Manny Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto test clean in Nevada
by SC on Nov 24, 2009 6:34 PM EST
in News Analysis
36 comments
For those that keep thinking Manny Pacquiao might be on performance-enhancing drugs, he's not. Neither is Miguel Cotto. Both tested clean in the post-fight drug test from their November 14 bout. From Sports Illustrated:
Pacquiao, who became the first boxer to win seven championships in as many weight classes, underwent urine tests twice -- before and after the fight -- and both came back negative, said Keith Kizer, executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission. It's the the 10th time the Filipino has turned in clean tests in Nevada.
Immediately following his win over Cotto, fans inside the MGM Grand Arena pleaded for a megafight with Floyd Mayweather Jr., who many have regarded as the top pound-for-pound fighter since his return in September. In response to the expected fanfare, Floyd Mayweather Sr. publicly accused Pacquiao of taking steroids.
...
Pacquiao has been bombarded with accusations of doping, having conquered seven weight divisions since entering the sport at 106 pounds when he was 16. And after Mayweather Sr.'s comments following the Nov. 14 bout, there has been speculation that if a megafight between Floyd Jr. and Pacquiao is agreed upon, Mayweather's camp may place stipulations in the fight contract that would require both fighters to take separate, mandatory drug tests in addition to the required tests by state athletic commissions.
I've been OK talking about public perception, with voices like Floyd Sr., Paulie Malignaggi, Kermit Cintron and Jeff Mayweather saying either they thought something was up, or that there are many feel as though there is and nobody is saying it because, well, they have no proof.
But now I'll just say what I really feel: None of those guys know how PEDs work, none of them have any proof whatsoever, and they've all been talking out of their hindquarters, either for attention or because they're just that foolish. It's a risky thing to start accusing anyone of doping, and particularly risky when Pacquiao is now at ten fights without a failed drug test in Nevada.
I even understand the thought coming into someone's head these days. With our current sports climate, acts of greatness are doubted in this way. It's going to happen. But this looks like an instance where we need to sit back and just all say, "Wow, we are witnessing something remarkable with Manny Pacquiao."
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This won't shut up Floyd Sr. or Paulie
To shut either of those guys up, you’d need to superglue more than just their mouths!
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 24, 2009 6:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
The drugs are always several steps ahead of testing. I’ve always got the feeling that you have to be an idiot to be caught, unless the governing organization puts a large effort into drug detection, see cycling. However, would I be surprised if Pacquiao or any boxer with big KO power comes out with steroid allegations…..not really. I’m not saying that they are doping it just wouldn’t be surprising if they were.
by waldo47 on Nov 24, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the NSAC retests old blood samples
like track & field does. I’m guessing no, but it helps if you do, for that very reason.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 25, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think all the accusations are about steriods either
Some of the quotes say he is taking “something”. There are more performance enhancing drugs out there that can be masked. So people just can’t rule it out that easy. But I wouldn’t be quick to accuse either. Manny trains and he trains hard so it can just be that. We really don’t know at this point either way.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Nov 25, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hate to say this...
But you can understand why some people are questioning it. It’s BS to call out somebody without any proof but peoples ears do prop up when somebody does what Pac has done.
I mean he skipped two weight divisions too so he is now fighting at nine weight divisions above what he started at and not only that but he is destroying some of the most powerful fighters in those divisions.
I have no doubt Pac is an incredible physical specimen but the way he dismantled Cotto considering Cotto does to other fighters what Pac did to him.. it’s just pretty breath taking when you take it all in and consider the odds of anybody pulling it off.
Damn not even Marg could knock down Cotto like that and neither could anybody else in that division. Pac is a legitimte strong, sharp and fast 147 pounder in his second fight in the division.
Fact of the matter is what Pac is doing has never been done before and it just doesn’t seem natural or doable.
If I told you Pavlik was moving upto HW to challenge the Klitchsko brothers or Mayweather was moving upto 160 to take on Roy Jones you’d probably slap me in the face for insulting your intelligence.
If I told you Pac was moving upto 147 to challenge Cotto three or four years ago your reaction would be exactly the same. The man is always going to be questioned and to be honest it’s not hard to understand why.
Lets face it. None of us thought this would be possible a few years ago so what he is doing is something that really is difficult to believe at times.
by MannyPacquiao on Nov 24, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I told you Pavlik was moving upto HW to challenge the Klitchsko brothers or Mayweather was moving upto 160 to take on Roy Jones you’d probably slap me in the face for insulting your intelligence.
