Pacquiao opens as betting favorite over Mayweather for fight that doesn't yet exist

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 2:48 AM EST in News Analysis Comment 66 comments

The fight the world wants to see is Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr., and we all know that. The handicappers in Vegas know it, too. Art Manteris, the vice president of sports book operations for Station Casinos, opened a line with Pacquiao as an 8-5 favorite, and that has already moved down a bit.

Several $20,000 bets were put down on Mayweather, forcing the line down to 7-5 in the early going, said Art Manteris, the casino operator’s vice president of sports book operations.

"It’s been pretty decisive in the early going," Manteris said. "I think I made the line a little too high but that’s the nature of the business."

Manteris said he made Pacquiao the favorite based largely on the public perception of his big win over Cotto. Most of the early bets, he said, came from professional handicappers, who thought the line was too high.

The same article from Tim Dahlberg of the Associated Press quotes Mayweather from one of his interviews recently, and I'm sorry, but look, this is ridiculous:

"Tell Manny Pacquiao to be his own man and stop letting everyone, including his loudmouth trainer, talk for him," Mayweather said. "I am my own boss, speak for myself and tell it like it is. If Manny Pacquiao wants to fight me, all he has to do is step up to the plate and say it himself."

Remember when Floyd was getting shredded by freaking R.A. the Rugged Man, and all he said was, "Boxing doesn't work like that!" and "I don't decide who I fight!" He has bosses when that suits him. He doesn't when he feels like sounding fearless. It's just hilarious that he either doesn't expect people to notice these inconsistencies, or he himself doesn't notice them.

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option27’s head is going to explode when he reads this

NO RESPECT I TELL YA, NO RESPECT AT ALL

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Nov 17, 2009 2:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

ha

yes it is. Option loves him some PBF.

"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams

by lcollins1 on Nov 17, 2009 3:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not the only one

Several $20,000 bets were put down on Mayweather, forcing the line down to 7-5 in the early going, said Art Manteris, the casino operator’s vice president of sports book operations.

I don’t care about the respect that average gamblers give Floyd, I care about the respect of knowledgeable boxing fans.

I knew he would be the underdog but why do I care?

Oh I know, cause this just means I have to bet less to make more money on Floyd when he does what he does!

by Option27 on Nov 17, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would you make early odds on public perception?

Causal bets happen closer to the event….why don’t you just try to handicap the match?

by waldo47 on Nov 17, 2009 3:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

why would I (or anyone) take that straight up if I can get better odds in vegas (see above) ?

by ryanwk628 on Nov 17, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that was supposed to be to the comment below

by ryanwk628 on Nov 17, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I got $50 on Pac Man via paypal if anyones interested?

HUSTLE MADE ENT. NEW TRACK...CHECK FOR IT...NOTHING BUT THAT KILLA CALI FIRE FO SHO!!! http://www.myspace.com/jayoh1ne

by Gorditoe1 on Nov 17, 2009 5:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It was the same when Floyd was getting shredded by Kenny....

All he would say then was “you’ll have to ask Al Haymon, I don’t know….”

Get a grip, Floyd. If I can get better than evens, I’ll be having my house on Floyd, and I don’t even own my house.

BUT as much as I think he’ll win the fight, I really don’t like him as a person. He’s hypocritical, arrogant and out of touch with the world. In fact, I think I might just pity him a bit.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Lines are all over the map

I’ve also heard about one Vegas line where Floyd is a 1.5-1 favorite, and one where they’re almost dead even (Floyd -115, Pac +100). There will be so much action on this fight if it happens that it won’t matter if the line starts off wrong.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2009 8:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Have you got a link to that line?

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, more specifically, the second one you mentioned?

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

It was a live line from a small Vegas casino, IIRC, that someone was talking about on another board.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Nov 17, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This looks a scam to me.

Station Casinos are going broke.

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_13800981

They say they will refund any bets if the fight isn’t made by the end of 2010, but they might not even exist by the end of 2010, so who will you get your money back from? Unless the laws in the US are different to those here, this looks like a classic move to raise a little bit more money just before the bankruptcy, which will then disappear when the company get’s its protection from having to pay back debts, etc.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 9:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to Planet Mayweather. Leave your common sense and logic at the door.

by lhasafi on Nov 17, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is how you start the ball rolling.. Just STAY TUNED.......

It’s just hype to build the fight at this point. I suggest everybody stay tuned. This is the mental game from the promoters to force the fight… They can smell the sharks, so the bait is in the water.

by Haans Bishop on Nov 17, 2009 9:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Which part is the mental game from the promoters? A line being created in Vegas, or Floyd Mayweather saying something dumb again?

