Mayweather-Pacquiao Update: Nevada orders drug tests
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2009 6:16 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
55 comments
Martin Rogers of Yahoo! Sports reports that the latest development has come in the ongoing Mayweather-Pacquiao drama. The Nevada Athletic Commission has ordered immediate drug tests for both Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao.
The testing will be urine only, no blood, and has come about because as both fighters are licensed to box in Nevada, they are subject to random testing. The publicizing of this move and the fact that it's not quite random if everyone knows it's coming seems a bit strange overall, and I'm not sure I get what the point is.
[NAC chairman Pat] Lundvall insisted that differing medical opinion and information on the efficacy of various testing systems, made it difficult to ascertain which was the optimum program to use. However, she claimed she was confident the method employed by NAC was effective in catching cheats.
Truthfully, if we're not going to avoid reality or be all wishy-washy, the tests that Mayweather's camp wants are the optimum program to use, and there's absolutely no question about that whatsoever. By comparison, the tests Nevada uses are probably garbage -- not that they're totally ineffective or useless or anything, but they're not even close to the gold standard of drug testing.
Executive director Keith Kizer has been given the task of informing Mayweather and Pacquiao of this ruling. Mayweather will be tested in Las Vegas, while the NAC will pick a suitable lab in the Philippines for Pacquiao.
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Lunacy prevails. Sickening
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 28, 2009 6:36 PM EST reply actions
If this really is Team Pacquiao's final stance
I hope Mayweather will be the bigger man and accept Pacman’s terms AGAIN so the fight can be officially made.
I just wish anyone of them would be the bigger man
I want to see this fight regardless
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
If you’re using anything resembling cutting edge performance enhancing drugs you’re probably not popping a positive on a urine test.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Dec 28, 2009 7:34 PM EST reply actions
Or a blood test
Here’s the thing. PED tests are similar to what Marge Schott said about taxes, their for the little people. If Pac man or Floyd were using PEDs they have enough money to get designer untested steroids. There’s a reason Balco people beat the blood tests, no one knew what to test for. This whole issue by Floyd against Manny seems stupid to me for that reason (although I personally wouldn’t be surprised if their both taking PEDs, I would be shocked if they ever tested positive for it. Their above that).
This is a PR move, but.....
so was this whole deal to begin with.
The results will come up clean after which the NSAC can erase all doubts for both camps and move the fight along. Everyone’s happy. The NSAC also comes out looking like a tough enforcer as they want the fight to happen there as opposed to a venue run by an athletic commission that would give in to either fighter’s demands.
The results will come up clean after which the NSAC can erase all doubts for both camps and move the fight along.
There’s actually nothing about what the NAC is saying that would jibe with what Mayweather is demanding.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
100%
All fighters need to turn in urine tests at the beginning of the year to keep their boxing licenses. This is purely for show, announcing a “random” drug test at the same time one would be required anyway.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 29, 2009 10:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lets just face it
Mayweather, his pops, uncles Jeff and Roger, and Ellerbee all truly believe that Pacquiao is on steroids. And given that, they want to protect Floyd.
Pacquiao and Roach know he’s not and I’m sure they feel accepting this would in someways confirm the suspicion.
The fight is back on
My GF who trains at Wild Card with me talked to Freddie today and he told her it was back on so I believe him.
I know I have no link or any sort of actual evidence to prove it but I’m just saying . . .
I hope you’re right. There’s always one person on every message board who claims to have the inside scoop on stuff.
The MMA equivalent is meeting a fighter at the airport.
Option and I don't always get agree
But he’s not “that guy.” I’ll vouch for that much at least.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Totally.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Alex Ariza
Through all this recent hoopla, I have not heard or read word from Alex Ariza, Pac’s strength and conditioning coach. Aren’t there any articles that touch on his thoughts or at least writers who have at least approached him and got his feedback?
I recall he’s spoken, but not much. Just “no he’s not on drugs”-type stuff.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Courtesy of ESPN
When HBO televised “Pacquiao/Hatton 24/7”, it aired footage of Pacquiao taking a routine blood test as part of his pre-fight medical exam. The blood test was conducted approximately 14 days before the fight; it punches holes in Pacquiao’s argument that giving blood inside 30 days of a fight negatively impacts his performance.
