so basically, Leonard is better than manny in all areas (except durability), Palomino is more durable, and since duran did well against them, and also against a southpaw in Camacho, therefore he beats manny?

that’s a whole lot of boxing math right there.. haha.

duran gets blasted out in 2 rounds by manny. similar to the way he had no chance and nearly got his head taken off vs tommy hearns.

duran had no chance at all vs hears and his height andn power, duran would have no chance against mannys speed and power.

to use a fight like duran and camacho to prove a point is absurd. camacho? seriously? lol.

i love duran, hes arguably the best lightweight ever but cant agree with anything at all in this article.

but its talk like this that really hurts modern boxing. We all recognize that we are not in boxing’s glory days. But hearing “this modern fighter would have gotten his ass kicked by so-and-so” really hurts the credibility of modern boxers and the entire sport in the eyes of the casual fans.

have we actually measured speed and power, psi’s and such? Or are we just going by what we see, saw, and feel in our subjective hearts and minds opinions? Was mantle better than jeter, langford better than klitschko, jordan better than kobe? The list goes on. Or are each of them actually just locked in their respective periods in time? When Wilt Chamberlain was still alive, he suggested he could have averaged 50 points a night in the ‘modern’ NBA. Some say yes, no, maybe. When you get hit in the ring, punches come in different distinctions, especially from special fighters. Duran wasn’t called hands of stone for nothing. Sugar Ray was the total package, but not really a one shot stunner. Hearns did have the stunner. I like to think Pacquiao delivers the kind of punch that makes you think twice about yourself, second guess your original plan, as this is the look his opponents seem to get between rounds. Certain athletes you just have to appreciate in their own light.

I don’t have a strong opinion either way on this. I would say, however, that Pacquiao does not have Tommy Hearns power. Pound for pound maybe they’re in the same ballpark, but not in absolute terms – no way.

Marvin Hagler was a fairly powerful guy too, and Duran stood up to him pretty well.

I think Duran would have a better shot against Mayweather than he would have against Pacquiao.

Pacquiao has power but not the firepower that Leonard brought to the table.

I strongly doubt the veracity of this statement.

Duran 4eva. seeing him take it to guys like Barkley and Hearns…on top of Leonard and others…..Pacman has beaten good guys and done so convincingly…but not guys with the pedigree and resume that Duran faced. Duran wins based on his experience with unquestionable hall of famers. Duran against Mayweather’s a good one too…..I see Duran doing better than Castillo with that relentless pressure and hard hitting he brought….people also don’t give credit to Duran’s defense….a guy doesn’t go up that far in weight and fight that many great guys without having some while not flashy, clearly effective defense.

My father said the same thing about boxers of Duran’s generation. When boxing fans who’ve been around a while assess the scene, classic boxer X always seems to beat contemporary boxer Y in this kinds of analysis. I’m 39 myself, and I’ve been following the sport for a while, but I’m skeptical about these kinds of cross generational comparisons.

You see the same thing comparing music of different generations as well. Or literature. Older is always seen as better by people who were around for the previous generation of talent.

It’s ridiculous to say that a boxer has faced a great fast guy, so of course he can beat any fast guy. He’s faced a great strong guy, so of course he can beat any strong guy. He’s faced a great southpaw, so of course he can beat any southpaw. It completely ignores the fact that styles make fights. I don’t think anyone watches Pacquiao and thinks, wow, reminds me of Leonard (and that’s completely laying aside the fact that Leonard decided to sit and trade with Duran in that fight instead of using his best weapons). Duran had a long career, and fought a few guys like Pacquiao, but they don’t have the cachet that Leonard has. If he needs a popular 80s guy to compare Pacquiao to, he should consider how Duran would have done against Aaron Pryor.

The fact we are having this conversation speaks greatly about Manny but Duran at lightweight was just beastly…. Heck even at welterweight he beat the golden boy of his era…

1. Freddie said so.

2. The reason I like Manny so much is because he reminds me of Duran. It’s fighters like them that distinguish themselves as warriors, not just boxers. That being said, head to head, I think Duran simply has too much for Manny. I’m not saying that Duran completely walks all over Manny — I do think Manny would have his moments. It’s that stylewise, Manny doesn’t match up well with Duran. Here’s why:

Chin

Duran’s chin is up there with the all time “tough men” of the sport. His getting dropped twice at lightweight doesn’t really mean a whole lot. Watch the fights and you’ll see that he was never really hurt at either time. They were both flash knockdowns facilitated by slick, underrated puncher de Jesus. Duran didn’t see those punched coming. As for the Hearns fight, I think we can all agree that was by no means the best version of Roberto Duran vs perhaps, the best version of Tommy Hearns (rumored to be so good at 154 that SRL wanted no part of him at that weight class — with good reason). Hearns had the style, speed, power(possibly the hardest punching Jr.Middleweight ever) and length (and, hence, leverage) to put even the concrete chinned Duran away.

