With Oscar out, who inherits the title of biggest star in boxing?
Now that Oscar de la Hoya has officially put his gloves in the trophy room for good -- and this is one retirement I do not see being interrupted -- there's a gaping void in boxing that will damn hard to fill.
Simply put: Who's the draw now? Who's the big star?
For the moment, it's nobody. There are big stars, but they are big stars mostly within boxing. They are the cream of the crop for attracting boxing fans, but for the most part their crossover appeal has been limited thus far. There also aren't a lot of immediate candidates. But for fun, let's look at the applicants. One thing's for sure: It will not be a heavyweight.
One more note before we begin: I do not mean to discount the houses that guys like the Klitschkos, Arthur Abraham, etc., draw in Germany or anywhere else, and I don't want to slight anyone. Boxing is very much an international sport. Most of the world's best fighters are not Americans, and a healthy portion don't live in America or even fight here all that regularly. But to be THE star, you still have to draw in the States. For the most part the very biggest fights take place in America. Ricky Hatton could fight schlubs in front of sellout crowds in massive stadiums in England, but he doesn't.
Speaking of...
Hatton, 30, was thought by many to be clearly on the downside after his May 2008 win over Juan Lazcano, which was clear but lackluster and just didn't excite anyone. His November dominance of Paulie Malignaggi (a more dynamic fighter than Lazcano, who had skills that could have given the "Hitman" greater trouble in theory) was something of a minor rebirth of Hatton. He's not washed up.
In His Favor: He's still young enough to be The Guy for a while if he wants to stick around that long. He is one of the very biggest sporting stars in the UK, a beloved fighter whose fans travel exceptionally well when he fights in the States. The Brits invaded Vegas for Ricky's TKO loss to Mayweather, and they'll do so again in May for Pacquiao. That upcoming fight also gives him to make a huge statement: Beating the guy who resoundingly put Oscar de la Hoya out to pasture would make a lot of people who are only sort of aware of Ricky Hatton sit up and take notice.
He's also one of the most genuinely likable guys in all of boxing. His image is that of a regular Joe, a fun guy that lives his life to the fullest and enjoys a good drink, a good meal, and a good game of darts. That's not just image, either. It's who Hatton really is.
Against Him: Should Pacquiao beat him in a fashion similar to Mayweather -- by which I mean definitively -- it really cracks Ricky's reputation somewhat. So far his biggest win by far came years against Kostya Tszyu. Hatton is a determined, hungry fighter that hasn't let fame go to his head, so he won't go down without giving everything he's got. But Pacquiao's natural skills are hard to combat. Oscar lost most of his biggest fights, too, but Oscar was also a teen idol and genuine phenom. We're looking for the boxer that's going to take over, not the media darling, because there just isn't one of those.
30-year old Pacquiao is the most dynamic, exciting fighter in the sport, and he also happens to be the No. 1 pound-for-pound boxer on the planet. He's outgoing, every fight he's in is good, he promotes well, and he's almost never seen without a grin on his face.
In His Favor: The fact that he's just plain awesome to watch operate. I think we'll see just how big of a star Manny has become when the numbers come in for his fight with Hatton. Oscar-Manny did 1.25 million on PPV; let's see if that crosses over, if Manny made enough new fans that frankly probably had never seen him fight before. After Oscar did 2.4 million with Mayweather, Floyd came back seven months later to fight Ricky Hatton. That was a huge fight (950K on PPV) but wasn't close to what came before, about a 60% drop between the sizes of the viewing audience. If Manny "lost" 60% of "his audience" for Hatton, they would do 500,000, which is a big PPV, but would no doubt be a disappointment.
On the plus side, Manny and Juan Manuel Marquez set an all-time PPV record for a show main evented by fighters of their size last March, at over 400K. Hatton's a bigger star than Marquez by most ways of measuring it, but Marquez also brought in the great Mexican audience, maybe the most loyal PPV-buying demographic there is. We'll see.
Against Him: Honestly, one big thing is his English isn't so hot and his interviews don't exactly sparkle. He's also about the least combative guy ever. Even Oscar would put on his fake grimace and pretend that every time out, it was personal (this time). Manny has had heated rivalries with Marquez, Barrera and Morales, but just doesn't say a bad word about anyone. Even though it's usually faker-looking than Chris Jericho feuding with John Cena, bad blood can sell fights. Manny's never really shown any of that.
