Mayweather-Pacquaio in jeopardy over drug testing
by Brickhaus on Dec 22, 2009 11:43 PM EST
in News Analysis
120 comments
Per Kevin Iole, the final item to be negotiated in a potential megafight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather is whether the fighters will submit to Olympic-style drug testing before the fight. While there had been prior unsubstantiated reports that Mayweather requested blood testing and that Pacquiao was refusing, the sources he names are as high as they can get, Bob Arum and Leonard Ellerbe themselves.
Both sides agreed that the drug testing issue is the only hurdle preventing the fight from being finished. Earlier Tuesday, Golden Boy Promotions officially requested March 13 from the Nevada State Athletic Commission to host the show.
"As Floyd’s management, we are insistent that there be a level playing field," Ellerbe said. "This is in the best interests of the fighters, the fans and the sport. If you want a level playing field, the best way to do it is to have Olympic-style, random drug testing administered by the premier agency in the world, the [United States Anti-Doping Agency]."
Pacquiao promoter Bob Arum said the demand is "absolutely crazy," done simply to harass Pacquiao, who is squeamish about needles, and is proof that Mayweather doesn’t really want the fight.
Frankly, this sounds pretty bad on both sides. Even if Mayweather eventually acquiesces and the fight goes on without blood testing, It allows people to plausibly infer that there's a reason why Pacquaio wouldn't go along with blood testing. On the other hand, why should Mayweather request something special for this fight? Other than hunches by his dad and uncles, there isn't any legitimate evidence that Pacquiao has used any performance enhancing drugs that aren't of the GNC variety. And as noted by Freddie Roach, most of the drugs that would be a concern aren't any more easily testable by blood than by urine. Blood tests are generally useful after the fact, not before the fact. The way that blood tests catch people is that the samples stay on file and then can be tested long after the event for illegal substances that weren't testable at the time of the event.
With both fighters rumored to be guaranteed $25 million, the fight will happen, whether or not Manny agrees to the invasion of privacy. What this does is create a possible excuse, in the case that the fight goes on and Mayweather loses. It may also create a platform to get rid of certain other concessions Mayweather had made earlier in the negotiations. And while Mayweather's requests seem fairly unreasonable once you look behind them, the court of public opinion will be on Mayweather's side on this one. Everyone knows steroids are bad, while very few seem to actually focus on what they do and how they can actually be tested.
Pacquiao won't change is mind on this issue. If Manny is doping, there's no way his camp lets him get his blood tested. And if Manny isn't doping, there's no way they should want to let him get his blood tested. Deep down, Mayweather shouldn't want the testing either. If Pacquiao does take the test and he comes out clean, then it's a non-event. But if he takes the test and it doesn't, then EVERYONE loses a lot of money. Mayweather's taking a calculated risk here, but it's really one big, massive bluff.
0 recs |
120 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Waste of everyone's time, especially the readers.
This is such a hype balloon boy, I’m not even sure why I’m typing to pop it, but basically:
—reading between the lines, in his proposed schedule, Manny has left himself no way to get away with anything, not that he’s ever been proven of anything, or accused of it beyond such non-credible names as the Mayweathers and Paulie M.
—the press release was concocted strictly to let Rollerboy fire off another seeming zinger that says nothing.
—money talks, bullshit puts out press releases. And since Floyd doesn’t believe in shame, he’ll forever be shameless.
Roach made this noise
and Clemons and Bonds have also left themselves with no way to get away with anything, not that they’ve ever been proven of anything.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Now all you Manny fanatics can chill with the p4p shit
Everyone wanted Floyd to fight Margacheato – he used plaster
Then Shane – Got caught for steroids
Now Manny – Wont take the Olympic drug test cause hes on the juice too
Give props where props is due already
Floyd is pure
I’m just gonna come out and say it. Floyd’s 40-0 record is completely bogus, it means nothing, because he has been juicing his entire career. I have just as much evidence as anyone has on Manny, so certainly you can’t argue my claim.
This is all such an obvious game by the Mayweathers, how anyone can’t see it is beyond me. First it was extra testing, then Olympic testing, then testing inside of 6 weeks(and according to Roach they requested testing up to 48 hours pre fight). If they accept this next thing you know Floyd will be demanding a semen sample. There is a point where enough is enough. There is ZERO evidence to support the claims made by Floyd Sr., this is just an effort to defame Manny, and to secure Floyd jr. an excuse to duck another fight.
he has been juicing his entire career. I have just as much evidence as anyone has on Manny, so certainly you can’t argue my claim.
