak havoc on the division if he kicks his career into a new gear.
Super Middleweight: The two big fights obviously change some things at 168. With the Froch-Dirrell fight a heated debate for the foreseeable future, this is as good a time as any to explain how something like this can affect the rankings. Going in, I had Froch at No. 3 and Dirrell at No. 7. I, personally, feel Dirrell won the fight convincingly. The ringside judges, who matter, did not. Unless it's a case like Casamayor-Santa Cruz or Lewis-Holyfield I, though, I don't see a reason to "punish" the winner. Froch does drop to No. 4, but that's a combination of his skin of the teeth win and Arthur Abraham's beatdown of Jermain Taylor just pushing him up from 4 to 3.
Instead of "punishing" Froch, I simply don't punish Dirrell, who proved to be at least as good as I already thought he was, if not a bit better. Despite the first L on his record as a professional, Dirrell actually moves up from 7 to 6.
And then there's Jermain Taylor. He's out of the top ten, slipping from No. 6 to around No. 13 or so if I went that far. This division is loaded with good, competitive fighters, most of which I think have the power to knock him out. His punch resistance is going, I believe, and his natural gifts just aren't enough to carry him. In moves Allan Green to the No. 10 spot; and yes, I would pick Green over Taylor every day and twice on Sunday at this point. Karoly Balzsay and Denis Inkin are also ahead of Taylor in my mind.
Featherweight: Mario Santiago drops a spot for an eight-round SD in Texas over journeyman Morris Chule (11-8-2, 8 KO). What's most odd about that fight is that Chule had never fought in America before. The Kenyan has fought in his home country, and in the Philippines, Uganda, Hungary, Russia, and Kazakhstan, but never in America. Apparently the handlers for Santiago felt this is the sort of talent you can only fly in -- surely there's nobody as qualified knocking around in Texas, right? Anyway, the one spot drop isn't a big deal; I think there's plenty of good reasons to re-evaluate guys from fight to fight and not just leave them in one spot in a rankings chart because that's where they were before, and it's getting further and further removed from Santiago's spirited draw with Steven Luevano. Santiago did just sign a three-year deal with Top Rank, though, so hopefully his career actually starts moving again. He's stagnating badly.
Flyweight: Raul Martinez stays in the rankings and nobody moves, but it's worth noting that Martinez fought this weekend at just under the bantamweight limit. It was more or less a stay busy/rebound fight, so we'll see what his intentions are. For now, he stays here.
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Froch dropping is nonsense.
He didn’t lose to Dirrel, and he knocked out Taylor. It doesn’t matter he was losing on cards he won by ko. Abraham has one fight at 168 versus the guy Froch already beat. Wins are only what matters when it comes to any ranking not named p4p.
Dirrell, Pascal, Taylor > just Taylor
by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t lose to Dirrel
And yet I think he deserved to.
and he knocked out Taylor.
So did Abraham.
It doesn’t matter he was losing on cards he won by ko.
It KINDA matters that he would have lost without the KO. Abraham would not have.
Abraham has one fight at 168 versus the guy Froch already beat.
And he beat him easier than did Froch.
Wins are only what matters when it comes to any ranking not named p4p.
A lot of wins in boxing shouldn’t have been. This isn’t win-loss standings.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Bute should have lost to Andrade too right?
And he beat Taylor first, that’s what matters. He did it unequivocally as well. Also the press row in the Dirrell fight, had two wins for Froch by 1 and a draw. To change his ranking because YOU thought he lost, when he didn’t, is absurd. And I thought Dirrell won as well.
A lot of wins in boxing shouldn’t have been. This isn’t win-loss standings.
Then it’s all supposition? What is the ranking for if it isn’t based on wins and losses?
by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have trouble with reading comprehension?
He said he moved Abraham up, not moved Froch down. Abraham beat Taylor much more convincingly than did Froch, and Froch didn’t look particularly great in either of his last two fights. It’s not like he moved him behind Bika or something.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Bute should have lost to Andrade too right?
No? Bute beat the count. He was up by eight. I know people have exaggerated that to death, but the fact is Bute beat the count. He was up by eight on any regular count, and by IBF rules all he had to do was get up. The referee was awful in handling the situation, and a rematch happening is certainly understandable, but no I don’t think Andrade “should have” beaten Bute, really. Bute outclassed him badly for 11 rounds and then was not put away. Taylor being up on Froch didn’t matter because the fight was actually — and rightly — stopped.
