Ranking the Middleweights: February 2009
Coming off of Kelly "The Ghost" Pavlik's successful middleweight championship defense against Marco Antonio Rubio last night, it's time to look over one of boxing's glory divisions once more.
Today, honestly, the glory of the division lies mostly in its storied past. There are some good and even a couple fantastic fighters here. But it is a very shallow division with a major lack of "big fights" that can be made.
Notes: Paul Williams isn't ranked because he's a divisional chameleon at this point. Winky Wright isn't ranked because he hasn't fought in almost two years and we have no idea what he'll look like in April.
1. Kelly Pavlik (35-1, 31 KO, World Champion, WBC/WBO Titleholder)
When I first looked at the Pavlik-Rubio matchup, I thought it was a fine comeback fight, got rid of a mandatory, and that if nothing else Rubio would come out and throw, and make it a little exciting to watch while it lasted.
It both lasted longer than I expected, going nine full rounds, and was nowhere near the fight I hoped it could be. Rubio can bang. He didn't show that. He was awful.
Pavlik is one of my favorite fighters. I have championed this guy as the future of American boxing, as many have, and that did not end for me with his loss to Hopkins. "The Ghost" and Jack Loew got back into the gym, got back into the ring, and defended the middleweight crown.
But...
His reign as middleweight champion has been less than exciting, let's put it that way. Since dethroning Jermain Taylor in an instant classic in September 2007, he's followed it up with a 164-pound rematch with Taylor, a defense against dramatically overmatched Gary Lockett, a 170-pound fight with and loss to 43-year old Hopkins, and a destruction of Rubio in his second defense. He has held the title for about 17 months and made two defenses, one of which was a joke and the other of which turned into an embarrassing rout where the challenger appeared either disinterested or completely incapable.
It's not Kelly's fault, either. He fought the guys put in front of him and he put them away, and frankly outside of the two German titleholders, there are really just not a lot of fitting challengers for him. It's the state of the division. Pavlik could move up, in theory, but the last time he bulked up was a disaster. Maybe better to stay down here, clean some clocks, and wait until they feel comfortable going up to 168 or even 175. It's inevitable with his frame that he has to move up, but he's still just 26.
Next: TBA
2. Arthur Abraham (28-0, 23 KO, IBF Titleholder)
King Arthur is probably a more complete fighter than Pavlik, and he doesn't have the loss on his record. A couple things keep him the definite No. 2 for me, though. He's never fought anyone nearly as good as Hopkins, and he's also never fought anyone nearly as good as Jermain Taylor, let alone beat someone that good.
It's not to say Arthur just fights bums, because that's untrue. Raul Marquez earned his title shot by beating Giovanni Lorenzo, and Abraham gave it to him. Abraham smashed him. Abraham also fought and beat Edison Miranda and Sebastien Demers when they were undefeated, and if there were any lingering doubts about his win over Miranda, he went up to a 166-pound catchweight last year and turned Miranda's lights off in the fourth round.
There are a lot of fine wins on Abraham's record, just as many solid wins over fading or B-level opponents as Pavlik has. The difference is Taylor, really. Kelly beat him twice. Abraham just doesn't have that sort of W yet. If Pavlik and Abraham signed to fight -- and they won't any time soon -- then it's a toss-up for me. Abraham is highly skilled and triple tough.
Next: March 14 v. Lajuan Simon
3. Felix Sturm (31-2-1, 13 KO, WBA Titleholder)
I know I bagged on Sturm's God awful opposition choices recently, but I don't deny his boxing talent. Sturm is very technically sound, doesn't get himself in trouble, and still deserves a win over Oscar de la Hoya on his sheet. The fact that he takes on gimme opponents isn't offensive as much as it is frustrating, because he'd stand at least a fair chance at outpointing Abraham or Pavlik if he fought as well as he's capable of doing. He is the distant No. 3, partially because of his love of the "who's that guy?" fights.
