Ted the Bull's Scotch and Cigar Club (Number One)
by Bad Left Hook on Dec 6, 2009 4:57 PM EST
in Features and Commentary
350 comments
Ted Sares welcomes you all to the relocated Scotch and Cigar Club with the first edition of the feature at Bad Left Hook. Enjoy.
* * * * * * * * * *
The late Mando Ramos, Bobby Chacon, and Danny "Little Red" Lopez. (Photo Courtesy of Frank Baltazar)
This is my first club meeting on Bad Left Hook (and 13th overall), so in honor of this great new site, we will have, in addition to the old standby of marvelous Glenfiddich Single Malt Whisky, some nice Dom Perignon Champagne on ice. Hey, nothing but the best tonight. As for cigars, I was able to procure (don't ask how) a supply of Cuban Montecristo Especiales No. 2 (ring gauge 38) where 60 minutes of quality smoking pleasure awaits you. But just in case your tastes emanate elsewhere, I have Rocky Patel's, Bolivars and Cohibas on hand.
As usual, we have modern jazz, rock, blues, and heavy metal, but no dixieland is allowed in this Club. Name your tune, and D.J. "Bull" will spin the disk. In fact, the first one we have is the original "Let the Good Times Roll" by Shirley and Lee in honor of the fight Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez gave us on December 5. John Lee Hooker is poised to sing "One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer."
And, like always, don't hesitate to inject your own opinions, disagreement, or agreement.
1) Now then, the next few weeks will offer some interesting stuff, but first, my Pound for Pound top dozen. Again, this is simply a snapshot in time as of December 6, 2009.
1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Shane Mosley
4. Chad Dawson
5. Paul Williams
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Nonito Donaire
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Juan Manuel Marquez
10. Yonnhy Perez
11. Juan Manuel Lopez
12. Hozumi Hasegawa
Some might argue with Williams and Martinez, but those two fought at a high skill that, in my view, should not detract from their already solid reputations. JML's has a lot on the line when he faces tough Steve Luevano and a solid win could restore much of his diminished luster.
Others knocking on the door: Celestino Caballero, Vitali Klitschko, Koki Kameda, Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym, Lucian Bute, Andre Ward.
What do you think?
2) Kelly Pavlik in a high-risk low-gain situation
If he blows out Miguel Angel Espino (20-2) early when they meet in the friendly confines of Youngstown, Ohio on December 19, so what? Everyone expects that to happen. Sure, Espino did stop Alejandro "Terra" Garcia in March, but Garcia has never been the same since losing his WBA World light middleweight crown to Jose Antonio Rivera in 2006. Even aging Yori Boy Campas was able to wax "Terra" in one round two years later. Miguel's stoppage over Jonathan "Red Dawg" Reid in 2005 was impressive (on paper) as Reid was 33-2 coming in, but the "Dawg" had feasted on terrible opposition. In fact, he has lost nine of his last ten since the Espino stoppage. No, Espino should present no threat to Pavlik
However, if the former "Contender" extends Kelly and makes the fight reasonably competitive, a host of question justifiably will rise. And if the impossible should somehow occur and Pavlik loses, he could become irrelevant just like that. That's why this is close to a no-win situation. Espino has everything to gain (including a good payday) and little to lose; Pavlik has everything to lose and only the expected to gain. Oh yes, one other thing looms. God forbid, but if Pavlik should re-injure his knuckle in this fight and/or get another staph infection, that could prove disastrous to his boxing future regardless of the outcome.
3) What's in the water?
First Diaz-Malignaggi, then Funeka-Guzman, and now the 119-110 card in the Martinez-Williams classic. Another questionable one occurred in the Mighty Mike Arnaoutis-Pit Bull Coleman fight despite the presence of three very competent judges. What's going on?
4) Two prospects exposed; another makes his presence known.
The New Ray Robinson met someone his own height and was soundly beaten by former amateur star Brad Solomon who now replaces Philly-based Robinson as a solid prospect. Another touted Philadelphia prospect, Tyrone "Young Gun" Brunson, was 20-0-1 with all of his wins coming by KO, but he himself was out-gunned and iced by the always dangerous Carson Jones on December 12. Not a good stretch for Philly fighters, particularly when you throw in Chazz Witherspoon‘s TKO loss. At least Hopkins did what he had to do.
5) Can Kingpin back up his talk?
There are few things that sap the morale of an opponent more than knowing from the start that the most he can achieve is to keep the deficit respectable.
--Mike Casey
In a word, no. In fact, I see Vitali winning in the same manner as in his last 3 punishing beat-downs. First, he gets comfortable and finds his rhythm. Then, he starts connecting with punishing jabs and sneaky crosses all the time using deceptive movement. Finally, he will break "The Pin" down cutting up his face in the process. By round 7 or 8, "Kingpin" will be gassed and ripe for the kill. By 9 or 10, he will retire on his stool with his corner saving him from himself so he can come back to fight another day. Johnson will win fans, however, with his game effort.
6) The New "Event" Fighter
When Oscar De La Hoya retired (quite literally) in his corner after being dismantled by Manny Pacquiao at the MGM Grand, it also retired him from his mantle of Event Fighter Deluxe.
Then, when Pac Man, the perennial underdog, disposed of Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto in surprisingly dominating fashion, he quickly became the NEW event fighter, though some might say he was that after the De La Hoya win. When he fights, people get together and make it an event, social activity picks up, crime is virtually non-existent in the Philippines during fight night, Las Vegas buzzes, hotels are booked to the max, talk of Henry Armstrong abounds, and big, big money passes through the turnstiles.
When he fights Floyd Mayweather Jr., he once again will be the underdog, but it will be Manny who will make the fight an event; not Floyd. It will be Manny who creates the excitement, not Floyd. And it will be Manny who transfers his innate charisma to the fans, certainly not Floyd. That's because Manny Pacquiao is the "Event Fighter" who now has the allure of the fans in his corner.
Agree, disagree?
7) The David Lemieux Watch
This Canadian middleweight is due to fight limited Delray "The Rainmaker" Raines this Friday at the Bell Centre in Montreal. Look for him to improve his record to 20-0 with all wins coming by way of stoppage and look for this one to end within 3 rounds. Time now for David to step up to the next level of opposition.
8) Khan, Prescott, and Mitchell
With Kevin Mitchell's win over Breidis Prescott, the argument that Prescott's one-punch win over Amir Khan was a bit of a fluke gets some oxygen, not that that the "Dagenham Destroyer" is a softie. But with few exception like Yonnhy Perez, Juan Urango, and Edison Miranda, I have serious doubts about so-called Colombian bombers taking their vaunted power with them when they fight outside of Colombia. And I think I can back that up with stats if necessary. In fact, I think I can do that with Thai fighters as well.
Take a tour with me at www.tedsares.com for stories, photos, and music.
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Gotta Agree about
Vitali dominating Johnson this coming weekend. I really doubt that anyone can beat him right now. He’s too hard to hit, too strong and too smart for these guys.
I like your high placing of Dawson in the p4p ranks but why have you ranked Mayweather ahead of Pacquiao? I presume that you are using the head to head basis as opposed to comparing their resumes. I reckon Mayweather beats Pacquiao in a fight but I also beleive that Manny has got a much better list of wins.
To me the Prescott-Mitchell fight showed just how bad Khan’s chin is. It’s really shocking stuff when you consider how Mitchell walked through his shots. Of course perhaps you can argue that Khan got caught badly and that first round KOs are fluky. That may well be true but any arguments denying Khan’s chinnyness are looking thinner than ever.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
I agree it showed us a lot about how awful Khan’s chin is, but Mitchell never did quite get hit as on the button as Khan did. Then again, Prescott couldn’t finish (and then lost to) Miguel Vazquez, and he didn’t get to Humberto Toledo either.
As much as I like Kevin Mitchell — and I really like him — Prescott is no more than a gatekeeper with a punch. If he fought Khan 10 times, I think Khan wins 7 or 8 of them and gets caught a couple times. If they fought now with Roach coaching Khan, Khan would torch him.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by SC on Dec 6, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Keep your eye on Prescott’s brother who might be a comer.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think that the jury is out on Khan’s chin until he next takes a flush shot. Lewis was regarded as chinny after McCall and Rahman. Interestingly, there is a compilation video that was on YouTube showing a series of huge hits that Lewis took in his career from many fighters whose effects were nitsch. So much for a glass jaw, notwithstanding those two KOs. Wait until Khan gets hit again!
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 6, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I like a great big man to beat a great small man, but I do want Pac Man to win.. My heart sayd Manny; my wallet says PBF.
Dawson lacks charisma but not skills. He just might be the best of the bunch.
“any arguments denying Khan’s chinnyness are looking thinner than ever.” Oh oh, I know I’m going to get some incoming on that.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nice To be Finally on Bad Left Hook
Ted, I’m an now going under the Title" Aussie Vladimir" . Keep up the great Articles bro ! Cheers
by AUSSIE VLADIMIR on Dec 11, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Hand me a large blunt one, Sir Ted, if you please and a generous Glen F. Thanks, partner. And take off that music and put on Etta James for a mo, will you? Helps me think.