Actually Pavlik eventually moving up to heavyweight has been discussed in the past, and I’d be more insulted by the idea that you’d think Roy Jones can still make 160.
But I know what you’re saying.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 24, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Pavlik eventually moving up to heavyweight has been discussed in the past
Really? I thought he found it hard to put on weigh. I’m intrigued none the less.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 25, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but to be fair it was before he get trounced by Hopkins. I don’t think I see Kelly fighting at heavy ever, or at least not very successfully, but then who ever saw James Toney going that high when he was in his prime, I suppose.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 25, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand where you're coming from but....
Pacquiao has been wanting to move up in weight from 130 for a long time….prior to the Marquez 2 fight. He could no longer make weight.
Pacquiao:“I have a plan to move up in weight to 135, 140. But we’ll talk about that after Saturday.”
He would rehydrate 15/16 lbs after weigh-ins and looked amazingly gaunt and malnourished. As Steward mentioned—Pacquiao has about 7lbs of more natural weight than Marquez and why he was so comfortable in making 140 at 138lbs.
by rao007 on Nov 24, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's kinda sad....
that “he’s fucking awesome” has become reason enough to suspect a guy of steroid use.
I can also help dispel the notion that going from 106# to 147# is evidence of anything. When I was 16, I wrestled 112#, and cut no weight to get there. I often weighed in at 109 or 110 on the day of the meet. With any effort to control my weight, I could have been at 106 without a problem, and I didn’t come from a poor area of the world where children are often malnourished, as Pacquiao did. I’m 29 now, and weigh just North of 160. If I had a “fighting weight,” I imagine it would be somewhere between 140 and 147.
I’m the biggest Cotto fan there is, but I have no suspicions or illusions about what happened in that fight. Manny Pacquiao is simply the greatest fighter I’ve ever seen.
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey
by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2009 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
106 to 147
Miguel Cotto boxed at 106 when he was 15
Floyd Mayweather boxed at 106 when he was 16
Roy Jones Jr. boxed at 119 when he was 16
Guys put on a lot of weight after then. What’s amazing is that he managed to keep his weight so low for so long.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 24, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People fail to realize that Brick…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 24, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that "he’s fucking awesome" has become reason enough to suspect a guy of steroid use.
Incorrect. The reason people think Manny is/was on the PEDs is because of how he moved up in weight. He has had significant power at every weight class and has essentially just put on straight muscle. Also putting on all of this muscle has not hampered his speed in the slightest. Now it is possible to do this on your own, but it is pretty rare. However, that is exactly how PEDs work. This is why people are questioning the Pacman….not because “He’s so awesome” child please.
by waldo47 on Nov 24, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Floyd also still has his speed – and some pop too. His weight increase has also been very similar to Manny’s if you look at what he was weighing as an amateur.
There are also plenty of historical examples of great fighters moving up in weight – and still being able to hurt opponents. Archie Moore was a 20 year old welterweight when he turned pro – years later he was beating up heavyweights. Robinson turned pro at lightweight, and was crushing middles when he was 30+. Sam Langford beat Joe Gans as a 20 year old… and knocked out heavies when he was a chubby old guy. With accuracy and timing, smaller fighters can knock bigger men out… all those men proved it well before PEDs.
by A.F. on Nov 24, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
It’s a rare skill to be able to “punch your weight” and, I think, one that carries up through the divisions – although there is obviously a limit depending on how much weight you can comfortably carry. A lot of KO artists that lose the trick when moving up (in weight or in class) tend to be arm/effort punchers who trade on their strength, rather than having that “snap” and timing that a natural has.
by FCF on Nov 25, 2009 7:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He sounds like people protecting McGwire and Sosa
when they were breaking records.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Nov 25, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s taking something illegal to build muscle, then it doesn’t seem to have affected his stamina much, which is one reason why I think he’s not. Most doping in sport, AFAIK, relates to the enhancement of either stamina, or power, but not both. Don’t know much about them, but I’d guess those McGwire and Sosa fellows were juicing for power alone?
by FCF on Nov 25, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know to much but I'll ask my uncle in law this weekend
who is nuts and puts anything in his body.
But most times when there are whispers there is some truth to the matter, not always but in most cases yes.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Nov 25, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s obviously got natural speed, with the genetic make-up that lays down plenty of fast-twitch fibres – so acquiring more muscle shouldn’t necessarily mean he’ll be slower
by FCF on Nov 25, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But this looks like an instance where we need to sit back and just all say, “Wow, we are witnessing something remarkable with Manny Pacquiao.”
