There Can Be Only One: Every Division, One Fight
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2009 5:14 AM EST
in Features and Boxing Commentary
36 comments
As we wait impatiently for March to roll around and pit the two best pound-for-pound fighters in boxing against one another, I got to thinking about what one single fight in any given division would be most desirable for me as a boxing fan.
It's not always just the guys I have ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in my personal rankings, or the guys ranked 1-2 in anyone's rankings. It's not always about significance. Sometimes it's just about making a great fight. So I figured, why not run through the divisions and figure out what fight I'd most want to see in every division?
Heavyweight: Wladimir Klitschko v. David Haye
Not Wlad-Vitali, even though that would "settle it" and would surely be a huge, totally unique fight in the history of major boxing. For me, it's Wlad-Haye, because I think that is potentially the most exciting bout out there. Haye's speed, power and ability to move around the ring makes him a threat. Neither he nor Wladimir have the best chins on the planet. The last time I saw Wladimir consider himself to be in any danger was against Calvin Brock, who had opened up a pretty nasty cut. For as much guff as Wlad takes for being too cautious when it seems he could turn up the heat and put someone away, it's understandable that people think this way. Because when Wlad turned up the heat on Brock, he knocked him out fierce.
I get the feeling Haye would get Wladimir in a bit of a spot, and get him out of his comfort zone. They've also built up some real animosity over the last year or so, and Wlad might take more than his usual business-like approach to this matchup.
Cruiserweight: Tomasz Adamek v. Steve Cunningham II
I know Adamek is campaigning at heavy now, but it's no doubt he can still make the cruiserweight limit, and his team has said that if the right fight (money) came along, they'd do it. I still feel a bit miffed that we never got a rematch of this fight, one of the all-time greatest in the relatively short history of the division. I like Marco Huck just fine, and Cunningham-Huck II would be my second choice, but Adamek-Cunningham still seems unfinished to me. That's a fight that could have turned into a great, great rivalry, and it just didn't come about. I still foolishly hold out hope we'll see it happen.
Light Heavyweight: Jean Pascal v. Tavoris Cloud
My 1-2 here are Bernard Hopkins and Chad Dawson. To be totally honest, as much as I respect both of them and feel that fight should happen, it's not exactly one I'd be clamoring to see. Given their styles, it would run the risk of being not just a "disappointing" fight, but a downright horrible style clash.
Given the likelihood of Hopkins-Dawson being a stinker and the fact that I don't expect to see either of them in too exciting a fight, I turn to my Nos. 3 and 4 guys in the division. Pascal has a run of exciting fights going for him, and Cloud was an awesome ball of energy when he got a chance to step up and face Clinton Woods on ESPN2 this summer. Cloud had a non-stop motor and I'd love to see him take that aggressive nature into the ring against Pascal. Simply put, I think this is a fight that could be just magnificent fun to watch.
Super Middleweight: Lucian Bute v. Arthur Abraham
I don't mean to short Andre Ward, but I'd love to see Bute and Abraham match tactics. I think this could be an explosive sort of chess match fight. We've seen Bute hurt, and I think Abraham is stronger and far better than Librado Andrade. This is one of the harder divisions to pick, because I have to shut off my brain telling me how impossible many things are given the ongoing Super Six World Boxing Classic.
Honorable Mention: Carl Froch v. Librado Andrade
This. Would be. A war. Either man against Sakio Bika would also be awesome, and I hope Bika-Andrade happens now that both of them could use one another.
Middleweight: Kelly Pavlik v. Paul Williams
Almost happened several times now, but hasn't. Now, it has to. Look, not only do they have a score to settle with all the outside the ring back-and-forth, but it's easily the best possible fight at 160 pounds, and tremendously intriguing on paper. Yes, PW is a hell of a fighter and has shown he can get through a war, but Pavlik is a legit middleweight and still hits like all hell. Plus his best punch (the straight right) is commonly known as the southpaw killer. Styles make fights, and I think these styles might make a Fight of the Year contender.
Junior Middleweight: James Kirkland v. Alfredo Angulo
I'm not saying these are the two best fighters in the division, but this division is awful. I'm not saying there aren't good fighters, it's just that almost all of them are unlikely to match up with another one and give you a pleasing fight to watch. So I'm willing to put off any decision and wait for Kirkland to get back in the ring. There's really nothing I'm rooting for more than JK getting out of jail, getting his career back on track, and keeping it on track. He's SO much fun to watch, so ferocious and reckless and fearless. He's very, very strong, takes a good shot, and fights like it's what he was born to do. Angulo's no slouch as a pressure fighter and this is a fight I can't see going past four or five rounds, but my God what a scrap it could be.
