Malignaggi joins crowd of those suspicious of Pacquiao
by SC on Nov 18, 2009 5:32 PM EST
in News Analysis
76 comments
Ryan Burton of BoxingScene.com had a chance to interview junior welterweight contender Paulie Malignaggi. Mostly they discussed Malignaggi's December 12 rematch with Juan Diaz in Chicago, but most notable, perhaps, were Malignaggi's thoughts on Manny Pacquiao.
BoxingScene.com: What did you think of Pacquiao's win over Cotto?
Paulie Malignaggi: I think there is something up with Manny Pacquiao. I am not going to get into it. I think people will understand what I am saying. Full blown welterweights don't take those type of punches from Miguel Cotto the way he took them with total disregard for his power nor do they hurt him with every punch they hit him with. These are full blown welterweights I am talking about. This guy is coming up in weight and doing all these things. There is something up with this guy but that's as far as I am going to go into it. Floyd Mayweather (Senior) has gotten into it a little bit. There have been other fighters who have mentioned it. I am not going to get into no controversy. I am going to leave it at that. There is something that seriously makes me feel weird about Manny Pacquiao. I am going to leave it at that.
As Malignaggi says, he's not the only one that feels this way. He's not the first to say it. And he avoids making any huge statements or accusations.
Truthfully, given the era of sports we live in, it's natural to suspect the rise of a dominant force, and Pacquiao has become as dominant a force as we've seen in boxing in a long time. Not that there haven't been dominant guys; Roy Jones dominated, Floyd Mayweather dominated, but they didn't do it the way Manny has. The last time there was a fighter really manhandling foes with this much fanfare, it was probably Mike Tyson.
Discussion of the topic is OK, but please avoid slanderous statements if you're going to talk about it. There's no proof of anything, Pacquiao is tested after every fight, and to date there's never been a problem. I honestly don't suspect Pacquiao of any wrongdoing. Freddie Roach says Pacquiao "doesn't even know what a steroid is," and really, I don't think Floyd Mayweather Sr. really knows what one is, either. So many people seem to think steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs are like Popeye's spinach, but it doesn't work that way.
Make sure to read the rest of Ryan Burton's interview, as Paulie puts a pretty scorching verbal lashing on Juan Diaz.
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if it ever came out
that manny was on anything i think it would be the worst story possible for boxing right now. to me even worse than a fixed fight, since sometimes people assume that anyway.
but for the record i dont think manny has done anything
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by thebitb on Nov 18, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd be crushed
because Manny is just so damn likable and goofy, and is doing so much for the sport.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Nov 18, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is something up with Manny Pacquiao Paulie Malignaggi. I am not going to get into it. I think people will understand what I am saying. I think Paulie got basically lit on fire by Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto, and I think he’s afraid that Manny Pacquiao has downgraded his stock by pasting Hatton in two rounds and putting a horrendous beating on Cotto.
Oh wait did I just get into it, accidentally?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 18, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Much Laughter
and a rec
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 18, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was setting up the Pacquiao-vs.-Malignaggi grudge match!
by taco pal on Nov 18, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NOT IN PAULIE'S WETTEST DREAM!
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 18, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he'd be pretty fortunate to survive 3 rounds with PacMan
and I think that’s generous.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Nov 18, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol on jrok's comment
But in terms of analyzing, i think Malignaggi would last longer than that, man. He has a solid chin (knocked down only once, by Cotto), and he’ll run around the ring.
by Fj-3 on Nov 19, 2009 4:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paulie Malignaggi is a joke he got mauled by both Cotto and Hatton before Pac ruined them.
Pac is basically a flyweight that moved upto 147 to dominate the men that kicked Malignaggi’s ass. Everybody knows Malignaggis biggest asset is his mouth and he has an ego that was dented by the only good fighters he ever fought.
by MannyPacquiao on Nov 18, 2009 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Juan Diaz is a good fighter (and his other loss, so…your point stands)
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 18, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
I am one of the people who is suspicous of Manny Pacquiao. However it is just a suspicion and I really strongly beleive in innocent until proven guilty. I don’t know much about steroids but I do know that drug testing in high level sport is very meticulous.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 18, 2009 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So the PEDs made Pacquiao’s chin stronger? Do they even have PEDs that do that?
by taco pal on Nov 18, 2009 5:56 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
^This is the correct answer.