Err, can we see this evidence? I mean proper substantiated evidence, the type which would stand up in court or be worthy of a history book. I’m betting we can’t.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 23, 2009 3:48 AM EST up reply actions
I think rodgers point was he doesn’t have any evidence that Mayweather is using steriods but he’s going to make the claim anyway, just as people are doing with Manny. He was being sarcastic.
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
Ah sarcasm
silly me.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 23, 2009 5:03 AM EST up reply actions
I'm going to come out and just say it
McGwire and Sosa should never be accused of juicing either just like Manny.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
“Floyd is pure,” pure bullshit is more like it. Pac has never given any indication that he wasn’t clean or done anything nefarious in any of his fights. Unlike, Floyd, who never had any intention of making weight against Marquez and didn’t even look dry on the scales as if to rub everyones face in it. As for the weight gaining thing, Manny’s an elite athlete with millions in the bank, he can afford the best clean, legal conditioning known to mankind and anyone can get ripped with an army like that. As for the keeping of his power, Manny’s an elite athlete, perhaps a once or twice in a generation talent whose genetic structure allows him to go up the weights without turning his punches into pillows. This just a Mayweather game aimed to divert Manny’s focus. 1. Manny’s afraid of needles and is superstitious about medical treatment in general 2. Manny’s not an American and didn’t grow up with our westernized notions about blood not being a big thing to give all the time, other cultures have different views about blood than we do. If anyone has earned the benefit of any doubt it’s Manny with a caerer of consistent good sportsmanship on taking on the biggest challenges.
Better than the Polygraph
Who is usually afraid of the polygraph test?
Those who have nothing to hide ususlly offer to take a polygraph to clear their name…
The drug test is by far more accurate than the polygraph…
After the Staph infection, here comes the needle allergy….lol
Cambell, Paulie Malinaggi, Mayweathers, they all might have hit the nail on the head.
It seemed odd from the get go…..Something did not fit…. It looked and smelled Ben Johnson all the way….
The author is ODD!
Why is this author saying the request of Mayweather for drug testing is UNREASONABLE? WHY?
Brickhaus, i hope your foundation are solid like “Brick”, and the “Haus” will not crumble like a sand castle…..Simply bizzare, attempting to discredit drug testing….It is like saying there should be no cops on highways, for it will slow the traffic…
Why is this author saying the request of Mayweather for drug testing is UNREASONABLE? WHY?
There is already testing. Testing that Mayweather has never had a problem with through 40 fights. Mayweather is asking for testing on top of testing. The sanctioning body will do it’s own testing. The Nevada State Athletic Commission will do its own testing. Brickhaus isn’t saying there shouldn’t be cops on the highways. He’s saying the cops shouldn’t be in the passenger seat ready to conduct warrantless searches with no probable cause.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
You forgot to add
“…shouldn’t be in the passenger seat ready to conduct warrantless searches with no probably cause at the instigation of your most hated rival and enemy.”
Seriously, it’s ludicrous. Just something for PBF to pout about when he’s trying to cry in his beer after he gets torn apart. He’ll be trying to cry, unsuccessfully, because his eyes will be so swollen from the beating that his tear glands won’t be able to squeeze anything out.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I haven't heard one qoute on this matter from Mayweather.
But I do hear Roach crying. At the end this might not even be how Manny feels.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Found a qoute from Mayweather, this is what he has to say:
“I understand Pacquiao not liking having his blood taken, because frankly I don’t know anyone who really does. But in a fight of this magnitude, I think it is our responsibility to subject ourselves to sportsmanship at the highest level,” said Mayweather.
“I have already agreed to the testing, and it is a shame that he is not willing to do the same. It leaves me with great doubt as to the level of fairness I would be facing in the ring that night,” said Mayweather. “I hope that this is either some mis-communication or that Manny will change his mind, and step up and allow these tests, which were good enough for all these other great athletes, to be performed by USADA.”
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I was saying it's unreasonable because it's a hinderance that doesn't really do anything
If they had blood testing during the course of training, I might understand. But having a blood test a couple days before the fight doesn’t really help anything. It’s just forcing a blood test for the sake of having a blood test.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
From fanhouse:
“They’re scrambling and they’re boxed in and they know it,” Ellerbe added.