And he beat Taylor first, that’s what matters.
Why is that what matters?
Also the press row in the Dirrell fight
The press row in the Dirrell fight was filled with UK boxing writers, and UK boxing media are notoriously biased. They look for essentially any excuse for their guy to be winning.
To change his ranking because YOU thought he lost, when he didn’t, is absurd.
They’re MY rankings. Why would I not reflect MY feelings? I don’t have Dirrell ranked ahead of Froch, and I explained this quite clearly, frankly, so you’re harping on something that wouldn’t happen in YOUR rankings, which these are not.
Do you really think win-loss record is how boxers should be ranked? Because frankly I think that’s madness, and the sort of thinking that allows Floyd Mayweather to go, “Hey, Shane Mosley’s lost five fights, why should I fight him?”
I explained this anyhow: Froch didn’t move down so much as Abraham moved up. I have Froch ranked fourth in one of the best weight classes in the sport, maybe the best. I really like Carl Froch as a fighter; always exciting. But I feel he clearly lost to Dirrell and escaped against Jermain Taylor by the skin of his teeth, and it’s not like Taylor has exactly been impressive since, jeez, 2006. He’s a great lot of fun to watch fight and a definite overachiever. I have no problem with Carl Froch. I do not think he’s as good as Abraham.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and before the next reply
Taylor being up on Froch didn’t matter because the fight was actually — and rightly — stopped.
I worded this poorly — I only mean “didn’t matter” in comparison to the Bute-Andrade fight, not in comparison to the Abraham-Taylor fight. Abraham had Taylor’s number pretty much all night. Froch absolutely did not.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said he moved Abraham up, not moved Froch down. Abraham beat Taylor much more convincingly than did Froch, and Froch didn’t look particularly great in either of his last two fights. It’s not like he moved him behind Bika or something.
His reasoning is absurd though. You don’t lose you rank for winning. One fight at SMW does not erase Froch’s resume there.
Do you really think win-loss record is how boxers should be ranked? Because frankly I think that’s madness, and the sort of thinking that allows Floyd Mayweather to go, "Hey, Shane Mosley’s lost five fights, why should I fight him?"
Wins-losses in THEIR WEIGHT CLASS matters. Which is also why, as much as Floyd fan I am, he shouldn’t be #1 in your rankings either over Mosley who beat the #1.
I explained this anyhow: Froch didn’t move down so much as Abraham moved up. I have Froch ranked fourth in one of the best weight classes in the sport, maybe the best. I really like Carl Froch as a fighter; always exciting. But I feel he clearly lost to Dirrell and escaped against Jermain Taylor by the skin of his teeth, and it’s not like Taylor has exactly been impressive since, jeez, 2006. He’s a great lot of fun to watch fight and a definite overachiever. I have no problem with Carl Froch. I do not think he’s as good as Abraham.
Semantics; Froch going down to 4th is based on performance as you had said. If he beat Dirrell convincingly would you have still moved AA up? You say Taylor hasn’t been impressive yet a win over him by Abraham is good enough to jump Froch? And it was a close fight too as I believe two judges had AA only up 2 and 1 four.
The press row in the Dirrell fight was filled with UK boxing writers, and UK boxing media are notoriously biased. They look for essentially any excuse for their guy to be winning.
The british commentators actually gave Direll the win so not all are biased.
by gunranger on Oct 18, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
comedy back and forth...and circular
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Oct 18, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Scott’s rankings are highly subjective – all rankings are, especially those compiled by just one person
2. The rankings are based on various criteria, and not necessarily tied down to recent record alone. Win-loss records in a weight-class are not the be-all-and-end-all
3. Fighters can move up in defeat and down in victory. Even if Froch was demoted solely on performance (note: he wasn’t), then that is perfectly reasonable. He showed in the fight that he perhaps doesn’t possess the skills to beat someone with speed and technical ability if they apply it intelligently
by thirdslip on Oct 18, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he beat Dirrell convincingly would you have still moved AA up?
No.
You say Taylor hasn’t been impressive yet a win over him by Abraham is good enough to jump Froch?