Alternate Choice: Sergio Martinez-Kermit Cintron II
I thought their first fight stunk, but after the weird restart when they kicked up the fire, it got better. Who knows? There's nothing else I think would be much better among the relevant fighters, either.
Welterweight: Manny Pacquiao v. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Well, duh.
Backup Choice: Shane Mosley v. Joshua Clottey
I was nearly as bummed about this potential fight getting scrapped as I was by the Pavlik-Williams disaster. Clottey is tougher than leather left out in the desert sun, and Mosley still has gas in the tank. I thought this was a terrific fight on paper.
Junior Welterweight: Timothy Bradley v. Marcos Maidana
Plenty of attractive fights to be made in this division, many centering on Tim Bradley. Bradley-Devon Alexander, Bradley-Hatton, Bradley-Khan, Bradley-Holt II. But mixing the ever-improving game of Bradley with the explosive Maidana sounds like a killer deal. Bradley's got a lot of guts and has some of that Shane Mosley blood in him, a guy who can really box but has that desire to throw down when it gets right down to it. And Maidana is perfectly willing to get into a war, trusting his firepower to win out.
Lightweight: Juan Manuel Marquez v. Edwin Valero
Marquez is on the last leg of his career, probably, and Valero is as dangerous a puncher as we've seen in years. Part of me thinks that Marquez would have his lights turned out early at this point. But Valero has never faced a boxer near Marquez's level, either.
This is another division where there are plenty of really good fights on paper. Marquez-Diaz II, Marquez-Soto, Valero-Soto (really might be the best), Valero-Funeka, Marquez-Funeka, Valero-Katsidis, etc.
Junior Lightweight: Robert Guerrero v. Malcolm Klassen II
One of the year's most underrated fights was Klassen-Guerrero on the Diaz-Malignaggi I undercard. The HBO team played it as though Guerrero routed Klassen; he didn't. Klassen fell into a hole early, but stormed back into the fight and was right there until the end, giving Guerrero a hell of a fight. I'd love to see these two hook up again.
Featherweight: Chris John v. Cristobal Cruz
I know this probably isn't anyone else's pick, but I think this one could be an absolute blast and a wild, wild fight. John came to the U.S. this year and beat Rocky Juarez twice, though the fight in Houston was scored a draw. But in both fights, John got into trouble when Juarez let his hands go.
Cristobal Cruz has no trouble letting his hands go. He's as reckless and relentless as they come, and I get the feeling he'd be absolute hell for John, who also showed a willingness to mix it up that many of us didn't know was there before the first Juarez fight.
Junior Featherweight: Celestino Caballero v. Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym
Juan Manuel Lopez is going to featherweight, so he's out here. My pick in his coming absence is Caballero-Poonsawat, which would be quite a sight. Caballero is a bit under six feet tall, while Poonsawat is listed at 5'3" or so and might not even be that tall.
Bantamweight: Yonnhy Perez v. Joseph Agbeko II
Much as I'd like to see Hozumi Hasegawa face Perez, I think I'd rather see a rematch of this fantastic war even more. It's just a better fight on paper, I feel. Perez and Agbeko proved their worth in their amazing Halloween scrap, and I hope we see it again in 2010.
Junior Bantamweight: Nonito Donaire v. Vic Darchinyan II
Only fight in the division I'm really interested in. There are plenty of fights I'd be happy to watch, but this one kind of has to happen. I think Nonito beats Vic basically every time, but Vic's power is always going to be a potential game-changer. Still, they've been talking about each other for over two years now, and it's time they settle it in the ring.
Flyweight: Koki Kameda v. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Pong and Daisuke Naito had a hell of a rivalry, but with Kameda putting Naito on the back burner, Pong now has a different WBC titlist to chase. I think Kameda dominates this fight; he clearly beat Naito, and Pong has probably lost a step or two. Kameda is too strong and too fast. Really, it's a bit of a waiting game I think. I expect Kameda to put this division out to pasture for a while until someone else rises, or he moves up in weight.
Junior Flyweight: Ivan Calderon v. Brian Viloria
Really, I think I'd rather see Viloria-Solis II, but the potential torch-passing here is too much for me to pass up. Given that Calderon has clearly slowed down some, I think a focused Viloria might well put an exclamation point on this one. For years, Brian was frustrating. He seems to finally "get it" fully now, and with Calderon struggling twice this year with the more limited Rodel Mayol, this one could see the Hall of Fame-bound "Iron Boy" in real trouble.
Strawweight: Roman Gonzalez v. Raul Garcia
My 1-2 in the division. I've never had any problem admitting this is easily the hardest division in the sport to follow and to accurately analyze unless you specifically make it your mission to follow it, which is difficult enough.