“It’s our understanding that the [United States Anti-Doping Agency] will not be drawing blood 24 hours before the fight, so there shouldn’t be a problem. They’re probably saying something along the lines that Floyd Mayweather is trying to get out of the fight,” said Ellerbe. “Well, if he feels that this is Floyd’s way trying to get out of the fight, then all Manny Pacquiao has to do is agree to the testing.”
It’s a random drug testing that both fighters will have to submit to at the same time. It being random it can happen at anytime. Just because Roach is saying it will occur a couple days before the fight it doesn’t mean it will.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
It's indefensible
It’s not unreasonable if Manny has nothing to hide. If your clean and confident then take the test and make Floyd pay. If an athlete is unwilling to take any drug test then that is indefensible and I’m a little surprise that your pointing the finger at Mayweather. I wonder what you would say if it was the other war around?
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I guess I disagree here
If a cop was trying to search my house, I know I wouldn’t let them just for the sake of it. I have nothing to hide and nothing illegal in here, but I don’t want my house searched, and I don’t want people to be able to claim there was something there when there wasn’t,
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
But as an athlete
don’t you have some kind of moral obligation to show you are legit? I’m asking because that is a crucial point of were some one’s opinion on this matter is coming from.
Do you think that athlete’s should use PED’s and if not how do you seperate the one’s who are and the one’s who are not?
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Of course athletes have an obligation to prove their merits.
The problem is that Manny is already subjecting himself to those particular tests, the Olympic stuff that Mayweather is mouthing off about is just the same thing taken to another degree. NONE of PBF’s previous fights have included the Olympic level tests, so his demanding it now really does smell putrid. He’s ducking, pure and simple. Creating an out for himself later on.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
But he's agreeing to the same terms
Why can’t it be looked at as Manny ducking Floyd for not taking the test?
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
You really can't look at it as Manny ducking Floyd.
Manny agreed to the same level of physical intrusion for this fight as for any other fight in his career. Why should have stoop even lower for Floyd? This is just a head game by Mayweather, if he gets Manny to agree to the more invasive testing, then he essentially wins their first engagement. If Manny refuses, then he gets to pout about illegitimacy and ‘fearing inequality’ or whatever he is blathering about.
It’s all head games. Manny shouldn’t stoop to it. If he holds his head up about this, he’ll come out the bigger man, which is exactly what he’s planning to do anyways. Floyd’s just trying to get under his skin, which is the main reason Manny should refuse.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Mayweather agreed to the terms of this fight with Arum,
Arum went to meet Manny and Manny had some changes to the contract but there was no problem. Mayweather’s camp agreed and they moved on. First win by Manny if you are going to look at it that way.
Same test for both fighters. Yet Roach and Arum keep spiting out qoutes for the media……. when you do that…… that is called playing head games.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Well sure, the whole thing is a contest.
Who gets the bigger purse, who gets the gloves concession, who gets the ring size they want, etc.. It’s all negotiation.
But this goes beyond that standard back-and-forth. The Olympic level testing is something that NOBODY either of these guys has fought has ever asked for, and neither is it a condition either of them have agreed to, if I’m not mistaken. It’s more than the normal negotiations. This is out of left field, and while I don’t think it’s that big of a deal in the end, I do think it’s telling as to how Floyd is viewing the fight.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
With all due respect
That’s stupid misterjonez. Nobody is going to duck that kind of money when they need it. If Manny says yes then the fight is on and he has to fight him. C’mon we can do better than that. That’ bending over backward to defend Manny.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
You misunderstood me,
and proceeded to patronize as well. I say, good chap, bad form.
Floyd is obviously going to fight, because it could potentially be his biggest payday, and it will certainly be his last massive one. Of course he’s stepping into the ring.
The thing he’s ducking is squaring up to the fight. This creates an ‘out’ in his own mind, if things don’t go his way. It’s basic psychology, really.
As for defending Manny, wha? Manny’s already subjecting himself to pretty invasive testing, and if he’d already agreed to the blood tests, PBF would be coming up with something else. You seriously think Floyd is above playing these kinds of mind games? This is right in his wheelhouse.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
That's the price of fame and a big payday
In order for Usain Bolt to accomplish his goals he had to do the same. Don’t go feeling sorry for poor Manny having to submit himself to “invasive” testing. He is a multimillionaire and he doesn’t know you from Adam. They should all do it because we are the ones paying to see a fair fight. And yes there is some gamesmanship involved but that’s a part of sports as well
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
He should do it for the kids
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Manny may be wealthy,
but that doesn’t mean his privacy is any less valuable than yours or mine. He has the right to refuse these conditions, and if he does, it doesn’t prove, or even indicate anything, except that he doesn’t want to subject himself to those particular tests.