Well, one thing’s for sure. Manny is the biggest draw in boxing right now. It’s anout all I can think of sensibly right now. Unfortunately my distance from the fights make it difficult to comment otherwise. I won’t pretend for a moment that he has PBF’s number but he’s the one most likely right now. Also, there are so many reasons to dislike Floyd that anyone doing the pr*ck will satisfy me for a long time yet. I’m still not convinced by his defensive genius. As I say, when I sat down again and watched the Hatton fight, particularly, his elbow to the face and turning his back is about as genius as he gets but those moves do make him extremely hard to hit cleanly. But it’s fouling, let’s be smart about it.
Manny needs to be very smart in this fight and not be drawn into throwing punches which PBF can smother or block. In other words. don’t waste time hitting his arms, feint and go for the body. He’ll turn through 360 degrees to get away from that. He’s got to fight smart. That’s the key. He’s just as quick-handed as Floyd. He’s got natural punching power at the weight, although he’s conceding a fair bit of natural poundage. It’s at 147, right? To Floyd’s advantage, obviously.
Pick your punches, roll and deliver angles. Mayweather is not the world’s best fighter ever. He’s as entertaining as a fly in my scotch ad needs a spanking. I’m praying for this one, you understand, Ted?? Chin-chin.
Yes, large blunts generall mean a Big Guy is smoking if you get my drift (pardon the pun). And I smoke 60 ring Gloria Cubanos Serier R..
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you can afford them, Ted!! Personally, my favourite smoke is Gauloise Tabac a Rouller with OCB extra fine papers (for the true gourmand, you understand?) Bloody hell, it’s civilised on here, no?
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 6, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sound French to me. Ans that’s as civilized as it can get, no?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Damn, Ted….why is Tyson Fury not on your list LOL.
You know, I’d put Bute on any top 20 list.
I also have questions about Pavlik. He’s already had one post Bhop “tuneup”, why does he need two?
And yeah, what’s up with these judges? It’s a sad thing when we are getting such great fights, but such bad decisions.
I’m surprised “you know who” is not on here raving about Pavlik. As far as I am concerned, he better blow Espino out real fast because guys like Martinez and Williams showed what TRUE WARRIORS are by fighting each other. Pavlik has a lot tp prove to me that his head is still on the right way.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
He is starting to come off as a real git
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 21, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Now I’m heading out for a taste and I’ll be bacl later, but hopefully when the Poms wake up in the morning, they will be joining the club. Meanwhile, I have some good flicks to see as well. Something about Sons of Anarchy.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 6:31 PM EST reply actions
With Pavkik, he needs to get rid of Espino a.s.a.p and move off these easy fights. After the Williams Martinez fight people saw a good fight and saw the person who Pavlik was meant to fight twice. His reputation is taking a bit of a beating.
I have Pac as my top p4p since on return Mayweather has only beaten a blown up Marquez. He left the door open for Manny and by beating someone who 99% of people would of picked him to beat didnt show me alot.
Vitali will dominate like his usual fashion.
I’ve seen bit of David Lemieux via you tube and he seems like he can do alright as he steps up and with his record he definatly should do.
With Khan’s chin and prescott, I think it was a case of a bad chin and being caught cold. I put it down more to a bad chin but I think if that was later in the fight he may of taken it slightly better. If he faces a puncher and gets hit on the chin it will be good night Khan.
"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
I agree that PBF shouldn’t be above Manny. I mean we’re talking Pound for Pound, right?
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 6, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’d lov to see a rematch with Khan and Prescott, but it likely wil never happen now that Khan had gone up and Prescott has gone down. Kah’n’s body has taken very little punishment in his pro career and he should be around for a while if they match him smartly.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Khan’s got a lot to give uner Roach’s guidance. The kid was always talented but he’d been too carefully handled (weak chin, perhaps?) prior to the Prescott fight and had learned too little after too long in the paid ranks. It’s difficult though for a fighter of Khan’s talents and class to learn enough in Britain, I have to say. The promoters are too anxious not to kill the golden goose, TV-wise and so maintain his supposed golden boy status, unbeaten etc., by under-matching him. I have to confess that Khan’s chin has rarely been tested. Check out the KO percentages of every fighter he faced prior to Prescott. First big punching guy takes him out with one shot! But that’s as much to do, perhaps, with his chin in the air style as anything else…….Mmmm. Time for a smoke.
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 6, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Give Khan few years and it will be good to see were he is, who he is facing and what is skills are. Freddie is the best trainer i can think of that knows how to keep strong offence and help them build up thier defence. Once Khan has been built up and is in the process of fighting quality opponents it will be fun to watch.
He can either go the “built up crashed back to earth” way or the brought along nicely and is lived up to the hype. Im picking the latter to be honest. He will get his money but everyone knows were his weakness is and either a lucky punch or a well worked clean shot will do damage. But hope im wrong he seems like a decent guy with great offence
"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
VIA EMAIL:
Good use of my photo, Thanks….
Thank you
Frank Baltazar
Vice President, California Boxing Hall of Fame
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions
sigidy, that’s a colld profile avatar
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions
Naw, his fight with Rocky was too close for comfort, but I could see a good ragument for him being in there.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. No hard feelings, but time to move on. I like this site becuase of the way you have to sign in before you post. And because the focus is on boxing
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
This might be a long one
I’m gonna try to comment on all points because this is a fun article and props for writing it. i’m gonna need some Balvenie Double Wood and an Ashton cause I’m going to be in this one for the long haul.
Point #1.
So I got p4p fighters a little mixed up. I got tall paul all the way up to three, because of his performances and I even had him there before last night. The man is a match up nightmare with his long reach and apparently the ability to change strategy on the fly. Switch Dawson and JMM, Dawson needs to fight an elite fighter again. He does have that great win over Adamek, which like this scotch is only getting better. Replace Perez with Bute, and I could nitpick further but those are the major changes I would make.
Point #2
I hate Pavlik for all of his BS, so he deserves everything he gets, especially this situation he put himself into….
Point #3
I think terrible cards have really been happening for a while and just taking some time to check on boxer’s records before fights makes this fairly apparent. More and more fights are becoming high profile with judges being named before every fight, and fighters calling out corrupt judges. Judges need to be rated on each performance and have ratings just pro officials. In order to be a judge for a high profile fight you would have to have over a certain score. Everyone agrees that something needs to be done but there is no action happening. This would at least be a step in the right direction.
Point #4
Bad year for ‘prospects’ in general. We should institute a rule that you have to beat at least 1 respected gatekeeper before you get to be called a prospect. At least show that when you step up from tomato can, you don’t get housed. I forget where, but there was an article about how this was related to the fact that there isn’t a solid local boxing scene anymore. These ‘prospects’ would have to become a draw and prove themselves at a local level before even pretending to get a big contract. However this isn’t happening anymore and combined with careful matchmaking having given us this current situation.
Point #5
YHIHF, Vitali is going to have a lot of trouble with Johnson. Vitali has terrible footwork and Johnson has a bob-and-weave style that will actually test his footwork. The man crosses his feet all the time, and I think Johnson will take advantage of that. Really excited to see this fight. Next weekend has 5 legit fights, I’m excited!
Point #6
Hard to say that Pac is a huge draw, and the same thing could be said of FMM. It could be argued that Pac really carried the Cotto Pac and that was a huge draw but this was also a fight he could lose. There was no chance of Floyd losing against JMM and did very similar numbers. I would be curious how Pac would do in a warm up fight. Excited about FMM Pac, from your p4p I’m guessing you are leaning toward Floyd?
Point #7
Literally have no idea who David Lemieux is, so I really can’t formulate too much of an opinion on him. Does he have some fights that I should watch up on the Youtube or other outlets?
Point #8
Soft Competition can make anyone look good and Prescott is a prime example of that. The man has terrible habits and there is a clear gameplan on how to beat him. The fact that he was so highly rated was the insane hope that he would somehow change his style and channel his power into effective punching. The guy throws terribly wide hooks and this will catch people who come in with stupid aggression, which is what Khan did, and to some extent still does. Also I don’t take too much away from his win over a person not even in the top 50 of his division.
Yikes this is a long post, sorry bout that but I hope you all enjoy it and have good resulting discussion!
Man, your stuff is better than mine. I too don’t care for Pavlik either and especially the way he is being handled.
Regarding David Lemiux, a frined of mine is his trainer and manager so I have been following him since the beginning. He has TNT in his hands and is kind of old school. High truncks, plain robe that covers his head, no enturage. He is all business with no trash talk. Just goes out there and ices his opponents. So far, I really like him but he must step up now ti=o the next level. Check out his youtubes.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I first saw David Lemiux on the net when he was being used as a display by his trainer Russ Anber for boxing training. From them few vids on youtube you could tell that Russ Anber is a good trainer, he is able to break down the basic stuff relate it to something that has happened on the big stage and then build on it.
Is that his trainer still?
