Team Cotto has no doubts Margarito loaded gloves in 2008
by SC on Nov 13, 2009 7:25 AM EST
in Features
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Lance Pugmire of the Los Angeles Times has a really intriguing piece up about Miguel Cotto's lone career loss, the devastating 2008 defeat at the hands of Antonio Margarito.
This subject recently came up again on Bad Left Hook, and it's something that will never go away without an admission of guilt, if Margarito is guilty of anything. But Team Cotto -- including Miguel, his father Miguel Sr., and his trainer Joe Santiago -- are now saying they're convinced that Margarito had loaded gloves. Margarito and trainer Javier Capetillo were caught attempting to load the wraps with a plaster-like substance in January, in the dressing room prior to Margarito's fight with Shane Mosley. Maragrito and Capetillo both had their licenses revoked shortly after, and are eligible to be reinstated early next year.
Lance Pugmire reports:
Miguel Cotto glanced at the photo. He'd already seen it and had drawn a conclusion about what it indicates.
Cotto and his advisors say that a photograph recently obtained by The Times represents what his father, Miguel Cotto Sr., calls "overwhelming" evidence that his son's 2008 opponent Antonio Margarito used illegally hardened hand wraps to help him score a technical knockout over the previously unbeaten Cotto....
"The only people who can tell you for sure if those [inserts] were in there is Margarito and his trainer, but you have the picture now, so people know," Cotto said.
I think the photo in question is the one to your right on this post, or one of exactly the same thing. It's another thing that has been brought up a lot, especially in recent months. What's with the wraps? What's the tear above his knuckles? What's with the discoloration by the pinky?
Margarito's co-manager, Sergio Diaz, reviewed the photo obtained by The Times and said the discolored portion probably came from red dye in Margarito's gloves bleeding onto the wraps.
"That color is like the color from the gloves that are on his wrists after a fight," Diaz said.
Diaz said Margarito denies any wrongdoing in the Cotto fight or the Mosley pre-fight incident.
Diaz believes representatives of the Nevada State Athletic Commission took custody of Margarito's hand wraps after the Cotto fight.
But Keith Kizer, executive officer of that commission, said Margarito never turned over his hand wraps to Nevada authorities, and wasn't asked to.
This clears nothing up. Of course the Margarito side denies it. They're trying to get him a license to fight in the States again. He's still a young man and has a lot of miles left on the odometer, at least that would be their hope.
Asked if he believes Margarito beat Cotto with loaded gloves, Cotto's trainer Joe Santiago said, "There's no doubt. Look at Miguel's face after that fight."
Santiago is referencing this:
(Photo by Ethan Miller / Getty Images, via Zimbio)
I'm not attempting to be an expert here; not on swelling or cuts or boxing injuries. But I've watched a lot of boxing. You've all watched a lot of boxing. How often do we see cuts and swelling that looks like that? Cotto's taken some beatings from other fighters, too. He cuts frequently. But he's never looked like that before or since.
Now you might say, "Well, that was Margarito, not those other guys." Fair point -- if one assumes that Margarito was clean.
I've long tried to avoid making any big, dramatic statements about the Cotto-Margarito fight because I don't know. I have made dramatic statements about Margarito-Mosley, because it's been made quite clear what the Margarito corner was attempting to do that night, or at least it has in my view, and my view on that one isn't changing.
One of our longtime commenters at BLH brought up in the FanPost I linked at the beginning of this article the idea of getting caught drunk driving not meaning you drove drunk every time; that Margarito being caught red-handed, so to speak, against Mosley doesn't mean that he did it in all of his other fights, and that his career shouldn't be disregarded.
But let's be serious, too: Chances are if you got caught drunk driving, it wasn't your first time. You got away with it before. (Don't drink and drive -- seriously, idiots.) The first time I was caught drinking underage wasn't the first time I drank underage.
It almost surely wasn't Margarito's first time, either. I don't think they suddenly decided he needed to go that route as the world's No. 1 ranked welterweight, unless of course they were looking desperately for any advantage. Margarito has said numerous times that he wasn't in good shape for the fight. But it's just a coincidence that he wasn't in shape and got caught looking for an advantage. And he didn't know it was happening. Just evil genius Capetillo putting a fighter's career in grave danger for ... what reason?
Right, well, I've got a bridge to sell you if you're still buying that one.