Next: April 25 v. Koji Sato
4. Anthony Mundine (35-3, 23 KO)
Mundine has spent his career at super middleweight, where he won a title and defended it against friends and fellow regional stars. His best win was against Danny Green, who I still wish Tarver had fought back in 2007 because I am completely convinced that Green would have beaten him. Green recently unretired to fight Mundine, but Mundine thinks he's busy at middleweight.
Mundine is another guy I've semi-trashed in the past, but another guy whose skills I do not deny. He's not as good as he thinks he is, but that's true of many fighters. Mundine ranking this high is mostly a result of the division's emptiness. He's not exceptional and I think he gets knocked out cold by Pavlik or Abraham and likely routed by Sturm. Shutting out a washed-up Shannan Taylor proves nothing. Still, I'd much rather Mundine be fighting Sturm next than freaking Koji Sato.
Next: TBA
5. Khoren Gevor (30-3, 16 KO)
An Armenian living in Germany, who has fought his entire career in that country sans two fights. Gevor challenged Abraham in 2007 and was knocked out in the 11th round, but has gone 3-0 since the loss. His other two defeats came early in his career, both to Lukas Konecny at junior middleweight in 2002. Gevor's first two post-Arthur fights were rather soft touches, but in his last bout he knocked out Amin Asikainen in Finland. Like everyone else on this list from Mundine on down, he's way behind the leaders of the pack.
Next: TBA
6. Sebastian Sylvester (29-3, 14 KO)
Hey, another German! Sylvester's last fight was a very wide points loss to Sturm in November, but he's put together a solid career for a guy who was knocked out in the first round of his first pro fight. His other loss was a stoppage against Asikainen, which he avenged in 2007 by taking Asikainen out in 11 rounds. He also beat veteran Javier Castillejo in April 2008 to get the shot at Sturm.
Next: February 28 v. Gaetano Nespro
7. David Lopez (37-12, 23 KO)
Mexican Lopez is nicknamed "The Destroyer," which must have been thought up before he ever entered a pro ring. Lopez was a journeyman with a 24-23 record after Fulgencio Zuniga stopped him in 2005, the ninth knockout loss of his career. He has since won 13 in a row. If I know the WBC, they'll try to stick this guy in a winnable eliminator at some point so he can become a mandatory challenger. Pavlik would knock his block off, but I have a lot of respect for anyone like Lopez, who started his career 5-5 in his first ten bouts and has soldiered on to become a pretty decent scrapper.
Next: TBA
8. Daniel Geale (20-0, 12 KO)
27-year old Aussie whose best career win came over then-fellow unbeaten Australian Daniel Dawson in 2007. Though his next opponent is hardly top of the line, there may be something to be learned about his legitimacy from that fight.
Next: March 11 v. James Obede Toney
9. Randy Griffin (24-2-3, 12 KO)
American enigma who appears to have no interest in continuing a career that doesn't involve Felix Sturm. He surprisingly drew Sturm in a tough, competitive fight in October 2007, then waited around for a rematch that came in July 2008. He lost, hasn't fought since, and has nothing lined up. The only people that know who Griffin is are German fans and people that pay a LOT of attention to boxing. Griffin was born in Philly and lives in Louisville. He started his career at Philly's famed Blue Horizon. Still, no one in America knows who he is.
Next: TBA
10. Javier Castillejo (62-8, 43 KO)
Castillejo turns 41 on March 22 and the end of his line is near. Still, in a weak division he's ranked because he fights some of the best guys out there still. The Spaniard has fought little in the States, notably losing to both Oscar de la Hoya (2001) and Fernando Vargas (2005) and in recent years has spent all his time in the middleweight hotbed that is Germany. He knocked out Sturm to win the WBA title in 2006, then fought Mariano Carrera and lost by late TKO in 2007. Carrera's win was overturned because of a failed drug test, and the title was returned. Castillejo lost it back to Sturm in '07. He hasn't fought since last April, when he was knocked out by Sylvester.
Next: March 21 v. Pablo Navascues
You Coulda Been a Contender...