"Good, so it can’t go any deeper." - Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
I am leaning towrd PBF but that could change. My thinking at this point is that a great big man can beat a great small man, but then, look what happened to Cotto. Betting against Pac Man could be folly.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
how anyone can still have pbf above pacman on any p4p list is beyond me
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Dec 6, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you look at head-to-head rankings more than records
which Ted seems to do a bit (as evidenced by his rankings of Donaire, Perez and Kratingdaenggym), then I can see it. I have a much harder time thinking of who would beat Mayweather than who would beat Pacquiao.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Uncle Teddy, personally… I knew Prescott would lose. I always said that he was a most fortunate OVER hyped OVER achiever that won’t go far. I was criticised heavily on “the other boxing site” for my comments about Breidis. How many of them would readily bet on Prescott in a return fight vs Khan?? Actually… his promoters did a terrible job in failing to take advantage of his eye-poping kayo of Khan where he received TONS of publicity, the kind that takes even elite fighters years to obtain. They blew it. No, it wasn’t gonna make him any better but… he coudda got paid!!
And.. it’s good to see Uncle Teddy again, doin’ wut he duz best!! Saludos from La Isla Del Encanto, amigo!!
EZ, usted es mejores amigo. I an so happy to see you on here. You bring great knowledge of boxing to this site. Super!!!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not a bad looking list. Floyd doesn’t deserve the top spot though as he hasn’t taken on a real challenge in over eight years now. Just my opinion. Donaire might be a little high as well.
Yeah, Donaire might be a tad high.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Come on Axe, PBF did beat JMM and Hatton with conviction. But your point is taken along with Blood’s
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 6, 2009 10:56 PM EST reply actions
JMM fight was a sham, and i’m pretty sure pacquiao demolished hatton with more conviction (and at the right weight)
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Dec 7, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
True, it was a sham given the weight differenec. I’ll concede on that. But remember, he is undefeated and that has to mean something. Moreover, JMM gave Manny all he could handle.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Well I would say it was a different Manny.
And as much as it has been said already I think it’s hard to stress too much just how poor Marquez was at that weight. I honestly don’t think there is a fair comparison between the Marquez fights.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hi Ted
Here are some responses to your excellent Scotch and Cigar Club in numbered order of your original statements:
1) I like this list. I have some quibbles: I’m not ready to bump Martinez up this high. Also not as confident as you about Perez, and I’d like to see Bhop and Marquez a tad higher. But an interesting, provocative list all the same. Nice.
2) I would say that the risk to Pavlik is more “low gain” than “high risk.” He damn well better soundly beat Espino, and I think he will, despite all the issues swarming him right now.
3) What’s in the water? Good question. If I knew what those judges were drinking, I’d buy a case of it right away.
4) Pass.
5) You’re too generous. I see Vitali KOing him even sooner.
6) I actually think Floyd is better known by casual fans—at least in the U.S. I think Oscar’s mantle has been split between the two of them in a way. One thing I love about having these two as the obvious two best is how they fit so nicely into “good and evil” narratives. This is the kind of stuff that helps boxing with the mainstream. People love storylines.
7) Agreed about Lemieux.
8) Interesting points about Columbian and Thai fightes’ KO rates outside of their home turf. You should do an article about it some time.
Great feature. Looking forward to more.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I actually think Floyd is better known by casual fans—at least in the U.S
I would say it’s the same in Britain. A few times I have been asked “who is this Pakeeano guy who’s fighting this weekend”. And yes, it hurt me every time…
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 4:50 AM EST up reply actions
That s good to know. Sometimes I fall into that trap known as “everything that happens in the U.S. must happen everywhere eles.”
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Great stuff. I particularly like your point on FM and PAC. Yes, I do plan to do an article on the Colombians and Thais. Not sure how much interest it will generate, but I’ll back it up with facts anyway.
BTWM the stuff in the water is Molson’s Ice.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Fighting in Thailand or in Colombia
Is like fighting in Oklahoma in the US. A lot of cans over there that you can build a big record off of pretty easily. In Thailand, there’s even the scheduling issues, where they seem to have no problems putting a champion in with a guy who only has 3 or 4 fights to his credit and a moderate amount of Muay Thai experience. With Colombia and Venezuela, I think fighting styles have something to do with it as well. Defense just doesn’t seem to be valued as much over there, and promoters seem to try to make fights where SOMEONE will get knocked out, so even a lot of their elite fighters end up being guys who really are only gunning for the knockout, and are willing to get knocked out to do so. Alejandro Berrio is an extreme example of that one.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I hate to say it, but at one time Berrio was one of my favorites.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
I put up 5 replies where are they??
by AndroidMullen on Dec 7, 2009 7:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Well, here is one. Thanks, Droid.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
DJ Bull in da house!! - Nice move putting Steve Collins on the door.
Dig this cool new venue Ted, killer tunes spinnin’ as usual – it’s all good. Crank up some monster riffin’ Electric Wizard and I’ll torch up a Montecristo No 2 with ya from my own Havana stash. Make mine an ice-cold Boags Premium, cheers mate.
Gotta’ have Hopkins up there with Shane – 21st century fighting man – don’t mess with the 40+ demographic hey Randy Couture? Yeah I’m interested to see how Pavlik ‘looks’ against Espino whose two opponents prior to facing Garcia had a combined record of 43-42-3…. Williams/Martinez just punched the MW bar into orbit.
Love the Casey quote. Kingpin doesn’t have the necessary seasoning at this point to beat Vitali. Waldo makes interesting points but Johnson’s got 9 KO’s to his name and last honed his skills fighting Devin Vargas. He’ll have more success than Arreola and may go the distance.
Manny’s mos def the draw down here mate, we all want to see him fight, everybody loves his style. I keep visualizing Duran W15 Leonard. I believe Roach has fine tuned the fighter to beat Floyd. PacMan SD.
Good luck to young Lemieux Ted, doesn’t waste punches and can take you out with a body shot. Nice. Yeah, as with the Thai bomber, a Colombian puncher’s opponents may warrant closer inspection. How many 9-36-4 or 0-2-1 records have they scalped?
As for the inept judges? Send all the offenders to the nearest gym and make ’em spar, knock some sense into ’em, keep ’em fresh. Cheers fellas.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Snake, O love yor Profile avatar. Pure “Heartland,” eh? Thanks for your prop on ther Casey quote. And tell JC40 to get his butt on here.More later, mate.It’s bog time.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Ah the Heartland ….good times. I’ll do my best to drag JC off the beach away from all those nubile babes lol.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Ted's Cigare Club
Ted, I agree with your ranking. For those wondering why PBF should be ranked higher than Pacquiao, well…. there is not a single OBJECTIVE METRIC that would allow a differing ranking:
i) PBF is undefeated; Pac has 3 defeats among which 2 KOs
ii) PAC has NEVER defeated a prime, UNDEFEATED fighter; PBF had defeated Diego Corrales and Ricky Hatton
iii) The recent victories of PAC. , although spectacular, are tainted with a flat note: Catchweight….Interestingly, this will be the first time Pacquiao will face a prime slick-undefeated fighter, …..at a non -catchweight…14 years after….This could mean disaster.
Regarding those claiming Pacquiao is the Draw, please provide us with some metrics….
Here are some objective metrics:
Pacquiao # Oscar: 1.2 millions ppv; Mayweather # Oscar: 2.4 millions
Pacquiao # Marquez: 230,000 ppv; Mayweather # Marquez: 1 millions
Pacquiao # Hatton: 850,000 ppv; Mayweather # Hatton: 920,000 ppv
Whether you like it or not: Mayweather is the bigger draw.
Some are slow and would argue that Pac# Cotto did 1.2 millions while PBF#Marquez did 1.1 millions….compare apples with apples, would be my message.
Court is in session and facts are provided as usual.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
The objective metric you could use
Is the ‘what have you done for me lately’ factor. In the past three years, Pac has beaten:
- Prime, undefeated Jorge Solis (no, he’s not a top top fighter, but he’s a world class one, and he actually was prime and undefeated)
- Somewhat faded Marco Antonio Barrera
- Prime Juan Manuel Marquez, a top 5 p4p fighter
- David Diaz, in a fight where he moved up in weight (though I’ll acknowledge this is his worst recent win)
- Weight drained Oscar De La Hoya, which has its pros and cons: It was a HUGE step up for Pac to take him on at all, and people forget he was a 3-1 underdog (while Oscar was a 2.5-1 dog against Floyd), and he beat him MUCH more convincingly than Floyd, but it was definitely a much worse version of Oscar than the one Floyd beat
- Prime to barely past prime top 10 P4P Ricky Hatton at the weight in which he was undefeated and had been the lineal champ for 5 years
- Prime to barely past prime top 5 P4P Miguel Cotto at a higher weight than Pac’s natural weight
While Floyd has beaten:
- Oscar de la Hoya, at Hoya’s natural weight of 154
- Ricky Hatton, at Floyd’s natural weight, where Hatton had already looked like crap in the past
- Juan Manuel Marquez, 16 pounds above his natural weight.
