Nazim Richardson on Margarito loading his gloves
by toodiesel on Nov 18, 2009 8:10 AM EST
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The difference between Margarito and many other boxers . . . he got caught.
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 18, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That is a disgusting comment. You should honestly be ashamed.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 18, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to tar a bunch of people with a brush.
Why not follow it up with a comment about black people robbing, or German people killing Jews?
"Chris Eubank lost his recent comeback fight on points ... the main one being that he's a total git."
by bazzlad on Nov 18, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse my pessimism
My statement is based on a number of articles and biographies I read in the past.
I’m just talking about boxing. I haven’t read any recent articles or books about theft by African Americans or German murdering any group of people.
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 19, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I defy you to name 10 fighters who we know loaded their gloves in the last 20 years without googling it.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I'm a cynic
To directly answer your question, I do not know 10 fighters that were discovered. I do think there are many boxers (please include professional athletes) that cheat in different ways, not necessarily with loaded gloves. See, my quick response to BrianBrock. I don’t think it is completely far-fetched for me to suggest that boxers in the past have probably cheated. Excuse my cynicism but that’s just how I feel. Not to long ago Oscar De La Hoya whupped Fernando Vargas butt. The boxing commission later discovered he used steroids. Is it safe to question what other ways he probably tried to cheat? Or how many times in the past he has probably cheated in the past?
The sports media crucified Barry Bonds yet enjoyed their fantasy HR season celebrating Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire. I’m sure if I said the only difference between Bonds and McGwire, Sosa and many other baseball players . . . blah, blah, blah . . . who knows what the reaction would have been? Hmmm, it is now 2009, let’s see what time has revealed – the Rocket-Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Andy Pettite, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz etc. Who’s next? Who knows how many other Yankee players are tainted?
This is without Google. A long while back there was a survey conducted with several athletes from a number of sports. The athletes were asked if they knew taking a certain illegal drugs will all but ensure the coveted chamionship, olympic gold medal, the hiesman trophy, etc. AND that drug would take 10 years off their lives would they still take the drug and enjoy the glory of being the best? 90% of the athletes answering anonymously said yes. Now I don’t recall the name of the survey, but the number was roughly above 90%.
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 19, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are different
The consequences for using loaded gloves ie casting one’s hands prior to fighting cannot be compared to taking steroids to hit a baseball a greater distance.
What makes Margarito’s cheating so despicable, so vermin-infested and deserving of the most punitive response is that the nature of his cheating involves endangering and damaging the life of another person.
Don’t lump all these baseball players into the same crew with Margarito, what he did is much worse. Nobody got brain damage as the result of Rocket Roger or A-Roid, but Billy Collins killed himself because Luis Resto ruined his life. And Margarito’s is the same as Resto’s and nothing like Rocket Roger’s.
"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams
by lcollins1 on Nov 19, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lcollins1, I hear you, I agree.
“People look for edges in every sport. We’ve seen it in baseball with the steroids; in football, with the New England coach [Bill Belichick] using video even though he had a great team. When it crosses the line to being an unfair advantage and against the rules, that’s when people really get upset,” – Larry Merchant.
I’m just wondering how many times fighters didn’t have an observant trainer like Nazim or how many other alternate ways there are to load a fighters glove? I don’t know but I think boxing can be suspect.
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 19, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You make the mistake of comparing PEDs to loading the gloves. One is far more severe. You said earlier
The difference between Margarito and many other boxers . . . he got caught.
The word I really take exception to is many.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I take exception to the implication of the comment as a whole, to be honest.
It takes a certain kind of perswon to come on a boxing website, make a comment like that and then try to justify it with an argument that goes pretty much like “Can you prove that every sportsman is clean? Because if you can’t, then they’re all dirty by definition….”
Fuck the baseball analogies, fuck the whole “trying to justify” a comment like the first one on this thread. I am really angry that someone has the audacity to come on here and make a comment like that, amonst the finest group of boxing fans on the internet.
“VeeisAnimated”- please feel free to take your trolling, unacceptable and completely unjustified bullshit back to youtube. I have absolutely no interest in reading any more of what you say. Your general condemnation of the participants of my favourite sport has no place on this site, in my opinion. Were it my site, you’d be banned right now.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 19, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
The word “many” may be out of line. I can definitely own up to that.