Those being my picks, what are yours?
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Mine
HW: Bro Battle!
Cruiserweight: Agree Adamek v. USS Steve
LHW: Dawson v. Cloud (Agree that Hopkins Dawson will be boring but should happen, this one could be fun)
SMW: Bute v. Ward (This would be stupid awesome)
MW: Pavlik v. PWill (Just got to do it)
Jr. Middle: Foreman v. Martinez (Speed vs. Speed with a chin…could be fun or a stinker…hoping for fun)
Welter: Pac vs Money (duh!)
Jr Welter: Bradley v. Maidana (Too much awesome)
Jr Lightweight Valero v. Katsidis (I want a war!)
Lightweight: Soto v. Linares (It could be awesome…maybe…if Jorge doesn’t suck…)
Featherweight: Gamboa v. Cruz (Grizzled vet v. the bomber it would be awesome Cruz can’t make a bad fight)
jr feather: Molitor v. Poonswat (I saw molitor and liked what i saw…liked it)
Bantam: Perez v. Hozumi (Yeah im taking it)
jr bantam: Evil vic v. Donaire (Bay area represent!)
flyweight: Koki Kameda v. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (yup)
Jr fly: Ivan Calderon v. Brian Viloria (yeah too bad seeing ivan’s super defensive skills fade away, a little sad but a good torch-passing as you mentioned)
straw: I have no idea who any of these people are cause this division is never on TV ever…
jr feather: Molitor v. Poonswat (I saw molitor and liked what i saw…liked it)
Did you see him get the living crap beaten out of him by Caballero, and have you seen him since then? He’s also fighting at feather now.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
It was completely at featherweight….gah
by waldo47 on Dec 23, 2009 5:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
mosley berto is cancled???
Or are you referring to when it was cancled earlier this year?
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by thebitb on Dec 22, 2009 6:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Mosley-Clottey
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
There’s really nothing I’m rooting for more than JK getting out of jail, getting his career back on track, and keeping it on track
I second that. Man, I dig watching Kirkland go to work, reminds me of a southpaw Nigel Benn. Vicious mindset, fearless execution. Of all the fights you listed, Kirkland/Angulo is potentially the most brutal – love that fight.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Bradley
I"ve never seen Tim in a bad fight, but put him in with Maidana and theres guaranteed fireworks. James Kirkland when you get out, PUHLEEEZZE get it together, I’d love to see this kid for the next 4-5 yrs. Pavlik- Williams WILL happen, neither can make as much money anywhere else. Wlad makes Haye look like the Poser he is,mismatch. Bute-Abraham, I’m droolin’ over that fight. Valero-Soto, Marquez MAY be a little past it for this fight, as I think Valero has freakish power. Peace!!
Got
to be looking forward to Kirkland returning—and if it was against Angulo (with a rust shaker bout first)! Author’s others choices are good too, especially love Abraham/Bute, Bradley/Maidana, etc. Love to see Nonito spank Vic again.
by Don From Prov on Dec 22, 2009 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Mine
HW – Wlad vs. Vitali – For the significance
CW – Adamek vs. Wlodarczyk. Two iron chinned Poles with big punches going at it. Wlodarczyk fights are usually pretty fun. Huck-Wlodarczyk would be a good fight too. So would Huck-Arslan. There are actually a lot of fun, aggressive fighters in this division.
LHW – Dawson vs. Hopkins. Absolutely has to happen in my mind. Although I love the idea of Pascal-Cloud. That one has the makings of an absolute classic war, on paper. Either of those guys against Shumenov would be great as well.
SMW – Arthur Abraham vs. Librado Andrade. This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. But there are tons of awesome fights that could be made in this division. Froch vs. Andrade. Bute vs. Abraham. Bute vs. Kessler. Bute vs. Ward. Bika vs. Froch.
MW – This is like my prospect super dream fight, and I know it will probably never happen (and if it does, it will be years from now), but I just love this matchup on paper. Fernando Guerrero vs. Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam. Two athletic freaks who are like mirror images of each other. Both guys can box, but like to trade too much for their own good.
JMW – Another prospect-prospect fight really intrigues me here, although this one I think is much more likely to happen way down the road. Shawn Porter vs. Omar Henry. The guy used by Pacquiao to mimic Cotto versus the guy who’s been called the Cotto-clone.
WW – Mayweather vs. Pacquiao. For the historical significance.
JWW – Marcos Maidana vs. Juan Urango. Bombs away!
LW – Katsidis vs. Valero. On paper, I think this is one of the best fights that one could reasonably expect might be made.