You want my gut feeling? He was loaded. That's not me trying to convince anyone else or rally anyone for a cause. At the end of the day I don't much care how anyone else feels on the matter, agree or disagree. I have my own opinion on this, and it's not changing unless something hugely convincing comes out. For even trying to do it once, Margarito deserves every insult he gets from every boxing fan, fellow boxer, boxing journalist, or anyone else. And his career is forever and totally tainted. It's not a forgivable sin in boxing. It's just not.
Despite the Cotto team's strong statements, though, Margarito and Diaz are remaining "optimistic":
Margarito is working out lightly in Mexico, and Diaz said, "We're taking steps to getting our license back."
Bob Arum, who promotes both Cotto and Margarito, said, "The fight everyone would want to see is a Cotto-Margarito rematch."
But Cotto wants Margarito suspended for life.
"I know Cotto says Antonio won't make another penny off [him], but if he's offered a lot of pennies to take the fight, I think he will," Diaz said.
Speak for yourself, Bob. There are a whole lot of us who never want to see Margarito again, period.
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Great Article
It’s hard to separate feeling from fact on this issue, and you’ve done a great job there. I’m with you, I think Marg was loaded, and I never want to see him in, or near a ring again. I don’t believe for a second he didn’t know what was going on with his wraps, and I thoroughly enjoyed the beatdown that Mosely handed him.
Cotto should never enter the ring with him again, and that fight should have a permanent question mark over it.
"Chris Eubank lost his recent comeback fight on points ... the main one being that he's a total git."
by bazzlad on Nov 13, 2009 7:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
good article
I hope Margarito gets banned for life, and I was a huge Margarito fan – what killed me was watching Cotto’s dad in 24/7 talking about Miguel’s face that night, and Miguel talking about taking a knee for the benefit of his kids and his career.
by toodiesel on Nov 13, 2009 7:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Both very moving moments in 24*7, to be sure.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting if they think the picture just came to light now
It’s been on HBOs website since the day after the Cotto fight.
This does kind of speak to one thing which I suspected but was ubsaid – that Evangelista was fired at least in part because Miguel thought he missed illegal wraps in the Margo fight. The timing there was a bit too fortuitous for it to just be a training in Tampa vs. training in Puerto Rico thing.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 8:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Had to be some resentment there. Like Roach said: Somebody in the Cotto camp didn’t do their job that night.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would watch a Margarito fight
and pay for it, so long as Margarito gets his ass kicked.
by ryanwk628 on Nov 13, 2009 9:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is why I enjoy Mosley/Margarito so damn much.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
'I don't think they suddenly decided he needed to go that route as the world's No. 1 ranked welterweight'
This is precisely what I was thinking earlier, before rambling on in the fanpost.
why would he load in a fight where he was the heavy favorite and coming off his best win, and Not for the Cotto fight?! If he did that clean, then he would supremely confident he could take out old man Mosely, who after all was coming off a close loss to the guy he just stopped. It doesn’t make sense to me. In shape or not, a clean Margarito wouldn’t feel he needed wraps, IMHO. I do appreciate Brick’s earlier point about it being harder to load for the Cotto fight though.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 13, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again
Recently, Robert Morales wrote a well researched piece on Boxing Scene laying out the most detailed exposition of what did/or didn’t happen that night. It turns out Keith Kizer, executive head of the NSAC, said that referee Jay Nady and Jack Lazzarotto, the inspector assigned to watch Margarito say not only was Margarito clean, but uncle Evangelista was also there. Lazzaratto, who has 14 years experience said he checked the wraps and can “tell you emphatically that there was nothing illegal about the wraps”. Face it fellas, Cotto just got beat by the better man that night. I just hope Margarito gets reinstated and gets a chance to vindicate himself.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It turns out Keith Kizer, executive head of the NSAC, said that referee Jay Nady and Jack Lazzarotto, the inspector assigned to watch Margarito say not only was Margarito clean, but uncle Evangelista was also there.
That’s funny, considering that Cali commish Che Gueverra signed Margarito’s loaded, gloved hand before the Mosley fight, and that the hand was rewrapped twice in the presence of the head commisioner Deqan Lohuis and Mosley’s corner before they discovered the inserts.
Some Boxing fans are very naive. Boxing is always a Reeking Cesspool of Corruption and Incompetence, until their pet issue comes up. then suddenly all of the commisions and sanctioning body gangsters transform into a combination of Atticus Finch, Mother Theresa and Superman.