I strongly considered bumping John Duddy (26-0, 17 KO) into the top ten after his showing against Matt Vanda last night. A few things stopped me. (1) Vanda's a gatekeeper, and even though Duddy has struggled with gatekeepers in the past, a gatekeeper's a gatekeeper. (2) Duddy's game, while improved, still begs for him to get pounded on by a big puncher. (3) He just hasn't quite earned it yet. Duddy's a great guy and makes for good fights, and with Pat Burns in his corner, he is going to get better. The defense still has holes, but Pat's a guy that won't just pat John on the back. He's going to tell him what he still did wrong, and they'll work on it. Duddy looked completely willing last night to change his style. Very good sign. Sadly he may get an offer to fight Pavlik next that he simply cannot refuse. It's not sad for John, who will make a nice payday, but I think he's going to get smashed, if not have his head taken off as I thought was likely when the idea came up last year.
Marco Antonio Rubio (43-5-1, 37 KO) would have a fine chance against most guys in the top ten, but he was no match for Pavlik. Watching the two of them fight side-by-side, the massive difference in frame was very obvious. Rubio looked tiny next to Pavlik. Maybe Rubio should take a trip to Germany and see what happens.
Enrique Ornelas (28-5, 18 KO) fought Rubio tooth-and-nail last October, and I thought he won a close fight, but the judges gave it to Rubio. There were so many nailbiter rounds in that one that I legitimately cannot argue. Hell of a fight. Ornelas has hinted that he may join his brother, Librado Andrade, at 168 pounds.
Guy to maybe watch: Russian Dmitry Pirog (13-0, 11 KO). The 28-year old currently holds both the WBC Asian Boxing Council and WBO Asia Pacific titles, which means about as much as holding a ranking in the Bad Left Hook Top Ten, but that's a nice KO rate and he's fought some experienced guys already.
Remember last year when I foolishly ranked Andy Lee (16-1, 13 KO) in the back end of the top ten? Hey, I admit my mistakes. Hell, I picked Vanda over Duddy, Oscar over Manny, and thought Pavlik would stop Hopkins. I just thought I'd bring those things up again in case anyone ever thinks I have an ego. I still like Lee, still think the stoppage against Vera was premature, but still note that neither Lee nor Manny Steward exactly raised hell about it, either. Andy lost a fight -- it happens. If he fights Vera ten times he beats him nine times. There's still a ton of promise there.
Former junior middleweight titlist Roman Karmazin (37-3-1, 23 KO) has moved up to 160 pounds. You wouldn't think much of that given that Alex Bunema stunned him on the Jones-Trinidad undercard and stopped him inside of ten rounds, but again, no depth = lots of opportunities for guys like this. He beat veteran Bronco McKart in December and has a fight coming up with "Contender" season one participant Miguel Espino in March.
Sebastian Zbik is unbeaten (25-0, 9 KO), and he's German, which means he'll probably be in the title picture by mid-2010.
25-year old Hassan N'Dam N'Jikan (17-0, 11 KO) was born in Cameroon and now lives in France. He won Le Grand Tournoi last year. It's worth a quick shout-out.
Giovanni Lorenzo (26-1, 18 KO) and Dionisio Miranda (19-3-2, 17 KO) will fight an IBF eliminator on February 27, the featured undercard bout before Tomasz Adamek's first defense of the cruiserweight championship on Showtime. The last time we saw Lorenzo was June, when he lost his "0" to veteran Raul Marquez, who outfoxed him and made him look stiff and immobile.
Amin Asikainen (25-2, 17 KO) has been mentioned a couple times, and now he's being mentioned again. The former European champion has been stopped twice in his last six fights, and the four wins haven't exactly been anything to write home about, the best over the absolutely crazy 37-year old Yori Boy Campas (92-13, 74 KO), who I'm convinced would fight a lion.
America's next hope might be 25-year old Peter Quillin (20-0, 15 KO), a solid prospect on his way up the ladder. He's been out of the ring since last September.