You’re falling flat into Mayweather’s trap. This is like second grade mudslinging, and it’s working like a charm on way more people than I thought it would.
I guess Floyd knows his (and boxing, in general’s) fans pretty well.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
you're giving Manny to much credit
It could be that he feels violated but it could be that he is ducking the test for other reasons.
You don’t know that and I don’t know that. But the questions still can be asked.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
So if the Nevada Athletic Commission
were to adopt these testing rules you would say…
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I would say that they are part and parcel to the
employment he would be regularly seeking, and for him to insist on a venue outside of Nevada doesn’t indict him in the least.
But if he wants to fight in Vegas, and the NSAC makes this form of testing mandatory, then he needs to go through with it.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
DUMB
Manny pisses in front of someone after every fight. Taking blood is no more invasive then having someone watch you take a leak.
Take this to its extreme..
Are you alright with a cop randomly pulling your blood during a traffic stop, just to make sure you’re being a good citizen?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Again That's Not The Same
And you know it.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Read the first line.
It all slides towards that, and YOU know it.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
This is a waste of my time
You love Manny so much that you will say anything. Rather that seeing a fight of the decade that everyone knows would be clean, you would rather they not fight. I can’t converse with you anymore.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
That's quite the leap.
I’ve never even hinted that I prefer them not to fight. I am thrilled to see them fight, because I don’t think Floyd can backpedal his way to victory against Manny. It’s a modern paradigm, to exalt the counter-puncher while mocking the aggressive fighters, and I’m personally ecstatic to see Manny put an emphatic end to that particular bit of dogmatic muck.
I happen to think that it’s a good thing for a person to stand on principle, especially when the rules are on his side, as well. Even if they’re principles I happen to disagree with.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
They are not checking if he's a good person
but if he’s safe to fight with.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
In that particular example,
they’d be checking to see if he was doing anything illegal that would show up in bloodwork. If you’re all good with outright surrender of the right to privacy (what precious little remains of it in US society), then I guess I can’t really engage on the subject.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
He already gets tested
He’s fine with the commission invading his privacy already. They will take blood now instead of just piss because piss tests are not the be all end all of drug testing.
Misterjonez just stop...
Seriously. It’s job specific. I already said that.
Ok, so you're a taxi driver.
Does that change the scenario for you?
I’m not trying to be a jerk, but it really does seem you guys are putting on the blinders just to climb up Manny’s business over this thing. This type of privacy issue is pretty important to many (I would think most) people.
He’s already agreed to the standard and then some. He shouldn’t be condemned for refusing to jump through every single hoop his opponent puts in front of him.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
It's not the standard
The standard is the US anti doping agency. They have the current drug tests. The boxing commissions are behind the times. Everybody is moving along (MLB, NBA, NFL, etc) except boxing.
by erod on Dec 23, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'll give you that.
But it doesn’t really change Manny’s position. His industry has a given standard, and he’s already agreed to abide by that standard (and then some, if I’m not mistaken).
What he objects to is going beyond that, for whatever reason, and it’s within his rights to refuse it. Why shouldn’t he exercise those rights? If every time you fail to roll over, it automatically makes you guilty of whatever your opponent/enemy wants to accuse you, then your rights no longer exist. At least not meaningfully.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
BS
It’s not about privacy to you at all. You seem to be fine with piss tests but somehow a blood test is crossing the line.
Actually, it doesn't matter to *me*
where the line is. The issue at hand is that Manny has identified this particular line as one he’s not comfortable crossing. I respect that, and I’d respect Floyd if the situation was reversed.
I’ve worked in an environment where random piss tests and even some blood tests are not only mandatory, they are essential. I personally didn’t have any problem with submitting to them, but I completely respect a person who doesn’t want to. And if it’s acceptable practice for them to refuse, so be it.
This isn’t about geography, it’s about boundaries and whether or not they’re justifiable.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
No more privacy analgoies
Screw the privacy philosophical debates.
Pacquiao has NEVER said that privacy is the issue to my knowledge. It’s about him being scared of needle, Mayweather playing mind games, and him “feeling weak” from giving blood. Not a peep about privacy. You guys are the ones who brought that up.