I’ve been doing that for some time now. It’s a good time to be a boxing fan.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 24, 2009 9:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
“But now I’ll just say what I really feel: None of those guys know how PEDs work, none of them have any proof whatsoever, and they’ve all been talking out of their hindquarters, either for attention or because they’re just that foolish.”
I couldn’t agree more. Being a boxer or a trainer doesn’t make someone an expert on PEDs, not to mention that when you read/listen to what they’re actually saying, it’s clear that all they are basing it on nothing more than a hunch.
by A.F. on Nov 24, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ariza
I am giving the credit to Roach, Ariza and the nutritionist, they are behind Manny’s success in those weight changes. Ariza and the nutritionist were just genius in human kinetics. Amazing diet as well, 6,500 calories a day! Besides, I heard Manny’s training for each fight is equivalent to a year of training for top fighters. No doubt then for the result.
by Mazhar on Nov 25, 2009 2:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ariza is also Manny’s nutritionist, and is as credible as you make him out to be. He is renowned as one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world and has done really amazing things with Pacquiao. One of the main reasons that I don’t think Manny is taking PEDs is that it would be extremely out of character for Ariza to give him anything illegal.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 25, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would it be out of character to try to give his guy an edge? The man is pretty obviously competitive (sometimes you gotta unload on another dudes face), so it’s not unreasonable to think he would want manny to get the best possible “nutrition”.
by waldo47 on Nov 25, 2009 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It would be out of character because he is so well respected in the physical training world and because he has no history of doping clients. Of course that doesn’t mean he hasn’t this time but it makes it less likely.
Seriously, wouldn’t you have punched Koncz? I think I would and he hasn’t even done anything to me!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 25, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PEDs, urine tests, blood tests
For those that keep thinking Manny Pacquiao might be on performance-enhancing drugs, he’s not. Neither is Miguel Cotto. Both tested clean in the post-fight drug test from their November 14 bout.
Remember that there are a lot of PEDs that don’t show up in urine tests, but do show up in blood tests. I’m not accusing Manny of using (hadn’t even really thought about it until the accusations started coming up recently), I’m just saying I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that he’s not simply based on a urine test.
by Fooch on Nov 25, 2009 3:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before...
Innocent until proven guilty.
But as someone said before, drug tests are usually playing catch-up. As an example, “The Clear” was developed around 2000/2001, and the test wasn’t developed until 2003,a good 2 to 3 years later. I’m just saying.
Manny Pacquiao is doing incredible things right now and I hope that he didn’t cheat to do it.
by erod on Nov 25, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
the only `something` he is taking comes from MONEY and FOOD. The guy is from a 3rd world country where food and supplements arent easily available and Pacquiao now has the means to afford those luxuries.
the guy eats a freakin 6500 calorie diet and trains his ass off.. the idea isnt so farfetched.
athletes come along and do things they just arent suppose to do.. it happens in all sports.. the Mayweathers just enjoy talking out their ass and starting controversy.. in this instance, they were successful in puttin doubt in peoples mind.
by jerranamo on Nov 25, 2009 2:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
I can’t believe so many people are following the script that’s being laid out here. Paulie Malignaggi talks so much shit his forehead should have a flush handle on it. None of these guys have a shred of evidence of P.E.D’s, and several or all of them don’t even understand what any of them are or what they actually do. This is what’s really messed up about doping, is that when a few guys do it, it makes people automatically suspect everyone of doping.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 25, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In 3rd world country supplements are easier to find and get. There is no regulation
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Nov 25, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no regulation but there are also far fewer people who can afford them or even know what they are.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Nov 25, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pacquiao started at 106lbs because he came from a poor family. he boxed for only 100 pesos per fight (2dollars). when you look at his body then, he was so thin. this is because of lack of food. when he started winning, of course he started eating and gaining weight. he’s 5’6", so 140+lbs is his natural weight. it’s no surprise that he can climb up to many divisions because he is just 16 when he started. and his climb is not that fast. this accusations of doping is non sense. Senior and Malignaggi are just plain jealous
by pa3k on Nov 25, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is all true, but it’s also worth going back and watching Manny fight at 112 pounds where he had some very impressive wins. He was HUGE at that weight, and just raw strong.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 25, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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