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I think that the shallowness of the division is parly a testament to how front of the pack the top dogs are. You saw straight-up middleweights like Jermain and Eddie MIranda flee upwards last year, and smaller dudes like Spinks and Ouma who experimented with 160 vanish into thin air. I don’t think Hopkins and Trinidad are going to visit 160 ever again. I saw Winky’s picture on the back of a milk carton yesterday it took me a minute to recognize him. 160 is pretty much a wasteland at the moment. That said, I think a boxer like Andre Ward could’ve be competitive at 160 if he wanted to, and that Paul Williams would crush anyone ranked #4 – 10 on your list.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
why not Hop?
I didn’t think Hopkins lost to Taylor by enough to lose a title, but after watching last night…. Hopkins beats Pavlik 9/10 maybe all 10. I don’t even know if Pavlik hits Hopkins with his best shot, does Hop go down? I doubt it. Hopkins would/could destroy Pav at 160 just like he did at the catchweight. If I’m Hopkins, I go back and claim what’s mine.
I would rather see Hopkins take on Chad Dawson, that would be quite a match up! Besides, wouldn’t it be hard for hopkins to shed two weight divisions at his age? surely his power would be sapped! i love bhop tho!
Because
Frankly I think he is too old to make it down there without a drain anymore. Hop is a real physical specimen, but he’s also human. Bouncing up and down the scales is something for the kids to do.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
probably way too much a drain on weight
Like Campbell said, it gets harder to fight lower as you age because of bone density. I really doubt Hopkins could do 160. 168 might even be that little bit too low anymore. But yes, Hopkins probably beats Pavlik just about every time out. Prime-v-prime Hopkins routs him something fierce, even worse than the October fight.
I didn’t think Hopkins lost to Taylor by enough to lose a title
What is with this line of thinking exactly? Boxers use it and I think it’s bullshit. “You really have to beat me if I have a title!” No, you just have to win. If Taylor had beaten Hopkins by one tenth of a point deducted via headbutt, he won the fight and thus the title. I just don’t think it makes sense to imagine, “To the winner by split decision…but NOT the new champion because he didn’t win by enough…”
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Feb 22, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I do
To take a title, you have to do just that. Go and take the title. I think of it this way: the title-holder holds a benefit of the doubt, where a case can be made for either fighter winning the fight, the title-holder should retain the title. Where a fight is a draw, the title-holder retains. The challenger bears the burden to prove that he is the winner. Taylor didn’t meet that burden v. Hopkins.
yeah, but
Hopkins still didn’t look so great in either of those fights, whether I thought he won them or not. Honestly right after the second fight was when I started thinking that Bernard’s 160 days were over. It happens. After a certain age you can’t dry out the same way you used to.. you have to start shedding muscle mass.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
This is boxing old guy bullshit, and I don’t mean that to be offensive to you because you’re not the only one that thinks this way. It’s ridiculous to say, “Well we boxed twelve rounds and you won 7 of them, but that’s not quite good enough.” Do the Phillies not get to lose 2-1 this year because they won the World Series in 2008? If you lose, you lost. Period.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Feb 22, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
I hear you but...
Let’s face it – scoring in Boxing is about as objective as scoring in Figure Skating. I knwo what I base my scores on and what everyone is supposed to base them on, but the fact is things like “effective aggression” and “ring generalship” aren’t the same as arguing about whether someone sank a basketball or crossed home plate. I mean, there are disputed calls and arguments in every sport, but Boxing is on a whole other level. How many times (even so far this year) have we seen a fight scored a certain way and yelled “horsehit!” If someone is saying that he personally scored a fight 7-5 but think that the guy who won five rounds should get the W, well I don’t really understand that logic but it makes just as much sense as some of the real decisions we get from so-called professional judges.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
harder to measure than a scoreboard
yeah but that’s not what I’m saying. This isn’t relevant if one fighter clearly won 7 rounds of a 12 round fight. I don’t know anyone who believes that a title-holder should only need to win 5 rounds. However, when there is certain doubt, as there certainly was with Hop v. Taylor I, the title-holder should retain the crown.
