There's something about Manny
by jrok on Nov 15, 2009 2:25 AM EST
Email
Print
FanPost promoted by Scott
I don't like Boxrec.com.
I respect the effort: A database of fights, reaching back through the decades of a sport that has more or less defined the whole meaning of "sport" for me. But I still don't like it, and the reason I don't can be summed up in two words:
Henry Armstrong.
Homicide Hank held three championships simultaneously, which represented more than a third of professional Boxing in his era. He's the stuff of legend. But if you browse boxrec.com's list of the top 100 All Time Pound for Pound fighters in history, he doesn't exist. He's not #98 or #99 or even #100. For the record, #100 is a Thai named Pone Kingpetch. I don't know who he is, either.
Manny Pacquiao fights like Armstrong fought. It's not just the weight jumps, either. Like Armstrong, his offense is naturally, almost merrily, murderous. They were both happy warriors who I don't think truly understood that they weren't supposed to be able to do the things they were doing. And, true to form, Pacquiao's most recent assault on Miguel Cotto looked as natural as a rainstorm in April. Manny's the five star ring general who started as a non-com, and by the mid rounds, he was playing the southpaw 1-2-1 on Cotto like a maestro hammering a Yamaha. It was weirdly premature for HBO's crew to call for a stoppage in the 7th round, but it also wasn't. It wasn't that Cotto was getting beaten to the verge of injury, like Oscar was. It was more like watching one chess grandmaster blow a crucial move, and deciding whether to watch the inevitable endgame play out. For Lampley, Steward and Lederman and the entire Cotto clan, the game was already over. Merchant wanted it to play on. So did I.
It was a great boxing moment, watching Cotto play out that losing hand. I saw the same sparks of defiance that marked all the great championship fights I've ever seen. I saw the Arguello who battled Pryor -- and the aftermath, and the questions that last to this day. But the triumph of Pacquio was more Armstrong-esque than that. There hasn't been any controversy about Manny Pacquiao, and there won't be. He's the genuine article. He can sing or star in goofy movies or run for president. But the slashing, insistent combinations he throws are the most important thing he'll ever do in his life, if only because he is so damn good at them and he makes them look so damn easy.
I'm a Manny Pacquiao fan, and have been a Pacquiao fan for years. But this latest fight has made me think about boxing in a different way -- which is hard when you are a crusty curmudgeon! I would bet Armstrong had a similar effect on the curmudgeons of his time. For us, boxing is all about size and weight, and transcending 40 pounds over a career is equivalent to running a 4.4 on the moon. But whether Cotto was "damaged goods" or not, Pacquiao pulled off a trick that only Boxing's most elite desperadoes would dare try. Space age websites like boxrec.com will probably be kinder to Pacquiao than they are to Armstrong -- at least in the short term. After all, he fought a larger man who specialized in beating the living hell out of southpaws, and he instead beat the living hell out of him.
And he made it look easy.
Floyd Mayweather: Stay far, far away.
(AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)
FanPosts are user-created content written by community members of Bad Left Hook, and are generally not the work of our editors. Please do not source FanPosts as the work of Bad Left Hook.
119 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
yeah
you can fucking write.
"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams
by lcollins1 on Nov 15, 2009 2:40 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hear that
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Be careful...
As good as Pacman is, Floyd is a legendary fighter too…
by MatM on Nov 15, 2009 2:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I know common opponents is not the best indicator of what will happen in a match…. but what FMM did to JMM makes me think he has the edge on Manny.
Marquez was fat and old. Can we just be honest about that now? Floyd beat up a little fat guy in a horseshit fight that made me embarrassed to have told people to watch it.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Oh come on I wouldn’t say that all that. Marquez looked awful cause Floyd was bigger and better. period.He didn’t throw and have a war cause he couldn’t. Floyd controlled the tempo the whole fight like he always does.Why would u let off in barrages if you can’t see targets and openings? He couldn’t do nothing but play Mayweather’s counterpunch tactics. Marquez is a legend. Just because it didn’t live up to peoples expectations doesn’t mean you gotta write him off as fat and old. Yeah he’s 36. But he’s in great shape. But he’s smaller than Floyd. So it’s a very valid excuse for everyone not to give Floyd his props. I understand that. Floyd is just that good.