Margs did it, NSAC covered up their incompetence, and Top Rank made a play for a rematch by burying their heads in the sand. Get over it.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I regret that I have but one rec to give to this post.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, even Nazim Richardson himself missed it – with his eyes. The only reason he caught on was that he felt the wraps before the gloves went on. Link.
"When he put the wrapping on, I asked if I could feel it and when I felt it, I was like, ‘Oh my goodness, this is too hard,’ " Richardson said. "When the commission flipped the [tape] over, a little block of gauze-like plaster fell out. I said, ‘Unwrap the other hand,’ and they were saying, ‘Oh, oh, the other hand is good.’ I asked the commissioner, ‘What if I unwrap the other hand at the end of the fight and it falls out of there, too?’
"He made them unwrap it. And when they unwrapped the other hand, another one fell out. It was wet with a little plaster on it."
Richardson could not explain why he didn’t see the piece put on Margarito’s hand in the first place.
I’m a bit more sympathetic to Evangelista and the NSAC than you are. Obviously, if Margarito was in fact loaded, they screwed up. But I think it could have been an honest mistake than others might have made as well.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think we’re that far apart. I’m not saying they knew about it beforehand. I’m saying they were generally “incompetent” (which is the correct word to use when someone fails to do their job) and that there was no way they’d reveal that incomptence in an “investigation” they themselves were running. it’s the same story with every commision, including NYSAC here, who is notoriously mob-like in terms of “conspiracies of silence.” I don’t think it necessarily amounts to “accessory after the fact” or anything like that. But these commisioners are mostly political hacks and nepotists. They aren’t anything special, and like anyone else will cover their rear-ends if given the chance. That’s just human nature: See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s possible. I mean, if Margarito loaded, they clearly didn’t do their jobs. But, you know, I think if you insist that their screw-ups were idiotic, that just makes it harder, not easier, for outside observers to believe that the wraps actually were loaded. The theory that he loaded is actually more plausible if you think it was possible for the commissioners and Evangelista to have missed it even if they were watching closely.
I think it’s just a product of human nature – sort of like the boxing equivalent of the “Big Lie” theory. When commissioners and opposing trainers watch boxers wrap their hands, they’re mainly on the lookout for improper taping and other petty stuff that they can imagine a boxer trying to get a small advantage from. The idea that an elite-level boxer would have the audacity to put plaster in his wraps is just so offensive that you don’t watch for it as closely.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But, you know, I think if you insist that their screw-ups were idiotic, that just makes it harder, not easier, for outside observers to believe that the wraps actually were loaded.
Like I said, “incompetent” does not mean “idiotic.” Athletic commissions exist and are paid for one reason and one reason only: to enforce the rules and standards. You measure competency by how well someone does a job, and if they let a lboxer slip by with plastered knuckle-pads right in front of them… well they didn’t do a very good job.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, well I guess we basically agree on substance and are really just arguing about semantics. But just as an FYI, other people will probably have the same reaction to the way you use the term “incompetent” that I did. When I hear that word, I think of someone who doesn’t just fail, but who fails in a blameworthy way – for example, by screwing up something easy because of stupidity or carelessness. If everyone who ever fails at any of his job duties is incompetent, then we’re all incompetent from time to time. People cheat in every sport even though every sport employs people whose job it is to prevent cheating. It still happens because cheating isn’t easy to catch.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If everyone who ever fails at any of his job duties is incompetent, then we’re all incompetent from time to time.
Not all of our jobs involve safeguarding guys whose lives are on the line. Examining the gloves, tape and bandages is the main reason these commissioners have jobs. That’s the entire point. Unfortunately, a lot of these guys treat their “jobs” as the political appointments that they actually are, and use the the dressing room for personal schmoozing and/or acting-like-a-bigshot time. I’m not saying that was the case in Nevada, but those guys certainly aren’t above that. If it happened and they missed it, they’ve failed in their job. We can call it whatever we want, but forgive me if I’m not about to take the Commission’s word for it when they say it didn’t happen, or that they thoroughly investigated it.