This isn’t relevant in a baseball/football/hockey/basketball/golf/tennis/soccer/horse racing/water polo/badminton/foosball setting. We have judges, subjective, partially obstructed, so-called style-preferential, judges. And in such a case, the challenger should be required to do exactly what you said: win 7 rounds. If he doesn’t do that, he loses.
And yes, I recognize that this is to a certain extent ‘old boxing guy bullshit’. But in a sport with judges, it’s the best standard.
we can certainly agree to disagree
I happen to believe it’s the worst possible standard employed mostly by champions and titlists that lost close fights. Oscar used it when he lost to Floyd yet had no problem whatsoever taking Felix Sturm’s title and declaring himself a “middleweight champion.”
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Feb 23, 2009 3:20 AM EST up reply actions
I can understand this argument if you only watched the second half of the fight
But Hopkins did NOTHING for the first half of the first fight. Had the fight gone for 15 rounds, sure Hopkins would have won, but that wasn’t the rules of that bout. And you can’t give a fighter the benefit of the doubt in a whole fight, you give them the benefit of the doubt in the round. And for the second fight, Taylor had the benefit of the doubt, not Hopkins, because then HE was the champ.
I thought Taylor won the first one pretty clearly by clearly winning a majority of the rounds (even though the Hopkins rounds were much wider rounds than the Taylor rounds) and that the second one was a draw.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
And seriously
If I think a round is so close that I’m willing to just give one fighter the round over the other because he’s the champ, then I seriously have to consider just making it a 10-10 round. Winning and losing a fight is based on what a fighter does in the ring that night, not what they did in the ring in their previous fights.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
are you subscribing to and disagreeing with me?
You want to make it based on a round by round benefit of the doubt? Ok, that’s fine. I didn’t have Taylor winning all of those close rounds, and as you said, Hop dominated the late rounds. You’re round by round standard gives Hopkins a wider margin of victory than my ‘whole fight’ perspective.
But this is exactly the dilemma. Reasonable minds disagree over who won, at least in part because of how incredibly close the fight was. Therefore, Taylor did not carry the burden of ousting an 8 year champ.
We can all sit here and proudly say “it doesn’t matter what the fighter’s background is, it’s what he does on that night”. How realistic is that? It’s not at all. There is an easily recognizable, enforceable standard and that is: be it round by round or on the fight as a whole, if the challenger doesn’t clearly win 7 rounds, he failed to meet his burden. And through draw or decision, that challenger loses.
"You’re round by round standard gives Hopkins a wider margin of victory than my ‘whole fight’ perspective."
How’s that? Taylor won 7 close but clear rounds (primarily because Hopkins did jack shit in those 7 rounds), Hopkins won 3 wide rounds and 2 close rounds (one of which he got the benefit of the doubt on). 7 rounds to 5 means Taylor wins, period. It doesn’t matter how wide the rounds are, unless they’re so wide as to make it a 10-8 round.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
is trinidad still active? He’s washed up. And i’m watching the winky fight. So far i have him winning the first 3 rounds. Looks like he took taylor to school and got robbed with a draw. Winky will get past williams with a decision, then next he can maybe challenge hopkins again or call out pavlik or abraham. Hopefully that happens. Winky is a great fighter.
Winky
First he has to finish sailing around the world with Jimmy Hoffa or whatever he’s been doing. It’s more than a “vacation” at this point… it’s getting towards the “unofficially retired” stage of the game.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
whenever a fighter has a devastating lost like winky’s lost to hopkins it can be tough for the fighter. I suppose it was only supposed to be a year off b/c he was planning on fighting last december but got injured. Fighters take a year off all the time. when was the last time raf marquez or isr vasquez stepped into the ring? Or clottey (tho not a fault of his own). At least they have enough from their paychecks to live off of :). Besides according to Winky the great fighters don’t want to fight him.
Not a candidate for the top 10 yet
But another ‘in the mix’ guy and probably the best middleweight prospect who’s not still on the cupcake circuit (read: Danny Jacobs) is Gannady Golovkin, who’s faced and convincingly beaten some Euro gatekeepers and has a top level amateur pedigree. He should be top 5 in the division within a year or two.