If you want to question how the hell he carries his power up through all of these divisions, fair enough. But since when do steroids give you the ability to take a punch?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 18, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
F=MA
That’s how…
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paulie's the first I've ever heard intimate that taking steroids grows you a chin
If that was the case, Audley would have been on the juice for years now.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 18, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
4 minutes behind Taco Pal, the point is no less salient. Steroids do not a chin grow you.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 18, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to give ANY credibility to what Paulie’s saying, but in theory you could build your neck muscles faster and marginally increase the ability to take a punch. That would be noticeable, though (if a guy had a giant neck). And Manny took shots where he wasn’t even flexing his neck to brace himself. So I have no idea what Paulie’s talking about? He alluded a little too much if you ask me. I need some more info.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was a stupid comment by Paulie
Why try to mar an illustrious career with that kind of garbage slander? He tests clean, and steroids either prevent muscle breakdown, or increase the rate at which your body can produce muscle. They do not give you the chin of Wolverine.
by rmatheny on Nov 18, 2009 6:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cotto's Punching Style
I don’t think Pac took all that much punishment in the Cotto fight anyway. Yes, he ate some eye-catching shots early on. But Cotto has always dealt damage by steady, gradual attrition. Pacquiao didn’t allow that to happen, because he starched Cotto relatively early and took the spirit out of the man and the zip out of his leather. Cotto is an accumulative puncher who was denied the chance to go to work.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 18, 2009 6:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
To be clear, when I say “took the spirit out of the man,” I do not mean to criticize Cotto’s heart or will. I’m talking about a kind of unconscious sense of knowing you’re fucked and feeling disoriented by having been pushed so quickly to your limits—how that awareness cause you to unconsciously change your behavior in the ring, no matter your conscious will to go on.
After round 4, Cotto had a slightly toned down version of the same look Hatton and Oscar had, except Cotto has more heart than Oscar and more physical resilience than Hatton.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 18, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Envy is an ugly thing
he should be worried about his rematch with the lawyer and be glad the questionable decision has given him a very brief additional 15 minutes of relevance.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Nov 18, 2009 6:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN Post-Fight Interview
BK interviewing MP and MP was detailing how painful Cotto’s punches were….but he just tried to bear and not show Cotto that it hurt him (it did)…since his strategy was (1) to show Cotto and the fans that he could take a true welterweight’s best punch and (2) to find an opening for his punches as soon as he can figure out Cotto’s moves.
Pac laid out this strategy to the Filipino scribes that rode w/ him in the bus returning to Wild Card. There was no secret formula.
by arch on Nov 18, 2009 7:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know what’s the dumbest part of all of this? If Paulie had just kept his ego in check and his mouth shut, and gone in there and given a good effort against Diaz, I think he would have actually made a pretty interesting choice for a Pacquiao sparring partner in training for Floyd. It would have been a well paying gig, and it’s always good to have options like that on the table. Paulie is 28, is getting a rep for being unprofessional and isn’t exactly the most compelling fighter south of 147 lbs. What happens when he is relegated to professional “opponent” status? When you think about it, that might not be very far off. He may think it gets him fans, but its dumb to burn bridges like he seems to like doing. Eventually, he might be looking for someone to help him out, and only find an empty room. Boxing can be a lonely sport at the end of a career.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 18, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Amen to that.
Just jealousy. That’s all this is.
by Areglado on Nov 18, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. Paulie would of been good for a sparing partner. His fast movement and counter punching and jabing would of been good to work off for a Mayweather fight
"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by sigidy on Nov 18, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
But Pacquiao would also have ZERO chance of getting hurt in sparring practice, which is also a big plus.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 18, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'd want that gig anyway
If he never opened his mouth but secretly thought that, why would he want to spar with him? In his head he feels he beat Diaz clearly first time, and if he does it again he can definitely do better than being a sparring partner for Pacquiao, IMHO
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 19, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paulie will never be the star he aspires to be. He’s got a rock hard chin but soft, fragile hands and strawweight power. Even if you are going to open your mouth and be a “character,” Malignaggi’s curse is not going to get any less damaging as his career winds down, and those reflexes naturally slow. And there’s no shame at all in sparring with a champion like Pacquiao, helping to train him for what would be the biggest fight of the decade. It’s good money, for one thing, and if you aren’t on a massive ego trip it could also just generally be a great boxing experience that you could learn from.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure man
If you listen to Kahn talk about Manny he is always saying how much he learns from sparring with him, albeit Kahn is a lot younger and is in the early days of his career
by Sweet science on Nov 19, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing is, I don’t think Paulie really thinks what he is saying here. I think he’s trying to sel himself as a boxing “character” and grab whatever scraps of celebrity fall from the table. He’s thinking: I can be the guy who always ‘tells it like it is.’ It’s like when he said “Boxing is bullshit” just because he lost a close fight. He wants to say controversial things because otherwise he just be a decent boxer with zero pop who provides a mild test for A class fighters.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that his ‘Boxing is bullshit’ line was emotional rather than calculated to be a character/controversial, given the disappointment just after the fight and the build up.
