The Super Six... 2
The Super Six appears on its way to becoming a tremendous success. Clearly a lot yet could happen to derail the entire thing, but questionable scoring aside, the first night was as big of a success as can be. The fights were intense if not action pack and the atmosphere was fantastic. 168 will benefit tremendously from this. However, I would like to be the only person on the boxing planet to not be talking about The Super Six. I want to be that fool looking ahead to potential reincarnations before the first one even finishes succeeding.
If this experience produces success, it is one that must be repeated. With all the divisions in boxing, aren't there any others who can do this? I want to examine the other divisions and see where history that hasn't even happened yet could potentially be repeated. Let us begin.
105 - No chance. There is more talent here than there often is, but there isn't a single really well established name and no one outside very select pockets of fans have ever had any passion for this division.
108 - A logical reaction would seem here to be to dismiss 108 for the same grounds as 105, but let's look a little closer. There is talent here, serious talent. In fact, I'd contend this is one of the better divisions in all of the sport. The only problem here is that the talent doesn't seem to fight amongst itself at all. Ivan Calderon, Edgar Sosa, Brian Viloria, Ulises Solis, Giovanni Segura, and someone moving up or down (I vote Naito) would make a fascinating, and fun series of Shobox fights.
112 - Naito/Wonjongkam IV is all this division really has to offer, so no.
115 - Darchynian/Donaire II? Sonsona? Toss in Z Gorres (who has a draw with Vic) and you have some potential, but this division isn't really six deep at the top level. Who else is there? Czares? Munoz? I feel like we'd have to watch Arce be wrecked three times just to round this out.
118 - Hasegawa, Agbeko, Montiel, and Mares. Bring me Vic back up and bring Donaire with him and YES! Look at all the places we could have such great matchups. This would be amazing. Hasegawa takes it, by the way.
122 - JuanMa and Caballero would be great if it could ever happen, but I can't help but worry that we'd just see Vasquez and Marquez hurt. Furthermore, who do we round this out with? Mtagwa for the underdog story? Poonsawat? I'd rather move JuanMa and Caballero up for one at 126.
126 - As I was saying, move JuanMa and Caballero up. Combine them with Chris John, Gamboa, Luevano, and good old Rocky Juarez for some more name value and let the sparks fly. John/Luevano aside, there probably isn't a bad fight in the bunch. 126 could use the emergence of the star it has become accustom to having as well. If Guerrero could come back down to take Juarez's spot, even better.
130 - Eh... There are some interesting fights here I guess, but 130 just doesn't bring the intrigue of other divisions.
135 - The lightweights right now are in a weird state. Marquez, Katsidis, Diaz, Demarco, Guzman, and Valero would be fun, but too many of them have already fought and who knows whether or not Guzman or Valero would even show. Too much repetition, too many potential problems. Wouldn't it be great to at least see Valero finally tested though?
140 - Pacquiao is too big for something like this. However, even without him, this is a fascinating division for the reincarnation of The Super Six and is one of the most likely for it to happen in. Bradley, Khan, Alexander, and Maidana are musts in my opinion. The other two slots could be filled in any number of ways. One last shot for Hatton? Marquez moving (or staying) up to chase Pacquiao? Urango? Holt? Nate Campbell? I like 140 a lot.
147 - Of course Mayweather, Pacquiao, Mosley, Cotto, Clottey, and whoever you want to fill it with is a boxing fan's wet dream, but there isn't enough money in the world to put this one together. Moving on.
154 - This is a division Showtime has invested some in and it would be fairly interesting (Martinez, Angulo, Kirkland, Cintron, Lattimore, and Spinks barring Paul Williams anyone?), but it just lacks the excitment I feel for some of the other divisions. Plus, what are the odds Sergio Martinez doesn't just sweep this if there is reasonable judging and no Paul Williams?
160 - Pavlik, Williams, Sturm, and... There just isn't enough depth. Mundine? Danny Jacobs? Winky? It would be interesting, sure, but there are more exciting options.
168 - No repeat.
175 - If you could put together Dawson, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones, Johnson, and... anyone as long as it isn't Tarver, I'm in. None of them except Johnson would take that on though. Still, Johnson, Pascal, Cloud, and... Okay. There isn't enough at 175, Moving on.
200 - Just get me Adamek/Cunningham II. I don't care about much else here.
201+ - There is fun to be had here. Take out the title Klitschkos and we could have a blast trying to sort out the rest. Imagine some combination of Haye, Arreola, Chambers, Povektin, Johnson, Solis, and Tua. That is seven, but who do you want to cut? I pick to drop Solis, but maybe it should be Tua. Either way, we'd get to find out who the best Heavyweight not from Ukraine for certain and I think we'd actually see some exciting fights.
If I had to pick, I'd do another one at 118, 140, or Heavyweight minus the Klits. I know this is way ahead of the game, but I couldn't help myself.
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I've been saying for a while now that 126 would be ideal
Heck, if he wanted to, Bob Arum could put together a pretty good super six without even getting any other promoters involved (Lopez, Gamboa, Concepcion, Luevano, Cruz, Santiago)
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Also Solis as an alternate
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Man, put Solis in instead of Concepcion. I dread a possible Luevano-Concepcion rematch.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Oct 19, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I like how you just completely tossed 147 to the side
The super six is happening anywhere from 144 – 147 in that division with every single fight cause of the money involved
Gimme 1 round!