But if it is about privacy, I don’t respect Pacman’s “line” at all. If someone can watch you piss, and you can have the HBO 24-7 cameras follow you around to promote a fight, then you will have a hell of a time to convince me that privacy is the issue here.
by erod on Dec 23, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then we've reached an impasse.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but
That’s different. We’re not talking a violation of civil rights. We are talking about 40M and the P4P title. If after that police search, I could earn 40M if nothing was found then.. uhmm. . yeah. You can search my crib and my car too.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
by Craigman on Dec 23, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not only that...
..but certain occupations require “invasions of privacy” for the good of all those involved. For example, I know a woman who runs a daycare from inside of her house. In order to be licensed by the state, she has to submit to random inspections of her house, computer, etc.
If they find a gun in her house unlocked and available for kids to play with, isn’t it a good thing that they found it before a kid blows his head off accidentally despite not having any evidence of it prior to the random search?
Again, it’s job specific and it’s there for the safety of all involved.
My job can ask me at anytime to take a random drug test.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Because you gave them that right
when you signed on. It was, at one point, your choice.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Good point
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
If the Nevada State Athletic Commission finds steroids in Manny’s piss, Manny loses his license.
Manny’s job requires him to pass the state commission’s test and the sanctioning body’s test.
Not Floyd Mayweather, Jr.’s test.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Correct.
It’s all part of the pre-fight hype, Floyd trying to get under Manny’s skin. Not sure what Manny’s doing from his side, but there will be more to come.
Only thing I can remember was a pretty bland “I don’t think Floyd wants to fight me” quote from Manny right before the Cotto fight. Roach does a lot of the dirty work..probably all of it.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
They need to catch up
Nevada State Athletic Commission’s testing standards are not up to date.
Flody is not inventing a drug test. He’s just asking that they use the same standards that DAMN NEAR EVERYBODY ELSE USES. Olympics, NBA, MLB, NFL, etc.
The difference between Urine and blood test
can be found here. Not all PED’s can be detected by urine and not all by the blood. That’s why they want to test both. Look at EPO’s for example.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Why should a moron pops up from time to time?
IF testing is useless; undetectable, why then beeing scared?
by Supreme Court on Dec 23, 2009 2:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
All this rethorics, to say that because some criminals are not caught, THEREFORE policing should be banned…….Geez…..
by Supreme Court on Dec 23, 2009 2:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Like the Jeovah Witness
Dervish686 is telling us that Filippinos are scared of blood like Jeovah Witness…lol
They will say and do anything to avoid getting caught….
Look at this way...
Your co-worker who has the exact same job as you notices you’ve got nice clothes, a nice car and a nice laptop. Though you’ve never been arrested or even accused of stealing, your co-worker tells people he thinks you’re stealing. Although there’s already a police precinct in your neighborhood, along with surveillance cameras on the corners, your co-worker proposes as a condition of you remaining employed, he wants to hire FBI agents who will knock on your door unannounced and search your home whenever they want to make sure you’re not stealing.
Floyd can wave the American flag and remind people that he’s the American fighter all he wants, but demanding that a person subject himself to warrantless searches absent a shred of evidence or probable cause is not very American.
Not a very good analogy....
A blood sample is a very minor request and Mayweather will be subject to the same testing. Team Pacman made demands for Cotto to drain his body more than usual and come down two extra pounds but they don’t wanna give a simple blood sample over some BS superstition?!? C’mon that’s BS.
by ultimoshogun on Dec 23, 2009 4:04 AM EST up reply actions
If it is a "very minor request"...
Then why is Team Mayweather so adamant? They certainly aren’t treating it like a “very minor request”.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 4:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about the process of the blood sample....
They stick a syringe in his arm and draw a little bit of blood and he’s done with it……what’s so hard about that? Such a simple request shouldn’t be a problem.
by ultimoshogun on Dec 23, 2009 4:39 AM EST up reply actions
This is not a “request”. A request is the act of asking somebody for something. When you ask for something, you’re giving the other person the option to say “yes” or “no”. Mayweather didn’t request Olympic-style drug testing, he demanded it.
It’s simple to you because you probably didn’t grow up in a third world country. Pacquiao’s conditioner has gone on record stating that Pacquiao is hesitant to take Aspirin to relieve pain from a swollen knee. There are many people who didn’t grow up in third world countries that dislike needles. There are even people who have no problem being stuck with needles who think the taking of blood is intrusive.
It would be simple for Mayweather to allow his sparring sessions to be filmed. That doesn’t mean he should let anybody bully him into doing it.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 5:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Manny does have an option and according to Roach
he has said No.
What does this have to do with growing up in a third world country anyways?