Relative to you or me, Marquez may not have been 'fat' that night.
But you must surely accept that that particular incarnation of Marquez was fatter than usual, right?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
But he’s in great shape
Only in the looking better with your shirt off sense. He’s getting old and it’s a shame but SC is right about the Mayweather fight. The weight jump was way too much for him and he is getting old.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 15, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I agree.It’s not his natural weight class. Some people can adapt and some can’t.(But then again, who ever looks good against Floyd.) The 144 catch weight I think was too heavy for him. But you can’t blame him.It was the greatest opportunity to fight Floyd. Anybody would’ve took that fight even if it was ten pounds heavier than ur used to fighting.
no one is blaming marquez for taking that fight. he’s been in so many wars that he deserved a big money shot, but come on dawg it is what it is. JMM was a blown up lightweight who couldn’t do shit that fight because he was a blown up a lightweight. yes obviously mayweather’s style contributed to JMM’s awful performance, but JMM physically was NEVER in that fight. the moment that JMM signed the contract for a fight at 144 was the moment he was doomed to be embarrassed.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
When did anyone blame Marquez for taking the fight? Marquez could retire now if he wanted to. JMM did the best he could, but was far out of his weight class. The man looks a bit soft at 135, and he looked awful at 144. Better shape than me? Yes, by a lot, but that also goes for Cris Arreola, so woopty doo.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
so now you admit that JMM’s “bulk” was softness ;)
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
It was when he stood by a ripped Mayweather that I went “oh jeez.”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Just because it didn’t live up to peoples expectations doesn’t mean you gotta write him off as fat and old.
Whose expectations exactly? I didn’t think it would be a great fight. Anyone that did doesn’t know what they’re talking about (no offense to anyone that did). But when big events come up, people ask me if they should bother, and I was like, “Yeah, Floyd’s a great fighter and it’s a big event.” Then he basically sparred a little pudgy-looking guy for 36 excruciating minutes.
I write off Marquez in that fight as fat and old because he was fat and old. Mayweather handpicked the easiest fight (some) people would accept and then did his usual song-and-dance after about everyone not respecting him and how terrible and unfair that is.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Many people thought it would’ve been more contested than it really was. I mean,after all this is the guy who won about 13 rounds against Manny Pacquiao in their two bouts.. No one can say that. I thought he looked great against Juan Diaz too. Yeah maybe u got a point. Maybe he is getting too old. I still think think he has a good 3 years left though. I just think he looks a lot better than most guys out there still.
He’s my No. 3 P4P fighter. If he was staying at 147 pounds, he wouldn’t be in my top 20, and I don’t think he’d be in the top 10 in the division. He was awful and could not handle the weight.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
He's not in my top 3, but he is very close.
Apart from that, everything in this post is either accurate, or we’re both wrong.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Let me put it this way: At 147, I’d pick Zab Judah to demolish Marquez.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 16, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'd take that bet
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I'm with SC on this one.
My P4P top 3 are Pac, Floyd and Paul Williams, however.
Marquez doesn’t get in there, but he is in my top 10, definitely.
And I’d take Judah over Marquez at 147. JMM was so SLOW against Floyd, and although part of that was due to Floyd being so fast, Judah is no slouch himself….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Judah would rip Marquez apart at that weight. JMM won a couple of damn good, but pretty hotly contested fights at 135 with Casamayor and Diaz, neither of whom are big punchers. And they both got to Marquez pretty well. Floyd carried him through the 12 round sparring exercise. Judah is a bigger man and would be in there for the kill since Marquez still has name value. Marquez is pressing it at 135 as is.
The only way I see it turning on Zab is if Marquez can hurt him, which I don’t see happening, unless that part where Marquez broke a bag in training on “24/7” really gave you a boner.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 17, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I was saying I agree with you, ie- either you're right, or we're both wrong....
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
I know
I just wanted to take it further.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 17, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough....
