David Haye squeaks by Nikolai Valuev to claim WBA title
by SC on Nov 7, 2009 6:09 PM EST
in Post-Fight Analysis
60 comments
David Haye managed to win a majority decision in Germany today, beating Nikolai Valuev for the WBA heavyweight title in a typically boring Valuev bout that may have finally rid the division of the giant Russian.
To be blunt, though, Haye was very fortunate to get out of Germany with the belt. He won on scores of 116-112, 116-112 and 114-114, and a 116-112 Valuev card could have been perfectly defensible. The fact that he managed to win a title by fighting as tentatively as he did, in Germany, is almost amazing. Bad Left Hook scored it 115-113 for Haye.
Haye (23-1, 21 KO) looked mostly to land one shot at a time, circling the ring endlessly and staying as far away from Valuev as he possibly could. In fact, there's no getting around it: Haye didn't look like he wanted anything to do with an actual fight against the seven-footer. Valuev (50-2, 34 KO) pressed the action most of the night, but mostly missed his shots.
Haye did rock and nearly drop Valuev in the 12th round, and I think had he gotten him down, Valuev wasn't going to get up. Haye then took his foot off the pedal and got back on his bike. At the time, it was very easy to think he needed that knockdown, or even a knockout. It turns out he didn't.
It was a dreadfully dull fight, almost a replay of Valuev's horrible win over Evander Holyfield last December. This time, Valuev pressed more, bumrushed a little bit, and didn't just stay flat-footed at center ring. Haye was way outside the pocket most of the fight.
Haye got lucky tonight. Not that he won -- I think he won the fight. But that he was given the decision in Germany against a reigning titlist while fighting so tentatively and even scared at times. I'm openly happy that Haye won, but if I were advising his career, I keep him away from the Klitschko brothers and even tell him to just shut up about them. Watching him against Valuev, there's no way he beats one of the Klitschkos. They both destroy him fairly early, and I'm quite certain of that now.
Haye will likely make his first defense against former titlist John Ruiz (44-8-1, 30 KO), who stopped journeyman Adnan Serin in the seventh round on the undercard. If Haye gets past Ruiz, who does fight more aggressively than he used to and still has a very good chin, there are plenty of fights out there. Haye against Tomasz Adamek in a battle of former cruiserweight champions could be quite interesting and really explosive. Haye could fight Cristobal Arreola or Odlanier Solis. There's plenty. But the Klitschkos? Stay away, David.
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Yep. Agreed on all counts.
Did you see the post-fight bit where Haye said he hurt his right hand, and fought most of the fight with one hand?
Strange, cos I thought he was taking the “Don’t Use Either Hand” strategy to winning.
Maybe he forgot which hand he hurt, and didn’t like 50/50 odds of hurting it more….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, amendment;
Agreed on all counts, except that I scored the fight a draw, and if either fighter nicked it, I thought it was Valuev.
Apart from that, I agree with everything. ;)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very funny
Haye could probably have owned Valuev based on what happened in the last round. It was a dull fight which failed to deliver. I would really like to see Haye get into a ring with one of the k brothers but I’ll be damned if I pay to watch Haye get beaten up for three rounds and stopped.
Oh and I’m now quite convinced that my fight predictions suck :(
by Drunken cutman on Nov 7, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Haye could and should have gone after him earlier.
Which is a lot of the reason I’m quite pissed off that he didn’t.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I alos agree that Haye gets beaten inside the first few rounds vs either Klitschko;
IF, and it’s a big IF, he fights like that.
The only way he can win big fights against big guys is to go after them, USE his speed and strength, and try to blast them out of there.
This cagey, tepid, negative stance and style only benefits bigger opponents, in my eyes.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good finale for Haye’s wasted year. He rightly ran for his life when faced with the prospect of a Wlad and/or Vitali fight, hoping to eek one out against the weakest HW titlist since 1983. The jive about being a “heavyweight champion” after the fight was as bile-inducing as expected. He is no such thing, and would get terminated by either of the actual HW champs.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 7, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Terminated"
lol
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure it’s such a damning performance from Haye really, he broke his hand early so was pretty much neutered offensively. Not sure what more people expected him to do considering. I realize American fans get hysterical about British fighters a lot of the time though.
by An0nymous on Nov 7, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He fought exactly the same throughout the entire fight.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 7, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT
Did he though?