I personally have Pac rated ahead of Mayweather at the moment, but that’s in great part because I give a lot of weight to recent records.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 7, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You make a good case Bric.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think Pacquiao’s resume is better than Maywetaher’s over all anyway. Barrera was barely faded, Morales (the second time) is the same, the real Marquez as opposed to the slow and fat guy who fought Floyd, Hatton was still renowned as a very good fighter and definitely the junior welterweight champ.
People like Baldomir, Judah and a very weight drained Corrales do not compare. Please don’t get me wrong, I think Maywetaher’s great and can easily accept having him as number one on a head to head basis but frankly his resume ain’t all that.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Points taken , Drunk.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Question
Ted,
Where do your favorite boxers come from?
From Africa and most particiularly from Ugnada, Ghana and South Africa,
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Williams &
Martinez was the best, high level, fight I’ve seen in some time (Cotto flat-out ran from Manny after a while and that took away from the match). Great, back and forth action, adjustments, lots of heart, good skill levels—just a really fine match marred only by the horrible score of one judge who should NEVER be allowed to officiate again. I had Martinzez 115-113 and have watched twice trying to figure out how Harold Lederman could have given PW the 11th—I can’t.
I hads it the other waym, but Harol’d duagher had a good compromise score that I could well live with.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Manny &
Floyd. I’ve been thrown off by Floyd outside of the ring at times, and bothered even more by his rabid and illogical fans but have always appreciated his fighting skills and level of professional dedication. Logic says that a great, big man beats a great, little man—AND, on the surface, the skills set, focus, and determination that Floyd brings seems to be the right antidote for a streaking MP; however, MP IS streaking, has fought more regularly, can match Floyd in hand-speed, and is almost freaky in his ability to punch from, and create, angles. Manny is giving up size, but I’d be surprised if he doesn’t create more problems for Floyd than Castillo did. Floyd might be better than Marquez, but he isn’t the same package as Marquez and might not fire back with the same ferocity when he faces Manny; that firing back caused Marquez to suffer some knockdowns but also kept him in the fights with Manny. So, IF he can be forced into the situation, can Floyd and will Floyd be as effective vs. the best exchanger in boxing as Marquez was? MP is on a mission. Don’t discount that.
aLSO, oSCAR GAVE pbf A CLOSE FIGHT WHILE MANNY SLAUTHERED OSCAR LIKE FRESH CARNE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Floyd prett clearly fought the better Oscar though.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
"The Things I used to Do"
for Kelly Pavlik. He definitely needs it.
—The Stevie Ray version will do fine as Kelly = blunt force trauma.
i LOVE IT. pAVLIK HAS A LOT TO PROVE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
"Don't Get Out Much Anymore"
might work well for KP, too.
“Easy does it”
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
"Can't Teach an Old Dog New Tricks"
is for sure one that he wants to avoid.
Yeah
but that A beat B formula leave a lot to question. A point is that nobody has pressured Floyd in quite the way that Manny will; and no one will have as many answers for Manny’s aggression as Floyd does. Bigger man + defense wins championships might be two cliches that hold.
Lord,
if Shane Mosley is going to get old overnight, PLEASE don’t make it against Berto!
Berto is in over his head with SSM. But if not, we have a new star out there. Meanwhile, I am a big fan of Berto’s brother who does MMA work.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Bond, The african’s combine technique they learned while fighting in the UK with an innate tenacity and warrior’s mentality. The result is an Atomic Cocktal. Watch one of them as they stick to their opponent like glue while continuing to throw punches in bunches. Agbeko is a great example of this. Of course, Azhuma Nelson was the poster child.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
And don’t forget Baby Jake Matljala. He was a little monster. He’d catch yer testicles in his grip and you were screwed big time.
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Lgendary poster Ray Gordon Reid just sent mme this email:
" GOOD—MONDAY—baddleftlefthook - BOXING-TED—STEVE-SCOTCH-SODA-CLUB-SARES—YOUR-FRIEND—RAY-GORDON-REID—WAYCROSS-GEORGIA/11/1955—HOPE-YOU- STAY ON-BADLEFTHOOKBOXIN—GOOD- ARTICLE ON—STEVE-COLLINS—KEEP—THEM—COMING—BUDDY—LAST—FRIDAY—MELISSA—HURRICANE—WAS—TO—FIGHT—HOLY- HOLM—CHICKEN—OUT-SATURDAY—VITALI- KO—OVER—KEVINJ—OHNSON JUAN—DIAZ—OVER—PAULIE—MAL- HOPEFULLY—IN—MARCH—SUPER—SIX-ABRAHAM—DIRELL—APRIL—CARL—FROCH—VS—MIKKEL-KESSLER—HOPEFULLY - ANDRE-WARD—VS—JERMAINE—TAYLOR—BOY—EVERYBODY—I—KNOW—ON—EASTSIDEBOXING—COMING—TO—BAD—LEFT—HOOK—BOXING—STILL—BANNED—ON—EASTSIDEBOXING"
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions
He has bad eyes and uses cap locks so I have to separate the words. Buy Ray knows his stuff and is a sage predictor and has a great grasp of boxing hsitory. He is a legend on another site, but gets banned for than any poster in history. He is truly loved by all. Biut it does look like a telegram.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed,
Berto IS over his head. I’m no fan, and I’d just hate to see Mosley age enough that—
Well, you see my point.
Yes, but sooner or later the same thing that happened to Glen Johnson will happen to him. He has been in a lot of brutal wars over the years. The two Forrest fights were pure savagry (spelling). Still, he has an old school toughness about him that I like. When he is in that ring, he tuns into a nerciless killer which belies his out-of-the- ring persona. I do note that his voice is staring to sound just a tad funny and that bothers me some. There is a bit of a nasal sound to iyt that I recgonve and don’t like to hear.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions
TYPOS-UGH
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions
I'm a fan of Shanes; hadn't
noticed the change in his voice and hope it doesn’t bode ill. I wonder if he HAS to keep fighting now—did wife take him big time in divorce? general fighter sloppiness with money? If so I hope he lands a real nice payday and can ride off into that Florida Gulf (?) sunset that you included at the article’s end. P.S. Jimmy Connors having a condo on Longboat Key proves that, of course, not all fighters are sloppy with money. Plus, for a man who has enough years on him to have fought the great Willie Pep, Mr. Connors is sharp! Later, going to try and do some work.
He is lost in cyberspace along with the Lavendar Man, Grammarian’s Son and Client of the Grammarian’s Son. And remember, as the market contunues to soar, “abandon ship.” “THINGS ARE NOT AS THEY APPEAR.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHAHAHA.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ted Cigare
Is it not funny to see Don From Prov giving credit o Pacquiao for beating Hatton, while deliberately omitting to mentionned that PBF Koed Hatton when he was stronger and UNDEFEATED.
Is it not funny as well to read that PACman defeated Oscar more convincingly than Floyd, when the latter defeated Oscar 2 yrs prior, at Oscar natural weight (Is it a coincidence, you dont mention pbf “moved up” as you do with Pacquiao?), whereas Oscar fought Pacman at a weight he had not fought for….excuse me 9 years?
Finally, the poster wondering why could Paul W. be up on Lederman’s scorecard, can he explain then why P.W landed 400 against 356, that is 44 more shots than Martinez?
My guess, he would say Martinez’s shots were “cleaner” (we expect the “metric” of a clean shot), then the question would be Where was he when Hopkins landed more powerfully and clean on Joe Calzaghe? Who, by the way refused to give a rematch….
My guess is , that will be the end of discussion…
Court, you are a hard man, but I love ya!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Meanwhile, I hope you are keeping “The Arragant One” in his proper place-you know, -the one who “can read tomorrow’s headline today!!” hahahahahaha The one who said “abadon ship” and then the market soared to new highs. The one who thinks Pavlik will end up in Canastota. HAHAHAHAHA. I am counting on you to slam him down when and if required.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
A. Hopkins didn’t land all that cleanly in that fight either.
B. Williams outlanded Martinez by 12%. Calzaghe outlanded Hopkins by 83%.
I think Hopkins is overarte and boring to watch unless you are a purist. But you can’t argue with success. I just don’t like the way he picks his spots aka cherry picking but I know I am in the minority on this. I did like the way Dawson agreed to fight Tarver and rematch himself with Johnson. I’d love to see him fight and retire Hopkins, but Hopkins is too smart to let that happen.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
And I had no problem with Williams winning that fight. He has now shown a warrior dimension to his already imposing persona. I just hope that fight did not take too much out of him. Martinez was marvelous as well. He remonded mo of old school fighters of the 50’s the way he would drop his hands and give short head fakes.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed on all counts. I’m just saying there’s nothing wrong with thinking Calzaghe beat Hopkins and also thinking Martinez beat Williams.
Personally, I thought Calzaghe clearly beat Hopkins. I scored Williams-Martinez a draw but would probably go with Martinez if you put a gun to my head.
I think JC slapped the crap out of him (no pun intended).