It just looked like you thought I was disagreeing…
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
your right
JMM was fat, he is still GREAT. FM fought at a weight that he wanted not the weight that he was suppose to fight in. MP and FM fight will happen in March. As of now No other boxer besides JMM and Morales in his first fight has beat up MP. It’s up to Mayweather or if MP fight a third match with MP at 140.
JMM hasn’t “beat up” pacquiao
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
they went to war with each other (not one beating the other up), and i had pacman up in both fights
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not the same thing.
Pac. has been champion at so many levels.
Mayweather is a one division champion. He is awesome at skill boxing, but he is not a force of nature, once in a lifetime if your lucky, fighter like Pac.
Even if Mayweather were to beat Pac, Pac would still be greater in the history books. Has Mayweather taken on any Heavyweights? Has Mayweather even jumped in to fight the most dangerous fighters out there? No.
Mayweather may be a legend, but if you look at the body of work, he is not really much compared to Pac.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
uhh mayweather wasn’t always a welterweight yo.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. People don’t remember he was a great featherweight and one of the best lightweights i’ve seen in my time.
Super feather
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Just be honest. You’ll never give Mayweather the credit he deserves if he were to beat Manny.So many people have the same attitude as you. Yeah I agree Mayweather needs to fight true Welterweight opponents though.And until he beats everyone, people will always discredit him cause he’s not as exhilarating as Manny and other boxers.But I highly doubt he’ll get the credit anyways.
I won't give him the credit is correct.
But that is because of his attitude.
I do, however, agree with the majority, that Floyd is favored in a fight with Pac.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Mayweather. is an All Time Great Lightweight. I don’t think it’s possible to argue this point. He did real ring business at that weight. I’m not sure what kind of a welterweight he is, because the only fight I can really gauge him at there is with Carlos Baldomir, who was possibly the worst lineal Welterweight champ in the modern era. Besides that, his welterweight fights were Junior Welts Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell and Ricky Hatton, and fattened-up Featherweight Juan Manuel Marquez. That’s not a dig on Floyd either, and I’m not saying he can’t beat welterweights. It’s still just very hard for me to look at him and say “yeah, he’s a Welterweight.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Do you think he could still make 140 and still be Floyd?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Probably not. Physically I buy him as a welterweight at this point, it’s just that when he was the welterweight champ there were at least five true welters he could have picked to defend against, and he picked Hatton. It was the smart financial move, but it didn’t necessarily convince me that he was prepared to take on career welts.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
No doubt, Boxrec's rankings are flawed
And the pound for pound and all-time rankings, even more so. But they have their uses.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
And FWIW
Kingpetch may well deserve a top 100 spot. He beat 3 prime hall of famers, including two wins over Pascual Perez.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That's fine
But he doesn’t deserve a slot over Henry Armstrong. if fact, there are approximately 90 fighters in their top 100 who don’t deserve that slot.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Of course not
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
"In fact"
And (aside from the absence of Hank) it’s not that boxrec’s rankings are totally fake. They are in a putrid order, though.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
good article till i read this “Floyd Mayweather: Stay far, far away.” hope ur talking about floyd senior …. styles make fights and manny was beyond impressive 2nite but floyd is not a crouched forward defensively leaky ww with questions about exactly what he has left in the tank … so lets not get ahead of ourselves.
that being said i cannot give enuf props to manny for shocking me once again, i favored him but he makes it seem easy. hes a total beast. props to cotto for showing his immense heart as well… pacman truly the fighter of the decade …. pbf pac has to happen
I hear ya on the Floyd-Manny fight. They are, in my view, the ONLY guys that can beat the other one. It is a MUST-HAVE fight.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:15 AM EST up reply actions
before i was saying that the only mandatory PBF fight was one with mosley, but pacman proved that he can demolish anyone at 147. if money may dances his way around this fight, i would never respect pbf ever again as good as he was.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
I think Tall Paul is a tougher matchup for Floyd than Manny is
But that’s about it. Heck, I think Manny could beat Paul, because he’d have trouble keeping Manny on the outside, but Floyd would stay there voluntarily, and he’d find that a lot of shots that he normally gets out of range for would still hit him.