It’s a Olympic style testing….. when all the countries in the world play in the olympics… being third world or not have to submit to this test.
Some people have trouble drinking pills…… so what. Anyone can say anything but unless you pass the test public opinion will still be there.
Being scared of needles has nothing to do with class or what country you come from.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In case you haven’t noticed, part of the reason it’s third world is the people don’t have the same access to medical care as people in other countries.
Being scared of needles has nothing to do with class or what country you come from.
Being scared of needles has nothing to do with class or what country you come from.
I does sometimes and sometimes is doesn’t, which is why I said:
There are many people who didn’t grow up in third world countries that dislike needles. There are even people who have no problem being stuck with needles who think the taking of blood is intrusive.
Anyone can say anything but unless you pass the test public opinion will still be there.
You’re ignoring the fact that Team Mayweather cooked up baseless accusations to sway public opinion. They were the ones out there making steroid accusations. If Mayweather was so concerned about public opinion, he would’ve fought Shane, fought Hatton at 140 and fought better competition in general. Mayweather hasn’t been doing what’s best for boxing for over a decade and know he cares about boxing all of a sudden?
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Way
before Mayweather Sr. accused Manny many people around me have been questioning Manny. They might not be famous but they see the same thing.
My wife comes from a third world country and they have very good medical care it’s just not regulated. ANY country you go to there is the rich then the poor. The rich have access and the poor do not. So I don’t see how can this be country related. Maybe more class related but that is all about medical care. Being scared of needles has nothing to do with medical care. Does Manny have piercings or tatoos?
Needles are needed for tatoos and they are in any country you go to.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
He cares about his own well being
He doesn’t want to be in the ring with a guy who juices. Nothing wrong with being sure using the most up to date testing since the athletic commission wont up their standards
These are silly arguments
As a boxing fan you should insist that your boy take any tests to prove himself clean. I’m a Mayweather fan and I can honestly say that if he was unwilling to take a drug test that I would have suspicions about him.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Bad analogy. Filming a sparring session gives a competitive advantage to the other guy because they can see your strategy first hand and come up with a game plan to counter it.
Taking blood gives no competitive advantage to either fighter other then Pacquaio admitting to being a little girl who’s still afraid of needles. The dude gets punched for a living. I have a hard time believing he’s afraid of a little needle prick or losing blood especially when he’s lost blood many a time in the ring.
I wasn’t analogizing filming sparring and taking blood, just pointing out that Floyd ain’t an open book. You have your opinion, which is fine. There’s also the Sugar Ray Leonard/ Muhammad Ali mindset which posits that anytime you get your opponent to do something they don’t want to, you’ve gained a competitive advantage.
The timing of this demand is curious. You’d think that if something was so important you’d demand it upfront instead of waiting till almost everything else is almost settled and then throwing it in.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
This request has been around since the beginning of the talks
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I’m not sure how long a steroid or HGH cycle lasts, or how long you need to take the drugs used to come down from the cycle, but Roach says he’ll do a blood test at the press conference and in the dressing room right after the fight. Anyone who knows how PEDs works want to chime in on whether or not you can go on a cycle during training camp and come out with clean blood the night of the fight?
If it’s that easy to remove all traces of PEDs, then why do they bother to urine test on fight night?
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Dec 23, 2009 3:41 AM EST reply actions
HGH is still essentially undetectable, I believe.
It clears immediately, and it’s naturally found in the body anyways. It doesn’t get stored in fat cells or deep in the muscles, only to come out slowly over time, like most steroids.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
According to the World Anti Doping Agency....
A blood test is the only current reliable test for HGH…..but it can only detect it between 24 to 48 hrs. after use…therefore the test must be random with no heads up of when it will happen. This is why Mayweather is demanding a random test.
by ultimoshogun on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
So I’m not exactly sure about time length but here us how you mask it especially in boxing. Testing for the drug should happen during training camp because this is where it will do the most good. Hgh essentially helps with recovery and most of that happens during training camp. The fighter will be off the drug for a significant portions of time during the taper part of camp. Don’t think this idea is too dumb since both sides have to do it at least according to the Dan Rafael report…
by waldo47 on Dec 23, 2009 5:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
PEDs don’t create that much of an advantage in boxing. 147lbs of performance enhanced muscle isn’t better than 147lbs of natural muscle. In other sports you can get as big and strong and fast as you want but you’re still going to face the same compitition. In boxing if you do a cycle and gain 15 pounds of muscle you’re gonna have to face someone who is 15 pounds heavier than you were before your cycle; no matter what PEDs a guy takes he’s still gonna have to fight someone his own size.