A fine cherry-pick. Abraham beat Taylor easier than Froch did. Also it DOES MATTER (to me, in my rankings) that Froch should have lost to Dirrell, IMO. These are all behind the fact that I think Abraham is a better fighter than Froch.
My rankings are my rankings, and are of course completely subjective. They are not your rankings. I am not going to be more “standard” with my rankings simply because that is the way most people do it. “Well we have X ranked here, so X stays here until he loses.” I re-evaluate after every fight because boxing rankings, to me, are not a black-and-white thing. If you want to make your own rankings, feel free. This isn’t football or whatever where everyone plays. It’s similar to college football, and I think the way the pollsters have done things in the past was absurd, but they’ve become more “reactionary,” which is the right thing to do in their situation, IMO, and it’s the way I think with boxing, too. Alabama recently jumped to #2 over Texas, who had been #2 all season. Why? Because they’ve been more impressive. I think Abraham is more impressive than Froch right now. That could change without either of them losing a fight. That’s just the way it is.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I had not seen it, but Alabama went to #1 today in the AP poll, jumping Florida. Florida had a hell of a tough time yesterday with Arkansas, but won. Alabama has been more impressive. Without either Florida or Texas losing, Alabama has jumped both.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UT is fucking awesome…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Oct 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alabama would smoke ’em.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mess With the Bull, You’ll Get the Horns
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Oct 18, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After seeing what Oklahoma’s D did to Texas yesterday I just can’t see Texas beating Bama. But it’d be a good game since Alabama doesn’t have the most amazing offense. Stifling D, though.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 18, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm an SEC hater from PAC-10 country
and Alabama is the best team in the country. Florida I don’t know if they are in the top 5 right now. They cruise through each season never playing a tough out of conference game. That needs to end if they wanna keep playing for titles.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Florida also plays in a very tough conference and then when they do play for titles tend to beat the crap out of who they play. Florida is clearly top five. Alabama, Florida, Texas, Boise State and take your pick: Cincinnati, Iowa, Oregon or USC. Oregon is really underrated considering their one loss was on the road to Boise. TCU is really good too. Actually USC ranking 7 in the BCS standings today is about right; they’re freakish talented as always but not quite one of those USC teams, I think.
I’m a Big Ten guy in Big Ten country but realize the weakness of the Big Ten.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Big Ten can’t count…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Oct 19, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Big Eleven” would sound stupid.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Florida just lost their rank for winning in mediocre fashion
and they were #1. Winning poorly while others win impressively against the same competition is certainly reason to get passed in rankings
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will you drop Froch
When Abraham leaves him asleep on the canvas with 1 arm locked in the air like he did Jermain? Dirrell is not a big puncher and he Froch a couple times, once badly, I’m scared for what Arthur will do to him.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though Arthur can hit like a truck I do not worry about Froch’s chin.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Abraham stops Froch.
I also think Kessler, Bute, Andrade and possibly even Dirrell (were they to fight again) stop Froch.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Oct 19, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't do it unequivocally.