I’d still favor Floyd over Manny though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Heck, I think Manny could beat Paul, because he’d have trouble keeping Manny on the outside,
There’s no way any southpaw beats Paul Williams, ever.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Ever after
Is what I mean. He’s fought too many. Hell, he’s fought the best and the rest.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I mean, shit
He torched Quint in one round in their rematch. It’s pretty clear he can bang fellow lefties better then any left in 30 years. I bet a LARGE amount on the Winky fight. Winky never fought a left hander in his life.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
i always thought there shoulda been a rubber match with quintana … cause i thought there coulda been a good chance he just caught him cold … but that being said quintana coulda just caught pwill on a off nite the 1st time
… but that being said quintana coulda just caught pwill on a off nite the 1st time
I personally don’t think so. Paul had the same trouble getting lefty sparring partners that everyone else has… multiplied by a million because he was Paul Williams.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I mean
Carlos got Paul because he wasn’t really at the stage where he had a lot of experience with fellow southies, It was clear the way Paul reacted to Quintana’s counter right hook. “What the fuck is that bullshit? That shit should be a foot shorter!!!”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
when pwill fights at ww again then i;ll believe his still a ww … i still dont get why hes even fighting martinez at 160 …
He was training to be at 160, and Martinez had wanted the Pavlik fight, too.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
ya tru enuf .. but pwill was saying at the presser for the pavlik fight he walks around at around 160 so i was surprised to hear that when this fight was made he was making martinez go up instead of fighting at 154 where it means more … still a good matchup and looking forward to it … i could be wrong but i see martinez as a live dog in there and it wouldnt shock me all that much if he pulls it off …
It’s weird because his team says he can fight at 168, but that might just be his team getting nutty. Honestly I think he’d get beaten up at 168, but after watching Manny disregard weight, who knows?
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
Manny is special
I mean, he really is. When they say “blue moon” they are talking about this motherfucker.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Manny is so incredible my half-drunk ass won’t even try putting it into words. He WALKED THROUGH good shots from Miguel Cotto tonight.
Two things were debunked:
1. Manny’s power doesn’t translate at welter. I know Cotto had two cut more than usual, but two pounds were not making a difference tonight. And Oscar’s dejected, swollen-faced ass is flat-out lying if he’s saying he didn’t feel Manny’s power.
2. Manny might not be able to take a punch at welter. From who? He WALKED THROUGH Cotto tonight. Walked through him! That was what amazed me most. Maybe rattled ever so slightly a couple times but whatever — Miguel Cotto should do that to ANYONE at welter.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
my half drunk ass completely agrees with u … i was expectng pac to be chin checked in this fight and i wasnt 100% sure he was gonna pass … man did he ever pass with flying colors. and its amazing to say that he ended up being the puncher 2nite …
dlh has proven he has a real chip on his shoulder about pac, so i wouldnt believe much of what he said concerning that subject.
cottos body shots, any shot really, had zero effect on him. i was wondering what the hell he was doing standing straight up taking those body shots, turns out he was just kinda toying with him. he really is just a freak of nature.
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Nov 15, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, but I remember Margarito walking through everything Cotto hit him with too, and I seem to remember Cotto landing much cleaner on Marg than last night. Then Marg went and got decimated by Mosley.
Say what you want about Margarito, but plaster wraps don’t help your chin.
My thought on the Marg Mosley fight not the hand wrap stuff (cause we all know that story) is that by the time Marg was in the ring he was mentaly still with the wraps. He knew either he was going to be found guilty and have to appear innocent or was innocent and was worried he could be about to lose his boxing licence for something he didn’t know about.
Punch resistance is mental as much as physical. Mosley hits hard but if the wrap contriversy hadn’t happenend and everything was legal Marg would of been there all nightm and it could of been a good fight.
"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
There’s no doubt he was distracted. He also DID have a hard time making weight. That’s not BS or anything, he was having trouble and we’d heard that long before the wraps ever came up.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 18, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
and Martinez is a very live dog, IMO
And I LOVE P-Will.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting Thought experiment
So I think PBF has massive problems with Pwill, but not for style reasons. Simply put, the man is just too damn tall. PBF will not be able to shoulder roll Pwill’s punches because the big man will literally be punching over his shoulder. Not being able to use one of your signature defensive moves is a big problem that I don’t know if even Floyd can overcome.