Candidate #3: Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Yeah, I'm going there. Floyd turned 32 in February and hasn't fought since beating Hatton in December '07, and right before a rematch with Oscar was about to hit the press tour in 2008, he "retired." Really, no one's ever bought it and he's expected to be back later this year by most accounts.
But while gone from active boxing and doing stuff like WrestleMania XXIV and laptop connect card commercials with Bill Curtis, Mayweather has remained one of the most talked-about guys in boxing. Why? Because for once ever, the following statement is 100% true: Love him or hate him, you pay attention to him. And a lotta people love him. And a lotta people hate him.
In His Favor: He has a natural charisma that most guys just don't have. Floyd is a big talker and one of those dudes that turns it on for the cameras, but he's a better actor than Bernard Hopkins or Winky Wright. This still makes him a bad actor (even in pro wrestling, he looked lost on the mic compared to the guys who are always there) but we're not putting him against Tom Hanks here. Mayweather emerged as a promotional force of nature with the first-ever "24/7" series, and he was even better the second time around for the Hatton "24/7." The Mayweathers as a family are entertaining. Floyd, Floyd Sr., Roger -- all of 'em can talk and talk and talk for days. Mayweather knows how to sell a fight, and I really mean sell it.
Also, he was on "Dancing with the Stars," which raised his profile among housewives, college age girls, and their boyfriends who pretend they hate the show.
Against Him: A lot of people find his style boring. I've said this before, but more "casual" fans who watch fights with me on occasion have actually loved watching Floyd because he does what he does better than anyone else in the game. But generally speaking, people love blood and guts wars, and Floyd doesn't engage in those. Even at his most thrilling, he's not a warrior, he's just been able to utterly destroy guys like Gatti, Corrales and Hatton, who weren't physically able to deal with Mayweather's bag of tricks. Unless a perfect opponent comes along, Floyd will never be in a Fight of the Year contender.
Candidates #4-7: Miguel Cotto, Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik and Chad Dawson
I put these guys together because they're all sort of in the same boat. They aren't the stars that the other three are, but they're all younger (Cotto is 28, Williams and Pavlik are 27, Dawson is 26) and they're all part of the immediate and long-term future of boxing. Also, all really seem to me to have that ability to become not just top fighters, but real stars.
They all have the same main problem: Not enough people know them and guys their age go south in their careers all the time, even if regarded as tops of the classes.
In Cotto's Favor: He's the new King of the Puerto Rican fighters, a beloved individual down there who I think will have no problem crossing any cultural borders, save perhaps for the Mexican fans, though the Mexican fans are also famous for their respect of good, hard-working fighters no matter where they're from (even Puerto Rico). Cotto also has an X factor, I think. He has a calculated cool about him that is usually reserved for movie characters. He's quiet, he's methodical, he's got a steely gaze, and he always looks like he's all business. Mayweather has a loud charisma. Cotto has a very quiet charisma. He also seems willing to fight anyone, any time, and he's proven that by taking fights with Mosley, Margarito, Judah, Quintana, Torres, and now Clottey. I don't think we'll soon be hearing about Miguel Cotto ducking anyone.
In Williams' Favor: He's a physical freak, a 6'1"-6'3" (depending on the source) welterweght with an 82" reach. We're talking about a guy who can make 147 pounds that has a bigger reach than either Klitschko brother, and just three inches short of 7-foot heavyweight Nikolai Valuev. That's insane. He also seems like he's not just rebounded from his loss to Carlos Quintana, but become a far better fighter because of it. No matter what your scorecard was, no one has ever flustered Winky Wright the way Williams did, as Tall Paul threw about 1100 punches over 12 rounds. He's constant action, he's got a laid back swagger about him, and he too seems willing to fight anyone. They're even talking about sending him up to 168 pounds if they have to. Sadly, Williams has built no notable fanbase, and doesn't even have a hometown drawing ability like Kelly Pavlik does. But if he keeps beating guys, he's going to get more popular. Talent has a way of making your fanbase grow.