Consider that situation in any other job. You suspect that your security guards, Jim and Tim, forgot to lock the gate to your warehouse the night it was robbed, with no sign of forced entry. They claim they locked it. Do you take their word for it? Do you put them in charge of the investigation?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said anything about taking the NSAC’s word for anything, that was somebody else. They may have been incompetent, but they also may not have been. I just think it’s a red herring and a tangent that weakens your overall argument, if the question is whether Margarito loaded.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look, if somebody implies that NSAC’s investigation is proof of Margarito’s innocence, like Brickhaus did on that other post, I’ll address it. If it’s a red herring, I’m not the one who let it swim. Clearing it off the table is important since what you are left with is a bunch of damning evidence that he did it, and ludicrous, comical statements from Margarito’s camp that he didn’t.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re now mixing up two different topics. The commissioner’s pre-fight inspection of the gloves, and the commission’s post-fight investigation of what happened are two separate events.
If someone argues that the commissioner’s pre-fight inspection is proof of Margarito’s innocence, the best counterargument is: “No, it’s possible that the commissioner could have missed it.” It isn’t necessary to argue that the commissioner was incompetent (even though he may have been), because I think that even a competent person could have made an understandable mistake under the circumstances.
If someone argues that the commission’s post-fight investigation is proof of Margarito’s innocence, I agree with you that the best counterargument is that the investigation may have been self-serving. But that’s not what I was talking about.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you look up
You’ll see who I was responding to. And missing it is incompetence. It doesn’t mean stupidity , or blindness or corruption. It’s not a loaded word. I don’t consider letting a guy get away with glove loading in a room crowded with well-paid officals to be an “understandable mistake.” And neither does NSAC, apparently, or otherwise their investigation might have resulted in something more than “Did anybody see anything? Did you Bob? Did you Mike? No? Okay case closed.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
[Shrugs.] If you want to weaken your own argument, then I can’t stop you.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. You can’t.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say it was proof
I said it was evidence. Don’t talk about red herrings and then set up a straw man.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My Straw Man can beat up your Red Herring, Sharpshooter Fallacy and your True Scotsman on the same night.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Class!! :)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 13, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll see your straw man and raise you two ad hominems and a pathetic fallacy.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 13, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You win this hand, Miller.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
check your email
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 13, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like three guys covering their asses to me.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does “wraps” include the knuckle pad?
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the picture shows anything
Really we will never know unless someone in their camp fesses up.
I agree with SC though. I have a gut feeling too that he loaded those gloves. That plaster had to take time to harden, and it’s convenient that Margarito is a fighter who seems to blossom in the late rounds. It was no different in the Cotto fight.
The only person I’ve seen look that beat up was Arturo Gotti (RIP).
by erod on Nov 13, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Right
The whole “Cotto got too beat up” thing is a red herring. It has nothing to do with this either way. I remember watching Pipino Cuevas mangle guys with his fists. It was like he hand a pair of chainsaws at the end of his wrists. If DLH ever met up with Pipino in the time warp fight, his female fan base would have disappeared overnight. A fighter can certainly do that to another guy with untainted gloves. That picture doesn’t mean anything either way.
This picture, on the other hand:
The sort of ear wound we see here is a strange one. There is something abnormal about it. it looked more like it was hit with an object with edges then the blunt, distributed force of a gloved hand. This is a very suspicious picture.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on Lujan
This just shouldn’t happen in Boxing. Then again, there have been some pretty strange injuries without any implication of cheating (Rocky Juarez turning Barrios into the joker, Vitali looking like T-1000 after Lennox laid into him, Rahman getting a welt on his head the size of a softball, etc.)
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This shouldn't happen in anything that doesn't star Elmer Fudd
Or Sigourney Weaver.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AGREE
I read that article too, Evangelista said it himself plain and simple the got beat. A rematch sounds good. Arce,Hatton,Meldrick Taylor and many more Boxers have looked like that and worse.
by rgb on Nov 13, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly....
People are acting like they’ve never seen anyone look that beat up after a fight.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Show us a pic where somebody looks that beat up after a fight. If it happens so often, it should be easy to find.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can look them up yourself.
Have you ever seen Gatti after a fight…. or Rafael Marquez and Israel Vazquez after their brutal fights? I’m guessing you haven’t because they all have looked just as bad or worse than Cotto.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boxers do look that beat up all the time, but at the same time Cotto does look different than your average beat-up boxer. It’s a qualitative, not a quantitative difference. That is, it’s not how badly he was beat up per se, it’s just that it seems like there’s something a little unusual about the shapes of the cuts and bruises.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cuts are cuts...