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 15, 2009 5:36 AM EST up reply actions
ya maybe i was a little harsh on cotto … i think cottos just past prime but not shot. nothing should be taken away from this win for pac 2nite … that being said i really hope cotto retires. hes given us great fights he himself has nothing left to prove and i dont wanna see him get hurt, anyone else? am i being alittle over zealous?
pbf manny has to happen … theres just too much money involved for it not to, right!?!? i hope the ppv does at leasr 1.4 mill and both camps agree on a 50/50 split
Good article.
I wish we still had the picks contest going, though.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
me too
I quite enjoyed it. Honestly, if anyone wants to take on the task of compiling, I’ll re-start it fresh in January and we’ll do a whole year. Takers? I loved doing it, and I wasn’t even that good at it. jrok and Matt were smoking the field.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 AM EST up reply actions
Super down like a clown for that one
Sign me up for that one!
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 15, 2009 5:26 AM EST up reply actions
not surprised actually
armstrong always has been boxing forgotten champion and the most underrated fighter of all time. i read a great ring magazine article years and years ago on this fact. i’ll try and find it and post it here. he achieved what manny is doing now, on in a much better era of fighters. its really mind blowing when you think about it. I’m amazed at what manny is doing, but for armstrong to do in that era……wow. just wow. id argue armstrong as the greatest fighter ever over robinson anyday.
as for boxrec, i never actually looked at their top 100 of all time. their ratings in general are rather weird. always have been. case in point, i remember when valuev first won the wba title they had him ranked #1 at heavyweight. nufff said.
@mikefareri on twitter.
I am
He is Bert Sugar’s #2 boxer of all time. I have been told that he knows a little bit about boxing or something….
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
i think hes the best of all time.
im considering the source its coming from.
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Nov 15, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
damn man
manny is as best as it gets but cotto is a real warrior props for both especially cotto who took a beating
Manny fans, be careful what you wish for
Manny vs Floyd IS indeed the fight that needs to be made. I mean there is no other fight for either of them at the moment.
You can make an argument that Floyd or Manny can take on the winner of Berto/Mosely but that’s not what the fans want.
I wanna see Floyd vs Manny for other reasons though.
I wanna see it happen because I am one of the few that consider Floyd an all time great and actually, the greatest.
Watching last nights fight only assured me even more of the ease Floyd would have with Manny’s aggressive nature.
As well all know, Floyd is a defensive counter punching genius.
See, Manny’s awkward attack from all cylinder style will definitely take most boxers off guard, but Money is unlike most boxers. He would have a field day countering Manny’s wild style. And Floyd is someone you CAN NOT train for.
Like Manny, no sparring partner can get you ready for what you see in the ring. But with Floyd, he just has those things you can’t teach. He has something you’re born with. He’ll make Manny fight his fight. He’ll frustrate Manny as Manny would try desperately to connect on his punches as the rest of the world does what they usually do, think Foyd is running and not wanna engage.
But Floyd would do what he usually does . . . not give a shit what you wanna see.
He would dance around Manny, pick and pop his spots, get out the way and smile as the crowd boos.
Manny will look at the ref and wonder, “What the hell is this? Why do I have to chase him around?”
And Floyd will continue to smile throughout the fight and most likely end up with a usual outstanding accuracy rating and the win.
The crowd will complain along with Manny and Roach, and Floyd will again remind the world of boxing that the idea is to hit and not get hit despite the crowds desire to watch them fight toe to toe.
They’ll say he ran away. They’ll say, he picked on the smaller guy. They’ll say he should have fought Mosley and so on.
And after all is said and done . . . Floyd still wouldn’t get the respect he desires but he would still be undefeated and still make loads of cash, the things that he truly wants most
Oh and let's not forget about how great those 24/7 episodes would be
Especially with the Mayweathers heated affair with Roach.