SFW – Assuming his last boring performance was just an aberration, the most fun looking fight is Jason Litzau vs. Terdsak Jendaeng. Jendaeng comes to bring it, and Litzau is often one of those Pascal types. For whatever reasons, there aren’t a lot of fighters that interest me in this weight class though.
FW – John vs. Gamboa. I think this fight could be wild, and while it wouldn’t be historically significant right this minute, I think it could be in time. I love this weight class though. Lots of guys who make great fights. Cruz vs. Santiago would be another great one.
SBW – Bernard Dunne vs. Rendall Munroe. Imagine the number of punches that would be thrown in this one. Plus, Dunne has become one of my favorite fighters, but it’s not a foregone conclusion that Munroe would be able to knock him out. Munroe beat Kiko Martinez, who beat Dunne, so there’s another plotline there. Another good one is Kratingdaenggym-Nishioka. Or Hasegawa-Nishioka, which seems relatively likely to happen at this point.
BW – Perez-Agbeko II looks good to me
Supa Dupa Fly – Darchinyan-Donaire II
Flyweight – Pong vs. Kaovichit, which would be a damn fun fight to watch. I’ll take Pong vs. Koki though. Fight should be coming soon for real, since Pong is the interim titlist for Koki’s belt. If Pong convincingly beats Koki, I think it puts him in the hall of fame, FWIW.
LFW – Viloria vs. Segura. Two hard punching fighters who can box in a division not known for guys who can punch.
SW – Chocolatito vs. Oleydong Sithsamerchai.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
heavyweight – can i pass on this? the division is the worst and least competitive its been in my lifetime. even worse than botha and shultz were fighting for titles and the dark days of early 80s pre Tyson. i would like to see Arreola vs Tua though. so Tua vs. Arreola is my pick.
cruiserweight – Tomasz Adamek v. Steve Cunningham II of course.
light heavy – dawson vs. pascal
supermiddle – we are getting just about everything here with the super 6 so i’ll go with Bute vs. Bika.
Middleweight – Williams vs. Pavlik of course.
Jr. Middle – Martinez vs. Angulo
Welterweight – pacman vs floyd of course.
Jr. Welter – Bradley vs. Khan – bye bye khan.
Lightweight- Valero vs JMM – bye bye JMM.
Jr. Light – ill go with Robert Guerrero v. Malcolm Klassen II too i guess. kinda a weak division.
featherweight – john vs. gamboa – meh. i love john but hes boring.
jr. feather – Caballero vs. Lopez – i love caballero in this one. Lopez is moving up, shame its not happening. maybe caballero will follow him up.
bantamweight – Hasegawa vs. King Kong. awesome fight. id pay to see it.
super fly – Nonito Donaire v. Vic Darchinyan II of course.
flyweight – Koki Kameda v. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam as well.
jr. fly – baby boy vs. viloria of course.
straw – a combacking ricardo lopez vs. the whole division in one night. my money is on finito.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
Robert Guerrero v. Malcolm Klassen II?
Are you kidding me? I agree Guerrero didn’t rout Klassen. But he was in control the whole fight and pretty much showed he was a class above. A 2nd fight would pretty much be a repeat of the first fight. Which was really just an average fight excitement wise
by Violent Demise on Dec 22, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions
soto and guerrero is probably a better fight. forgot all about him and the south africans.
come to think of it i would probably watch the south africans like fana, klassen and Baloyi fight each other again over ghost anyday.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Dec 22, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
He was absolutely not in control the whole fight. He got tired and Klassen started beating him up pretty good. The HBO team did call it as if he were in control the whole fight.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
My list;
I’m not going to bother with weight classes I know nothing about, as this would simply be postulation for postulation’s own sake. I am however going to list my three dream fights in the divisions I do have opinions on, so here goes…. :)
HW
Tua vs Arreola. The Art of War.
Wlad vs. Vitali. The biggest Klit clash since “Pussy Passion 8: High School Years”…..
Haye vs Adamek. A fight that should have been made at cruiser, but would still rock.
(Honorable mention: Holyfield vs The Crowd Of People Standing In His Way Trying To Physically Stop Him
Entering The Ring. A fight that simply won’t be made, unfortunately.)
CW
Adamek vs Cunningham. Agree totally. No more to be said on this.
Huck vs Banks. Sing it with me!! “There could be trouble… ahead…..”
Hopkins vs Adamek. It caught my imagination, and I really think Hopkins could do him. I’d love to find out.
LHW
Dawson vs. Hopkins. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Hopkins vs Tarver II. I will never get tired of watching Nard beat the shit out of Tarver. More of the same please…
Pascal vs Cloud. I’ve really liked Pascal for a while, and Cloud looks really good too.