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you mind popping over to FB, please?

Many thanks… :)

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vegas research at its best!

Just research to see what the streets are saying so the promoters can establish a middle grown for negotiating since this fight is being deemed as the fight that fans want to see. and I’m one of them. This is just a way that they will establish who is the “Champ” and who is the" Peoples " champ. And next will be the numbers that were generated for the PPV and the comparison of the two. You know how instrumental VEGAS is in these types of HUGE events. The house always wins.

by Haans Bishop on Nov 17, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

questions

1. Do you expect Mayweather to trash-talk and insult Pacquiao in the run-up to this fight, as he did against De La Hoya and Hatton (but didn’t do so much against Marquez)?

2. If so, what kind of trash talk will he use?

3. If so, how will Pacquiao react?

I have my own ideas about all this, but was curious to see what other people thought. It occurs to me that no Pacquiao opponent has ever really insulted him in the run-up to a fight, at least not in recent memory.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

1. Do you expect Mayweather to trash-talk and insult Pacquiao in the run-up to this fight, as he did against De La Hoya and Hatton (but didn’t do so much against Marquez)?

2. If so, what kind of trash talk will he use?

I expect he’ll trash-talk him pretty big in the way he did Marquez. “He’s too small, he’s not that good, etc.” but then will occasionally say “Manny Pacquiao is a hell of a fighter, but I’m better.”

3. If so, how will Pacquiao react?

“I fight for the fans and I am looking forward to this fight,” and then Freddie Roach will call all the Mayweathers turds.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So here’s my take. If Mayweather does #2, then Pacquiao will react with #3, no doubt. Stuff like that isn’t going to bother him. Pacquiao is far too confident in his own abilities to be thrown off by Floyd insulting his abilities.

But Mayweather is really serious about wanting to get into Pacquiao’s head, he can pull it off by insulting something that Pacquiao cares deeply about. The one thing that Pacquiao truly holds dear and considers sacred is his patriotism. If Floyd insults the Philippines and the Filipino people, then Manny will react. And it’s unclear to me whether that will help or hurt Manny in the fight, but I would lean toward the latter. And I think there’s better than a 50% chance that Floyd will do it.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mayweather: “The Filipinos don’t know anything about boxing. I haven’t lost a fight and Pacquiao has, so they can’t count either. Marquez beat Pacquiao twice. Pacquiao is one-dimensional and too small to have a chance at beating me. Nobody gives me any respect. Ray Robinson lost fights, so I’m better than him. My daddy got shot. I am a superstar. This is just a business to me. I am a businessman. I love boxing again. I am the greatest boxer in history. My body is breaking down. I am in the best shape of my life. Please love me. Fuck all y’all.”

Pacquiao: “I fight to make people happy.”

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Nov 17, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs

rec'd

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In all reality, most of em don't

They just think Manny is great at anything he does, whether it’s singing or starring in ‘Wapakman’

by Option27 on Nov 17, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s not true. There are many, many knowledgeable and serious Philipino students of boxing, partly because that country has a proud world class boxing tradition that dates back to the turn of the 20th century, including guys like Pancho Villa, Flash Elorde and Ceferino Garcia. If you’re just going by people the Internet, well you could say that about a lot of fight fans from every background. For instance, I have witnessed boatloads of rabid Floyd Mayweather Jr. fans on the internet who know jack shit about boxing, and couldn’t tell a left hook from a right cross. I mean, I have heard some shockingly ignorant, almost childlike things on forums from guys who say they are Floyd Mayweather fans. I suspect many are simply fans of his celebrity, not of his boxing or of Boxing in general.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Nov 17, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do think a lot of em know about boxing

But I’m just sayin . . .

MOST DON’T

by Option27 on Nov 17, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of an asinine thing to say then. Most people in the world don't know anything about boxing.

Way more Filipinos know about boxing than Americans, by percent.

Boxing is a big deal in PI, while most people couldn’t care less in the States.

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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by staylost on Nov 17, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not only that

But when a star athlete is worshipped the way Manny is, it naturally drives up interest in the sport, with people running out to learn everything they can. I would bet that boxing gyms are a good investment in the Phillipines right now, and are filling up as fast as they can build them. He is building a new generation of Pinoy boxers just by his existence.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Nov 17, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

I don't agree

by Option27 on Nov 17, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry, but boxing is a big deal in the Philippines.

And has been historically.

Not so much in the US.

It is a culture thing.

But believe what you want.

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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by staylost on Nov 17, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Both guys’ fan bases are equally annoying.

The Filipino fans will be more knowledgeable in a generation though. Can’t say I have the same hope for American fans.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Mayweather said this, I would gain respect for him.