Had that ref let jermain take a knee he would have only had to survive another 20 seconds to get a win. That stoppage was premature in my opinion. Jermain was hurt but still had his hands up.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Middleweights
Two guys who are on the verge, but not quite there, with recent good wins: LaJuan Simon (who beat Elvin Ayala convincingly this weekend, and who’s only losses were to Abraham and Sylvester) and Hassan N’dam N’jikam, who smashed Gannady Martirosyan a couple weeks back.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 18, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bute fight should have been stopped because he was out on his feet way before the knockout… and was being helped by the ropes to stand up…
Yeah… I said it… once more…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Oct 18, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
That warranted more of a stoppage than Froch Taylor did.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know maybe just maybe it isn’t unreasonable to think that Abraham is better than Froch…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Oct 18, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I rate Abraham higher as well
But when they face each other, I’ll still pick Froch. I think Abraham gives the other guys tougher fights than Froch though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 18, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could put money on that fight with you
Abraham will BRUTALLY KO Froch. Dirrell hurt Froch badly. When Abraham hits him like that Froch will need the assistance of the refs and his corner not to choke on his own tongue.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch Abraham-Simon and let me know if you still feel the same way
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 19, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
Here’s BoxRec on the 168-pound division after these fights. I’m not saying BoxRec has it right (Froch having been No. 1 was a little bizarre) or that their formula is perfect, but their formula IS more than just a single subjective person, and it comes out with Abraham moving ahead of Froch now, too.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 3:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
These are your rankings, and of course you are absolutely correct that you don’t have to defend them from anybody. But dear God, please don’t use the “boxrec” rankings system to bolster your argument. It is more disturbing, mysterious and convoluted then a Dan Brown novel. And a visit to their “All-Time P4P” rankings is a horrifying psychedelic journey to another world… truly cringe-worthy stuff.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but their formula IS more than just a single subjective person
Actually, it’s not entirely clear what their points formula entails, or who is behind it… if anyone! Frankly, I always imagined some sort of old German robot shitting out computer punch cards in the basement of the U.N: “Beep-Boop-Beep-Boop… Oscar De La Hoya is the #12 All Time P4P”
Their current P4P rankings are outstanding though:
1 Floyd Mayweather Jr
2 Manny Pacquiao
3 Shane Mosley
4 Wladimir Klitschko
5 Chad Dawson
6 Vitali Klitschko
7 Hozumi Hasegawa
8 Kelly Pavlik
9 Juan Manuel Marquez
10 Arthur Abraham
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said I was using it to bolster my argument? I’m not trying to “bolster” anything. My argument starts and stops at the rankings themselves, as no amount of moaning is going to get me to change them. Everything beyond that is discussion, which I’m open to as always.
BoxRec has issues, but they’re constantly tweaking their formula. It’s a very admirable attempt to do something different with rankings, which I’m all in support of. By-the-book rankings are everywhere, the world doesn’t need more people putting together lists of conformist thinking that I honestly just don’t agree with in so many ways.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and posting BoxRec's 168
This was just a way to show another example of how easy it can be to jump or fall without losing; performance, schedule, other fighters, these things all matter. It’s not just “Did I get a win? Hooray, I stay or move up!”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHOA!
What part of “These are your rankings, and of course you are absolutely correct that you don’t have to defend them from anybody” wasn’t I clear about? I was mainly cracking a joke about boxrec.com horrible, horrible rating system, which is legendarily awful. It is no accident of math that they are constantly “tweaking their formula” to elevate German House fighters into the stratosphere.
I rate Arthur Abraham above Carl Froch, for instance, but have trouble believing that Dariusz Michalczewski was a better pound-for-pound fighter than Homicide Hank Armstrong. The system stink, and seems more like a rigged/weighted calculator than a panel of expert thoughtfully analyzing anything.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Froch has "1192 points"
Arthur Abraham has “1287 points”
Mikkel Kessler has “892 points.”
What is this, Zaxxon? By what calculus do Abraham and Froch rate above former unified 168 champ and current WBA titleholder Mikkel Kessler? That’s not a rhetorical question, I’d really like to know! But an obscure point system just produces weird and unrealistic results without any context. Rating boxers is not a science at, because everyone uses different criteria in different amounts to measure them out. The ratings of boxrec seem arbitrary at best (and something else at worst).
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t agree with how they’ve underrated Kessler here, either, and I think they’ve had him underrated for a while. He’s a guy for whom their formula does not work. At the same time, “WBA titleholder” says little about Mikkel Kessler, really, considering the mediocre opposition he fought to get that belt back after the Calzaghe loss. He was basically handed the belt.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the same time, "WBA titleholder" says little about Mikkel Kessler, really, considering the mediocre opposition he fought to get that belt back after the Calzaghe loss
I could’ve gone on and on about the reasons why Kessler ranks at the top of the stack. I went for short and pithy.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part of "These are your rankings, and of course you are absolutely correct that you don’t have to defend them from anybody" wasn’t I clear about?
You were clear, I wasn’t arguing with you. But I want to be clear myself that I’m not using BoxRec to bolster an argument, merely as a different indicator of someone else’s system saying, “Hey, it’s OK to re-evaluate after fights and not just do 1 + 1 = 2” with every situation.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thats what I meant, anyway. Not that you were trying validate your ratings with boxrec’s, but the argument about "1 + 1 = 2" isn’t the only way to rank fighters. Which I agree with. Frankly, straight forward bean-counting seems like a crazy way to rank fighters.