SMW
Kessler vs Ward. Preferably with a ref that doesn’t allow a third fist.
Bute vs Dirrell. This one would be brilliant, I think. Bute is fast enough to catch Dirrell, and then we’d see fireworks.
Andrade vs Froch. I think Andrade wins, but in an absolute slugfest.
MW
Gevor vs Sturm. In any other country than Germany.
Pavlik vs Abraham. I know Abraham struggles to make 160, but I can dream, right?
Pavlik vs Williams. I now think Pavlik wins (I had no opinion before) but both these guys deserve this fight, maybe for different reasons.
JMW
Kirkland vs Cintron. Lets have some fun.
Williams vs Martinez II. Strangely, I think a rematch could be even better at 154….
Martinez vs Kirkland. Maybe too soon for JK, but this fight would be immense.
WW
Mayweather vs. Pacquiao. Of course.
Torres vs Brook. This would be one of those that you would not stop watching to go and put the kettle on…
Cotto vs Berto. I think Berto is drastically over-rated, and Cotto would have a field day with him. It’d be fun while it lasted though….
JWW
Maidana vs Khan. Amir: Stop bullshitting, stop the whining, and fight someone who is a challenge. Or fuck off.
Hatton vs Bradley. #1 and #2 in the division. Who wins? (Probably Hatton, I think….)
Urango vs Holt. “Please could anyone easily shocked by gratuitous violence look away now…..”
LW
Katsidis vs Valero. The boxing equivalent of “come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough”.
Guzman vs Escobedo. A sure-fire and entertaining way to find out how much these guys have left.
Valero vs Funeka. Valero to do what Guzman couldn’t, and bring down the big guy in a war….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
If I could make one fight in each division, I’d try to answer a lot of questions that I have personally about fighters. Here we go, in order, smallest to largest.
105 – Roman Gonzalez v Oleydong Sithsamerchai
I have a confession to make. I have not seen a fight at 105 since Ivan Calderon left the division. I love 108 and 112, but I have no idea what is going on at 105. It seems the fighters never fight one another and people come and vanish quicker than I can passively follow. With that said, I’d just have a Ring champ crowned. It’d make the division easier to follow.
108 – Brian Viloria v Ivan Calderon
I agree 100% here. It is either a star is born performance, or an all time great affirmation performance.No wrong can come of this fight in terms of creating intrigue for some of the smallest fighters.
112 – Pongsaklek Wonjongkam vs Koki Kameda
Again, I agree. This would be for the Ring belt and is the biggest name value fight in the division.
115 – Nonito Donaire vs Vic Darchynian II
The division is so bare that I am forced to agree. The first fight was so emphatic though that I don’t have particularly big interest in a rematch.
118 – Hozumi Hasegawa vs Joseph Agbeko
Perez deserves the fight more since he just beat Agebko, but I really want to see how Hasegawa could deal with the pressure. I really wish Hasegawa would leave Japan to fight internationally against anyone, but it wouldn’t make much financial sense for him.
122 – Guillermo Rigondeaux vs Juan Manuel Lopez
I’m curious as to what an all time great amateur does against a seasoned, world class pro fresh out of the amateurs. Maybe I’m leading Guillermo to his demise, but… Hey, this is my dream.
126 – Chris John vs Yuriorkis Gamboa
I’m a fan of Gamboa, but I don’t really see him improving. I’m ready to toss him in with the division tops and see what happens. A prime John stops him, despite not having much in the power department just with how easily he’d be able to hit Yuriorkis, but given his late troubles with Juarez… I’m not positive Chris John is in his prime anymore.
130 – Robert Guerrero vs Humberto Soto
I like Guerrero big in this fight. I like the ghost a lot and I want to see him star. I also believe I’d received affirmation on my assertion that Soto is a bit overrated.
135 – Juan Manuel Marquez vs Edwin Valero
If Juan Manuel Marquez can get back to 135, I’d be fascinated in how Valero would do. I like Marquez comfortably, but I’d still watch with intrigue.
140 – Timothy Bradley vs Amir Khan
With all due respect to everyone else in this great division, I feel these two are the best two overall fighters. Let’s get it on.
Pacquiao/Mayweather winner vs the Mosley/Berto winner
I’m cheating, but since those fights are basically final… Why not?
154 – Paul Williams vs Alfredo Angulo
WAR! I’m honestly not sure Paul has the movement or the power to keep Angulo from nailing him all night, even with Angulo’s limitations. He’s going to just have to outgun him. How could this not be a FOTY candidate?