Did he really?
Proof will be in the pudding, as we say. If he did, it’s a great showing. If he didn’t, then it was a load of bollocks.
Fair? :)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
<-- british
he moved backwards swifter than MJ at the motown awards
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
at least his glove wasn't sparkling
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aw man
:/ dun be like that
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did he break his hand before the fight started?
Because his style didn’t change one iota.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 7, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think his back was still hurting him. Those yellow stripes can be crippling.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 7, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ouch, harsh...
i wouldn’t go as far as to call him a coward, just over cautious, i couldn’t even fault his game plan, because right now, that man is sitting with a heavyweight title and ..lets face it
none of us can say that
thing is with heavyweights, we want world beaters, that big man, who can ba,g and talk..
klit’s aren’t as marketable as they should be, given the position they are in..
boxing is similar to music to me..
ali was my sex pistols, he was the greatest, he le tyou know that everything before him was just vulgar and everything after was pointless
chris arreolla is my joy division, and i’ll respect him for that till the day he retires
anyone can say im the greatest, but what arreolla does is say, “hey, im fucked”
Realizing that putting the time into the gym when he needs it and his heart on his sleeve..as he sweats his labours in the ring won’t actually wash away the things he’s afraid of
no matter how he’s hit, or if he’s down literally, or metaphorically something is always gonna be in the pit of his stomach like pubic hairs caught in a filthy shower drain
and you know those things don’t go down they intertwine, and lock together like a cyclone fence, water gets through but at the end of the day
something has to pick it out, might as well be boxing
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh shit, apologies for that, i got carried away in my own thoughts
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
chris arreolla is my joy division
Okay, then David Haye is my “Mars Volta”: A bunch of pretentious noise collected by people who don’t understand or appreciate real music.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 7, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lmfao..
thats a rec
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haye himself didn't even say that he definitely broke his hand.
What’s more a broken hand does not neutralize a fighter offensively.
I could now insert a fairly long list of references to fighters overcoming adversity and make some generic comment about ring warriors but I won’t, I will just say this. Haye could have fought much better against Valuev than he did, he could have hurt, knocked out and thoroughly beaten the beast but he didn’t. Instead he looked like a guy who,to quote thousands of British fans, “didn’’t want to fight”. He had a crap game plan and didn’t take risks when he should have. Please don’t make excuses for him and please don’t call me a “hysterical” American because I am in fact British and only mildly peeved.
by Drunken cutman on Nov 7, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think thats a little harsh, personally
This is the general view on here, and I personally am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he would have been much more aggressive If he hadn’t hurt his hand in the 2nd round like he said.
The fact is that it was widely known that for him to win any decision in Germany he would have to win the fight very clearly. A non-risk taking approach could not have been the game plan, because on how things go in Germany especially, it was near impossible to win that way. He adapted and won ugly, and for a guy with questionable stamina who’s heavily reliant on his punching power, rather than boxing skills, that was a really good performance.
I simply don’t get all this ‘he was scared to fight’. He has a nonsense trainer and a big mouth, but he won and he showed he did have the power to Really rock a guy that had never been wobbled before.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 8, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I only said he looked like the didn’t want to fight. I don’t like the whole “scared to fight stuff” either. In fact I even usually show a bias towards defensive fighters. my point is that he could probably have done a lot better against Valuev than he did and it’s a shame that he didn’t. The only thing which looked amazing was his power, the rest of him was a bit meh.
by Drunken cutman on Nov 8, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
was just generalizing
heard that scared line heaps. I agree that he could have done a lot better too. It just seemed harsh to not give the guy the benefit of the doubt when he said he hurt his hand early.
Clearly he should have been more offensive but I think the hand prevented that, and when he opened up in the last, I think he never went for the finish because he simply wasn’t able to (he later said the hand went completely there) . He didn’t look great all round I agree, but he found a way to win…
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 8, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think frustration is the word. Haye staggered Valuev with a clipped left hook. Imagine if he’d gone for it more. Maybe he’d have got clobbered by a counter, but he took an awful risk tonight. 10% more aggression would have raised his certainty of winning by a much bigger % than that.
by Falstaff on Nov 7, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
im actually losing respect for him more an dmore
its kinda sickening when you here all the media work he did on UK t.v talking like he was actually going to put pressure on him and push the pace non s top like a “cruiser weight” should
all garbage
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my thoughts.