Arum was intrigued by the “24/7” scenario. He told Reuters on Monday that he was ready to move away from Mayweather and announce a new opponent on Tuesday for Pacquiao, but that was before the “24/7” scenario was brought to his attention.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Well assuming this is accurate, it also punches holes in something else doesn’t it? Namely, Mayweather’s argument that Pacquiao’s success in the higher weight classes is suspect and that a blood test is needed to keep him clean.
by taco pal on Dec 28, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
But why do we have to learn this from ESPN instead of Team Pacquiao pointing to this fact right away? This stuff gets weirder by the second i tell ya!
Try blocking for a whole fight without firing counter-punches
and see how long you stay on your feet.
Team Pacquiao isn’t going to ‘defend’ their position, they’re going on the offensive by stonewalling the whole thing. If they say “look at this, look at that, see this evidence in support of us,” then PBF can keep poking them with this stick, and two weeks later Pac-man is permanently tarnished by the oh-so-cleverly-not-allegations ::eyeroll::
The only way to defend yourself is to make your opponent fear reprisals. Team Pacquiao knows the best way to hurt Floyd is to go after his bank accounts. It’s all pretty entertaining, actually.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 28, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
But they have no case. At least not against Floyd.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
But the fact that they do or don't have a case
is almost irrelevant. Almost.
The most important part of this is how it affects image and public perception. Mayweather obviously isn’t all that concerned about his image, but he loses valuable bargaining leverage if he’s obviously wrong-footed in an exchange like this.
Money really is all that matters to Floyd. And unlike many others, I don’t say that with even a trace of disdain or disgust.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Then why put up the fuss and lie about needle phobia and the 30-day stuff?
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
You’ll have to ask them, I’m just drawing a logical conclusion from the facts. Off the top of my head, one possibility is that the 30-day cutoff is a negotiating position. If Floyd demanded, say, three days and Pacquiao thinks anything under 14 will affect him, then obviously Pacquiao isn’t going to counteroffer 14 days if that’s where he wants to end up. As for “needle phobia,” I don’t think that is precisely what the Pacquiao camp has said. That is how Dan Rafael summarized what they were saying when the story first broke, but I am not aware of a direct quote. I am not questioning Rafael’s veracity, I’m just saying that secondhand reports of quotations are imprecise by nature. Every direct quote I’ve heard from the Pacquiao camp is that Manny is leery of blood tests because he thinks they will have a negative impact on his condition in the ring.
The 14 days prior still seems a bit far out – I say as close as 7-10 days would be a good compromise then also one immediately afterwards.
I will stand by my theory again – if you know you are going to be tested after the fight – who has the gall to dope on HGH/EPO that close to the fight with the chance that you may get caught???
Hustler for Death, No Heaven for a Gangster
My understanding was that the benefit of HGH is that it helps you train better over a long period of time, not that it improves your performance suddenly like steroids can. So if that’s true, just using HGH between, say, 14 and 7 days before the fight isn’t going to help you very much on the night of the fight. But that could be wrong, I’m not an expert.
I guess I could see how EPO might help someone a bit even if taken during only that short period of time, but how would a stamina PED explain Pacquiao’s alleged surge in power since he moved up to 140/147? He sure didn’t need any extra stamina in the Hatton fight, for one.
HGH allows for faster recovery times,
and assists in bulking up. By ‘assists’ I mean exactly that, it can help a fighter to work harder and longer in the gym and with the weights before resting. The fighter still has to do all of the work, it’s not like you shoot up HGH, sit down on the couch for a few weeks and BLAM, you gain 10lbs of muscle.
EPO and some of the steroids which achieve the same effect are really the only ones that help fighters significantly. They allow the body to perform at max effort for longer before tiring, which increases pretty much every aspect of physical/athletic performance: speed, power, endurance, chin, agility..the works.
Strong Man ’roids do almost nothing for a boxer, performance-wise.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Dec 28, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Roids
These aren’t the same roids that were around in the 80’s….they can easily tailor them for explosive power, which would be immensely helpful to any power puncher. All of these work along with a heavy workout regimen, something that all professional boxers most definitely have. Also if these are used along with a heavy protein diet, they can make pure muscle weight gain fairly easy.