160 – Sebastian Sylvester vs Danny Jacobs
I’m trying to think like a promoter and gift Jacobs a world title to put some intrigue back into the division. I know most people want to see Pavlik/Williams, and as a fight I agree, but in a perfect world I’d want us to slow down and build a legit division to enjoy, instead of one fight.
168 – Arthur Abraham vs Carl Froch
I don’t like Froch. He’s a good enough fighter, but something about his personality rubs me the wrong way. I believe Abraham has the best chance at rendering him unconscious. Moving on.
175 – Tavoris Cloud vs Chris Henry
This would vaunt one of them into earned contention, sure, but that isn’t really what I care about. Is there anyone who has seen both these guys fight that does not believe this would be an epic?
200 – Steve Cunningham v Tomas Ademek II
I can’t agree with this fight more.
201+ – ANY series of fights featuring the 30 and under club. We know the Klitschkos rule. That is established. We have to wait for them to get old and fade or retire before anything changes on the top of the division. I’d like to see some fights between the contenders.
Haye, Chambers, Arreola, Povetkin, Solis, Peter, Boystov, Johnson, and Dimetrenko… We’ve seen how many of them paired together? Chambers fought Povetkin and Dimetreko and… Yeah. That is it. Nine heavyweights in their athletic prime twiddling their thumbs and weighting for a Klitschko payday. I’d love to have some sort of round robin or tournament where we just sort them out finally.
Williams-Angulo sounds awesome
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
ALL GOOD
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 22, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions
Thanks for this article!
This is the kind of stuff I sit around and daydream about.
Kirkland-Angulo would be absolutely brutal.
Lightweight seems to have the most combinations of solid fights. I wish they would have a tourney that lasted longer than “Lightweight Lightning.” Any combination of Barrios, Valero, Katisidis, and Marquez would be a dream fight for me.
i thought klassen was routed as well. guerrero showed off some damn fine boxing skills, and never really let klassen get into the fight. idk maybe i’m just easily convinced by the dudes talking over the fight
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Dec 22, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions
for the divisions i know nothing about i’ll just put “agree”
HW: Vitali-Wlad
Cruiserweight: Adamek-Cunningham II
LHW: Dawson-Pascal
SMW: Bika-Andrade (this has “GOAT” written all over it)
MW: Pavlik-PW (the myth will be exposed!!!)
Jr. Middle: Angulo-Kirkland
Welter: Pacman-Money May
Jr Welter: Bradley-Maidana
Lightweight: Baby Bull-JMM II
Featherweight: JMaLopez-Rocky Juarez (gotta give my homeboy one more chance at a title, and if rocky actually pulls the damn trigger this COULD be awesome)
jr feather: agree
Bantam:agree
jr bantam: agree
flyweight: agree
Jr fly: agree
straw: agree
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Dec 22, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply actions
Excellent Job!!!
Great job from the author! How I like to see creative authors! And I cannot hide my disdain for parrot, robot, or spin writting. This is why I sincerely believe, this site has a bright future….as long as SC and al. do not break the vow of independance (financial and intellectual).
Great job as well from the posters…They all, with a few exceptions, present their cases, and above all, justify their choices.
However, as the Highest Court of the Netland (lol…), I would like to rebut a few points:
1)Hopkins#Dawson: I have hard time understanding why people, request this fight. Hopkins is 44, Dawson is twenty something; there are 2 belt-holders about his age in his division, why can’t he focus on them? His last 4 fights have been against fighter above or equal 40 yrs old, now he is calling out a 44 yrs old fighter….Buuurkkk!! DAWSON = Geriatrician Champion.
2) Iron Beach, while promoting the Klits brother (and pavlik) cannot help shooting at Haye…. he does the same stuffs against Mayweather, Paul Williams; Dirrel; Ward. Statistically, it cannot be a coincidence….
3) Why is khan in the picture? I know the answer: because of the media blitz.. Bradley has now fought and won against Holt, Witter, Cambell (unofficially), Peterson. Who has kahn fought? Maidana has Ortiz as a trophe…Kahn is ready to surrender his belt to avoid maidana; he will not fight Bradley (guaranteed), he would rather go after Mr velvet-fist, aka, Paul Malinnagi….
3) Bute#Abraham: hahahaha….This is an easy pick. AA sends Bute in the Sleepland. Bute hype is a texbook example of excitement triggered by the last result. Well….look at his record…..which prime-class A fighter has he fought? Andrade?, Bika? ….excuse me Williams Joppy….There is one fact: had bute fought elsewhere than Montreal, he would not be a champion anymore: In comparison to what Andrade (a fighter who has lost 100% of his major fights) did to him in their 1st fight, It took far LESS for Ref to stop Manfredo against Joe. Calzague; and even lately, Roy Jones in Australia.