As for Chaos100, I don’t know what to say . . . Sorry if you were personally offended, I guess. It’s just my opinion, it may be wrong, misguided, over the top.
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 19, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To paraphrase the late Senator Pat Moynihan, everyone may be entitled to his own opinion, but nobody is entitled to his own facts.
by taco pal on Nov 19, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please enlighten us;
What exactly is your opinion?
That Margarito was in the minority because he got caught?!!!
That there are many fighters out there loading gloves, or using other methods of cheating?
Where are you getting the evidence for this bollocks? Have you got any evidence for the assertion you made, and the implications connected with it? Or have you just thrown it out there in order to get a rise out of people?
If you feel that boxing is so rife with cheats (as you have pretty much expressly stated multiple times on this thread already) then why are you here? Why even pollute this site with your presence if you have such a low opinion of boxers in general, that you feel it acceptable to make generic slurs on the fighters we all respect and admire, with no evidence?
Seriously, head back to youtube, or ESB. I’ve never seen such a despicable comment on this site, and your feeble attempts to justify it simply make the situation worse. “I wasn’t saying they all load gloves, but they all cheat”…. Yeah, ok, we know your views on professional boxers. We, that is the majority of people on this site, actually love the sport and its participants. There is no place for unwarranted vitriol on here.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 19, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"But some boxers have been caught"
. . . I guess I’m a glutton for punishment. That quote is from a L.A. Times titled Cheating has always been part of boxing and MMA. Check it out, it is interesting.
-————————————————
The word I really take exception to is many. – Drunken cutman
The word "many" may be out of line. I can definitely own up to that. – Vee
. . . but they all cheat – Chaos100
To reiterate, I was out of line by using the word “many” but I know I definitely did not use the word all.
Evidence of boxers cheating:
Luis Resto-Panama Lewis. Fernando Vargas. Mike Tyson cheated in ways that could endanger and damage his opponent by using elbows. Holyfield was dirty , George Foreman believed he was one of the dirtiest fighters. Zab Judah. Bernard Hopkins knows all the tricks in the game. Shane Mosley.
As far as my love for boxing? I can’t be a fan of boxing but acknowledge that some boxers cheat to get an edge?
“Gamesmanship is a much better word to use than cheating, You’re trying to win, and sometimes you can play games to ensure you do” -Bert Sugar (source: aforementioned L.A. Times article)
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 20, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Fouling" and "cheating" are two very different things.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 20, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ok, fouls don’t equate to cheating but rabbit punches can seriously endanger and damage a fighter and elbows can cut a fighter really bad.
Here’s a very interesting account concerning Tito Trinidad hand wraps.
“Next time, I’ll definitely have someone in there who knows what they’re doing in looking for that stuff,” -Fernando Vargas about Tito Trinidad
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 20, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's ok. You just continue to try to justify your malicious and unfounded rhetoric.
I’m now convinced you’re simply trolling,and as such will simply treat you with the contempt you deserve.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 20, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not trolling. If he was trolling I would have stepped in. He has overstepped no boundaries in terms of site protocol, which is why I haven’t said or done anything. You disagree with his stance — vehemently — and that’s fine, but he’s broken zero rules.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 20, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some people are just obtuse and don’t deserve an educated reply.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 21, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It takes a great deal more intelligence to deal with the ignorant, the foolish and the obtuse than it does with the clever and reasonable.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 21, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is foolish to argue with a fool…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 21, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a counter saying to every saying.
Example: The early bird catches the worm – Fools rush in.
Scottish people are big on their sayings so I get a lot of pretty funny examples of this!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 22, 2009 6:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He still broke no rules. He said something controversial, but clean. And that’s about the last I want to say about it.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 21, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let it go Vee
I count 8 people that not only disagree, but were offended by your post, since it was an attack on boxing’s image. It was a worse statement than “boxing is dead,” so I can see where the troll argument comes into play.
No need to try to defend a statement that you longer believe was correct and dig a different hole while doing so. It would have been best if you said “some boxers cheat to get an edge” from the beginning. You didn’t, so fine. No point in rehashing your statements until you feel justified in your original statement.
by Polish Rifle on Nov 20, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SC: appreciate the defense.