No sarcasm
I like it cause it shows some common sense in knowing there isn’t enough money on pay TV to make that happen outside of $50M grossing PPV’s
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Oct 19, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing is all those guys can make money without locking themselves into something for two years. The super middles had some regional stars (Kessler in Denmark, Abraham in Germany) but the rest of them had small fanbases (Ward, Dirrell), were fading and needed something big (Taylor), or were still on the rise in terms of popularity (Froch, who looks like he’s gaining some steam with the UK fans in a big way now). They only had so many options, and none of them were $50 million PPVs. A Super Six will never work on that grand of a scale; you have to sort it out like they did this one or it just won’t work. This collection is probably as star-studded as it can get. 126 or 140 would be good, though.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Oct 19, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Ward
I think its pretty obvious that Ward is also a fairly big local draw, because all of his fights are at home. Also the Miranda fight which was clearly not as widely hyped as this tourney, drew 7,000+ in Oakland which is pretty good. I do like the 126 idea, a lot. The only problem is that this tourney would be substantially more money because these guys are used to making PPV money thanks to the Latin Fury Cards. Hopefully those don’t do so well and this would be possible.
by Waldo Rastel on Oct 19, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Local draw, yes, but he’s going to want to expand outside of Oakland, and this tournament is a great way to do that.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Oct 19, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Heavyweights would be the best choice
The Super Six is about making new stars, and that is what the division needs more than ever, and its what boxing needs.
David Haye, Eddie Chambers, Chris Areloa, Alexander Povetkin, Odlanier Solis, and Ruslan Chagev would be my personal choice for the six.
David Haye, Eddie Chambers, Chris Areloa, Alexander Povetkin, Odlanier Solis, and Ruslan Chagev would be my personal choice for the six.
Sounds like a lot of boring fights, to be honest. The biggest problem with the heavyweights is that they’re duller than dirt. I hate to generalize, but what’s the last heavyweight fight you saw where you really thought, “Boy that was a great fight,” and not just, “That was pretty fun for a couple of technique-deficient galoots.”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Oct 20, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but to be fair I don’t watch a lot of heavyweight fights.
by Drunken cutman on Oct 20, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve watched too many and off the top of my head, my answer is also Lewis-Klitschko.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Oct 20, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You can make an argument for Brewster-Lyakhovich
Although in some ways, that was more like the second category.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yep... Lewis-Klitschko it was....
although honorable mentions for Harrison-Williams II, and I also thought Haye/Barrett was a good fight.
Maybe both are a little one-sided to be what you are looking for, but I enjoyed both, and not in a “My god this is comical” kind of way.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Mind you, I did actually rewatch Holyfield/Valuev yesterday, so even Butterbean would look fast, slick and technically brilliant today….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
I’ve just spent five whole minutes trying to work out why on earth you would re watch that! Still can’t work it out :D
by Drunken cutman on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a good question and a fair one.
I equate Holyfield right now to be a smaller, slower, and less powerful version of David Haye.
I am about to advise a syndicate of people I know, who all bet on my boxing advice, as to which way they should go on Haye/Valuev.
Method Of Victory markets are by far the most value in boxing betting, in my opinion. Andre Berto to beat Juan Urango on points, at even money?!! I’ll have some of that!!
(I also rec’d Malignaggi vs Diaz on points, @ 7/1, Holyfield vs Valuev on points at about 5/1 if memory serves, plus Khan on points vs Kotelnik, Gevor at 8/1 to beat Sturm on points…. This is why I hate robberies so much!! and others, all at even money or more. Abraham by stoppage at 6/4 was massive value this weekend just gone, even if it did look for a minute like I’d done my dough!!)
Basically, I’m trying to work out if I can see a RSF, or a points win for Haye in Germany, or whether to just rec the bet on Valuev outright at 2/1. I think, after watching the fight, that Haye wins, but I don’t think he’ll stop him, and I don’t know if I can trust the cards in Germany, not to rob Haye. If the fight were in Vegas, for example, I’d be backing Haye on points all day long.
I just wanted to remind myself of a few things;
> Exactly how slow and poor Valuev is.
> Exactly how bad the cards were in that fight (I scored it 118-111 Holyfield while watching it yesterday), and whether or not I think they could get away with doing the same thing to Haye.
> Whether Haye will be in danger from anything resembling power.
> How much damage I think Haye’s own power will cause.
Basically, getting a feel for the fight, trying to super-impose Haye on the fight and see how I feel it adds up for him. It was a hellish time rewatching it, but it there were moments of levity observing that Holyfield’s footwork is identical to the skipping routines that Apollo Creed does with Rocky in Rocky 3….. honestly, it cracked me up, you should have a look, even if only for a couple of minutes…
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
The only time I can remember Valuev even getting rocked
Was against Taras Bidenko, and from the video it even looked like there was a good chance he just lost his balance a bit on a slip mid-combo. Also, Haye’s KOs have tended to come from cumulative effect of shots to the head (see: Mormeck, Fragomeni) rather than one punch power, other than guys with glass beards (Macca, Barrett). I don’t think Haye will be able to reach for the sky enough to connect for a TKO, and I don’t think he’ll knock out solid-chinned Valuev with one punch. To me, the pick that really jumps out is Haye by decision, although I’d say second odds should go to Valuev by KO.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Really?
Even after the Holyfield debacle, you would have a Valuev points win as third on your list?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Yeah
In the Holyfield fight, Evander didn’t so much as take the rounds as just Valuev didn’t do jack. Haye will bring the fight to Valuev and force the judges to score for him. Just my opinion though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

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