4) Jcarr: Angulo nailing Paul Williams all nigh? WOW! If Cintron can beat him….Anyway, it takes a slick fighter to cause some trouble to PW, not a stationary-one-dimensional fighter….
Rebuttal
On Bute, I disagree.
- Andrade has NOT lost 100% of his major fights. He convincingly beat Robert Steiglitz, who is now a titlist in the division. he convincingly beat Vitali Tsypko, who’s a top 20 guy in the division. He’s lost to the two top guys, Kessler and Bute. But he’s proved he belongs in the equation, and he has a better record on paper than many top contenders at the weight.
- Bute didn’t just look great in his last fight. He’s looked great in every fight, outside of 1 1/2 rounds where he completely ran out of gas. Obviously, the stamina issues are something to watch out for, but he beat Bika more convincingly than Calzaghe, he’s knocked down iron beard Andrade three times, and he routed two other fighters who were top 10 at the time in Berrio and Zuniga.
- Abraham has had some problems with guys who can move well in the past. Elvin Ayala was able to look good at times against Abraham by boxing from the outside, sticking and moving. Mahir Oral was able to look good at times against Abraham by boxing from the outside, sticking and moving. Jermain Taylor had his moments against Abraham, and while he only won a few rounds, by the next morning, Abraham’s face was so swollen and bruised that he was nearly unrecognizable. Bute can fight in much the same style, only he’s a much better boxer than those first two (and at this point, a better fighter than the third), and unlike those two feather fisted punchers, Bute actually packs some pop in his fists.
Abraham is interesting, but he’s bound to lose against a good fighter at some point, and so far, he really hasn’t faced anyone all that good. Gevor or Taylor is probably his best victory, and I’d pick both of those guys to lose to either Andrade or Bika. Some very one-dimensional, sub-par fighters, particularly Elvan Ayala and LaJuan Simon, have given Abraham some major problems. I think that either Froch or Bute (and possibly even Ward) would give him even bigger problems.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
All right - time to make fictious fights cause why not
Heavyweight – Haye v Adamek – Screw significance, i want a heavyweight fight I can actually enjoy watching. This could well be a war
Cruiserweight – Cunningham v Adamek – Yeah I reused Adamek, but there is no other fight that really comes close right now at cruiserweight.
Light Heavyweight – Dawson v Hopkins – I realize this fight will likely be boring, but I’m sick of Hopkins trying to fight people like Roy Jones. If your number one in this division prove it (on a related note if Hopkins is anywhere near the favorite on the betting line, expect me to put serious money on Dawson)
SMW – Ward v Bute – Likely the two best in the division right now (apologies to Abraham, but I expect he’ll lose when he comes to America because his style is not American judge friendly)
MW – Williams v Pavlik – I still want to see this fight, although I’m not confident it ever happens
JMW – Angulo v Kirkland – This would have to be a FOTY contendor. Wouldn’t last long, but would be fun while it lasts. Other names considered include Porter and Guerrero. There are a lot of fun prospects at 154 who it would be fun to see war each other.
Welterweight – Pac/Mayweather v Mosley/Berto – A cop out pick, but one that will likely come true barring a pac/mayweather rematch.
Junior Welterweight – Bradley v Madiana – Bradley has fought all sorts of people, but can he take Maidana’s powe (likely yes). This is another fairly good and fairly young division with lots of good choices (another tournament type thing could be possible hear as at 154 because the names aren’t so big as to make the money impossible as it would be at 147).
Lightweight – Valero v Marquez – in his prime Marquez wipes up Valero whos pretty 1 dimensional, but as Marquez is getting up there in years, one has to wonder if he can survive.
JLW – Guerrero vs Linares – This one might have been better two years ago, but eh, why not.
FW – John v Gamboa – I like this one to see how John does with a fighter like Gamboa (particularly as John is getting older)
The rest I don’t know enough to really comment on.
Objection Sustained!
Brickhaus: your objection about Bute is sustained…Good points.
However, I almost fell from my chair the way you spoke of the man who just shut out the “best super middle weight” in the world . I still cannot beleive you wrote this: " I think that either Froch or Bute (and possibly even Ward) would give him even bigger problems." That is optimization of condescension vis-a-vis Ward. None of the above has faced and dominated a fighter the caliber of kessler…..Even J. Calzague struggled against Kessler….still you constructed that sentence. For those who cannot read subtexts or betwen the lines (I am not patronizing), Mr Brickhaus, said in other words that Froch and Bute were better fighter than Ward…
"Mr Brickhaus, said in other words that Froch and Bute were better fighter than Ward…"
No, he didn’t.