“I’m going to embarrass him, and knock him out.”
OK, Dave, whatever you say. Be a good sport and tell us when you’re going to start, eh?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 7, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its a shame too
cos its his mouth backing his hands that’s fast making him a hot HW prospect, thats gonna lead us into the future..
and its also his mouth, that’s making us see, that we should forget everything he says
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
David Haye is the top twitter trend right now.
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Nov 7, 2009 6:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
till the CBS show airs, yes
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea fedor will be one later.
i think he was 1 when he signed with strikeforce.
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Nov 7, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CBS show, is gonna kill me, but i gotta stay up for it
hopefully sheilds gets taken late in the fight and broken >.>
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sucks for you
i like mayhem by tko as well.
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Nov 7, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully
im still in shock he’s an underdog…
mayhem has the skills, and has fought at 205.. he could take sheilds into deep water and drown him
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 7, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was about to say the same. “Valuev” is No. 5 too.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 7, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haye Valuev
I think David Haye executed his game plan to a tee… He was much busier, in and out, moving really well and staying away from Valuev’s lumbering shots (the guy can knock u out with a jab) Haye stuck to his game plan tonight, outboxing the champion and frustrating him with his movement, catching him with the scoring punches… enough to get the decision (even in Germany). I don’t think Haye himself really thought he was going to knock Valuev out tonight , even though he rocked him in the 12th. In my opinion Haye was the clear and justified winner. Roll on the Klitchkos, Haye’s got the skills to adapt to what’s put in front of him and find a way to win. I think he’s very much underated in that respect. Tme to show the undecided / still doubting public what his real fans already know.. . Well done David Haye!
P.S : Now I understand the fans who were pissed off at last months split decision between Froch and Direll, I guess it’s subjective depending on who you’re rooting for. As a Froch fan I gave a close desion to him on aggression and coming forward to fight, however Direll put on a master class on how to hit and move (much as Haye tonight)
This is why I love boxing…. so many variables! Keep up the good work BLH!
by Bee76 on Nov 7, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually felt Valuev was busier and far more aggressive than Haye, but yes Haye landed almost all of the fight’s best shots.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 7, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can appreciate where your coming from. I find Valuev to be totally one dimentional. I do believe, even though this wasn’t a classic, Haye can go on to upset the Klitschkos. I believe he has a the right mentality, determination, skill, strength and most importantly, self belief to break their hold on the the heavyweight division. Yes, he’s got a big mouth and talks trash for days but it’s getting him many column inches and in your great country he’ll be a marketing dream. Providing he keeps backing up his mouth!
by Bee76 on Nov 7, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haye can go on to upset the Klitschkos.
Haw haw haw, no. He’d have to get into the ring, first. Haye is basically where he belongs, now, riding shotgun in the WBA clown car with Ruiz, Holy, Chageav and Valuev. He’s along for the ride, nothing more.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 7, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haye wasn't busy
Unless you count how he reset every four seconds. It was a stinky fight, but the outcome was very predictable. Valuev rode out his welcome on the Make-Believe circuit, and now Haye will do the same.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Nov 7, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
'Haye is basically where he belongs, now, riding shotgun in the WBA clown car with Ruiz, Holy, Chageav and Valuev'
comedy, but even for one not normally so acid tongued, vitriolic in the extreme.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 8, 2009 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the big difference between Valuev and Wladamir is that Wlad has not got a chin, if Haye can hurt Valuev then he can definatley hurt Vlad!
by Sweet science on Nov 7, 2009 8:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No
The big difference between Wlad and Valuev is that Wlad has skills.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 7, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not a classic win
But I’m going to give Haye the benefit of the doubt, because Valuev is an awkward guy to box against, and beating him was a necessary evil to get a belt.
The important thing now is to realise that we could finally be on the brink of getting some exciting heavyweight title fights, my favourite of which would probably be Haye vs Arreola.
Just so long as he decides to swallow his pride and abandon the dream of unifying with the Klitschkos
by thirdslip on Nov 7, 2009 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wish we had compubox for this fight, because Valuev landed less than 20 punches on Haye.
I predicted Haye pts, and won £60 for it. Simples.
Anyone who thought Haye would go in for the KO is mental – seriously, that was the only way I could see Haye losing, if he went gun happy.