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
a brief point
you fail to mention that Hatton’s ‘natural weight’ was 140 rather than 147. Its slightly disingenuous to talk about ‘natural weight’ with DLH and not Hatton ;) Its difficult to match up their Oscar wins, but it seems more clear cut on Hatton, given there’s not really a comparison between a 140 and 147lb Ricky. While he was Undefeated at the time of the FMM fight, he had, for me as a long time Ricky watcher, given his best boxing performance in years pre Pac against Pauile, IMHO
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
And Oscar's "natural" weight in his prime
was 147, not 154. Props to Floyd for granting him a weight advantage: He saw something. Bad decision on Oscar’s part to try to come back down to his natural weight at his advanced age and long after he’d last made it in the MP fight: Oscar DIDN’T see something.
by Don From Prov on Dec 7, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think the two guys’ wins over De La Hoya are a wash. Mayweather fought a better De La Hoya but had a harder time. Pacquiao fought a worse De La Hoya and had an easier time. Wash.
Pacquiao’s win over Hatton is clearly superior to Mayweather’s win over Hatton, however.
Floyd’s win over Oscar trounces Manny’s win over Oscar, IMO. Floyd gave up weight and Oscar didn’t stink yet. I think the key to comparing the Oscars in those fights is the Stevie Forbes bout between them. We all thought maybe Oscar wasn’t so hyped up for that fight, but you look back now and Forbes was hitting him so much. Oscar very clearly won the fight, but Stevie isn’t strong, isn’t particularly fast, and has no business fighting at 150 pounds, but he got in way more offense than he should have. Maybe we should have known then that Oscar had just plain gone past it. Part-time fighters are never going to beat guys like Mayweather and Manny.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by SC on Dec 7, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
All those facts are true, but I don’t think it affects my point. At worst, it makes the question inconclusive for lack of evidence, which amounts to the same thing as a wash for our purposes. Basically what we have here an equation with two variables, both moving in the same direction, which makes it impossible to isolate either variable as the “real” explanation for the difference between the two fights.
Ted's cigare
Thanks Midnight Fox! I love ya as well…….Just playing the game of Lawyer vs Prosecutor…… Yeah The ESB guru is still in my crooshair (not sure the construction is correct…)
Taco pal: are you suggesting that because P.W outlanded “only” 12% he deserves at most a draw? Please say no…
? Damn ?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
The - guru aka the “New Paltz Poet” aka the “multi dimesional wonder” aka Adam Smith aka Alan Greenspan aka Ayn Rand aka Pavlik’s guardian aka fill in the blank after the sentence "what an -—- " is running unchecked and wild I am sure. Gob bless
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions
cool, Court. Someone once asked me if I had dementia and I said “I forgot I forgot.”
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ted, female jazz vocalists have the ability to throw me out of my fundamental state. Here is a young Russian-Israeli-Canadian-Torontonian jazz singer interpreting the russian classic “Ochi Chernye” (Dark eyes):
Quie a delicious combo. Very sexy looking and very sexy sounding.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, singers like Anita Baker can do that to me. Also, the one who sings for the Manhatan Transfer. But I’m old school and liked Anita O’Day, June Christy, Chis Connor, etc.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Actually,
Court Supreme, I ASSUME everyone on here knows that Floyd beat Hatton (though why he was a STRONGER Hatton, I don’t know—spinach?): There was nothing “deliberate” about not mentioning that fight. Taco Pal makes the point why one could see how a person might think that Martinez beat Williams and NOT think that Bernard beat JC, and he makes the point well, but I don’t even know there was a need to do so: They were completely different matches and JC did slap the shit out of Bernard—who did not come CLOSE to landing as many clean shots as Martinez; nor did he control significant portions of the fight as Maritnez did. AND, I was wondering why HAROLD, not Jullie, Lederman gave the 11th round to Williams, a round that, IMO, he clearly did NOT win. Also, and only in passing, Cigare Ted—not me—thought that Oscar coming DOWN in weight had an advantage over Manny coming UP in weight. Finally, I was making a case for MP’s chances by looking at past fights in which FM had some trouble—a method always open to question, but I THINK that in this case the two fights that I mentioned do give some insight.
So, Justice Scalia—
Case FAR from closed.
In addition to this
Hatton wasn’t as good at 147. He lacked a lot of the strength he used to dominate at 140 because he was simply facing stronger men now. Hatton against Pacquiao was, in my opinion, just as, or even more of a noteworthy win than Hatton against Mayweather.
For an example of Hatton not being as good at welterweight see his fight with Collazo.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Hatton-Collazo
That was when I first noticed he could get rocked and hurt. Louis almost had him in that last round.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
his chin wasn’t as good at that weight either.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
easy hombre
lot of capital emphasis there….
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
hehe
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Just my
style, Mr, Brock; I’d use the bold face but I don’t know how. Maybe that would be as annoying anyway?
its not annoying at all to me dude
seemed as though you we were getting a bit hot under the collar, is all. Agreed on your main points. I don’t know how to bold face either….you’d think after all this time I would, but somehow not..
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
A couple ways to bold:
One way is to surround text by asterisks (*)
The other way is to highlight the text and click the “B” above the comment box
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Cheers brick
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
No,
not hot under the collar at all. I do look back at my posts and think I sound a little too emphatic, but then in conversation, a little stress here and there doesn’t come off the same way. It would (will avoid caps on “seem”) seem easy enough to bold face or use italics, but I only get odd little configurations only when I try to do so. Hell, I don’t even understand how to put up a little picture or some identifying quote for my posts. “Otherly abled” as far as posting goes.
Put your text between the two symetrical configuration tags.
followed by another one would make this bold.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
bollocks it made it bold on it's own...
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
“bullocks” Hhmm. You must be a mate from across the Pond? I’ve been learning Englis oover the past several years from the UK posters. I have a growing list of words and exprssions.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm Scottish born and bred
I presume you are from the US? Am I correct?
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
But I must admit
that I liked the “easy hombre.” (Add friendly smile face here)
;))
same re posting, I will mail SC or Brick one of these days and find out how…
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Well, Prov. When are you going to put up a profile avatar. I change mine all the time.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions
Brian Bock has one of himself, yes?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions
this is true
been meaning to change it to something cooler/less cheesy…
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
A point on the scoring
Are we moving close to a time when a fighter actually sues a judge for his scorecard being decisive when its so perverse?
I mean there’s a margin for error on scoring things subjectively, you can have close rounds and it could be 116-112 either way, conceivably. Its pretty disturbing for me as it means that basically in a close fight a Martinez or Malignaggi can’t win, because two judges can be split down the middle and you have one whose ‘job’ it is to call everything the favored fighter’s way. Anyway, mini grumble over…lol
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
The only way that could probably happen is if they found a judge taking a bribe. Not likely. As long as it remains a subjective judgemental call, the law suit is out. But I think Ruiz might have tried it against Valuev or maybe someone elase when he got stiffed in Germany. The look on a fighter’s face when a bad call is announced—when he and everyoone in the hosue knows he won is heartbreaking. These guys risk their lives and work like dogs to get a break and often times , some political hack screwss them badly in some home town descision. I hate it.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Are you feeling me on this?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:10 PM EST reply actions
Absolutely!!!
I think its beyond a disgrace, some of the scoring, and the sooner someone tries it and holds the judge to account, the better. We simply can’t just continue to accept that it happens sometimes badly in some areas, or go ‘the right guy won in the end/it was a close fight’
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Ted, WOW, some great posts on your excellent and one and only ‘club’ BUT, Floyd over Pacquiao? not yet, not quite. Pacquiao has been active since Floyd was away, YES, Floyd looked great against a smaller JMM. However, i do feel Floyd will defeat Pacquiao and when he does that, he will regain the mantle. Cracking club as always. Regards. es milano
Thanks, es. The Grammarian and Lavandar Man send their regards. Waiting for somee of the Aussies to get over here soon. I am thinking PBF at this point but that is subject to frequent change. Remember, no one can do a head trip on a fighter better than Roach and I can see him doing something on Roger and Floyd and maybe even Senior. Should be a real circus on 24/7.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
24/7 is going to be fantastic for this one
My favourite so far has been Pacquiao-Hatton. How about you guys?
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Oscar PBF
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Ted, I think the hardest part of the negotiations is going to be the weight. Manny won’t want it at exactly 147 and i am not sure Floyd can go lower than this. I can envisage a clause like Floyd had against JMM. For every pound over 145, he will make him pay a million or two but then again, I cant see Freddie agreeing to this.
I wa sunder the impression that
there is to be no catchweight for this fight. However pretty much all the details are liable to change, especially as we don’t know for certain that this fight is on.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Roach will not agree to anything that puts Manny at a disadvantage. He is a smart cookie.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I was kind of surprised there wasn't an issue over the weight
or didn’t seem to be anyway, as it being a pound or two south of 147 would favor Pac a bit
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
It ain’t over til it’s over
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Avatar???
That’s the point. I have no idea how to put one up. Plus, I’m kind of a non-decorative person. Though, I might like to use the photo of the “rare combat personnel” you sent the other day. I know that this issue that you and BrianBrock are discussing has been gone over before, but terrible scoring is—as you indicated—an insult to people who put their health and well being on the line every time they fight. Lacking any avenue to really change things, speaking up on boxing sites whenever truly horrible scoring takes place is a good thing to do.