He just understands the phrase “styles make fights” much better than you do.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on Dec 22, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Chaos
I wish I could rec this more than once.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 23, 2009 4:05 AM EST up reply actions
:) That made me smile.....
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Chaotic thinking!
Mr Chaos100, Lets analyze a little bit your thinking process: you replied: "…he just understand the phrase “style make fights”much better than you". Let’s assume he meant that (which I dont believe).
In other words, you are alleging BrickHaus said Froch has the style to beat A. Abrahams: Froch has a good defense to shield him from Abram’s missiles, ring generalship, ability to adjust; versatility….I hate to say it, Chaos100 you have a chaotic way of thinking.
Does Bute have the style to beat A.A….I am not sure…..yes he has the speed, some power; good footwork…..All these features of his are nullify by Abrahams armored defense…….and Bute has a china glassware chin that would shatter into 150 000 pieces once Abrahams IEDs explode.
How about Ward’s style: very complex: he is versatile, excellent footwork; stand switcher; good defense, good power, speed, ring generalship, counterpunching ability, ability to break the opponent rythm by clinching, ala B-Hop, etc…
If you think I am drifting, lets ask a 3rd opinion, TED Sares; the question would be : which one of Bute, Froch, Ward has the style to beat Abraham?
I've always maintained that Abraham is tailor made for Froch
and hopefully we’ll find out soon enough. Froch is much longer than Abraham, throws wide hooking punches that would go around Abraham’s guard enough to score points, generally has a much higher workrate than Abraham, and has a good enough chin that he should be able to stand up to Abraham’s punching.
There’s a decent chance Bute could get knocked out by Abraham, but he doesn’t have a china chin. He’s been knocked down once in his career, and it was when he was physically exhausted. Berrio is probably the biggest puncher in the SMW division since Benn, and Berrio’s punches didn’t seem to bother Bute.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
STRAW MAN ALERT!!
You’ve changed your tune.
Let’s do a “before” and “after”…..
Before: (paraphrase) Ward is a better fighter than Froch, Bute.
After: (quote) “the question would be : which one of Bute, Froch, Ward has the style to beat Abraham?”
It was only after I mentioned styles that you argue for Ward’s style.
So, to summarize, you accuse Brick of saying something he didn’t, and then accuse me of chaotic thinking (well done on the originality, and the repetition, too…..) for pointing out the problem with what you said.
Nice.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Rebuttal
i) “Froch is much longer than Abraham,”……Who has not been longer than Abraham?
ii) “throws wide hooking punches that would go around Abraham’s guard enough to score points” Does he leave himself wide open? Does he keep his hands low? Does he have a poor defense? Is Abraham a K O artist? Does Abraham have one of the best defense in the business?
Once you answer the questions above, there should be no way you keep your initial assessment…
Mine
HW: Tua v Haye – for the highlight reel KO of Haye that follows his pre-fight shit talk. Priceless.
CW: Cunningham v Adamek II – this time USS wins another FOTY candidate.
LHW: Tavoris Cloud v Danny Green – Bombs away slugfest, pure aggro from the get-go.
SMW: Ward v Hopkins – Super Six winner takes on ring general. Sweet science, old school shenanigans.
MW: Matthew Macklin v Khoren Gevor – Tough, tough final eliminator.
LMW: Kirkland v Margarito – The release and the return co-incide. Boxing armageddon.
WW: PacMan v Pretty Boy – ala Duran/Leonard I .
LWW: Urango v Maidana – Unload set unload.
LW: Valero v Katsidis – Toe to toe warfare.
SFW: Guerrero v Soto – The Ghostman cometh.
FW: Action Jackson Asiku v Gamboa – Ugandan Aussie shocks the Cuban Yank.
SBW: Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym v Sod Looknongyangtoy – just to test the commentary team.
BW: Perez v Agbeko II – Awesome.
SuperFly: Vic v Donaire rematch – Tuck ya chin in Vic!
Fly: Panomroonglek Kratingdaenggym (Poonsawat’s bro) v Samransak Singmanassak -Merchant, put the bottle down, concentrate.
Light fly: Viloria v Segura. Light guys can punch.
Straw: Pigmy Muangchaiyaphum v Roman Gonzalez – Pigmy chomps on El Chocolatito.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
I thought you were just being a wiseass and making up a name when you said Pigmy Muangchaiyaphum
And then I looked him up and he does exist.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I think you're both taking the piss..... ;)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
And Pigmy light fly...
Sorry…It’s late down here
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
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