He went to GERMANY, took on their adopted champion, and won on POINTS.
How bloody often does that happen?
I look at it this morning the same way I viewed it last night – great boxing match, horrible fight.
I scored Froch Dirrell for Dirrell, and I scored this quite comfortably for Haye. Moving forwarded and missing does not earn you rounds.
Still, I guess it’s fine when Mayweather does it…..
My opinion on the Klitschos has stayed the same. He’ll do Wlad, and lose to Vitali.
Look at the positives from Haye:
1) The Stamina issue has been debunked.
2) The power is there at heavyweight.
"Chris Eubank lost his recent comeback fight on points ... the main one being that he's a total git."
by bazzlad on Nov 8, 2009 7:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
just agree on like everything in there
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 8, 2009 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with the first line
Valuev landed double digit punches pretty much every round. Most rounds, Haye didn’t land more than 5. Were Valuev’s punches power punches? No, but he was landing his jab pretty consistently, and using it to force Haye into fighting Valuev’s fight. In the early rounds, Haye was landing a few jabs to the midsection, but the rest of the fight he just threw a flurry or two at some point in the round, with 2/3 of those punches getting blocked by Valuev as well. Landing one good punch doesn’t win you a round in my book when the other guy lands 10-15 jabs, unless the fighter gets rocked by that one good punch.
I don’t think it’s a robbery or anything like that, but I find it interesting how many people defend Haye after this fight who lambasted Dirrell after the Froch fight. They fought pretty similarly, only Haye didn’t clinch and Dirrell had a higher workrate.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Nov 8, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I saw that comment in the rbr thread when reading it afterwards....
Like bazzlad, I thought Dirrell won the Froch fight. Not as wide as was mainly felt on here, but I thought he was the better fighter nonetheless.
I think it would be pretty hypocritical to defend Haye after blasting Dirrell’s tactics. I’d like to think most people who did the latter would simply just think that Haye was lucky to get the decision, particularly in Germany. Plus, afterwards we found that Haye had to fight like that because of his hand. It seemed like a crazy plan to be That cautious in Germany, but he adapted. I’m sure he could have been a bit more aggressive otherwise. Dirrell didn’t have that…excuse, if you will, even though he probably won more clearly than Haye.
Would be interesting to see the compubox stats for the fight…..I guess the number’s somewhere in between ‘20 punches all night’ and ‘double digits per round’
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree on everything
There was not enough boxing to make it a “great boxing match.” Maybe decent due to the last round. There were many comparisons to Valuev-Holyfield.
You can’t compare what Haye did last night to what Mayweather does.
The stamina issue is not debunked, because Haye did not throw enough to get tired. Running around should not tire out a fighter with Haye’s body.
I thought he could beat Wlad before last night. He changed my mind.
by Polish Rifle on Nov 8, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I scored Froch Dirrell for Dirrell, and I scored this quite comfortably for Haye. Moving forwarded and missing does not earn you rounds.
Still, I guess it’s fine when Mayweather does it…..
???? Mayweather moves forward and misses?
Look at the positives from Haye:
1) The Stamina issue has been debunked.
2) The power is there at heavyweight.
1) Disagree. He mall-walked the entire fight.
2) Agree. He thumped Valuev pretty damn hard, and it’s not like he’d put him through the wringer before that.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 8, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, not 'Mayweather moves forward and misses'
I think he meant the analogy more in terms of staying out of range and being ultra cautious(his reputation is for being a genius defensive fighter after all), although not to the same extent as Haye the other night.
Clearly, it wasn’t the most energetic 12 rounds he’s ever boxed, but it was still a nice surprise for me that he had so much gas in the last.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
by BrianBrock on Nov 10, 2009 5:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe people expected David Haye to stand toe to toe with a guy that weighs nearly 100 pounds more than him. Boxing fans seem to get dumber by the day.
David Haye would be suicidal to stand in front of him and trade blows. With a guy like Valuev and with your first fight in the heavyweight division you have to be careful.
The obvious problem is with Valuev you can’t go and replicate the conditions in sparring unless you know a bunch of 7 foot 320 pound boxers. He had to be as cautious as possible and try to eek out a decision rather than put himself in front of his opponent against a guy that weighs nearly 100 pounds more.
He did what was required to win in a fight where he was away from home and facing an opponent of the likes he has never faced before. I’d say it’s not a bad coming out party for his first fight in the division.