The only unusual thing is that until this fight nobody had given Cotto a brutal beating. For every fighter there’s always gonna be someone out there who has their number, in this case a bigger pure pressure fighter. How come nobody makes an argument for Clottey or Sabastion Lujan who had his ear torn from his head? What it boils down to is Cotto’s fans just hate the fact that he got beat down that night.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People make arguments about Lujan all the time.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People have been talking about the Lujan injury since the moment the story about the Mosley wraps hit. They were also talking about his sparring partner, Rashad Hollway, who suffered a fractured orbital sparring with Margarito. The only people not talking about these things were Top Rank, Team Margarito and fans who like to bury their heads in the sand whenever one of their heros turns out to be a zero.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok....so why not an argument for Clottey?
Plain and simple….Clottey didn’t look all beat up because he has great defense and didn’t get hit with as many clean shots as these other guys who were overwelmed with Margarito’s volume of punches.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wedid talk about Clottey/Margarito. We talked about his hand injury he suffered that fight, and we talked in relation to his great blocking and catching defense, during which Margarito’s hands came into continual contact with his own. Again, the only people who didn’t hear any of this were the ones sticking their fingers in their ears and their heads in the sand.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like John McEnroe says..."You cannot be serious!!"
Are you really insinuating that Margarito had loaded gloves during that fight too and broke Clottey’s hand from the continuous contact? You’re really reaching now pal.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clottey didn’t look all beat up because he has great defense and didn’t get hit with as many clean shots as these other guys who were overwelmed with Margarito’s volume of punches.
Didn’t you just say this not five seconds ago? Where were those punches landing, in outer space? Clottey fights the way Clottey fights, and that includes getting hit on his hands a lot. By itself, its meaningless that he got hurt in this fight, and not another one. But were not talking about “by itself.” We’re talking about a proven, glove loading cheater, and so every fight has a question mark now, and every shattered orbital, busted knuckle and weird looking ear wound looks suspicious because of it. That’s part of the price of cheating.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boxers break hands from hitting heads, elbows, and hips.
I doubt in a big way Clotty’s hand was broken from Margarito’s punches landing on his hands with (according to you allegedly loaded gloves).
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all, it wasn't broken.
Second of all, anybody can injure a hand if something hard hits it, whether they are a boxer or not.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a stress fracture.
In an interview on HBO Boxing he stated himself that he thinks it came from a combo he threw….the first punch was at the head from which he began feeling pain.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
from a combo he threw….the first punch was at the head from which he began feeling pain.
I saw the interview and it proves nothing. Clottey himself said he wasn’t sure exactly when the injury occurred, which is often the case in a fight. Sometimes you’ll see a guy who literally “breaks” his hand on a punch. Sometimes you see the immediate reaction on tape, and this is usually when the break is bad enough to be eventually stopped. There is no such reaction during the Clottey fight. Afterwards when they asked him how he hurt his hand he only said it happened in the fifth round, possibly from a combination. He didn’t know.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...guess we'll agree to disagree.
Its been fun debating you…glad you kept it clean.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
This is just ridiculous point to argue about, so I’m not going to do it anymore. You asked “How come no one said anything about Lujan or Clottey?” and I pointed out that they did, and still do. They also question what happened to Cotto and Holloway. Some people even question the Cintron fights. They do it because it has been proven Margarito tried to do something completely outrageous in Mosley fight, in a room packed with Athletic Commission officials and Shane’s cornermen. In light of that, what is usually taken as a normal part of the game suddenly makes you look twice.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And after the post-fight interview
results came back and said the hand wasn’t broken, he just had strained ligaments.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Punisher looked good after the fight to.
The secret to beating a guy with loaded gloves is to not get hit very much?
I’ll alert the media.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
It really isn’t as simple as that. Not nearly as simple. Ask any good cutman (I actually am not one despite my name!) and you can find out that there are many different kinds of cuts caused by different kind sorts of things. It’s far from an exact science but someone with a medical background or good corner experience would be highly suspicous when seeing that photo of Cotto.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and just in case Chaos is about to shout at me I don’t have an opinion on whether he loaded for the Cotto fight or not and was merely making a semi-medical ovservation on the nature of cuts!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't shout at anyone.