*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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by staylost on Nov 18, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not option? Is it that Mayweather Mayweathered his Mayweather Mayweather?

"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey

by Drunken cutman on Nov 18, 2009 5:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)

by BrianBrock on Nov 18, 2009 6:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll withhold judgment until I’ve seen Wapakman

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am going to do my best to get a copy. Should be funny stuff!

"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey

by Drunken cutman on Nov 17, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The trash talk will be easy for Mayweather. It will start with a couple pop shots about him singing but Pacman would come back with the dancing with the stars show. It’s going to be fun. But Mayweather will end it all by saying that there is no blue print to beat him since he never loss but Pacman has. When he decides to mention that phrase then its serious business… Its on for real.. FUCK the press … He will probably be the only fighter to really get under Pacmans skin and we might see a different side of him.

by Haans Bishop on Nov 17, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing you just said would bother Pacquiao in the slightest. The only way for Mayweather to get under his skin is to say things that are genuinely reprehensible. The question is whether he’ll stoop to that level.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reprehensible.

That’s our Word Of The Day!!

*Bells, whistles, buzzers…..

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s nice. It really isn’t that unusual of a word though.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed. Not nearly as unusual as conglobulate. A word appearing in the original Johnson’s dictionary menaing the process of hundreds of Sparrows submerging themselves in water and forming a massive ball.

Not remotely relevant to nearly anything at all but who would pass up a chance to mention something so crazy?

"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey

by Drunken cutman on Nov 17, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't saying it was.

I was simply expressing my appreciation. I read the word and thought, “Just like JK Rowling, that guy put that there because it was EXACTLY what he meant.”

It’s a good word. It just struck me as being entirely appropriate, that’s all. :)

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Every body has buttons that can be pushed. The question will be whether or not Pacman will display it or just dismiss them. Don’t get me wrong I like both fighters but when you’re trying to promote a fight shit starts to flying, it doesn’t matter who you are.

by Haans Bishop on Nov 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Mayweather really wants to get under Pacquiao’s skin he should insult the Fillipines. However I don’t think he will go that far. It’s not really the image he seems to be going for right now.

"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey

by Drunken cutman on Nov 17, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn’t long ago that he accused Emanuel Steward of being an Uncle Tom.

I don’t think Floyd would do something like that in a calculated way, but when he gets piqued he sometimes forgets his better judgment. Though he might also end up benefiting from it.

by taco pal on Nov 17, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bringing up the Fillipines would get at least a rection from Pac. If mayweather gets under his skin and Pac comes out angry he will probably go back to a one handed loaded up fighter, it would make it easier for Floyd to counter. But i dont see him going that low like you said.
He got away with it with Oscar since Oscar isn’t much liked by alot of mexican fans but since Manny is an idol and loved not only in his home country but alot of places around the world, Floyd would shoot himself in the foot and never be liked as a person.

"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone

by sigidy on Nov 17, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think we’ll see Pacquiao ever revert to being one handed again. He’s learned to trust his right hook so much more now that he leads with it, sets up with it. Against Floyd, he’ll probably still try to punctuate his combinations with his massive left hand, but believe me, that right hook will come into play. If Floyd does manage to get under Pacquiao’s skin, and infuriate him, there’s no better guy to help Manny deal with that, use that to his advantage than psychologist/coach Roach. Expect Freddie to use Pacquiao’s anger to fuel one more, possibly final, killer training camp. Manny’s gonna have to pick up a whole new set of moves. To win against Mayweather, I think Camp Pacquiao’s tactics need to be re-tooled a bit, as Floyd is a completely different fighter from the last three guys Manny has faced. But for Floyd to beat Manny, well…I hate to say it, but Floyd just needs to be Floyd.

by Areglado on Nov 17, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your right about Roach and with Manny’s right hand improving and being very important against Floyd, with righty vs lefty plus with a guy who likes to shoulder role the right will come from a diffrent angle and set up for the left if not knock Floyd back a step.
My comment was more a worrie than anything. We haven’t seen Pac come into a fight angry or under to much pressure. He smiles walking toward the ring and even while in there. If he is affected in any negative way it could make him revert back to the old faithfull and look to over load that left, or as you said it could get him more focused. We wont know how he will react or even if Floyd will try to realy get to him.

"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone

by sigidy on Nov 18, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd has named names plenty of times

“Remember when Floyd was getting shredded by freaking R.A. the Rugged Man, and all he said was, “Boxing doesn’t work like that!” and “I don’t decide who I fight!” He has bosses when that suits him. He doesn’t when he feels like sounding fearless. It’s just hilarious that he either doesn’t expect people to notice these inconsistencies, or he himself doesn’t notice them."