Much respect to Valuev but this opens up a lot more interesting fights. I think Haye needs a few tune up fights because moving divisions is no small thing. He needs to get things right and work out what he is going to do in the HW division.
I think he has a pretty decent way of figting for a lot of the guys in the division but he needs to be more aggressive. Even as a relatively small heavyweight he’s quite powerful and fast.
I’d put money on him against either Klitchsko if he adapts to the division well in the next 4 or 5 fights. I saw exactly what I wanted to see from him.
Not a popular opinion but I did pick Pacman over DLH and you guys were quick to bring up the weight draining bullshit after he made you look like asses so I’ll play devils advocate again just to see you change the tune your singing.. again ;)
by MannyPacquiao on Nov 8, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe people expected David Haye to stand toe to toe with a guy that weighs nearly 100 pounds more than him. Boxing fans seem to get dumber by the day.
I didn’t expect him to stand toe-to-toe, but I did expect that he might put forth a bit more effort than Evander Holyfield did, which he did not. It was a miserable fight to watch. A lot of that is Valuev, but plenty of it is Haye, who easily got in and out whenever he wanted to. Too often he stood around doing nothing, and you could easily argue Valuev won the fight. I don’t (again, scored it for Haye), but it wasn’t exactly a thrilling or enjoyable performance by Haye. It was smart in some ways — especially since he won. But had he lost, he had no one to blame but himself and his own inactivity in the fight. He lucked out with the judges.
With a guy like Valuev and with your first fight in the heavyweight division you have to be careful.
It wasn’t his first fight in the heavyweight division. He fought Monte Barrett last year and had fought there before.
Not a popular opinion but I did pick Pacman over DLH and you guys were quick to bring up the weight draining bullshit after he made you look like asses
Why is it “bullshit”? It’s a fact that Oscar was drained beyond belief. FREDDIE ROACH will tell you that. He said he could see during the referee’s instructions that it looked like they’d tried to hydrate Oscar in the locker room on fight night. Manny didn’t “make me look like an ass,” he beat the shit out of Oscar and deserves credit for that, which he’s been given. Just because I’m willing to point out that Oscar wasn’t exactly at his best physically doesn’t mean I’m trying to dump on King Pacquiao the Infallible.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Nov 8, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On a lighter note, anyone see the balls up here?
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/139000/
"Chris Eubank lost his recent comeback fight on points ... the main one being that he's a total git."
by bazzlad on Nov 8, 2009 8:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Baffling scorecard from the Spanish judge
I was bemused when I saw the first card read 114-114. A draw? The only argument for that would be on the basis of ring generalship. And it is a weak argument in my opinion. Valuev controlled the ring for most the fght with his left jab, but he was well-beaten by a faster, more skillful fighter. Haye landed hard, clean punches almost every round, culminating in Valuev’s wobble in the final round. He was effective in his sporadic moments of aggression and showed brilliant defence at times, constantly making Valuev miss. He made the giant Russian look slow and sloppy. Haye’s reflexes were impressive and he fought the right fight, avoiding almost every attack Valuev launched then picking his moments to execute a quick attack. Usually a flush right hand on the temple or jaw. These moments were ultimately the difference in the fight.
The Russian was unable to land clean shots on Haye – in fact he missed the majority of shots he threw. No matter how busy a fighter is, he can’t win a fight by missing. Haye’s connection rate was far superior and the punches he landed were precise and meaningful. Awful judgment scoring that fight level, in my opinion.
by maxirap on Nov 8, 2009 2:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I scored it level;
and so did at least three people I know. The widest Haye card I’ve seen was 115-113, which was given to him both by SC and a really good friend of mine who lists Haye as his favourite fighter.
If either fighter nicked it, I think it was Valuev, and this isn’t coming from a disgruntled Haye hater, rather someone that cheered loud enough so my neighbours have complained about the noise when the decision was announced.
I wanted Haye to win, and I’m delighted he did. But there is nothing “awful” about scoring it as you see it.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Nov 8, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a simple numerical acumulation
It wasn’t like the judge looked at the whole fight and thought “hey that was even I’ll score it a draw”. He just happened to score the same number of rounds for each fighter as the fight went along. I’m really not sure why that’s so objectionable.
by Drunken cutman on Nov 8, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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