But then there’s Cuevas, Leonard, Barkley, Hagler — all big punchers, all of them way above Duran’s natural weight. Did any of them drop Duran? No. Duran took heavy, heavy shots vs Barkley and stayed up, eking out a SD. That was at 160, Duran was going on 38.

Does Manny have what it takes to put him away? Sorry, I seriously doubt that. I’m sorry, but comparing Manny’s punching power at 147 to Hearns’ at 154 is a bit ridiculous.

Speed

Duran has dealt with speedy, slick fighters and has shown a degree of vulnerability to that style. In his rematch against Leonard, he was frustrated by Leonard’s constant movement and refusal to engage. But watch the fight closely and tell me if Leonard was really dominating him, landing substantial shots? Or was he playing tag?

Pacquiao is fleet of hand and foot. But he isn’t a “slick” boxer. His bread and butter is still his blitzing, mid-range, buzzsaw, unorthodox-angle attack. ATTACK is the operative word. Meaning he’s not going to keep his distance from Duran. He will fight him. That would be a mistake. Regardless of speed, Duran has never shown any problems fighting offensive minded guys. He loves it. Yes, the exchanges between Duran and Pacquiao would be enough to make any fight fan salivate, but this fight fan has to believe that Duran would have the edge here. Pacquiao may have the edge in speed, but not by much. Even Leonard admitted, Roberto was a lot faster than he looked.

Versatility

Duran’s aggression, macho persona, and dirty tactics may leave some with the impression that he is little more than a street fighter. Street fighter he was, but he also possessed of one of the most brilliant boxing minds ever. He loved to just throw down, it’s true. But a closer look at his best performances reveals a mastery over even the subtlest pugilistic techniques: half and quarter turns that place him at angles to hit his opponents where they can’t hit him, head and shoulder feints that drop opponents’ guards and confuse them to no end, arm locks while in a clinch or in the trenches, etc…

When you talk of a “complete” fighter, Duran comes very, very close. He could box outside, inside, he could brawl (No one brawled like him. No one.). The variety of punches Duran threw were second to none. His left hook was lethal, his uppercuts to the body and head were surgical, and his “coup de gras” right hand was still heavy enough to drop jr. middleweights and middleweights. That right hand would find its way to Manny’s face consistently. Could he take that shot, over and over again? Remember, the last three guys Manny has faced have ALL been left hand dominant (Oscar, Hatton, Cotto).

 Duran’s jab was never the best as, like Manny’s it was mainly used to get the range, and set up for bigger shots. When he committed to it, as in the Barkley fight, it could work like a charm.

Competition

Duran fought at a time when boxing was sort of experiencing a second golden age, at a time when the lower weight classes were stacked with talent. Pacquiao’s era was pretty good too when speaking of the lower weights, but I have to give the 70s and 80s the edge here as sooo many fighters from these decades are already in the hall of fame. I think Pacquiao would have been good enough to compete in that era too. He might have ended up with a few more “L’s” but in those days, losses were more tolerated, accepted as just part of the game. Those decades bred some of the best fighters the sport has ever known, and Duran was the best of that crop.

So how does this fight go? Say 15 rounds? At 147?

Both guys have their moments early but with Pacquiao’s footspeed helping to put some of the early rounds in the bag for him. Manny’s irrepressible desire to mix it up however would cost him dearly as he finds that Roberto’s offense is the best he’s ever seen with every shot landing like a brickbat. They taunt each other throughout, each of them waving the other in, tapping their chins, pounding their bodies, but as the fight moves into the latter half, it’s clear that Roberto is the more resilient and his well placed body punches have taken their toll on Pacquiao’s legs. Pacquiao begins to fight more flat footed, depending more on his power than his speed. Roberto muscles in, throwing more than a few shots to questionable locations like hips, thighs, and other areas south of the border. Manny, ever the sportsman, is appalled at these tactics and, enraged, goes for a 9, 10, 11 round rally, surprising Roberto with his courage and his tenacity. Roberto’s chin and defensive abilities take over though as he weathers the Pacquiao onslaught. As Manny’s aggression dies down, Roberto turns surgical and breaks Manny down, trapping him along the ropes and in corners where he unloads, prompting Roach to throw in the towel. Roberto Duran, TKO 13. Roberto is surprisingly respectful of his opponent afterward, and when Pacquiao is asked whether he wants a rematch, he replies “Anytime, anywhere.”

Least that’s how I see it. =)

Roberto looks a lot like Manny in that picture.

Pacs resume at 135 and above compared to Durans is like comparing a garden gnome to the statue of liberty . Dave Diaz , the ancient and way past it De La Hoya , Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto . Hardly world beating stuff . Manny had to life n death fights with a featherweight ( Marquez) . Duran could kayo middleweights , Cotto went 10 with Manny like someone said . The hype is out of control .

great post Areglado . Spot on!