Yep, have to keep the pressure on. I hate to go after refs and judges because so many of them are my personal friends, but the ones in Texas and Canada need an enema!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll show you how viia email
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Marquez
drinking urine has to be the defining moment of 24/7.
Or maybe when Roger siad, “Man , that guy drank his own piss. Thatt’s nasty. Man, he is a nasty Mofo.” I loved that because Roger was spot on. That was nasty and I could not watch him do it on 27/7. WTF, it must tatse like Tecate!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
And Tecate does taste like p-ss
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions
Since I listened for
years that Floyd was not truly a WW, I’d like it if Roach did insist on 140 lb. as a starting point. Is there not something about the glove size already being discussed?
What scared me
was that Marquez had a rationale for doing it that he really believed.
juju
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Marquez
is a bit crazy methinks.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm
half Scottish. I try to ignore the other side. Marquez may be crazy but the rest of his training was brutal(not that drinking urine isn’t brutal; sure beats Rocky with the raw eggs and milk). He was running in the for-real mountains and then breaking off pieces of them and tossing about.
by Don From Prov on Dec 7, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
his altitude training was incredible. Far more than most fighters go through.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Man, that piss was nasty
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
An evening
with the Mayweahters is always interesting. The 24/7 should be great. The fight, even if Floyd controls things and it stays technical, should be great just from the vantage of the skill levels of the fighters involved. Roach, or Manny, must think they know something to take this fight so soon after the Cotto match—that something might = not much more to accomplish for Manny in the ring: He might believe his future to be in politics. I wonder about timing. Someone ready to move in a new direction—
Okay,
sorry to be hogging, but I saw the info above and I want to try this both ways and see if I have it.
Nice work ;)
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
I stay in the shallow end
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
So,
italics must work the same way. Just follow instructions, huh? No wonder I couldn’t do it.
Hehe
Perhaps you are just too stupid hasty?
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha. He is not stupid, trust me on that, but hasty—-that could well be another story
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ted The Bull!
Its good to see you my friend. I can actually post on this site so hopefully I can get back in contact with some of my old ESB boxing buddys…
Probably
both—but I might actually have it now.
Won't even try the striked phrase.
No need to prove what seems obvious.
No, thois striked phrases are duanting
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions
*Drama*
The 24/7 is going to be even more dramatic than the fight itself. The subplot , Mayweathers vs Roach will be as captivating as the the plot pbf vs Pac. Mayweather Sr had been plotting for his revenge since the Hatton’s debacle. It’s going to be nasty: it already was with Hatton, now the honour of Blood or the tribe’s pride is going to spice up what was already a boiling drama.
You could be spot on Court. Roach vs. The Mayweathers is reality TV at its very best.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Testing
Ted is now testing and is trying to use italics
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions
Go Ted!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 7, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
duh,
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Damn, I got it!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions
nice work ;)
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Yeah, this iste is all about civility. I love it.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
civility always ruled on here
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
That’s why I’m here mate.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
It;s good to be away from fatal attraction type stalkers. Scary stuff, that. Might show up at your house for God’s sakes. heh heh
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Lol
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Pacquiao-Cotto didn't hurt either
Evidently we get a lot of cross pollination from mannypacquiao.ph
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
tons
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by SC on Dec 7, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
*stake*
There are so much at stake for this fight. If Pacquiao wins, he would have cleared the last hurdle to an ATG status. If he looses, the “flat note” known as catchweight would be louder than the “sharp notes” Cotto, Hatton, Oscar. History has ALWAYS be kind vis-a-vis the winners, and merciless towards loosers…
Good stuff SC. Points are well made and no need to go to a lower court.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
IF
Floyd wins and then takes on and beats Shane, well, how do you not appreciate—if you can’t cheer for—the man?
If he does that, he will be the ATG MAN
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
How’s bouts Floyd fighting sergio 154. Manny, came up from 106 lbs win lose or draw lbflb he is the man.
by AndroidMullen on Dec 7, 2009 6:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Doid, I don’t think PBF is incclined to move up in weight. He likes to br the “big” guy. I do like Sergio, though.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
where is?
Where is MR. Bill – Uncle, Ted?
by AndroidMullen on Dec 7, 2009 6:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He is having trouble getting on this site. Technical issues.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Send him an email, doc
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
I believe too many judges mistakingly score punches thrown, not necessarily landed. A lack of emphasis is placed on defense – punches blocked, parried or slipped. A throws at B, B blocks with a tight guard, the punch ‘hits’ the gloves – sounds impressive to never-been-in-a-fight poindexter, so he counts it as a scoring punch. The science of boxing is lost on some of today’s judges.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Midnight Rambler -- Your avatar shows how much Manny relishes a fight.
Against Cotto I saw an evolved PacMan balance his style, stepping on and off the gas at will, controlling his energy, controlling the fight. Floyd will not control the attacking flow of the fight only the defensive because he will be under constant attack, and this is to Manny’s advantage. As Oscar proved, until he took his foot off the pedal, Floyd can be harrassed and out-scored with effective aggression. And Manny IS finely tuned aggression backed by fight lovin’ stamina. In and out, side to side, lead right hooks, lead straight lefts. PacMan SD.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
You have have the beat
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
*TED!*
TED, I have a bad news…the Rat is in….and you may have been fooled…Just take a look at the following two statements:
“…traffic on ESB is UP 61% over the past month! *It is AMAZING how much traffic can improve when caustic types disappear and civility returns! *Instead of one article getting 1,000 posts, ESB now has dozens of articles with scores and hundreds of posts each…”
“BLH is UP 160% over the past month! It is AMAZING how much traffic can improve when civility RULES”
“Someone must go”…….lol The Court is Supreme…
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
No comment
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Evening Gents . Glad to see the club is still going strong despite the change of venue . I think the acoustics are better in this new place though …if you get my drift ?
With ref: to the quoted Mike Casey – what the hell has happened to his site ? It’s gone all art work – no boxing ??
Gonna catch up with ths posts – see what little jems the boys have come up with !
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:04 PM EST reply actions
Well, Mike is going to try to make some money with his are and he is a great artist. We were thinking of doing a boxing site together, but he went in another direction. He is a greatr bloke and I stay in close contact with him.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Casey is one of my favourite boxing scribes – I’ve never read anything but pure class by Mike . Art is not something that lights my fire therefore Mike may be a better artist than Van whats-his-name but its wasted on the likes of me …..no class ’ya see .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Except to saty that when you have open posting, anyone can post at any time from any place without restraint, so naturally they are going to get a lot of hits. I know one fool on there (and you all know him as well) who posts from morning til night because he has no other kind of life. That’s all it takes to run up a big count. I don’t begrudge a site for that, but when one ore two imbbeciles post contantlyy, that is not an accurate or true picture of interest.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:07 PM EST reply actions
Sir Jack and Loathsome on at the same time late in the evening in France and England is scaryy indeed.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:09 PM EST reply actions
ENGLAND !!!!
Who the hell is posting from England ? It aint Mr Loathsome and it certainly aint me ! lol ! Thats like saying you a posting from Canada – close but no (rather expensive ) cigar .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:13 PM EST reply actions
Wales
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Had a job on that ran over somewhat ( from hours to days ) just got in and your right …its late here .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions
Reaso I call myself the Midnight Rambler si becuase I do my best “work” after Midnight with a scary nod to Mick Jagger and the Boston Strangler.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
LOL ! "Boston stangler " . You must be missing your partner in nocturnal adventures – the great vampire himself – Old Billy boy .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:25 PM EST reply actions
He is having techincal issues getting on here. I am getting frustrated with his inability to get on here.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Amir Khan was on Sky news today . He says the reason he won his fight so easily was because Freddy took Amir’s mobile phone ( cell phone ) off him for the last 2 weeks of camp . That must of been hard for a kid that age – very .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:28 PM EST reply actions
Ugh!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I know . ps Watched a flick you’d probably like the other day – about John Dillinger can’t remember what it was called – Depp played Robbin’ John. Cracking that .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:33 PM EST reply actions
I saw it and I like it. Depp is very good. The Biograph theater was located close to where I grew up in Chicago. We had some righteous gangsters in that city.
Now I am into the “Sons of Anarchy.” Lots of decent violence. California Biker gangs, etc.
I am also working on a mystery myself. It’s set in the Boston area and is inpsired by real (and grim) circumstances. I want to make it big before I vist the big poster in the sky.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yes – Chicago had righteous gansters all right .
I’m gonna check out Sons of A myself – heard it’s quite good .
“big poster in the sky " lol . What makes you so sure you’ll be going upwards ? You may end up downstairs with you know who ? ( and I don’t mean Ronald S .- or do I ?) .
I’m looking forward to your true crimes – When’s it due ?
