Miguel Cotto will fight on, but not against Margarito
by Scott Christ on Nov 18, 2009 4:40 AM EST
in Boxing Commentary & Opinion
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Miguel Cotto is a terrific fighter. Overlooked in his loss to Manny Pacquiao will inevitably be that fact, because boxing fans so often have such short-sighted views of the fighters that populate this demanding, glorious sport. While touting the idea that an undefeated record isn't everything it's cracked up to be, the collective is also too fast to pull their trigger on a fighter being washed-up, finished, irreparably damaged, or whatever you might want to call it.
Miguel Cotto isn't shot. Is he knocked down? Yes, but he's going to get back up.
Doug Fischer at The Ring posted an article on Sunday about Cotto's professionalism, and his desire to keep fighting. Our own Brickhaus posted something similar in tone, looking at Cotto's future options immediately after the loss to Pacquiao.
Cotto, 29, says he'll be taking a break from boxing. He deserves it. Miguel Cotto, as he says, fights the best. When he moved up to welterweight, he did so with a fight against crafty, unbeaten fellow Puerto Rican Carlos Quintana, and he stopped him with a body shot. Zab Judah was the next good name on the hitlist, in 2007. Cotto beat Shane Mosley. And in July 2008, the Margarito fight happened. Earlier this year, Cotto took on Joshua Clottey, a welterweight nobody else wanted to fight at the time.
So what really is next?
Bob Arum says the Mosley-Berto winner could be next for Cotto, but I'd doubt that. True, if Mayweather-Pacquiao materializes, the Mosley-Berto winner only has a few options himself. A great fight could lead to a rematch, but otherwise, you're looking at Cotto and Clottey as potential opponents, maybe Paul Williams at 154 pounds (I am no longer convinced Williams can make 147, as he hasn't in a good while now).
Arum also keeps talking about Antonio Margarito. Miguel Cotto has taken the hard line on that one: No Margarito rematch. While Margarito's team thinks Cotto can be lured by money, I don't think he can. And Arum can keep telling us that we all want to see Margarito-Cotto II, but again, there are a lot of us that have no interest in seeing Margarito against anyone.
I think a lot of it boils down to this: In boxing, you are putting a certain amount of trust in your opponent to be square with you, to not put you in any more danger than the sport itself presents naturally. Could Cotto ever trust Margarito to do that? He's stated clearly he thinks he loaded his wraps when they fought the first time. There's no way Miguel Cotto can trust Margarito on that level. Cotto has children. Cotto has a family. He's got a lot of life to live when he's done boxing. Do you want to risk all that for a payday with a guy whose reputation is so tarnished that, frankly, I don't think it's even that big of a fight anymore?
Would YOU risk it?
I wouldn't. I don't think Cotto will, either. If Margarito does get his license back in California in February, expect Bob Arum to have some difficulty finding anyone other than journeymen and "nothing to lose" guys to fight him, at least for anything remotely resembling a split they'll want. Other promoters aren't going to want to risk their stars against him either. Maybe for 80-20 and a very thorough check of the wrapping process, though...
Margarito has a tough row to hoe if California lets him return. And even if they do and Cotto is offered more money than the fight is even worth, don't expect to see that rematch. Ever. And I think we're better off with professionals like Miguel Cotto not wavering on issues like this, too.
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great article
i love cotto… He still has the best resume at welterweight (Mosley, Quintana, Judah, Clottey) and if he can add a few more pelts, he can secure a IBHOF spot.
Miguel Cotto has been my favourite boxer of the last 6 or 7 years hes really the reason i became so in love with the sport, wasnt afraid to fight anyone never ducked anyone and you could see his huge heart in a lot of his wars over the years, guys like Cotto and Pacman is what the sport needs more of, if Cotto does return to the sport which it looks like he will be ii really hope he gets a top trainer, Jose had no fucking clue what to do in there and Cotto cant go on just training himself if he wants to be considered elite again anyway just my two cents
Margarito's loaded gloves.....
I can see why Cotto wouldn’t to fight Margarito again……but my question is: Why is it that Nazim Richardson is the only guy that catches these things (Hopkins-Trinidad circa 2001)
Larry Merchant IS God...
by El_Mas_Chingon on Nov 18, 2009 8:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What do you mean about Hopkins Trinidad?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Trinidad’s hands were wrapped illegally. Too much padding and tape and then they were dipping all of that in ice water. When the wraps dried, they became very hard. The Trinidad team’s argument was, IIRC, “We always do this!” The Hopkins camp argued, “Well, not tonight.”
I think Tito had to have his hands re-wrapped twice before the Hopkins side was satisfied, and then Tito threw a fit and almost pulled out of the fight. No one ever made too big a fuss of it, really. Who knows why?
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 18, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Do you have any links to this info?