And I don’t have an opinion either way, either. I have never said he did, or that he didn’t, I have merely said that no-one else can justifiably postulate regarding the issue, either.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 13, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. but for someone who doesn’t have an opinion, you seem to talk about this subject a lot. When someone arrives at the reasonable conclusion that the guy they found standing outside the bank with a gun , mask and and a bag full of money might have robbed the bank, I don’t see why there’s a need to call it a witch hunt, or say were being unfair. Margarito has been subjected to an oversupply of fairness in all this, as far as I’m concerned. He kept his purse, avoided criminal charges and may well be allowed to return to his profession, all while being caught red-handed with a loaded glove. Now we can’t even be suspicious of this crumb-bum? Okay.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...
When someone arrives at the reasonable conclusion that the guy they found standing outside the bank with a gun , mask and and a bag full of money might have robbed the bank, I don’t see why there’s a need to call it a witch hunt, or say were being unfair.
This is more like saying the guy they found standing outside the bank with a gun, mask and and a bag full of money might have robbed SOME OTHER BANK six months prior.
Nobody’s contesting that something fishy happened in the Mosley fight, although there’s a little bit of doubt in my mind (but not much) that what he was doing in that fight even wouldn’t actually hurt the other fighter more. As I said before, if they could prove that, he would have been criminally prosecuted. The bad intent is certainly there though. Like someone taking steroids in a nonhelpful way.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is more like saying the guy they found standing outside the bank with a gun, mask and and a bag full of money might have robbed SOME OTHER BANK six months prior.
Well, if there had been a string of robberies in the area, by a guy wearing a Darth Vader mask, and you caught a guy wearing a Darth Vader mask outside one bank, you don’t have to necessarily be fucking Columbo to suspect him of the other ones. You do, how every, need to be able to tap dance on the head of a pin to ignore it.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T SHOUT!?!?!?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. A guy can get a nasty cut or hematoma. (I knew that pic of Rock was coming.) But how many times have you seen a guy bleeding from both eyes, the ears, both nostrils, spitting blood.
Overall, that’s up there with the worst I ever saw, including Izzy/Raffy and Thunder.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think the total damage strains credulity.
A guy can take damage around an eye. Or both eyes. Or to the nose. But when Cotto takes a knee that’s as all-around lumpy as I think I’ve ever seen anybody get. Bleeding from the eyes, nose, ears.
Total damage, versus one/two cuts, I guess was my point.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a few
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arce
looks incredibly awesome in that photo where he’s wearing the hat!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think the total damage strains credulity.
A guy can take damage around an eye. Or both eyes. Or to the nose. But when Cotto takes a knee that’s as all-around lumpy as I think I’ve ever seen anybody get. Bleeding from the eyes, nose, ears.
Total damage, versus one/two cuts, I guess was my point.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He had two cuts around one eye and a bloody nose
The rest of the blood is just drippage, or his own blood that was spread around from Margo hitting him. He wasn’t bleeding out of his ears and his lips weren’t bloody. I’ll try and find a pic after the loose blood was cleaned up.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HIs father said in 24/7 that he was bleeding out of his mouth and ears and that he was crying blood.
I’m not talking about that pic in those instances.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats BS.....unless he had Ebola.
by ultimoshogun on Nov 13, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re calling BS on me, or his dad? Because episode 1 is on iTunes. You can watch his dad say it for yourself.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. No way of knowing for sure.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Evangelista doesn't have an axe to grind, either.
At all. Totally objective observer.
That fistfight he and Miggy got in a few months ago? Good, clean family fun.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Margarito’s co-manager, Sergio Diaz, reviewed the photo obtained by The Times and said the discolored portion probably came from red dye in Margarito’s gloves bleeding onto the wraps.
“That color is like the color from the gloves that are on his wrists after a fight,” Diaz said.
That’s hilarious. Last time I laced up the gloves [a few months ago] I remember the inside fabric to be black on any exterior color.
"Penelosa is not human." -Max Kellerman on Gerry Penelosa during the Juan Manuel Lopes-Gerry Penelosa bout.
by Sickle on Nov 13, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Grrr
Margarito’s co-manager, Sergio Diaz, reviewed the photo obtained by The Times and said the discolored portion probably came from red dye in Margarito’s gloves bleeding onto the wraps.
“That color is like the color from the gloves that are on his wrists after a fight,” Diaz said.
That’s hilarious. Last time I laced up the gloves [a few months ago] I remember the inside fabric to be black on any exterior color.