No fight with Manny Pacquiao is easy.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 15, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
idk i think manny will win on points much like how oscar was doing for about 4-5 rounds. oscar threw a shit load of worthless shots while PBF blocked or evaded them all and threw maybe one punch. pacquiao will do the same, but he’s not old or shot so he’ll be able to keep that up for 12 rounds and win a decision
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oscar is a fundamental fighter who fought a hell of a fight against Money
Manny is a wild storm that no one seems to be able to stop, unless you’re as gifted as Floyd
so what? manny would still be winning points wailing away on mayweather, and unlike oscar he can sustain that attack. mayweather can’t KO pacquiao, so i don’t understand why you are so sure that pacman has zero chance against mayweather
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Because what you see in "wailing away"
I see as Manny failing away. He’ll throw loads of punches and Floyd will make him miss loads of times
yeah but the difference is what YOU see doesn’t matter, what the judges will see does. i’m not saying its the correct decision, but that’s exactly what will happen. mayweather’s 2 punches won’t matter to the judges after a 10 punch manny combo.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Floyd dominated Oscar in that fight. I have no idea how that was scored a split D, it seemed more based on crowd cheering then actual punches connecting.
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 15, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
yeah to us hardcore fans/observers, but oscar was winning points by doing what he was doing. mayweather laid back let oscar wail away on him, and landed his 2 laser accurate shots. that doesn’t win points with the judges
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
yeah but the difference is those guys aren’t unloading on mayweather. a majority of folks believe that mayweather lost to castillo for the same reason. to beat mayweather you just have to be active.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
If you truly believe to beat Mayweather, you have to be active
I highly suggest you watch the Floyd Mayweather Jesus Chavez fight once more.
If you haven’t seen it before, I’ll send ya the link below.
Man, just watching it again gives me goose bumps.
And Chavez threw WAY more than Manny would throw
http://www.boxingrepublic.com/2009/07/21/floyd-mayweather-jr-vs-jesus-chavez-video-full-fight/
To beat Mayweather you have to make him second-guess himself, I believe. I’ve seen two guys do it: Oscar and Castillo. I thought Castillo narrowly won the first fight, and Oscar had Floyd reeling mentally with his jab until he decided, “Enough of this jab!” Oscar giving up the jab against Floyd probably cost Oscar a whole lot more money. When you get Floyd out of that zone where he’s just moving and reacting and doing his thing, you can get him to lose himself a bit. It’s not easy (one guy has done it for an entire fight, ever), but if anyone has the tools to do it now, it’s Pacquiao.
But it probably won’t happen, as Floyd continues to cling to his perfect record so he can always go, “BUT SUGAR RAY ROBINSON LOST FIGHTS AND I NEVER LOST A FIGHT SO HOW CAN HE BE BETTER THAN ME ‘CAUSE HE LOST AND I DIDN’T SO I’M BETTER”
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
good lord
ok how about this: do you think castillo beat him or not?
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 15, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t think he dominated the second, but felt he clearly won. Castillo had Floyd really hesitant at many points in the first fight. He adapted in the second one and made it clear in that fight that he was the better fighter.
I’ll say this: We’re at a great point in boxing where there are people very strongly on the side of one man or the other in a potential huge-money matchup, and not just out of loyalty as fans, but as believers in their style being the one that wins the matchup.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
He very clearly won a 7-5 decision in the second
Every round of that fight was decisive, but much like the Oscar fight, he lost the rounds he took off. I also think Money-Oscar was a clear 8-4 decision. It doesn’t mean it was a close fight though. Mayweather dominated the rounds he won, and he took 4 rounds off.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I think it’s safe to say that both Money May and his camp watched Manny vs Cotto – and it only made them more committed to stay away from Pacquiao. He’s a living, breathing death knell to Mayweather’s precious perfect record. Mayweather will keep telling anyone who’s interested that he is still the #1 boxer in the world, but behind all that blustering, there is no way he will put on his gloves to fight Pac.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Nov 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
You must be crazy
As I watched the fight, it only assured me of a much easier fight for Mayweather.
Manny was so off balanced throughout his domination of Cotto, but unlike Cotto . . . Floyd would have flourished at all those opportunities
I see as Manny failing away
This made me wince! You simply do not hit with accuracy and precision the way manny does if you throw uncontrollably. Manny throws very quickly and very effectively. He’s extremely different as a boxer compared to Mayweather but you seem to think that because Maywether looks neater and more composed he is miles better.