I’d like to read about it. I could google it myself, but I’d rather go with a source you trust.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Sherlock Naz caught Tito’s corner trying to put too much tape on the skin
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Nazim again?!
and from what he said in his other interview, he picked the signs from the Cotto fight…
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
The man is Kojak x Columbo. He is an extemely paranoid dude, and that’s EXACTLY the kind of man you need in your corner in this dangerous sport. I personally think he’s changing the Boxing culture in a really positive way. It seems like the sport has gotten increasingly loosey-goosey in their attitude towards what goes on in a dressing room, and hopefully what Naz did in the Margarito fight will force everyone to do their jobs more diliegently.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I agree
never saw Kojak, but seen most of the Columbos…Peter Falk = legend.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
also much stronger circumstantial evidence
than just Cotto’s face after the <argarito fight. I thought Marg was likelier to have loaded than not before, but from Nazim’s observations and now knowing about him picking it up on the Tito fight, am very much more on that side now. Not sure it’s stand up in court but hey
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
I'd like to see him fight again
BUT, only if he can get someone in his corner that actually gives a shit about his safety and well being. The Pacquio fight should have been stopped by his corner well before the ref stopped it.
This is the second fight where he’s gotten beat up pretty badly. That does have an effect on a fighter. I’m not calling for retirement or anything, but a break will do Cotto some good. Maybe a tune up fight after that just to test the waters. He’s a really good fighter and I like seeing him in action.
If Margarito comes back clean to welter...
What a bunch of bullshit. When we saw Mosley taking illegal substances “without his consent” no one ever said that they didn’t want to see him fight anyone ever again. Same with Trinidad. I gave Mosley the benefit of the doubt because he had the same excuse as Margarito. If you think about it, when Mosley destroyed Margarito he didn’t do so because Margarito’s punches were weaker. In fact he didn’t throw anything, he looked slow, very sluggish and had no stamina considered that he’s a man that throws 1k punches when fights go to distance. We all knew he could take a punch, yet in this fight he looked completely out of it and that has nothing to do with your hands. To me, it seems that he had a terrible training camp. The best outcome for Margarito was that Cotto was beaten this badly. If he plans to come back to welter to prove people wrong and does so, they’ll have to meet again. We all saw what can be done to Cotto and he looked a lot worse against Pacquiao .
I don’t think it’s going to be difficult for him to find opponents, he was offered a fight against old Baldomir in Mexico yet he decided to wait the full year to acknowledge his suspension. This might even cause the opposite effect now that he’s going to be monitored very closely some might go for it more comfortably. I want to see him comeback , either to determine whether his wins were the outcome of cheating or not.
How is it worse? When Mosley admitted to being “misled” into taking BALCO steroids? How is his hand wrappings 100 times worse than the hardening of Tito’s wraps? Use your logic instead of spewing baseless accusations.
There’s no such thing as being misled when it comes to professional athletes. They already know what the consequences are if they get caught, but they never think that they will.
by Haans Bishop on Nov 18, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think what Margarito did was much worse than what Tito did but it was definitely a far worse thing than taking steroids. You don’t seem to understand that loaded gloves can end careers, disable and even kill. PEDs are a big problems in sport but they don’t allow you to carve into your opponents skull.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 4:24 AM EST up reply actions
We all saw what can be done to Cotto and he looked a lot worse against Pacquiao .
Maybe this is because Pacquiao is a much better boxer than Margarito or Cotto.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 18, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Pacquiao is in fact a much more stronger and faster boxer than Cotto with a tremendous punch. My point is that Cotto can be beaten up like he was during the Margarito fight. Even a writer from this site said that his face looked like nothing a normally wrapped hand could do yet we saw Cotto’s face after the beating Pacquiao gave him.
see the oracle that is Nazim's interview in a fanpost on here...
and comments above..
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Sorry, what’s your point?
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
harima not brian
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
it’s a matter of pinciple. the guy could have done a “Billy Collins” on him. it’s miraculous Cotto took the knee which in hindsight was the smartest thing he could have done. Margarito should be banned from the sport. he did everything in his power to damage Mosley and was only stopped b/c he got caught by a sharp-eyed trainer.
I have no desire and will not ever pay, nor watch, nor download, nor whatever a Margarito involved fight. Period. Boxers die every year, without loading their gloves…..whether he cheated in that fight is not the point, at least once, he did the unthinkable in boxing…he loaded his gloves. it is the cardinal sin in this sport. with good reason….look what happened to Collins.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 18, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
My point is that people are conducted by a double moral standard. There have been many cases like his yet not many are talked about like this or gets scrutinized as much as he’s being. Mosley could have badly hurt a guy, remember that he was 38-0 with a ton of KOs and he took steroid. Yet he was never banned and I’m willing to bet you have payed or watched his fights.