I’ll admit I don’t know how boxrec’s ranking mechanic works, and haven’t really bothered to find out. My reasoning is for this is: If the scoring system they are using consistently produces such bizarre and sometimes totally indefensible results, then the system itself is shoddy if not outright broken. It’s sort of like if someone hands me a calculator that tells me 1 + 1 = 82.5. I not really curious how it arrived at the result, because I know it’s totally wrong.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll admit I don’t know how boxrec’s ranking mechanic works
I don’t either, but I do know they constantly tweak it trying to get it as right as they can. Like with the BCS, some guys are just going to slip through the mathematical cracks, I reckon. For the most part, I think they’re solid, and I support their continued attempt to sharpen the edges of their system.
You know what’s actually a pretty decent ranking system? The IBO’s, but I try not to credit any sanctioning body with much of anything.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are “they.” I’m only asking because I’m honestly starting to get curious now. Have you talked to these cats? I don’t want to plunk down 10 cents per day to register with them, but does registration detail the scoring system, or at least the names of the editors? All of this sometimes seems intentionally cryptic. I’ve always assumed the site was run by Germans, and I know I’m not the only one.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Editors
Argentina
Martin Sosa Cameron
Aldo Chajet
Edgardo Rosani
Marcos Vistalli
Australia
Colin Clowes
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Ben Keilty
Brad Vocale
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Danny Van de Wiele
Freddy Slock
Brazil
Jose Elias Flores Jr.
Sidney Gomes
Canada
Michel St-Pierre
Philippe St-Martin
Chile
Andre Figueroa
Luis Valenzuela Riquelme
China
Zhenyu Li
Croatia
Misel Balic
Cuba
Enrique Encinosa
Czech Republic
Filip Doubek
Denmark
Soren Freiheit
Dominican Republic
Robert Coster
Finland
Miika Forsstrom
Petri Paimander
Pertti Augustin
France
Jerome Fouache
David Melis
Stephane Nicolo
Germany
Wolfgang Schiffbauer
Marco Zeininger
Holland
Wouter van Alst
Tijl van der Steeg
Robert Verwijs
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Raymond Chang
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Laszlo Fejes
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Toni Tiberi
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Alfredo Islas
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Mike Attree
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Edgar Perez Torres
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Andrey Bazdrev
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Spain
Javi Gallego
Emilio Marquiegui
Sweden
Tord Lindh
Roger Soderberg
Switzerland
Fabian Guggenheim
Thailand
Scott Mallon
Damrong Simakajornboon
Uruguay
Carlos Roca Dutra
Ukraine
Andrei Lyabakh
UK
Andy Bottomley
Tom Connell
David Hall
Oliver Fennell
Graham Pearman
Stacey Skinner
Andy Whittle
USA
Brian Benton
Ronald Bishop
Jeff Burns
Bob Caico
Ralph Cathcart
Dan Cuoco
Luckett Davis
Barry Deskins
Mark Hartman
Henry Hascup
Brett Henry
Grey Johnson
Charles Johnston
David Krizan
Jeremy Lantz
Casey Lauer
Melanie Ley
David Lentzer
Deepak Nahar
Juan Ortecho
Bert Ottaviano
Nathan Palmer
Andrew Partlow
Art Peyton
Joseph Richmond
Mike Ringquist
Joshua Rosenfeld
Damien St.Pierre
Matt Tegen
Jake Wegner
Kurt Wolfheimer
Venezuela
Mike DeLisa
Wales
Malcolm Davies
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 19, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you get that list
I have to admit, I don’t recognize many names on it. Is Brian Benton related to George?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 20, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s on the left side of their front page.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Oct 20, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aha!
That’s the page that never loads right for me. And then when I click “Editors” it asks for a password. I was like “What are you trying to hide, boxrec???” :)
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 20, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that is interesting. If you look at the list by the sheer number of editors per country, it looks like the U.S. is “over-represented.” But when you take a closer look, the collection of Europeans editors have the majority, and are sometimes widely overrepresented. For god’s sakes, Holland has three editors. Holland!!!
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Oct 20, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, didn't see this before I posted it below
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 20, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The IBO rankings generally have a much more reliable computer ranking system
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Oct 20, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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