I would pick Mayweather in this fight, but only just, and give Pac a great chance of beating him. Mayweather isn’t nearly as untouchable as you think he is. No offense but you sound like you would pick Floyd over Vladimir Klitschko.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 15, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Vitali
I kid, I kid . . .
I just believe in Floyd’s natural abilities, sorry.
But Manny DOES throw wild punches and leaves himself wide open a whole lot. Floyd DOES make fighters pay for that and doesn’t leave himself open
Which version of Manny are you talking about? As far as I’ve seen Manny only throws like that when he’s hurt someone or he’s getting into a war. There will never be a war in a Mayweather fight. If Mayweather gets hit hard by Pacquiao and is shaken by it his countering ability, brilliant most of the time, will all but disappear.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 15, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Floyd
will have a hard time doing his ‘this guy isn’t worth my time’ routine with Pac.
"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams
Already Worth his time
omg omg omg omg Negotiations already going down! Yes I will post this link in every thread….
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content6228.html?PHPSESSID=2e033710d09262fdc4f492a31a6956c1
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 15, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to think of things a different way. The closest approximation to Manny of Floyd’s resume (in terms of speed and stance) is Zab Judah. Judah gave Mayweather problems. Manny is faster, stronger and more mentally stable than Zab.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I disagree
Oscar lost the fight with Trinidad even if it was him who was hitting Tito because he’s been running around and not fighting. The judges gave the fight to the more agressive fighter. And the same case could also happen. But if that does happen, it will also be the greatest disappointment of the decade.
by cozmicfeelings on Nov 19, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
On another note
Manny isn’t the only Filipino boxer out there.
Let’s be glad Z Gorres is in stable condition following Friday’s collapse.
alright!
Great to hear.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Leaning towards Pac
Looking forward to the fight: the best offensive boxer (Pacquiao) vs the best defensive pugilist (Mayweather).
Two years ago, i would favor Mayweather with a UD victory . . however, now, with momentum on Pac’s side (KO or TKOs in his last 4 fights against bigger opponents), i now look forward to him winning either by split decision or by KO.
Keys will be: (1)Power shots from awkward angles (not the straight line shots that defensive specialists pick on) . . both right and left hand i.e. Mayweather has never been dazed with his excellent defense, however, it only takes a couple of good power shots (Pac will get his moments) and we may finally know the extent of Floyd’s brilliance or his downfall; (2) Pac Monster has already been in wars that will serve him well when the going gets tough e.g. future hall of famers Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Cotto (including common opponents Hatton and Oscar . . both of which were blasted by Pac! Interestingly, Hatton gave a couple of difficult rounds against Mayweather and past-prime Oscar almost having a win. Granted that Mayweather easily beat Marquez – the betting odds were correct “4:1 favorite” from the slow moving/bulk up Mexican fighter who was unsuccessful moving up two weight classes); (3) Mayweather camp potentially under-estimate the Pac-man (e.g. one dimensional fighter, no skills, has been beaten/ko’d, can be cut, using enhancing substance a favorite of the Mayweather’s likely because they are using it themselves, pick your potential excuses, etc) – they will get a suprise. The hubris of "0″ defeat may prove an illusion. Just like we see in basketball, football, some teams go “0 losses” during elimination and then meeting up with a team with a few defeats early on but won the last 4 games. “Boom” – the team with immaculate record during elimination got beat on the play-offs or finals against a hungry/focused/determined foe with momentum on his side.
Its good to have strong views from either side. That will ensure this fight will be a tremendous commercial success.
Will Mayweather’s defensive wizardry be too much for the Pac Man? Will Floyd be able to glide/move, use effectively his height/reach advantage and hit his accurate pot shots all night? or Will Pac Monster and his current momentum (with the eye for history) be the blitzkreig that smashes the aura of Floyd’s invincibility? and will Pac with his power shots in awkward angles together with right timing get to sneak past Money may’s defense and create a KO? That will be answered, hopefully (i.e. since this fight has not yet been finalized) May 13th! Lets get this on . .
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