Now that said, I do think Manny is on something and I said this before Paulie or any of the Mayweathers started up. But I don’t think it’s such a bad thing.
"I will five all over this blog." - JRW
It is completely dependent on the type of steriods. Balcos were extremely effective for most sports where generic anabolic steriods would be of little use to most boxers. Type does matter…
by waldo47 on Dec 23, 2009 5:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
There are some PED's which have significant effects for boxers and MMA fighters.
The biggest ones are RBC boosters like Epogen and is it nandrolone? I forget which steroid it is, but one of them specifically boosts the oxygen carrying capacity in the blood, which allows the body to operate at maximum effort for longer. Pretty important stuff for an hour long fight.
But you’re right about the anabolics and muscle boosters. They don’t help much at all for boxers, since their primary use in baseball, basketball and hockey has been to hasten injury recovery times. The NFL players use them for the bulk, mainly.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Roach has said he has no problem with random urine tests, which is already going beyond what any commission requires. He’s also said he’d be okay with blood tests, just not immediately before the fight. That’s also going well beyond any commission’s testing procedures. Surely that should be good enough!?
That is the question
The test will be random so this is just Roach making sure it doesn’t happen no later than a month before the fight. It can happen at anytime.
So why a month before the fight?
And why is Roach doing all this research. He’s a trainer not a doctor. You only find ways to cheat when your planning on cheating.
“I’ve done my homework, I’ve talked to experts,” Roach added
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
But
Not all steroids show up in Urine. Therefore testing him a month before the fight, is not the same as up to the fight. Many boxers already believe Paciao is on steroids, Paulie Mallinaggi, Miguel Cotto among others. Sad to see Paciao won’t just be a man and do what Olympic athletes do. I think Floyd is right, its not like hes saying Manny has to do it but Floyd doesn’t, he has to do the exact same thing as Manny so it just goes to show you that Manny is either scared or on steroids. Sad to see this happen.
When did Miguel Cotto
say that Pacquiao was on steroids? And Malignnaggi can barely spell steroids let alone be an authority on it. If you listen to what he actually has to say on the matter he clearly has no idea how they work.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 23, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
The people I watch fights with
about a quarter of them have taken PED’s or are on them for some reason or another. They all have been saying that Manny has to be takening something. They are not experts but they have been saying this way before Malignnaggi or Mayweather Sr so it is not just them, they are just the ones with the cameras in front of them.
I don’t think Cotto has ever said that either.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Arum on the subject:
Arum said the 31-year-old Pacquiao has no problem with boxing’s standard procedure of urinalysis, but that he does take issue with randomly testing his blood.
“Manny says that taking blood from him really weakens him. And he doesn’t want to do it when he’s in training, but he’ll do it prior to going into training, and after the fight,” said Arum, who is not willing to allow Pacquiao to have blood drawn fewer than 30 days before the fight.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Why the issue with it being random?
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
That's bullshit
Arum is full of shit. Has Pacquiao ever bled in the ring? (YES) Did it make so weak that he couldn’t fight on? NO, it didn’t. Losing arguably more blood from a punch didn’t make him weak so losing a smaller amount via a needle wont either. Lame excuse from Arum and Pacquiao.
The Bottom Line Is
Floyd will be taking the same tests so Manny will not be at a disadvantage. I would ask you Manny apologist to honestly asses if this story were reversed what you would be saying. There is some gamesmanship involved but ultimately this is good for boxing.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
by Craigman on Dec 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I would say the same thing
just I’d be saying it in respect of Manny. It’s just a big bluff though. There’s no way things turn out any better if he agrees to the testing, but it can turn out much worse if he agrees and fails. But by making the claim, he’s planting the seeds of reasonable doubt, so that if he loses, he can still point to the fact that Pacquiao wouldn’t submit to drug testing and try to say that he was on something.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He wouldn't have that excuse if Manny did the test.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
And he could lose out on millions of dollars if he does
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
But Manny and his camp say he's clean so there shouldn't be a problem.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Yes, but he becomes the undiputed p4p
Manny becomes an asterisk and Cotto stays “undefeated”
by Polish Rifle on Dec 23, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
That's one way of looking at it...
There’s also the Sugar Ray Leonard/ Muhammad Ali mindset which posits that anytime you get your opponent to do something they don’t want to, you’ve gained a competitive advantage.