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 7, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions
Mid summer.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 7, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions
New bar for Scotch & Cigar club
Hey there Ted. Great to see the S&CC tradition is still in full swing. Just like a bunch buddies meeting @ a new bar. Nice looking place here.
sthomas, how nice to see make a visitt. Yes, this club has a lot of the ole mates and many new ones. Very civilized bunch of lads.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Unlce Ted, you would have 2 drug or load your gloves 2 ko sergio..+ I had sergio beating williams…in my mind the warrior is unbeating.. who can beat this cat at 154??
by AndroidMullen on Dec 8, 2009 4:29 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Mullen, it was very close. Could have gone either way. 114-114 was a good score by Julie.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Johnny Depp is a very good actor. I will come back when Mr Bill comes on. Peace.
by AndroidMullen on Dec 8, 2009 4:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Aaargh! I’m working on it.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
testing new avatar
test
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions
Yes, it ppears he may come back as a cruiserweight and fight a slimmed down James Toney. Man, don’t these blokes know that that kind of constant gain and loss can have a devastating affect on your health in the long run? Better to take roids and stay in shape, maybe.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
BTW, Milano, thanks for the stats on LBH. Appaentlty, the New Paltz Poet is still spewing her venom.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions
Ted,
What impact do you think apartheid had on South African boxing? This comes to mind with the relese of the film Invictus. Although its about soccer not boxing it resonates.
Great question. It had a major impact becuase it forced great white fighters like Kevin Mitchell to become Road Warriors and too many great black fighters to list here to fight in the UK where they learned great technique to compliment their innate touhness. All in all, it was a travesty but it did have some unintended positive impacts on SA boxing.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Mr Sares. It was apparent that two individuals in particular were ‘out’ to get you. Not naming any ‘old’ ‘yank’ names of course. Good luck, someones loss is another’s gain. Keep punchin’ Ted Sares.
HAHAHAHAHA
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lord,
you CANNOT call a Welshman—or an Scot—English: War will ensue. BTW sthomas, have you checked out the woman poet who was practically a neighbor of yours. Dark woman, her!
How is the weather down where you are. We are getting our first serious storm tonight.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Don From Prov.
Hey there Prov. Just like old times. Not sure I recall the name of the poet you are referring to. What’s here name? I’ll see if I can find her.
BTW,
much better venue for a drink and cigar, a very smart spot. Look through the posts on this “Club” and the ones on the Drunken Cutman’s Manny/Floyd piece up above. Good stuff.
Thanks
we love our boxing discussions and it’s great to have so many new opinions and views all of a sudden.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 8, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m loving it. Boxing rules!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
AArgh
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Had a little snow in Attleboro
the other night. Will be seeing rain and wind only this evening I believer.
Eighty degrees!
ES will be out in the sun and surf. I was in the snow and slush this morning.
8" they are saying up here. Wife loves it; I don’t. Though I don’t hate it,as it is beautiful on the mountains, etc.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions
Not
beautiful on the walks (when it has to be removed) or on the roadways.
I like snow because the dog is very excited to romp in it.
Chases the Frisbee like a snow-plow. Later, off to work.
I see Diaz winning and then retiring.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Retiring?
Is this because you see him having better options due to his law degree? I mean if he wanted to keep fighting it wouldn’t be much of a problem as he is only 26 and certainly not fading.
As far as who will win that fight I reckon it comes down to whoever looks the most different from in the first fight. What I mean by that rather clumsily worded sentence is that I think what worked and what didn’t work in the first fight was clear and it’s the fighter who can capitalise on the pros and eradicate the cons which will be successful. My money is on Juan.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 8, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Bradley should do the business and the Pavsick fight is a joke. Looking forward to the Mosley fight too.
Pavlik fight is a joke and the fact it is on PPV is a travesty. If he doesn’t blow the guy out of there in one round, then I don’t know what!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Man, old Mtagwa gave him fits. I was super high on him, but that one turned me around. Boxing fans are fickle ( I’m using a nice word) and I am no exception.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions
Well Mtagwa
is a very tough customer and I think Juanma could have beat him on the cards by a wide margin if he hadn’t traded and got into a war.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 8, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Meanwhile, I’m going to the annula Ring 4 Boston Boxing Veterans Chistmas Party in East Wareham on Saturday moring and then to the Pug’s Luncheon with Prov on Tuesday. Man. I love sitting with those guys and listen to how they did against Willlie Pep or Floyd Patterson. You learn things and ger grist for the articles.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:22 PM EST reply actions
If Diaz wins
I hope he retires. I love boxing, but IMO there is no need for anyone who has his options to take years of punishment, especially when he’s reached about as far as he’s going. When he stepped up a little higher, Juan was beaten. I like Diaz, hope he makes a good payday or two, and then uses his law degree and let someone else take head shots. Counsel with law school paid off, a house, money in the bank, and the ability to appreciate it? No contest.
Bingo!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you really don’t have to be since the Grammarian is no longer around.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I miss the Grammarian . Like I miss the Lavender man .
Which one of you guys was “Old Man Fondler” ?thats what I wanna know .
My guess was es but I’m not sure ……..
I may get an avatar up tonight ….inspired by Ted . hehehe
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 8, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions
None of us nor was it ES. DON’T KNOW WHO IT WAS, THOUGH i HAVE MY SUSPICIONS.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Prov. Poet?
I replied to you above about the poet, but it got wedged into the posts, so I’m not sure you read it. Gotta get used to the new format here. What’s the poet’s name? BTW, it snowed yesterday here in the East Bay Nor Cal. I was driving down 680 just south of Walnut Creek and the Hills, almost down as low as the freeway itself, were full of snow, not a lot of it but it’s pretty rare that it happens here.
Once you get used to it, it’s not bad at all. It slows down overposting or allowing maniacs to post at will.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
sthomas,
Cythnia Cruz. Her first book. Dark, angry stuff. Have no idea if you’d like it or not. It’s likely in your local library so you could give it a free try. Snow in Cali, huh? We have 60 degrees, then two days later, the first snow of the season. Going to check out the Danny Lopez thread.
Later.
Damn, I’m g;ad I used that photo above. Talk about perfect timing.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 6:11 PM EST reply actions
I updated my avatar to pay tribute to a famous boxing guru .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Dec 8, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions
Unreal
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
LMFAO !!
Now if we could turn that into a cyber-punching bag…….
Sthomas — good to see you here at the club bro. Speaking of climate; we’ve just had Melbourne’s hottest Nov on record (some days hitting 40 dec C +) but also had a month’s rainfall in one day. Rare global weather patterns.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Let me think on this, mate , and I'll get back to you, but Nelson and Mitcthel are up there along with Ike Quartey and Hogan Bassey.l
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
He has bad eyes and uses cap locks so I have to separate the words. Buy Ray knows his stuff and is a sage predictor and has a great grasp of boxing hsitory. He is a legend on another site, but gets banned for than any poster in history. He is truly loved by all.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:18 PM EST reply actions
That was meant for Nick above
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 8, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Probably 10-12. Mostly club events in and around Boston and NJ, but I’ll also go to a big one at Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun. If I get comped, well, that’s a diffrent story, but that does not happen very often. I also go to some fights in Maryland. I need the atmosphere like a jukie needs a dix,
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Bad Left Hook is cool
Taking some time getting used to driving this machine but it’s got some nice features. Looks sleek, dig the avatar feature and the subject header in the post. The articles speek for themselves. Gonna have to ge me an avatar. Gonna enjoy myself here.
That’s what I’m talking about, mate
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
One of my former posters just sent me this from some moron on ESB who thinks I am “Hartford.” Heck, all he has to do is check the IPS.. Now you know why I like being here and away from delusional hate mongers like this:
“Old Yank
Hartford — Hey, how’s it going “Good Left Foot”? I knew you could not resist. Good luck to you. Remember when a “club” article drew 1,000 to 1,500 posts in three or four days? When “moved” to a site with 1/4 the traffic, it will logically bring 1/4 the action. Don’t get discouraged. Keep it up — it’s a good concept and will grow over time. I’m not enamored with the other writers you are now “trucking” with — and perhaps they are the explanation for why the traffic count is 25% of the big boys count. And obviously you must be right about Pep because you are never wrong about anything – he was an infallible human and infallible fighter and would have been just as good if his career was all about 12 and 15 round bouts rather than 6 to 10 round bouts and his "soft" power would have translated to stoppage after stoppage in the slice of modern boxing history called last man standing. Thanx for showing up – you are the proverbial moth to a flame.
10.12.09 @ 02:01:28
This is the guy in Sir Jack’s profile avatar. Stone cold wacko.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions
“sick puppy.” You are being charitable.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
iF YOU M,EAN, DO i TAKE hOLLY WITH ME TO THE FIGHTS, YES, MOSRE OFTEN THAN NOT. SHE ENJOYS THEM ALMOST AS MUCH AS I DO. WE KIND OF MAKE A WEEKEND EVENT AROUND THE FIGHTS AND DO SOME OTHER THINGS.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 10:04 PM EST reply actions
anyone, what are retweets?
Thanks you.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 9, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions
Ted. I am reading for sure that Hatton will fight again and the chance of fighting Khan is gaining momentum.
That would be a bad mistake and a bad way to close out a career. IMO
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Floyd is also starting to make plenty of noise about the Pacquiao fight, this fight will happen and i take Floyd to win. I wish Pacquiao would win but cant see it.