Polish Rifle: Duly noted, I should have been more cautious with the words I choose and phrasing. Thanks!
When attacked I thought I should defend myself and attempt to clarify with some sort of clear evidence – Bert Sugar, the Trinidad tale. Fin.
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 20, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Veeis, dude...
did you think at all before you wrote that? Even, like a little? Why are you a fan of boxing if you think so many are loading their gloves?
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 18, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He got cheating. Yes, I do think there are many boxers that cheat in different ways, not necessarily with loaded gloves.
I don’t know if that cleared up my statement but that’s my general outlook. I tend to not be surprised when steroid allegations are confirmed. It is what it is.
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 19, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not the most insightful post I’ve ever read. I don’t think there would be this level of outrage in the community if it was a secretly acknowledged fact of life in the sport.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 18, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What an utterly obtuse post…the fact that you try and justify it later on just makes it worse.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 19, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting, thanks for posting.
Long live Mr.Bowen
by ddog28 on Nov 18, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Ring’s latest issue has a GREAT interview with him as of this past month i believe. i read every single word, and he talks about this bit in there as well. i read the article and gained a ton of respect for him and what coaching means to him. one of those rare types that at least seems to be one of the better guys in the business that is hurting.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 18, 2009 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This guy is great. Definitely my favourite trainer, a real expert who has worked with some amazing fighters.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 18, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
agreed, and with staylost
rec’d this clip. Really insightful into the circumstantial evidence from the Cotto fight that he brought up about where Margarito was punching. Liked the way he talked down the way trainers to go back and forth too.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 18, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel the same way. The guy’s a true professional, seems to take a lot of pride in what he does.
"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams
by lcollins1 on Nov 18, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great interview
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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by staylost on Nov 18, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
About Margarito's wraps
Has it been proven that he did this before the Mosley fight? Not that I’m saying his gloves weren’t loaded before, but I think we have to be careful about assuming he was doing this longer than just the Mosley fight before getting proof. I guess its cause I liked Margarito and the way he fought, part of me really wants this just to be a one-fight thing that his trainer talked him into.
by mason_beer on Nov 18, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing has been proven. But if you think it was a one-fight thing that Evil Wizard Capetillo talked gullible, poor Margarito into, I just cannot overstate how unlikely I think that is.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 18, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're being an apologist.
Before the Cotto fight, Margarito…
1. Was a 2:1 underdog.
2. Was considered a good, but not elite welterweight. A loss in that fight would have likely relegated him to “opponent” status.
3. Had no big money fights set up for later
Before the Mosley fight, Margarito…..
1. Was a 4:1 favorite
2. Was considered the best or second-best in the division. A loss in that fight would have kept him ranked right in the same area, since he already beat #3.
3. Had a rematch with Cotto already agreed to in principle, win or lose.
Knowing that he cheated in the Mosley fight, it would be horribly naive to think he wouldn’t have done the same in the Cotto fight. Cheating for the Mosley fight carried very little upside. He already had another money fight in the bag, and essentially the only way he could have screwed that up was to be caught cheating. For the Cotto fight, cheating carried a lot more upside; a spot among the elite, and another big-money fight. It just doesn’t make sense that he would be willing to cheat in the Mosley fight, but wouldn’t do it in the Cotto fight.
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey
by BLee2525 on Nov 18, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's not.
He is simply saying he’d like to see some evidence before making up his mind either way.
It’s the way in which most rational, logical and reasonable people like to operate.
Apart from Jrok.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 19, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great interview.
Really enjoyed that.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Nov 18, 2009 7:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah… pretty insightful interview.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 19, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Margarito the cheat.
Not many people have said this but….before Cotto lost to Margarito the man was unstoppable. Nobody wanted to fight him and to be honest I think Most were scared of him.
But since that Loss Cotto is just not the same – and understandably . I believe that Margarito and his “juiced” hands could have destroyed a phonominal boxers’ career.
by doglookslikeafox on Nov 21, 2009 8:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not many people have said this
Actually loads of people have said this! I still think he’s damn good. Beating Joshua Clottey is really hard. Hitting him cleanly is hard too!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 21, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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