"Penelosa is not human." -Max Kellerman on Gerry Penelosa during the Juan Manuel Lopes-Gerry Penelosa bout.
by Sickle on Nov 13, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s an outrageously funny theory. It’s really the same thing as saying “Hey you are all a bunch of saps and suckers, so chew on this turd sandwich.” You’d expect to see this in a good comedy movie about boxing… in other words one that doesn’t star Woody Harrellson and Antonio Banderas.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that sounds like BS to me as well
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Margarito should be banned for life, regardless of whether or not he loaded against Cotto.
It’s a non-issue. That said, he obviously did. Rewatch the fight. The HBO commentary repeatedly mentions how damaging his punches are even though they don’t look solid, and those guys watch boxing for a living.
He was trying to do it against Shane, he did do it against Miggy. Ban his raggedy ass for life.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
More of less exactly right
In terms of whether or not he should be banned for life, the Cotto case matters not a jot. He got caught trying to load against Mosley and that is simply reprehensible in itself. He literally could have killed Shane and if anyone thinks he deserves to return to boxing then that’s a very strange thing to think.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the commission was certain that the pad would harden
He would have gotten much longer than a 1 year suspension and he would have been criminally prosecuted.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s good to know I suppose.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I’d read that the 1-year suspension was the max allowable punishment. Point taken on the criminal prosecution angle though.
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t get the license back automatically after the year is up. That’s just the earliest he can reapply for a license, sort of like a parole hearing. He was stripped of his license indefinitely, but can reapply.
He’ll get it back, too. I hate to be a pessimist, but there is too much money in this kitty for the commission to do the right thing, which would be to deny his license and send him packing.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He should not be allowed to apply for relicense.
He could have killed someone. He should be banned for life.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The CSAC has been under some real fire this year — that might influence the decision. They might want to get political and go, “Look at this hard line we took! Not in our state! Not with this commission!”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 13, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to believe that those guys could potentially “do the right thing for the wrong reason,” but I wouldn’t lay five dollars on that outcome. It would just be so goddamned out of character. The shelflife on media outrage is only a few months at best, and less so for Boxing. Look at the whitewashing of beauty-queen raping, leg-biting, testicle-stomping headcase Mike Tyson that’s been going on for about a year year now. They had that gruesome sunuvabitch doing the rounds at Cannes and crying on Oprah, for fucks sakes. Twelve months is about 51 weeks longer than the average attention span.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand, has the statute of limitations run out yet?
by taco pal on Nov 13, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. I agree.
He should be banned for what we know he did, which is load up for the MOSLEY fight. As Drunken Cutman rightly says, the Cotto fight is largely irrelevant in that regard.
Let’s castigate Margarito for what we know he is guilty of, not make up things to suit agendas and then attempt to castigate him for those instead.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 13, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
^this^
is ,in my opinion, the fair way to look at it.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 13, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Scott on this one
I don’t see him or his trainer “suddenly” feeling the need to cheat against Shane. I think they’d gotten away with it before, so they tried it again. As far as Antonio’s guilt in this goes I’m of the same opinion that I have with baseball players and steroids. You are a professional athlete, if something is going into your body, you better damn well know what it is. Marg should have been aware of the fact that something was going on. His record will forever be tainted by these findings, regardless of what anyone else suspects. Everyone is of their own opinion on this incident and Margarito as a person, but you cannot deny the danger Mosley would have been in that night, and you cannot deny that it arouses suspicion of his previous fights and tarnishes his record. At the end of the day Antonio’s fate is not up to any of us, and all we can do as boxing fans is to either root against him, boycott him, or get in his corner and support him and the rest of his career. Personally I hope to never see him fight again, the plaster could have hospitalized or killed Mosley. Of course, that’s the kind of risk you take when you compete at the professional level in boxing but it further illustrates my disdain for this sort of cheating. Boxing is already a dangerous sport and the wraps increased the opponent of the cheating fighter’s chances of getting seriously injured exponentially.
by rmatheny on Nov 13, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just read this article on the bus.
I’m wondering if anyone knows how to see the pic they’re referring to
by Option27 on Nov 13, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nah
They didn’t include it on the online version. I suspect it was one of the HBO post-fight photos though. The way they described it, it was probably the picture up above, or a similar one.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 13, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, this is exactly the sort of straight-shooting that got me hooked on BLH in the first place. There are a lot of guys in the mainstream boxing press on both sides of the issue who either bloviate or mince words about this sort of ugly business, but Christ stabs straight to the heart of the thing, and its commendable. We need more of this in our sport.
