More on James Kirkland's arrest
by Scott Christ on Apr 21, 2009 9:43 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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You can probably forget about seeing James Kirkland fight on May 2. You might want to forget about seeing him fight again any time soon. From the Austin American-Statesman:
Kirkland was arrested Sunday by U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents who, along with Austin police, found a loaded .40-caliber Glock pistol in the center console of his Cadillac, according to federal court documents. He was charged with possession of a firearm and ammunition by a convicted felon. Kirkland was on probation for a 2003 armed robbery.
Sunday's arrest came after federal agents staking out the Saxet Gun Show watched Kirkland give money to his girlfriend to buy .40-caliber ammunition, the court papers say.
Authorities allege that Kirkland had bought the Glock pistol the day before at the gun show for $525 and tried Sunday to buy another one but was turned down by a seller.
ATF agents said that they followed Kirkland's Cadillac, which his girlfriend was driving at high speed from the North Austin gun show.
Officers found the loaded pistol among documents in the center console of the car. Among the documents was a letter from his Travis County probation officer granting Kirkland permission to temporarily leave the state.
The court papers also say that Kirkland's probation officer told federal agents that she was in the process of revoking his probation in connection with another Austin case in which Kirkland is a suspect. She said that Kirkland allegedly had thrown a .45-caliber Ruger pistol underneath a vehicle.
Well...
What do you really say? The ATF is involved, this isn't a local Barney Fife thing that could quite well be a bungling or something Kirkland might be able to wrangle his way out of if he can figure out a good way to say the gun wasn't his or whatever. He's a suspect in a totally different case, too.
I'll be really clear: I am not just assuming he's guilty, but let's not ignore what's staring us in the face here. Kirkland's probably throwing away a promising career that could've made him a lot of money. His style is one that no one could deny enjoying. He didn't even have to turn out to be a great fighter to have been a genuine star.
I get the feeling already we're going to be wondering "What if?" about James Kirkland for a long time.
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It doesn't look good for James
Man,what a shame. I sure like watching the guy fight but he must be pretty stupid to go and buy a gun while on probation and while having another open case on him. It does not look like we will see what could have been but he brought this on himself.
I sort of feel bad for Ann Wolf. JK flushed her golden ticket down the crapper too. It’s not likely she’ll catch lightning in a bottle twice. What a nit-wit.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I agree. Ann Wolf puts her time and trust in James and this happens.
by missmanners on Apr 21, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate putting it like this, and I really wish I could think of a better way to say it, but the only thing I can come up with to say what I mean is, “That’s what you get when you train criminals.” Ann attempting to help JK (and doing quite a good job of it) is very admirable, but this isn’t that shocking. Again, I really hate putting it that way. I wish there was a softer way to say it, but there’s really not. Kirkland should’ve been smarter, but he apparently isn’t.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 21, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
"That’s what you get when you train criminals."
Pops was involved with training JK since he was like 8. There’s a pic somewhere with James really young in fight stance, unmistakeably him: virtually straight left leg, left elbow right on top of ribs, hand too low. It’s a great/tragic pic.
Ann hooked up with Pops first as a fighter, then as a trainer. James was a fighter before he was a criminal and trained by Pops and Ann on both sides of that status.
I think a more appropriate statement would be: ’that’s sometimes what you get when you train any athlete that grew up with no parents, no money and a massive proclivity towards violence’
Well, you’re right. I think I’m more pissed off about this than anything and am letting the small emotional attachment I have to JK get the best of me here. It genuinely bothers me that Kirkland has had good people helping him, was putting together a career, is driving a Cadillac that came from legitimate means, has a tremendous future, has kids to think about, and he still turns back to the type of stuff that is going to just ruin all of that. People are who they are, I suppose. It’s an absolute shame is the bottom line.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 21, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. What’s the difference between him and B-Hop? Brains I guess, but it’s really an honest question. Why did it work over here and not over there?
Who knows? I’ve been wondering the same thing.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 22, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I sort of get what you are saying
I guess the ony thing is the way you put it makes it sound like its a little her fault. I don’t like to think of it in those terms. She was no Cus D’Amato, and Kirkland was no Mike Tyson, but it could’ve been a pretty could story. And I hate to put it this way, but it was one of “those stories” that could have captured the public imagination. And yeah, it mostly had to do with a woman training a guy and how unusual that is, but that’s the sort of “crossover” stuff that makes the evening news and makes boxing popular again. Instead, we get something that just feeds into people’s biases and preconceptions about the sport. I hate that part.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
pretty good story
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I’m sorry, but the worst part about this story to me is the fact that he already got away with buying one gun, and decided he needed another one. I can appreciate the 2nd ammendment and that people have a right to defend themselves, but here we have a professional fighter who specializes in “beating the holy crap out of people” and one gun is apparently not enough for him. I’ve been to Austin, and it doesn’t seem all that dangerous to me that pro-boxers have to walk around armed to the teeth. I’ve lived in North Baltimore, the Bronx, Chester PA, and South Philly all without a gun.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
complete and utter shame. this guy was a beast and could have been involved in some ferocious wars
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Apr 21, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions
Sunday’s arrest came after federal agents staking out the Saxet Gun Show
Am I the only one who finds this part fishy?