Mosley took EPT
Not a steroid. Something that increases endurance, not power. Cheating? Yes, but only because the substance was illegal. Every major boxer out there takes a cocktail of supplements, and 3/4 of them probably don’t know what the hell they’re taking, just whatever their trainers tell them to take.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
BALCO also says he took “The Clear.” It never got publicized much, but that drug was found to not actually be a steroid, or banned.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 18, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
He took Erythropietin, it is considered cheating not only in boxing but in other sports. It should be looked down upon because it gives an edge a big advantage on endurance. Giving the excuse that a boxer doesn’t know what the hell they take only justifies a possible cheating act. Hence why Margarito excuses himself by saying he didn’t know what was on his wraps. It’s a ridiculous excuse but can debatable. Given Mosley’s power he could have done serious damage to an opponent on the later rounds when a normal person’s level of activity decreases because of exhaustion. My point is that people are scrutinizing Margarito to great extents and act like it’s a lesser offense when some other boxer takes advantage or cheats regardless of what they did.
You said steroids. He didn’t take steroids. Even what he took wasn’t steroids. Is it cheating? Yes. But it is not a steroid. People really abuse that word.
And also Mosley was raked over the coals for saying he didn’t take anything or “didn’t know” by a lot of people, and you can throw me in there for what it’s worth. I don’t buy any bullshit story that any high-level athlete comes up with. “Oh I didn’t know what it was” — yeah, of course you didn’t. You’re paid millions of dollars to take care of yourself and don’t explicitly know what’s going into your body? I don’t buy it from Alex Rodriguez, I don’t buy it from Shane Mosley.
Even if you feel as though other fighters aren’t held to the same standards (I disagree, but only in a rather irrelevant way — cheating is cheating, we agree there), do you not think he’s earned the scrutiny? Like it or not, or agree or not, loading the gloves is always going to be considered a hanging offense by most in or around boxing.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Nov 18, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
He did earn the disbelief of the people, what I don’t agree is the level of hypocrisy of people that say that he shouldn’t box anymore and shouldn’t be given a chance when they don’t hold him to the same standards as other boxers who cheated. I did hear those type of comments from Trinidad and Mosley to name the recent ones, but it wasn’t as overwhelming as with Margarito’s case. Where the consensus of most of the people seem to be unfair based on previous cases. An offense should be looked down with the same intensity whether it’s a substance to be more endurance to fatigue or loading your gloves. In the end, both can lead to a tragic consequence.
1. Accusations of hypocrisy are often just a tactic you see from people who just want to change the subject because they know they’re wrong on the merits.
2. An offense should not be looked at “with the same intensity whether it’s a substance to be more endurance to fatigue [sic] or loading your gloves.” That’s simply false as a matter of common sense. The intensity should vary depending on the likelihood that someone will be seriously hurt as a result. Using EPO or wrapping your hands with extra tape raises that likelihood by a relatively small amount, if that, though it might give the boxer an unfair advantage at winning the fight. Putting plaster in your hands is orders of magnitude more serious than that. This ought to be obvious to everyone.
By your logic, Margarito’s actions would have been no less worthy of criticism if he had gone out with cement or razor blades in his gloves. Hey, cheating’s cheating, right? It’s all the same!
You tend to take things way out of context. No one is talking about cement or razor blades on gloves. I’m talking about, the use of EPO and the loading of gloves. Which have a great chance of cause long term effect on the opponent. Using EPO is a very dangerous thing to use in a sport of contact. If it becomes an intense fight, the fighter that has abused a substance to create more endurance has a tremendous advantage in the later rounds. Since the boxer is not going to feel fatigue, he can continue to apply more damage to a fighter that begins to feel the effects of exhaustion. Trinidad also hardened his wrappings it wasn’t just putting extra tape. Don’t get me wrong I feel extremely bad and condemn Margarito for the bad sportsmanship. It’s just a matter of opinion now, I think that Margarito has a ton to prove whether he is to lose or win I don’t care. That’s why I wouldn’t like to see him get dismissed from the sport.
Loading your gloves with secret bullshit is -and has ALWAYS been – the worst, most cardinal sin of professional Boxing. As far as treachery in sport goes, it has no equal, and nothing even comes close. Since gloves were first incorporated into what had traditionally been a bareknuckle contest, there have been accusations (and real instances) of glove tampering, and it makes a mockery of the entire concept of Boxing.
The temptation to secretly doctor you gloves in a way that protects your hands and/or increasing the impact of your punches has always been part of the dark side of Boxing. Jack Dempsey’s early career was haunted with rumors of glove tampering, mostly because the boxing public at large hadn’t seen someone punch the way that Dempsey did, and they had trouble understanding how those punches were so destructive. It was such a public relations nightmare for Dempsey at the time that he consented to have his hands wrapped and gloved inside the ring for his bout with Willard. Fight fixing probably ranks second as far as Boxing dirtiest sins, since it destroys the contest completely and is an act of criminal theft. But it’s not a close second, since it doesn’t generally involve things that will get a man hurt or killed.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
But it’s not a close second, since it doesn’t generally involve things that will get a man hurt or killed.
This should’ve read "doesn’t generally involve things that will get a boxer hurt or killed inside the ring. Often times when the Mob is involved in a fight-fixing scenario, you will get the same rippling effect of intimidation, muscling and “hole-plugging” that comes with a criminal enterprise. It’s also an act of criminal theft on a grand scale, that rolls over into bookies and collections. I’m sure more then a few legs have been broken over a fixed fight… and worse.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
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