I don’t think he’s ever going to be the star he aspires to be either, but he can validly think that while he’s not going to be A-class/p4p, beat Diaz and he’s better than being a sparring partner for anyone. He kind of seems like he is on something of an ego trip after all the love he got post Diaz. Also, I think he is entitled to wonder about Pac, with human nature a few people are always going to be sceptical when someone goes beyond what physically seems possible.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 19, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
further
its natural to wonder, how’s this guy taking these punches? I was amazed and just decided, this guy’s freak of nature because I certainly felt that if Cotto hit him hard and often, he surely had to go (simplistic reasoning I know) Some people when they can’t explain something, go one way ‘Incredible!’ or ‘I don’t buy it’. I was the latter with Usain Bolt till someone explained about how his physical dimensions helped.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 19, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paulie’s always had a big mouth. I see what you mean about the “Hey, that’s impossible reaction.” But Armstrong accomplished a similar feat over 70 years ago, when steroids didn’t even exist. And there’s a difference between harboring suspicions in the face of Manny’s incredible achievements and saying out loud “I think he’s on steroids.” Personally, I think it’s a mixture of jealousy, self promotion and wanting to be mentioned in the same article as somebody with the last name “Mayweather.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably also lack of intelligence
its just not smart to say it out loud/alluding to it the way he did, though he was asked what he thought, after all. I guess when steroids didn’t exist everyone had to accept it as fact in the past, but now they do. The rest of his interview was fun with the usual running his mouth, but that part didn’t do him any favors.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 20, 2009 6:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Crowd?
I feel like the headline leads to an inaccurate conclusion … that there is actually more than 2 people that have implied Manny is taking PEDs. Floyd Sr. is obviously biased and not a credible source … and Malignaggi just seems like a card-carrying tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Recall his hyperbolic reaction to the decision after the Juan Diaz fight. It HAD to be a fix. There’s no other explanation … nobody could have possibly thought Juan Diaz’s punches had more effect than Malignaggi’s feather-pillow touches. I’m not convinced Malignaggi could KO a 11 year old kid … no WONDER he thinks only drugs could allow a fighter like Manny to go on such a TKO tear.
by sunzlight on Nov 18, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s more than Floyd and Paulie. Jeff Mayweather was interviewed after Floyd Sr. first talked about this and said there are definitely more than just Big Floyd that think this about Manny. Paulie says it’s not just two people. The fact is there are surely more people that believe the same thing, they just have the sense not to say anything publicly, because they have no proof.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 18, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, jeff mayweather actually counts as a different source? crowd really is inaccurate and you should change the headline.
by sunzlight on Nov 18, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty weird reaction to a post that defended Pacquiao. Anyway, I think Kermit Cintron also voiced suspicions like this. Also, Jeff Mayweather is his own man and does, in fact, count as a different source.
by taco pal on Nov 18, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Mayweather: “To be honest there are a lot of other people who feel Pacquiao is taking something as well. They are basing this on the fact that no other fighter has been able to rise so many weight classes while getting that ripped and muscular. … People are looking at Pacquiao’s physique and asking how is this possible? … I honestly know of all kinds of people who are saying this. Some say it publicly and some say it behind closed doors but only when my brother says it does it really create so much attention.”
Like it or not, yes, Jeff is his own person and has never simply “gone along” with any Mayweather family rhetoric of any kind.
Kermit Cintron: “I honestly think that he is taking something, because a lot of fighters coming up in weight like that, 40 something pounds… he just looks ripped like Bruce Lee. A lot of people who come up in weight like that don’t look as ripped as he is, they hold a lot of water weight. I just believe he is taking something. I think he is taking something that’s for sure. I don’t know what it is, whatever he is taking its not coming up in the drug test.”
The headline isn’t changing.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 18, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
pretty ridiculous to bring up a close relative as an example of a non-biased source. there is no “crowd” and you’re only making this site look bad by leaving it there.
by sunzlight on Nov 19, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the final time — and I mean the final time: The headline is not changing. I understand what you’re saying. I disagree with what you’re saying. You cannot show me prior examples of Jeff Mayweather simply going along with the “Mayweather family line,” which is actually something that does not exist. They’re hardly a family famous for always agreeing or backing each other up. And Jeff also says that there are many people saying the same thing, but they won’t say it publicly. Why? Because they don’t want to accuse someone without proof.