Here’s my thing : for the duration of my life (and long before) Boxing has always been a target for a certain kind of “humanitarian”, and when shit like Margarito pulled gets brushed aside or swept under the rug by the promoters, commissions and sanctioning bodies it paints another big red target on Boxing’s ass. The sad fact is that the individuals and groups that are responsible for policing our sport will not police it. It not always because of corruption, either. There’s a real bunker mentality that goes on, a reflex to block criticism of the sport by pretending that certain things don’t happen, and trying minimizing or sweep the ugly stuff under the rug when it comes out. This is a bad strategy. When you don’t police the sport from the inside it invites it’s critics to police it (or ban it) from the outside. The people who love be Boxing’s fiercest critics when something foul like this happens, instead of trying to excuse or ignore it. Margarito got a slap on the wrist for cheating in a very dangerous way, and looking back on his career it is easy to see a pattern. Instead, I’ve been hearing a lot of voices saying that it was “probably the first time” and generally acting like it’s not a big deal if he did it before. That’s a steaming load. it’s a big deal, and it hurts Boxing.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 2:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I want to again thank everyone for being civil, whether agreeing or disagreeing. I know it’s an issue that has a lot of passion and feeling behind it on both sides, and the fact that I didn’t have to delete or hide anything here, and no one had to be warned or banned, is pretty amazing, really.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 13, 2009 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cheating has been around in boxing in many forms for many years.
Most people are familiar with when Angelo Dundee put his finger into a tear on Ali’s gloves when he fought Henry Cooper.
Most people are also familair with the fact that the last man Margarito fought has a history with steroid abuse.
The problem is if you really want to punish cheating then you can’t just let some people get away with it or give them a slap on the wrist and then bring others down.
A lot of people are going to be quick to shoot this down by saying it is an invalid comparison because one is more serious than the other but the fact of the matter is cheating is cheating and it’s never been punished effectively if at all so why would you expect that to change now?
A lot of people love to bring up the Margarito vs Cotto match but we all know how fair Cotto plays with his dirty fighting. End of the day many fighters in the past have cheated but few have been punished for it. If you want to punish fighters for cheating you can’t pick which ones to punish and which ones to let off the hook you have to punish them all.
I’d like to see a comprehensive penalty for low blows and head butts as well which can change the direction of a fight just like substance abuse or loaded gloves can.
End of the day when you create an unfair advantage for yourself you are cheating and regardless of how you are doing it you should be punished for it.
by MannyPacquiao on Nov 13, 2009 9:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you can’t penalize low blows and head butts because not all of them are intentional. southpaw vs orthodox fights almost always end up having multiple head butts. its not the fighters fault (mostly), but it happens. same with low blows. a guy throws a body shot, but the other guy moves and it lands on the nether regions it happens. what DOESN’T naturally happen is loading up. there is a difference between general sports deviance (intentional low blows, head butts, etc) and criminal deviance (loading)
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is such a thing as a 'good' dirty fighter.
Fritzie Zivic was one. Duran was another. Sweet Pea, Hopkins, Holyfield, Chavez, Barrera, The Bodysnatcher (who was also, occasionally the Nutsack Snatcher)…. all of them were All Time Great fighters who knew when and how to dish the dirt. You could make the claim that Casamayor and Cotto were/are great dirty fighters today. To be great and dirty requires a bit of finesse. Andrew Golota, on the other hand, was NOT a great dirty fighter. He was an obvious, abysmal Fouler who fouled out of frustration and fear.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see a comprehensive penalty for low blows and head butts as well which can change the direction of a fight just like substance abuse or loaded gloves can.
These exist, and always have. Points are deducted, and eventually you can be disqualified. If you don’t think there’s a difference between these things and what Margarito did, I’m not sure what to tell you.
Andrew Golota was the dirtiest fighter I’ve ever seen by ten million miles, but the sort of things he has done in a boxing ring don’t even remotely compare to a vile cheat who secretly loads his gloves. These are completely different planets. It’s on a different planet than steroids, and even on a different planet than taking a dive in a fight. Loading secret bullshit inside your gloves is like taking a squirt on the entire sport of boxing, and anyone who says different is doing the same thing as far as I’m concerned.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 13, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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