Too early for me to make a prediction, Mate.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Haye is shrewd. He knows how to agitate and translate that agitation to money. Speaking of agitation, I see the she devil accused me once again of being someone I’m not. Guess she just doesn’t get it that I am through on there. Pitiful and pathetic.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 9:20 AM EST reply actions
Thanks Es Milano. I apprciate that, mate.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions
That’s a great question. No one has ever really, really hurt him, but then, Pac is no “no one.” I just don’t know, but I do belive he can hurt him worse than Burton and Castillo did.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, it scared the crap out of me when I saw it. lol
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s Stan Laurel from Luarel and Hardy
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
115-113 for Williams. But I could see it 115-113 for Martinez or 114-114 as Julie Lederman had it. As for 119-110, that guy should be held accountable by having a confernce with the State Commission and finding out just why he scored it that way. That was awful.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m looking forward to seeing who wins in the Jean Pascal vs. Adrian Diaconu fight in Canada on Friday, Pascal is very skilled.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 12:57 PM EST reply actions
Great site, Whats with that Old Yank charcter, BUll?? She comes off as a real bitch. BTW. I like your breakdown on how King Pin is going to get brokedown. Right on tthe mark..
I try to ignore her Stevie.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ted, this has been a great Club. Keep up the tradition. Are you going to come up with your year-end “Best” list on Bad Left Hook? And by the way, it’s easy to post on here once you get used to it. I’m trying to get Sonny Hernandez to log in and maybe Rue.
Please do. I get a commission for each new poster I bring in—just kidding. lol
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’m working on ita s we post
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 10, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Ted the Bull!
Here’s one for you…What do you think is this year’s FOTY?
I have 3 in mind, Bill, but they will not be posted until after this weekend
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Better Late than Never .
Kick arse music Ted, John Lee was THE MAN ! 1.My top 10 p4p ; 1.Manny Pacquiao 2.Bernard Hopkins 3.Floyd Mayweather 4.Vitali Klitschko 5.Chad Dawson 6.Tomasz Adamek 7.Shane Mosely 8 Wlad Klitschko 9. Juan Manuel Marquez 10. Andre Ward . 11. Chris John 12. Nonito Donaire. 2. If Pavlik is near what he was against Taylor or Miranda I think he will beat Williams , Ted . I was unimpressed by Williams against Martinez. He still cant jab properly and his defence is porous .If the punisher went up to 175 my man Hops would eat him . 3.Vitali should beat the King Pin . Devon Vargas isnt much of a tune up to fight Vitali , snicker. Lets hope its a good fight. Hard to see a bloke that counterpunches off the back foot and is smaller than Vitali beating him but we shall see. 4.My fave Colombian was the great Antonio Cervantes back in the 70s Ted . Rodrigo Valdez was also a beauty . The bloke could hit like a wrecking ball . Ask Monzon or Briscoe . Big shout outs to all the old crew from the Old club .
I might be able to handle Devon Vargas. MRBILL, SIRJACK, GOATSNAKE, IRON MIKE, IRON BEACH, PROV, ES, AND A BUNCH OF OTHERS ARE IN THE HOUSE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Pacs the biggest draw in boxing now in my not so humble opinion . His Cotto fight out sold Mayweathers comeback . Proofs in the pudding so to speak.
tHAT IS, UNLESS YOU ASK kELLP pAVLIK TO STEP ASIDE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Pacquiao is the biggest draw bar none. People tune in to see Floyd get beat ( generally ). I do think he will beat Pacquiao though, but hope i am wrong. Big shout out to JC40, top man, top aussie dollar. Little shout out to the ‘man’ with a complex problem, amongst a trillion other things.
Hey es Milano, how are things in England, laddie? Pac is THE man at the moment and going into 2010. Are you goiuing to pay to wacth the Pavlik “fight?”
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, Franklindallas, you da man
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m dilligently workiung on my top awards for 2009. Should be out soon. Johnson better not spoil the stew by upsetting the Doctor. After that, Pavlik is a slam dunk so I don’t need to wait for that farce.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 6:53 PM EST reply actions
No Vitali Klit?
I gotta soft spot for my heavyweight boyz, so I gotta place V.K. in the top-12 pound-4-pound list here in Dec. of 2009…… Okay, sure, maybe in or near the # 10 spot, but in there somewhere…… “The Klit” is the goods………..
MR.BILL
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
No argument from me, MRBILL. I am a Klit man all the way.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
For sure, he is in the top ten
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I got the David Lemuiex thing right as he iced his opponent in the second round. He is 20-0 with 20 KO’s, but he needs to step up now.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 11, 2009 11:50 PM EST reply actions
Don't think
that Pavlik or Williams are going to change much by the time—or, if—they fight. To my novice eye, if Williams can take and flourish under Pavlik’s shots, he wins; if not, night-night.
Off the fight I saw, aprime Pavlik would cut though William’s wide shots and likely take him out. But the operative word here is “prime.” Espino will answer no questions whatsoever. Kelly needs to fight a btter opponent and then I will make a judgement on whether he could starch Williams. I’d really like to see Martize fight KP, because his style would be far more dangerous for him. But the weight thing is a variable here and is in Kelly’s favor. Time will tell.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 12, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
er, Martinez
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 12, 2009 8:27 PM EST reply actions
Hello Mugs
Hello and a Very big thank you to " Da Bull" for this Scotch & Cigar club what a tidy read ( As ever ) sad to see you leave your previous home Teddy but wish you luck in your new one . Ps as for the rest of you lol , Hello and Regards Josey “Spud” Wales
Josey Wales is ion the House. Man, all the good guys are coming in. Got to love it!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 13, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks " Da Bull"
Hey Ted , Did you catch the snoozer Vitaly / Johnson fight last night ? very poor indeed , i stayed up until 3 am to catch the Diaz / Paulie rematch only for the stream to go down and missed it all , tough being a Brit fight fan sometimes , i caught the Darchinyan fight and bet our mates down under were pleased , the man does own one of the BADEST left hooks around . Regards Josey
I caught it here as SC played it out. I really enjoyed doing that. Isaw some of it live in a live stream on Justin TV, but only about 4 or 5 rounds. It made watching snow melt look more exciting. It was grim, or should I say, King Pin was grim.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 15, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Ted, I was on a roll last night. I took Paulie over Diaz, VK over Safety Pin ( LOL ) and Bradley also, no hard picks there to be honest, hold on, Where is Stuck in a moment? LMAO. Good to see the numero Welshmen in da club, Frank too and many others. Drop in more often guys, ’tis a free zone from the terrible two.
Yes, this is a toxic free zone.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 15, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Nice to see JC40 finally managed to drag himself away from the surf and semi-naked babes,onya mate!
G’Day fellas, good to see you here too Josey! Yeah Vic nailed Rojas with that left hand – he was waved in too on that final shot, nice! Now he wants Donaire and Agbeko rematches, cool. Who’s young Clev fighting next Josey, any word in the valleeys boyo?
I hope Hopkins comes down here for the Green fight – 20,000+ gate, big bucks for both of em and unlike the RJ event, a decent fight. Hops UD. Vlad you out there bro? Dawson/Pascal’s a good fight.
“Safety Pin” LOL es!! Couldn’t back up the talk hey?
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Vic snet that hombre to South of the Border Dreamland.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Ted - love your profile avatar, very sinister. What's that from?
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Goaty Re Cleverly .
G’Day Goaty , Yea Nath is fighting Brancalion the guy Ko’d by Juergen Braehmer in one round for the EBU ( European light Heavy title ) late January 10 , Juergen is defending his iterim WBO L/Heavy title v Sukhotsky soon also , good chance this for Nath i’m excitied to see how far the clever boy will go , defo EU standard , World class ? yes imo but he is still young and needs time mature and the EU title is the perfect spring board imo mate .
Yep, Clev's got world class written all over him.
He’ll add that Euro belt to his collection I’m sure. Like you say, no rush but he’s starting to really sit down on his punches now hey mate. I enjoy watching the lad go to work.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Rematch of Martinez vs. Margo!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 15, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
GDay Goaty
Good Onya Goaty! Hops is a freak mate , 45 and still rolling on . Its a hard life being an unofficial breast inspector on Byrons main beach mate , the pay is shit and the missus wont let me handle the merchandise so to speak ;-) Hope your seniorita and the dogs are well mate , hopefully they will get a mild summer down your way , we are having a frigging hot start to ours up here . Josey ya mad bastard , good to see ya here mate! Starting to get a top shelf little turn up here in the new club . The bouncers are doing a top job ;-)
LMAO !!
It’s all good JC ya legend — bet you had your hands full with schoolies week too mate. Randy little root rats dropping E’s and shaggin’ all over your pristine beaches! Hope the JC clan are all well and in fine spirit during the silly season. Peace to ya man.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
The Aussies are in the house.
Gary Sinclair actually won last week
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 15, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions
He did....
A six round pts dec over Indonesian Moses Seron, who had lost 11 of his last 13 and was recently KO’d in 1 by Lenny Zappavigna. Gairy’s winding down for sure.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Stick with Action Jackson, mate
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Dec 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
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