Considering I don’t think Jeff Mayweather is a liar, nor does he have anything to gain by saying this, I give him fair credibility.
Cintron talked about it. Malignaggi talked about it. Wallace Matthews and Bobby Cassidy of Newsday both wrote about it this week. SEVERAL journalists have talked about it. And who started that? Floyd Sr. by being the first man to go loud and wide with it.
Your problem seems more to me like you don’t agree that Pacquiao has done anything wrong, and therefore are irritated by the idea that there ARE more than the few people that have publicly said something that think this way. I don’t think he’s done anything, either; the article says so. I’m not sure if you read past the headline or not. But to pretend like this isn’t becoming an eyebrow-raising hot topic just because you don’t want it to be one is silly.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 19, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think Pacquiao’s body type is somewhat relevant. Hearns was able to capitalize on being a lanky fast metabolism kid for a long time, but once he added weight across his body, he settled into the higher weight classes. And he clearly knew it was a genetic thing because he had the balls to accuse Leonard of using steroids to do it.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not that pacquiao’s lanky, but roach saying they have to feed him five times a day to break 145, and pacquiao saying he’s glad to be eating again implies they were capitalizing on a fast metabolism at featherweight.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you wouldn’t happen to be from anaheim calling now would you?
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 19, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no. never heard of them.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I think his body looked much better when he fought Diaz. He looked buffer for that fight than any fight afterwards. They clearly trained his body more for speed during and after De La Hoya, and probably added weight to his legs in case he got rocked.
Plus, where do they get punching power increasing? He was knocking guys straight backwards at 130, whether he hurt them or not. He hasn’t done that to a true welterweight. Nobody falls to pacquiao at welter unless he catches them on the chin, which he’s focused on doing instead of steamrolling that lead left into the temple. Power seems the same to me.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Water weight"?
Full bladder? Cintron is talking out of his hat
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the photo on your post “Pacquiao doesn’t want to fight Marquez again, Roach wants it at 145” – in fact look at any photo of Pac pre-135. Pac has stick-like arms and angular shoulders compared to JMM, who was well muscled at the weight. He’s just put some meat on his previously sparse frame
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. He also carries weight really well in his legs, which most boxers do not. His legs are huge. That cannot be ignored, though it isn’t addressed by Paulie or Cintron or Floyd Sr., none of whom I think know what they’re talking about on this matter.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 19, 2009 7:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is an interesting concept
to build muscle in other areas to build up weight, like your legs, and maintain your speed and power by limiting weight gain in other areas.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Nov 19, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, he has got footballer’s legs – I’d never really noticed, but now it’s pointed out it’s blindingly obvious (too busy watching his flashing fists). However, I’m not sure that other fighters can’t carry the weight down there – I’d say legs are one of the easiest (relatively) muscle groups to build up. Maybe it’s just that most trainers consider them dead weight?
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Pretty much anyone who’s considered to be large for his weight class has scrawny legs. Heck, check Edison Miranda’s legs sometimes. They’re like lollipop sticks compared to his upper body.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 19, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Monzon was another classic example. And Ray Robinson. At the other end of the leg scale you’ve got Frazier and Marciano – I guess there’s more than one way to hit hard!
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mariciano didn't have "lollipop legs"
He had thick, strong legs, and derived a lot of his punching power from their strength and flexibility.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he and Joe are at the big leg end while Monzon is the skinny one.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes a lot more sense.
I guess I read that wrong.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whiners and jealous pricks
I supported Paulie vs his result with Juan “baby bull” Diaz as he had genuine reasons. However, Paulie is also a caught in his world of “loving me . . recognize me”. Given that he survive Cotto for 12 rounds was one of his defining moments (i.e. Cotto was an awesome boxer, elite welterweight, good ring smarts) which is why Paulie was predicting that Cotto was too much for Pac Man as he was INDIRECTLY trying to prop up himself as a good fighter.
However, the public sees the smoke screen Paulie. All your barking even in the disguise of smart talk insinuation does not hold water. You should follow Manny Pac – his success is really the result of hardwork, pushing himself to excellence (trains hours and hours per day), get a good coach/trainer to hone your strategy, improve your mental focus (not that you throw unsupported slander . . rather focus on your fights!), etc.
Steriods – DOES NOT MAKE YOU SUPERHUMAN, like the media would have you believe. Yes it does help, to an extent (ie. stronger, bulkier), but it does not make someone who has no talent become an amazing athlete. If an athlete DOES NOT have the talent or ability, steroids are NOT a wonder drug that is going to give them that talent or ability. Plus, steriods does not improve your mental/tactical state, does not improve your boxing technique (in and out movements, unique boxing angles), does not improve your feet/hands coordination (which Manny has been known for since his lower weight battles) . .