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
(aside) Love the avatar.
Hawk’s my man too.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
hes top 5 of my all time favorite fighters as well.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Dec 23, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks!
Pryor was awesome.
He’s very approachable too. If you contact him through his website, his wife handles most of the correspondence. http://www.hawktime.com/
I’ll never forget the time I met Smokin’ Joe Frazier. It was a book signing and there were lots of people there. Frazier was being very nice, but also keeping the line moving. When it was my turn I shook his hand and mentioned how much I loved watching fighters like him and Aaron Pryor. He stopped for a second, looked at me like I’d grown a third head, and smiled and squeezed my hand. Then said, “Aaron Pryor was a serious fighter.”
by AsianSensation on Dec 23, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Hear me out on this...
not to get all libertarian on you all but I have no problem with PED’s being used in sports. I have no problem with them in baseball, football, boxing etc. Everyone knows the risks. These are grown-ups who can decide for themselves how to treat their bodies. They are not role models for my children. The record books for counting stats are largely meaningless to me after you adjust for era and surgical, dietary and medical advancement anyway. So, if Floyd doesn’t want to fight Manny because he thinks he’s scientifically enhanced, then don’t fight him. If he wants to juice, go ahead. There’s the level playing field. Shit or get off the pot.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Fine, that argument exists.
If I had my druthers, they would not be illegal.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Dec 23, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
On the other hand, why should Mayweather request something special for this fight?
Probably because the boxing commission is behind the times on drug testing and the US Anti-Doping Agency has the more current testing procedures.
Other than hunches by his dad and uncles, there isn’t any legitimate evidence that Pacquiao has used any performance enhancing drugs that aren’t of the GNC variety.
Then why does Pacquaio submit to a piss test now? They already do testing. The Mayweather camp just wants them to follow a different procedure and undergo different testing.
Blood tests are generally useful after the fact, not before the fact. The way that blood tests catch people is that the samples stay on file and then can be tested long after the event for illegal substances that weren’t testable at the time of the event.
And what’s wrong with catching them after the fact? It’s not unusual now a days to hear of cold cases being solved, or convictions being overturned, because of DNA testing done against old blood samples. If he gets caught later on, that works for me too.
Deep down, Mayweather shouldn’t want the testing either. If Pacquiao does take the test and he comes out clean, then it’s a non-event. But if he takes the test and it doesn’t, then EVERYONE loses a lot of money.
He can fight somebody else and make a good amount of money. Maybe he only makes 10 vs 20 million, but it’s still in the millions and he doesn’t have to take the risk of fighting someone who may be juicing.
i think its all games by floyds people. no reason manny should agree to their demands.
im more concerned the fight hasn’t even been officially announced yet. so my hopes aren’t as high as everyone else is.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
Both camps are playing head games
like you said they are still negotiating.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
yup
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Dec 23, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Pre Fight Publicity,..and its free!!
This fight will make both fighters 25-40 million and this is gonna’ stop it,…not even a remote possibility. Free publicity and pre fight hype, this mega-fight has a pretty short promotional window, these promoters will be pulling all kinds of stunts to hype this fight. Team Pac has agreed to test to olympic standards, just not within 30 days of the fight,.. ya’ seriously think thats gonna stop this potential all time great matchup from happening? What turnip truck did fall out of when you were born ,..last nite? I been lookin’ at different sites and there are literally thousands of posts on this already, with more to come, these promoters are lovin’ this. Peace!!
Exactly
they are still coming up with terms of the contract. Basically they are really saying they do want the drug testing to be so random, at least not two days before the fight. So they will come to terms of it being not so random.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
yup. this is just going to bring in more ppv buys.
they are loving it for sure.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Dec 23, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
theres bunch of fanboy comments in this post. lol good lord. some of these comments are so absurd, biased and clueless.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
Where do you stand?
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
i already posted my feelings on it. its all just games and PR.
the fight is not even signed yet.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
@mikefareri on twitter.
by sonofapsycho on Dec 23, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Pacquiao, who is squeamish about needles,
I thought this was a grown ass man. If you have nothing to hide than what’s the problem. This is why this is just stupid. He should just agree to testing at anytime is you are legit and just say," bring that shit’.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
What is in that WonTon soup my friend?
At this point everything is questionable and the only way to find out is to poke and probe at this point. We can thank Tiger Woods for that.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
The saga continues in this thread:
http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/23/1217303/pacquiao-mayweather-off
Comments for this one are closed.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