Also, I don’t think there’s a huge gap between Abraham and Sturm. I still have them ranked in the same order, but Sturm’s best two wins (Sylvester and Castellejo) are probably better than any of Abraham’s wins, and the robbery against Oscar probably counts for something. For the most part, other than the Gevor win, most of Abraham’s ‘big’ wins look worse now than they did at the time.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Miranda
I think its important to remember that Eddie gave Arthur a very tough fight the first time around. I never ranked Miranda as elite, but Pavlik put a huge dent in him, and may have ruined his chin. Abraham beat Miranda soundly the second time around, but he wasn’t the same fighter. He definitely needed a few more fights to shake off the beatdown… bad management.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
Why did deathly ill Allan Green put him down then?
Miranda never had that good of a chin. Abraham just didn’t hurt him in the first fight because he was avoiding Miranda most of the fight with that broken jaw. Frankly, I’ve always thought Miranda was overrated. He punches hard and talks a big talk, but he doesn’t punch often, doesn’t have much skill, doesn’t have much of a chin, is wide open to be hit and generally lacks the killer instinct to get a guy out of there when he has him hurt, relying on one-punch KOs.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I never said Miranda was good...
I said he gave Arthur a tough fight… which he did! Miranda was always overrated, but the fact of the matter is he was one of the best of a bad crowd in middleweight contention. Every “A / B+” level fighter busy was moving up and down in weight, clearing the way for “B- / C+” sluggers like Miranda to get in tournaments and title fights. But Miranda’s chin isn’t terrible…Allan Green knocked down Miranda for the same reason lots of guys will continue to knock down Miranda throughout his career… because his stance is awful and he fights completely off balance. But I watched him keep his legs under some serious, flush Pavlik firepower in their fight before he hit the canvas. His head was being snapped around viciously before he went down… that was classic “chin music” and it takes several fights to shake that off or you will get lit up again.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
Mundine shouldn’t be on the list. He is an idiot for and foremost and has only fought one fight at middleweight. He is just trying to cherry pick titles.
He’s trying to fight the #3 guy in the division. It’s probably the most legit thing Mundine’s ever done. Meanwhile Sturm’s fighting Koji Sato instead.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Feb 23, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
It’s probably the most legit thing Mundine’s ever done.
He’s stepped up and fought some legitimate fighters to try to win titles. I mean, he fought Ottke and Kessler, and Siaca was no slouch either. Danny Green is a bit underrated as well, though that was just a huge money fight. So this doesn’t strike me as anything new. He’ll fight someone good for a belt or for huge bucks, but other than that he takes the Shannon Briggs route.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I don’t mean to say he’s never fought anyone good, just that I don’t recall him ever aggressively pursuing something like it.
By the way did anyone notice BoxRec’s latest formula tweaking that’s bumped Kessler to #3 at 168 pounds behind Bute and Taylor? Come on.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Feb 23, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Boxrec rankings and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee
I’m sorry, but I still don’t see Mundine “aggressively” pursuing anything yet. I’m not saying that he needs to pour sugar in Sturm’s gas tank or throw a brick through his window, but his call-out wasn’t exactly convincing to me:
Mudine: “"I think it is destiny after what happened in 2001 against Ottke that I go back to Germany and fight Sturm. I’m his mandatory but we’ve got to speak to the WBA and to his management. He may vacate the title, we don’t know. Or he might fight Arthur Abraham and with them being two Germans they would make a motza so that might be more economical for him, rather than to fight a just as dangerous opponent in me for not as much money.”
It sounded to me like Anthony was ticking off all the reasons why Stum shouldn’t fight him. Who’s he trying to convince?
As for “destiny” and Das Phantom… Mundine belongs to one of the most exclusive clubs in all of boxing. I’m struggling to find a good analogy, but I think that being KO’ed by Sven Ottke is a lot like getting stuffed in the paint by Muggsy Bogues. Amateur career or not, is the sort of stuff that will haunt a guy.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko

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