So Paulie, Cintron . . don’t try to prop up your image with classless accusations (unless there has been evidence to the contrary). It does not look good on you as reputable boxers . . but, rather whiners and jealous pricks.
by hanson7 on Nov 21, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what to think. All I want to see is Pacman and Mayweather in 2010. The rest is speculation with something to put your mind on … If you want
by Haans Bishop on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he looks exactly the same except that he’s as somebody on the yahoo undercard said “deeper”. he was 16 at his lowest weight, and idk about you guys but i got bigger by the time i reached 18-20. like many people have said before at 130-135 he was basically draining himself. he’s at his limit at 144.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 18, 2009 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
At 16 years old
Mayweather and Cotto also weighed 106. It’s amazing he was able to keep his weight as low as he did for as long as he did, especially considering how huge his legs are.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 18, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was a part of his frustration draining down before he turned lightweight. Roach demands strong legs, and Manny was already weighing in at fight night around 144 against Morales and in Marquez II.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 19, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep thats what i meant by 144 being his limit. that is his absolute peak. hell for the oscar fight he was only 144 and only weighed 148 on the night of the fight. that’s his NATURAL weight, so NATURALLY he’s going to be a dominant force at it
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Nov 19, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Innocent until proven guilty
I wouldn’t be surprised if Pacman has been taking something, but it’s not because I think badly of Pacquiao or anything, it’s just the climate of professional sports today. Steroids are the big topic and more and more people are being outed for taking drugs. Pacquiao may not know what a steroid is, but someone in his camp might know what one is (barring Freddie Roach of course). He already has that one shady business manager in his camp. Pacquiao is just one of those guys who has the utmost trust in the people around him that if someone was like, “Here take this”, he’d probably do it with no questions asked.
But until there is proof, Pacquiao is just a badass.
by erod on Nov 19, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He is a badass
And I really, really don’t think he’s juicing. If he was juicing, however, he wouldn’t be doing it unknowingly; athletes that get busted, despite their initial protestations, never are.
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With an entourage like his
It’s easy enough to take them unknowingly. You have a fitness guy, and you trust him to give you the right supplements. But it’s difficult to take them unknowingly and not be negligent about it. The only real exception is that there are actually quite a few supplements you can buy in any GNC contain substances that are banned by most athletic commissions, because they’re not illegal at the federal government level.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 19, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To succesfully cheat, the cheater really needs to buy in to the deal – Pacquiao might get suspicious when one of his entourage offers to piss for him
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
Not everything can be found through a piss test.
by erod on Nov 19, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Performance enhancing drugs have traditionally been at least one or two steps ahead of the testing.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 19, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In a way you could then link Margarito in with this, claiming he had nothing to do with the wraps,
BULLSHIT i say
by Sweet science on Nov 19, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are there any recent, documented cases of unwitting (but not accidental) juicers? Maybe some former Eastern-Bloc athletes fall into this category; although given the industrial scale of those operations, and the regimes involved, I wouldn’t be too surprised.
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haterz. Duran went up to eventually fights guys like Barkley the Blade and the Hitman Hearns. Malignaggi’s sounded like sour grapes to me for awhile. i was a huge fan after the fights with Hatton and Cotto despite being losing efforts, I’m looking forward to Diaz beating him this time/with pressure and Malignaggi having nothing to say since it’s not in Texas. and yeah, this is the same Mayweather that’s said countless other ridiculous things. he seems so out of touch as to be laughable. he’s more sour grapes b/c every fight he’s been opposite Roach minus DLHoya, he’s been on the losing end.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 19, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Duran went up to eventually fights guys like Barkley the Blade and the Hitman Hearns
I think it is more the way Pacquiao has gone up in weight that has raised suspicion. It is the way he has kept his excellent muscularity and hasn’t put on any fat all. Duran put on fat when he moved up.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 19, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fighters other than Duran have kept their body fat low as they moved up in weight: Hearns, Leonard, Holyfield, Carpentier(!). Not a long list, I’ll grant you, but I’m sure there are others
by FCF on Nov 19, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marciano didn't have "lollipop legs"
He had thick, strong legs, and derived a lot of his punching power from their strength and flexibility.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 19, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to tell
The only pics of Carpentier I can fight from the Dempsey fight, he’s lying on the ground knocked out.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 20, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have that fight; his legs don’t look particularly large.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 20, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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