You’re taking that quote out of context man. The point Floyd was making in the interview with R.A. was that the money is what determines who he fights, not some mythical “boss”. Floyd is not afraid to call out fighters. He does it all the time. Just youtube all of his post fight interviews and you can see him calling out all kinds of people. At the end of the day though, he will take whatever fight will make him the most money. I’ll say it again, if the money is right Floyd will fight anybody. People can say Floyd ducks people, but the one thing he doesn’t duck is dollar bills. Pay the man if you want him to fight Pacman.

by erod on Nov 17, 2009 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’ll say it again, if the money is right Floyd will fight anybody.

You know he had an offer from Margarito that equaled what he got to fight Baldomir, right? Floyd has since inflated that number when he talks about it, but it was the same.

Pay the man if you want him to fight Pacman.

This is a complete non-issue. He’ll be paid more to fight Pacquiao than he’ll be paid to fight anyone else in the sport. There’s no reason for this fight to not happen other than unreasonable demands from one side or the other, which may or may not indicate a desire to avoid the fight.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 17, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know he had an offer from Margarito that equaled what he got to fight Baldomir, right? Floyd has since inflated that number when he talks about it, but it was the same.

Ok, so what? I thought you were going to say he got less. My deal is this, wherever he will make the MOST money is where he will fight. If it’s equal, then all we can do is speculate on what the reasoning is. I’ll believe that Mayweather ducks people as soon as I see him accept a lesser offer.

This is a complete non-issue. He’ll be paid more to fight Pacquiao than he’ll be paid to fight anyone else in the sport. There’s no reason for this fight to not happen other than unreasonable demands from one side or the other, which may or may not indicate a desire to avoid the fight.

You’re right. I can’t really see him making more money fighting anybody else. And like I said, I have yet to see Mayweather turn down more money for less. As far as what is reasonable or not, well we all know that differs from fighter to fighter. I think the Cotto/Pacman PPV numbers will eventually dictate how this will turn out. If it does more then Mayweather-Marquez, then this fight will probably NOT happen because this will give Arum the upper hand and he will want the lion share to go to Pacquio which Mayweather will NOT go for—ever. If Mayweather-Marquez does more, then it will probably hinge on how lopsided Mayweather wants the split to go his way and if Arum will go for it.

by erod on Nov 17, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A lesser offer? Ok then....

Oscar De La Hoya Rematch; = $20-30m (my estimate)

Margarito post-Cotto; = at least $20m (again, my estimate)

False and insincere retirement = Zero.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

rec'd

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)

by BrianBrock on Nov 17, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lol….WTF does “your estimate” mean?

I’m talking about REAL offers and negotiations…not made up shit.

by erod on Nov 17, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He WAS offered an Oscar rematch, and he WAS offered the Margarito fight post-Cotto.....

I was simply saying that the money I mentioned was my estimate, but I don’t think you’ll find many who disagree entirely with my estimates…..

in fact I was certain that the Oscar fight would have raised at least 20m for Floyd, I’m sure I’ve seen that figure somewhere, along with the upper bracket estimate of 30m…

The Margarito fight was definitely offered.

Anyway, it was the money involved I was estimating, not the fact that the fights were there to be taken, and Floyd would have made more money fighting than retiring, therefore, guess what???!!! HE TOOK THE LESSER OPTION.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Nov 17, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd-Oscar II was ready to go. They had the press tour set up. I still believe the collective anti-anticipatory groan of the media and a large percentage of the fanbase played a hand in getting Floyd to “retire” at that point. And then they set up Oscar-Manny shortly thereafter, and the rest is history.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Nov 18, 2009 3:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thats not what I meant

When talking about the lesser option I’m talking about one opponent vs another opponent, not one opponent vs retirement (i.e. Baldomir over Margarito). The whole thing was about Mayweather “ducking” people. And SC is on point with the backlash as a reason why he didn’t take the DLH rematch. And he already beat DLH once, convincingly, so for him to not take the rematch doesn’t equal “ducking”. Besides, you can’t duck somebody you already beat.

So my point again, given that he actually wants to still box, Mayweather will fight the opponent who will net him the most money.

by erod on Nov 18, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And I bet that retirement would have been permanent and real had Mr.IRS not come-a-knocking on Mayweather’s “paid for” house.

by erod on Nov 17, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You may well be the only user of this site who thinks that Mayweather’s retirement was much more than a clever marketing ploy. A returning champion ready to rout pretenders is very marketable.

"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey

by Drunken cutman on Nov 17, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs