A Heavyweight Burden for David Haye
Let's just come right out and say it: If Nikolai Valuev retains his WBA heavyweight title on Saturday in Germany when he faces David Haye, the heavyweight division remains that far off from anything terribly interesting happening.
Even though Haye takes his share of talk for being mouthy or arrogant or egotistical, or for ducking out of fights with both Klitschkos this year after making such a show of calling them out, I think the vast majority of boxing fans around the world will be rooting for Haye to take Valuev out of the picture.
It's nothing personal against Valuev, really, it's just that his fights stink. He's deserved to lose more than the one time he has. John Ruiz beat Valuev and was jobbed. A 12,000-year-old Evander Holyfield beat Valuev and was jobbed. Valuev has plenty of legitimate wins, too, I'm not saying that he doesn't. I'm also not saying he's somehow not a legit fighter because he happens to be seven feet tall.
It's just that his fights are rotten to watch, he's generated no significant interest over his career, and if he was going to make anything happen, he would have by now.
Haye, on the other hand, has a future. He's bigger than he's often given credit for, at 6'3" with a 78-inch reach. He's a fitness fanatic, the type of guy that stays in immaculate shape between his fights, much like his would-be rivals, the Klitschkos. He's got massive power. And at 29, he's still young enough to stir up some genuine interest in the still-failing heavyweight division.
But for as much talk as there is of Haye knocking Valuev out, I just can't see it. Brickhaus said something to the same effect, and here are the two scenarios I think are most likely for Saturday.
1. David Haye by decision
Haye will out-quick and batter Valuev, but never break him. He will win a clear decision -- clear even in Germany -- and head off to his likely mandatory fight with John Ruiz, another thriller waiting to happen.
Haye's chin has always been a bit dodgy. Monte Barrett managed to rock him around a little bit in his proper heavyweight debut last November -- coincidentally, the last time Haye fought. With the unusual angles from which Valuev can punch a man, including straight down, Haye has got to be careful to not leave himself wide open. For such a huge man, you could say that Valuev doesn't punch that hard. But it's relative; he is a huge man, and he punches plenty hard enough to knock Haye out if David gets reckless.
I can't see Valuev being stopped by Haye unless it's an accumulation of body work that just breaks Valuev's spirit and gets him to quit on his stool or something like that. It's not that I underestimate Haye's power, which I think is outstanding. It's that I think the only guy in the division that might be able to seriously knock Valuev out is Wladimir Klitschko, were Wlad willing to unleash one of his cannon right hands or a series of left hooks like destroyed Ray Austin a couple years back. Valuev's just such a mass of flesh, blood, bone and muscle that I don't think anyone will really hurt him too bad without the perfect shot, and like him or not, he's not a dumb fighter, and he protects himself.
I am oddly excited for this fight because of what a Haye victory could mean. Haye is an exciting fighter who could finally spark some real interest in the division. We all recognize that the Klitschkos are great talents and have become as close to unbeatable compared to the rest of their division as it's likely to get, and that's nice, but they're never going to stir up any real emotion or interest unless they were to do the unthinkable and fight each other.
David Haye is the sort of talent and personality that can revive a division like this, which has stagnated but does have some nice young talent here and there.
But if Valuev wins? That's a bitter question to taste, really. If Valuev wins, and deserves to have won, then Haye leaves Germany dejected, embarrassed and in many ways, debunked in the court of public opinion. It'd be a long, hard climb for him back up the ladder. And it would mean that still another of the major heavyweight titles is controlled by a man who just doesn't make for a compelling night at the fights.
For the good of heavyweight boxing, David Haye must win.
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I do hope Haye wins I think one thing he has is an interesting personality.
Get this guy on TV and interview him something about goofy and he’s probably the most comical boxer of all time. He has a lot of charisma and a fighter with charisma can only be good for the sport.
With a lot of dull Europeans with broken English taking over boxing now there really isn’t anything dynamic or intriguing about heavyweight boxing at the moment.
Maybe if big mouth Haye starts winning and draws some attention to himself with his pretty much eccentric attitude people will take interest in a heavyweight champion again.
Whether for better or worse in heavyweight divisions boxers have always had a strong personality associated with them that formed what people thought of them more than their in ring accomplishments.
by MannyPacquiao on Nov 5, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I see no reason Haye can’t KO—or at least TKO—Valuev. Smaller men have knocked out plenty of bigger men in the past, and Valuev’s aura of KO-invulnerability may very well be more closely linked to his fearsome appearance than his toughness. I wouldn’t lay my hard earned on it, but I wouldn’t write off the possibility either.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 5, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think Haye may be able to just ‘blow up’ Valuev, be too fast, too explosive regardless of Valuev’s size.
"I swear to God, I'll take this ******* ball and shove it down your ******* throat" - Serena Williams
by lcollins1 on Nov 5, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've just never seen Valuev even hurt before
He looked mildly buzzed for a half second against Barrett (when he winged a full force shot that landed squarely on the temple) and Bidenko froze him up with a 10 punch combo, but he just seems to have a great chin and pain threshhold. And while Haye has great power, (a) he’s too short to get full leverage behind his shots to Valuev’s chin, and (b) he really has more combo power than one-punch power. It’s possible that Haye is the strongest puncher that Valuev has faced, but it’s not like he’s been fighting feather duster salesmen. On the other hand, Valuev easily has the best chin of anyone Haye has faced other than Abdoul, and Haye couldn’t knock him out either. Plus, the two guys he has knocked out on one punch (Gurov and Maccaranelli) have both proven to have pretty bad chins.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that he could score the KO, but Haye’s not going to get a mercy stoppage in Germany. IMO, no more likely than the chance that Valuev wins a decision.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 5, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dempsey-Willard
Everyone thought big Jess couldn’t be hurt by little Jack (ok, slightly bigger size differential), and we all know what transpired. Then again, Haye probably won’t have dipped his wraps in Margarito sauce beforehand.
by FCF on Nov 5, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dipped his wraps in Margarito sauce
This should become the new historical reference for using plaster in your wraps. Classic.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 5, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You neglected to mention that Haye has knocked out every single one of his opponents except Abdoul. I know you know this, but it’s certainly worth mentioning. I also think your point that Haye is a combo specialist actually works against your argument, since accumulative combinations are more likely to KO Valuev than a single big punch (for the reasons you mention). If Haye is explosive enough—if he’s fast and brutal enough and swarms Valuev—I do indeed think it’s possible he could get the stoppage, even in Germany. Would I give him a better than 50/50 chance? Certainly not. But I do think the chances are better than Scott’s or your comments suggest.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 5, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well think of it like this… It is like a 12 year old trying to knock out a 25 year old man. There is just too much mass and bone to for Valuev to get knockout. He might get a TKO’ed but for him to go down for the 10 count? Very unlikely…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 5, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Valuev
by technical turning to dust with a jab.
I’m certainly not as keen on Haye as a lot of people. I seem to have completely missed this amazingly funny and charismatic personality he is supposed to have, I find him annoying and predictable. However I can hardly root for the undeniably dull Valuev so I would still like Haye to win.
Despite this I just don’t see a win for Haye happening based on his Monte Barret fight. Either he was hurt quite a few times by a fighter noticeably inferior to Valuev in terms of punching power or his footwork is pretty poor. Actually it’s a bit of both. I totally accept that Haye has great power even amongst the heavyweights but, as had already been pointed out, Valuev’s chin is built like a continental plate.
I don’t think he can take Valuev’’s punches and I think that Valuev won’t be very bothered by his. Valuev by mid to late KO
by Drunken cutman on Nov 5, 2009 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
did everyone forget the Holyfield fight?!
Valuev was embarassed by a 45yr old who shouldn’t even Be boxing. I think Haye follows that blueprint and wins a wide decision, although that may be simplistic reasoning. Valuev is really not that good, shouldn’t be holding a belt now and he’ll be even more badly exposed this time, IMO.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 5, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I don't think Valuev is a better boxer
or even a remotely good one, but Haye’s chin just won’t hold up against him. I will be happy if he proves me wrong though!
by Drunken cutman on Nov 5, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But will Valuev hit that chin?
He didn’t against old man Holyfield, I don’t see why he will against Haye.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 5, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Haye gets hit by the punch in the picture above
He very well could go down. And Valuev was extraordinarily unaggressive in that fight. Pretty much everything I’ve read indicates that Valuev held back in that fight out of his respect for Holyfield and not wanting to hurt the old man. Haye has pissed him off enough that I doubt he’ll hold anything back. No, he doesn’t have massive power, but he’s knocked out his fair share of guys with chins about on par with Haye’s (i.e. Barrett, Beck).
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 6, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much everything I’ve read indicates that Valuev held back in that fight out of his respect for Holyfield and not wanting to hurt the old man.
I’ll back this up — I’ve heard and read the same things from a lot of people. Some say Valuev was far from thrilled that he had to fight Holyfield at all.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 6, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holyfield
I don’t think Haye will follow that blueprint, because he doesn’t have the gas to go 12 against such a big man – I think even ancient Holyfield has better stamina than prime Haye, and Haye knows it. I’m expecting Haye to come out bombing, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Valuev sparked. Just hope I can find a pub to watch the fireworks….
by FCF on Nov 6, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vitali could knock him out…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. Vitali would have a hard time hitting him solid, too. Wladimir’s a little more flexibile. And Vitali battered Sam Peter and Cristobal Arreola and didn’t knock either of them down.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 5, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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