In Pavlik's Favor: Let's get it out of the way: He's a white guy from midwest America. Acting like this doesn't matter is ignoring a basic truth. It does. But Pavlik, like many "great white hopes" before him, doesn't really seem to give a crap about this, and it's not like a middleweight with his power and ferocity isn't going to make fans out of everybody, no matter what color the dude's skin is. It shouldn't matter, but for business reasons, let's not lie and pretend it doesn't. He's got a tremendous following in Ohio and has also become a new breed of drawing card in Atlantic City, the former home of Arturo Gatti. Pavlik's loss to Hopkins still hasn't quite been assessed. In his one comeback fight, he routed Marco Antonio Rubio, but Rubio put up next to no resistance whatsoever. It's hard to get anything out of that. Past the obvious, Pavlik is in a money division that happens to be shallow right now, and when he starts putting on weight the right way, he should be good to go up to at least 175 pounds. I don't even discount the idea of Pavlik someday getting fat enough to be a heavyweight. Of these final four, I think Pavlik is the least likely to be That Guy.
In Dawson's Favor: He has a lot of skills, some of which still seem raw when he's in against an immovable force like Glen Johnson. But I think if they rematched, Dawson would win more clearly. He had to have learned from that fight. Dawson's biggest problems are like a combination of the last two guys: He draws in Connecticut, kinda, but nowhere else, and right now there's really just no one for him to fight. When he beats Tarver again, he beats an old man again. If he were to fight and beat Roy Jones, he beats an old man. Hopkins is the oldest of them all, but that would be Chad's best win, save for some unexpected fight with Joe Calzaghe. 175 is filled with oldsters and Europeans who have zero name in America.
I said this was just for fun, but it's also to illustrate how hard it's going to be to replace Oscar, and to maybe point out that this isn't even worth focusing on any time soon. If Manny Pacquiao becomes that guy, then awesome. It would be utterly unprecedented, but then a lot of things Manny's doing are unprecedented or damn close to it.
But none of these guys from a promotional standpoint have the total package that Oscar had, and I don't currently see any real young guns on the horizon that have that sort of selling power, either.
I don't think this means we're in for a "dark age"; not at all, in fact. I think we're in for some great fights as guys scrap and claw to be The Man in all of boxing. The upper tiers of the sport are currently filled with guys that want to fight: Pacquiao, Marquez, Mosley, Williams, Cotto, Dawson, etc. There's a lot of good fighting to go around.
We're just not going to be breaking any PPV records any time soon, or even coming within the same zip code of those numbers.
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James Kirkland
If promoted right, could be the next BIG thing.
The same could be said of Edwin Valero. Maybe the 70’s porn star look will be to his advantage….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
I have little faith in Valero. JK is a good one, though. I mean he is just nasty in there. Kirkland is almost too good to be true in a lot of ways.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 15, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Tyrone Brunson either....
(if THAT comment doesn’t drip with enough sarcasm for ya, there’s nothing more I can say….)
:)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
He has a ways to go before he can get there, I think
And unfortunately, he has all the charisma of a brick wall.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Valero or Kirkland?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
I can understand he's old
But Mosley is a pretty good candidate. Specially, after the brutal beat down he gave his last “fighter”.
"Count on us! We sponsored Margarito for several years." - CEMEX [Mexico's largest cement company.]
Its also hard to avoid the fact that, now that Oscar will be concentrating %100 on his promotional business, he is somewhat of a position to play kingmaker. I’m not saying that the “X-factor” or “it-factor” doesn’t have to already be there, or that Oscar can conjure it from The Ether, but he is a savvy guy, he’s been there and he could help a boxing star cross-over.
Scott whenever you talk about Mayweather’s cross-over appeal I have to admit I suddenly feel a little out-of-touch. It’s probably because I don’t watch the programs he’s appearing in (Wrestling, NASCAR, Dancing with Stars) or the laptop commercial you mentioned. But at the same time, I also feel like I was spoiled by growing up with guys like Leonard, Tyson, Oscar, Hagler, Mancini and even, to some extent, Holmes (although that was more in a “everyone hates him” way). Even without 24-7 promotional tools like the Internet, everybody knew who these guys were. An 87-year old gramdma’s would’ve recognized Mike Tyson on the street, and compared to Ray Leonard, Floyd Mayweather has all the charisma and spontanaeity of a trout swimming upstream. There are lots of reasons why this is the case, but in a way I do feel the castle will be without a true king for quite some time. I mean, first of all we have to fix up the castle.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
by jrok on Apr 15, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If Haye manages to beat Klitschko, he gets my vote
I suspect there will be a void for a while though, with a number of big stars but no superduper stars, like there was in the NBA between when Jordan retired and LeBron busted out.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
mine too
Haye might have a higher potential than anybody on this list. A smack-talking, aggressive heavyweight who’s willing to fight anybody is pretty much the perfect model for a top draw on PPV.