Anyone know if you can take supplements like Creatine in the leadup before the fight and a healthy dose of Nitric Oxide an hour prior? Its stuff you can buy online at bodybuilding.com’s store and as far as performance goes – if you buy quality stuff I see how it can help you quite a bit…
Hustler for Death, No Heaven for a Gangster
You know, I still don’t know where 30 days came from. It was Arum’s counter offer, but I don’t remember a quote from Manny or Freddie saying 30 days was the minimum. Freddie has used terms like ‘a week out,’ and the Morales blood test was two days before the fight. I never had any reason to believe Arum wouldn’t move off of 30 days, but it would ‘punch holes’ in the theory if they could get Roach to move off ‘a week out’ or get Manny to take another test within two days of fight night.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Dec 29, 2009 6:30 AM EST up reply actions
Update:
“I will transmit it [word of Pacquiao’s ‘24/7’ test] to Manny once [HBO Sports president] Ross Greenburg establishes the actual date of the test in ‘24/7’ and [the Mayweather camp] makes a proposal based on what Ross has come up with. If that happens, I am sure I can convince Manny to tighten the testing window,” Arum told ESPN.com’s Dan Rafael.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
....
“It’s a very good point to point out that Manny was tested so close to the [Hatton] fight. I’m not going to suggest anything to him though until I hear from the other guys. They have to say, ‘This is what Manny did. Here is what we propose,’ " said Arum, referring to Mayweather’s team.
“Then I will bring it to Manny and say, ‘Manny, look, you took this test however many days before the fight and it didn’t affect you. Hey, you knocked him out in two rounds,’ " said Arum. “What will Manny do? I assume he will listen to me, but I can’t promise anything. But I want [Mayweather’s camp] to make a formal proposal that this is the outside date for the blood-testing based on Manny’s prior test in 24/7 and then I will move mountains.”
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Good work on both quotes.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I remember that. There is definitely something going on in the PacMan camp. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck than it’s probably a duck. I like Pacman as a fighter but if he’s cheating than that goes out the window. It’s amazing how Cotto damaged his ear canal during that fight and he didn’t even seemed fazed at all. Had he not mentioned it at the press conference and displayed the bandages no one would have noticed he was actually hurt doing that fight. it’s things like that that make you question him. And again it’s crazy because " BOTH " fighters will be subject to the same testing and procedures. So what’s really going on here. It will be amazing to see if Malinaggi is asked to step in and replace Mayweather being that he too believes that Pacman is “allegedly” juicing.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Dec 29, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Image if he is caught cheating
that would be crazy if you were in Cotto’s shoes. That would be two times that a past opponent was caught cheating after he fought them.
I’m not saying Manny is cheating or was.******
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck than it’s probably a duck.
Indeed. Manny walks like a great athlete and an exellent boxer and sounds like a brilliant athlete and a terrific boxer. It’s sad that people don’t then conclude that he is one.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 29, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please read my tag phrase
Yeah with 40M on the line and he doesn’t want to do a blood test, that a champion right! Don’t get me wrong I like Manny but it doesn’t make sense and that’s the reality of it. A lot of people are saying go ahead and make the fight, screw the tests. But when you get a chance to look in the window and see Superman put on his suit and realize that he’s not what you thought, now people want to say the hell with the sport just like baseball. Keep it clean.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Dec 29, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
BLOOD FEUD !!!!
Sometime today or early Wed. we get the word, its ON. Peace!!
If Michela Koncz
turns out to be secretly the one fuckign this up I will personally go to wherever he is and kick his ass.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 29, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you do that, can I be the random guy in the back shouting sh_t? “Oh shit looks like someone is going Ariza all over ya!”
Definitely
And when the police come you can shout “Don’t taze me bro!”
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 29, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
“So listen, we want immediate drug test. The test will take URINE samples because we believe it is just as effective as any other drug screening test. Fighter A test will be conducted in location A and Fighter B’s test will be conducted similar state commissioned location in another country.” – Exec Dir of State Athletic Commision.
I’m just trying to paraphrase what I read. I did some quick-sloppy research on the web and came across this article: Official: Olympic-style drug testing ‘most effective program’
Happy Holidays and A Happy New Year
Anyone trying to pass off urine tests as being as good as anything else is flat-out lying and hoping you don’t have Google or any curiosity.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Dec 29, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
The reason Pac. is being evasive is so that they don't act as though the Mayweather camp is ordering them around.
That being said, I wish he would be a good example and voluntarily seek out the most advanced testing program available and make that a public record.
In Bayless I trust.
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><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Like lumbar punctures? lol
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Man!
Floyd’s lame for asking manny to take needle drug test its seems like hes scared what a punk
Reppin SD (Z-G)
http://www.letsrun.com/2003/epoqa.php
Anyone read this article yet?
Hustler for Death, No Heaven for a Gangster
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