Of course, beating the klitschkos is easier said than done…
Agreed. Haye will rocket to the top with a win over K. I don’t see it happening, but it’s probably the best thing that can happen to boxing. Oscar can promote all he wants, but he can’t match the promotional force that the entire sports business reflexively gives HWs.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
yeah, but who's he gonna fight?
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 15, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Very Nice Article
I think Kelly Pavlik and James Kirkland have the best chances to be superstars. Pavlik because of all the reasons listed earlier and Kirkland because of his style. I could definitely see David Haye becoming huge because of his personality and because he has his own promotional company, just like Oscar
by pretty boy floyd on Apr 15, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
One other thought about charisma I had. I think often we make the mistake of confusing “trash talk” with charisma and crossover appeal. Trash talk can sell a fight, but rarely does it make a crossover superstar. Some guys might say Ali is an exception, but trash-talk it was only one of many weapons in his arsenal. He could also be incredibly charming, funny and witty, and even when he wasn’t, the camera simply loved the guy. He had “It,” and circumstances of the culture helped him become an symbol for other things.
As boxing fans we like a lot of things about fighters and fights that the public at large just doesn’t see. Honestly, most people you see at a bar or a party watching boxing usually just see a couple of dudes wailing on each other. They aren’t scoring rounds or evaluating styles, and they don’t know anything about records, level of competition, etc. But the true “superstars” of boxing, those guys who crossover into broad mainstream appeal, do it not by what they say but by having a real uniqueness that captures the public’s imagination in some way.
On the way up, Tyson was the opposite of a “trash-talker.” He was had a demeanor that was almost surreal in how mild-mannered and polite he was. It was truly bizarre to watch a young Tyson destroy some C-fighter with a monstrous punch, then see him race across the ring to help him to his feet, focused only on his fallen opponent, asking him if he was alright, etc. In his post-fight interviews, he would call everyone sir and talk only about how disappointed he was with his performance with that almost effeminate voice… again it was just freakish. For most casual fans and onlookers, they need to see something unusual about a guy that makes them curious and a “story” that means something to them. With George Foreman, fight fans knew that the comeback was mostly a sham. But George found HUGE crossover appeal with his “story”: The kindly old granpa coming back to teach the young whippersnappers a lesson, chopping wood and pulling wheelbarrows full of bricks and shit like that. With Leonard, it was a gentlemanly charm and sophistication that was, again, just weird and unexpected enough to capture the public’s attention.
Of all the guys mentioned here, probably Hatton comes the closest to this sort of appeal, but its still nowhere on the same order of weirdness or specialness that really makes the general population curious about a sport that for the most people see as a glorified schoolyard brawl.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
by jrok on Apr 15, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post, but “almost effeminate”? I think you can scratch the “almost.”
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Good catch, Matt
Just to clarify, back in the day Kid Dynamite made Clay Aikens sound like Randy “The Macho Man Savage.” Oooooh yeargh!
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
Scott, I think you omit an obvious factor in all this: a lot of casual fans are women, and they like eye candy as much as we do.
That’s surely a large part of Oscar’s “crossover appeal.” God bless the hardcore female fans of boxing, but let’s face it, there’s pretty high majority of male hardcore fans. If you want to draw a larger “mainstream audience,” good looks are a huge asset.
This is one major reason why I don’t see Paq—and especially Hatton—ever attaining Oscar-status. Now I may not be the best judge of these things, but even I can tell that Hatton’s one ugly mug, and this may make him more likable to many of us, but let’s face it, good looks are a huge asset in achieving stardom—in boxing, as in the rest of life.
Unfortunate, but true.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I agree with you there…
The only reason my chick used to watch boxing was to see Shane Mosley and his eyes. She would go gaga over him.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
That's yet another reason
that it’s seems almost impossible Wladmir Klitschko isn’t a superstar. That guy looks like he jumped out of superhero comic book, he’s a multi-millionaire and if that wasn’t enough of a big “F-U” to all us mere mortals out there, the dirty rotten sunuvabitch is a medical doctor. Most of us would be too busy drowning in you-know-what to even bother fighting twice a year.
But you know what? Wlad is not a superstar, and I doubt he ever will be. He doesn’t even have that Ivan Drago “Terminator” vibe about that him. There aren’t even any tall tales about him. If I a K-2 PR guy, I’d spread stories about how Vitali once killed a bear with his hands, or how Wladimir was a double agent for the Ukranian resistance. Don King would have had both brothers starring in summer action movies by now. Instead, they have some sort of a fashion line with a boring, expensive suit company. Okay.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
by jrok on Apr 15, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your third post in this thread alone that I have rec'd....
You are on FY-AHH today, sir…. :)
Even if you are completely blind when it comes to Meldrick Taylor… :)
(I’m just breaking your balls a bit, don’t worry!!)
I remember an interview with Valuev, just after he ‘beat’ Chagaev, where he got really pissed off cos the interviewer kept asking him stuff like;
“Would you fight a bear?”
“No.”
“Would you fight an alligator?”
“No”
“Would you fight a lion?”
“No”
“Would you fight a bear?”
“What the fuck is this? Are you trying to piss me off?”
:)
The interviewer was also jabberiing incessantly in this manner while out on a deer hunting trip with Valuev, which meant he was scaring all the animals away, which probably didn’t help Valuev’s mood…
As for Wlad being a secret agent, he wouldn’t be very good, for two reasons;
1. He is too tall to be inconspicuous
2. James Bond could dance. Wlad can barely walk,let alone be light on his feet….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Medical Dr from a Ukranian U. My nativism does not allow me to consider that a true ‘MD’. It sounds good, better than the "boxing banker’, but it still doesn’t really count.
He does need a PR deal besides HUGO BOSS, whatever the hell that is.
He does need a PR deal besides HUGO BOSS, whatever the hell that is.
One of the world’s finest clothiers?
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 16, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
‘Clothier’ huh. Maybe ‘designer’. You hawking ’em too?
Speaking from the ordinary, reasonable boxing fan, even the reasonable hardcore boxing fan, how many of those buy suits from Hugo Boss? What’s the target audience here?
This isn’t Roger Federer hawking Citizen Ecodrive’s or Phil Mickelson telling us ‘I invest with KPMG’. It’s a goofy ass endorsement deal for a boxer. Little different than Riddick Bowe in his Fila digs or some WT MMA dude with ‘condom depot’ stamped on his ass.
Not hawking, but it’s a fine suit. I don’t think that Wladimir is appealing to urban youth, so I wouldn’t expect FILA.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 17, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I know I brought it up, but I have to say that Hugo Boss does make some damn fine suits. However, they are expensive as all hell! I remember walking into one awhile back just to check out styles, and even their blazers cost around $1000. It’s definitely a luxury brand aimed at the ringside crowd.
"I want to see ocean. I want to see black people. I want to see palms." - Wladimir Klitschko
this is totally right
I don’t ignore it, I just don’t think there’s anyone that’s particularly sharp-lookin’. Cotto, kinda, but Oscar had matinee idol looks and smiled a lot and sang foofy songs. Cotto doesn’t do a lot of grinning.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 15, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
what about Victor Ortiz
I dont know to much about him but from what i seen he is good infront of camera, sort of has an oscar look (maybe from distance) and seems to be winning in ko fashion which is what all people like to see. If he had some story it would help. He is still building his record so it would be good to promote the hell out of him now so people can see him winning well. Is he with golden boy? if so Oscar him self can help make him into a bigger name.
Im not saying it will happen over night but maybe few years
Victor Ortiz
I was also thinking about Victor. He is a likable kid,he smiles just as much as Oscar and goes into his fights looking to do just that,“FIGHT”. I’m pretty sure he has a unique story too as to how he got to where he is today. If I’m remembering correctly, I think his parents were killed and there is quite a story behind his struggle and his sisters survival living on the streets. Not sure though, I might be confusing him with someone else. But yeah, I think Victor has a good chance of becoming a star. Him and Juan Manuel Lopez
by Full Throttle on Apr 19, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
every time i watch Hatton’s fight with Kostya, I’m irked by the absurdly flagrant fouling.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Apr 17, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions

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