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
What’s fishy about it?
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 22, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
gun shows in Texas are a great place to buy a gun if you’re not legally allowed to buy a gun. I’m not into guns, don’t own a gun, but I know that it’s easy to hook up with someone who’s looking to make a sale more than looking to follow the laws.
Also, in Texas a person can buy semi-auto weapons that can be easily converted into fully-auto weapons at gun shows. There’s little restriction on what type of guns can be sold at these things. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ATF stakes these out as a matter of policy. I don’t think it’s fishy on their part at all. I know it’s not endemic to Texas, but people here stockpile weapons. Scary shit.
Obama should ban guns...
Sounds like mass paranoia every one carrying a gun.
Not into firearms or know enough about them but i seen Bowling for Columbine. Give guns out to people and this obviouisly is asking for trouble for anyone.
Please educate me..Is it legal to carry a firearm in some states? Like Texas?
"But I was going into Toshi Station to pick up some power converters"-Luke Skywalker
There are different carry laws from state to state, and different kinds of carry permits. It’s a different permit to carry a concealed weapon, for instance, then it would be to carry one in plain sight. Hunting rifles are pretty much universally legit to own and carry in plain sight.
Obama can’t “ban guns.” Presidents aren’t kings that can just decree laws into existence. They execute laws, can veto legislative bills and are the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. That’s pretty much it. Specific regulation of firearms is up to the state, although federal law enforcement agencies like the ATF and the FBI can and do often get involved, particularly in cases where guns are crossing state borders. To ban firearms nationwide would require a constitutional ammendment by the U.S Supreme Court, and since this ammendment would be essentially repealing one of the key articles of our Bill of Rights, that’s not likely to happen anytime soon (certainly not during Obama’s tenure, the maximum of which would be eight years.)
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Or
I don’t think you need a new amendment to allow a state to ban handguns categorically. Get Clarence Thomas, Sammy Alito, Scalia or John Roberts off the Court and you could have a new interpretation of the second. It’s not clear (to me and a few dissenters anyway), that the second amendment grants ‘Joe-six-pack’ the right to own a handgun. It’s been interpreted that way, but it could be interpreted in many ways that allow for state militias to have guns, and the people to have some rifles and shotguns, without handguns. The Second isn’t clearly written and Scalia had to be very un-Scalia in the D.C. case to determine that state’s/locals can’t ban handguns.
“Get Clarence Thomas, Sammy Alito, Scalia or John Roberts off the Court…” Obama can’t do that either. Presidents can nominate new judges when the current ones retire or die, but he can’t fire or kill them. Supreme Court justices are lifetime appointments.
I know that there are many arguments about this, but the fact is they are merely “arguments.” Most of these arguments aren’t really about interpreting the Constitution as it was written, but rather are seeking to change the original meaning to achieve a desired social effect. It’s true that the Judicial Branch can interpret and differentiate powers between the states and the federal govenment… that’s actually a big part of why they were created in the first place. But as far as I know the Supreme Court cannot grant a state the power to ignore or retract a right enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. The Second Ammendment itself would have to be repealed.
Like everyone, I have my own opinions on this situation. But I guess this really isn’t the website to discuss them on.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
yea, we know this. I’m just saying once one or more than one of those judges come off, a different interpretation is possible. But thanks for the civics lesson
Well I wasn’t trying to be nasty. But the “Scalia, Un-Scalia”" line was a little provactive, don’t you think? How about the case of “Kelo vs. The City of New London?” Was he being Scalia or Un-Scalia in trying to defend the fifth ammendment?
All I’m saying is there are men and women here with different views.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I do categorically disagree with you that the Second Amendment clearly grants the people, everyday citizens in no official state militia capacity the right to own a handgun. You may be in the majority in your opinion, but it’s certainly not a legal certainty. Several (4) SC judges agreed with me in (D.C. v. Heller), 5 with you.
This is the difference: You and many believe it’s an enumerated power in the Second. Me and likely a smaller number believe it’s not clearly enumerated and therefore doesn’t exist unless the SC illuminates it from a penumbra.
I thought you mean Scott Christ for a second!
LOL.
But seriously, “illuminating from penumbras” sounds a little like “divining from the sacred bones” or “conjuring from the mists” to me. Many scholars ardently believe that the fathers made the Second Ammendment “second” because they knew that, as dangerous as firearms were, there were far more dangerous things in the world to free men.
I am not a lawyer, but you don’t have to be a lawyer to read and understand the language of the Constitution. A lot of people make that mistake.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
It's legal to carry a firearm in all states
In DC, it was illegal to carry a concealed weapon at all until recently, but the Supreme Court overturned that ban as unconstitutional. There are various levels of licensing required, but “the right to bear arms” is constitutionally protected.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
There is something fundamentally wrong being the largest producer and manufacturer of firearms and then saying to its citizens you can’t have them.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Last thing I'll say, I'm aware it's not the forum
There is something more fundamentally wrong about admonishing Mexico for their so-called complicity in illegal drug trafficking when their drug dealers get their guns from us. From Texas. From Texas gun shows.
Ever tried to cross into Mexico from Laredo? Couldn’t be easier and less invasive. No dogs, no guards, no problem. Ever tried to get into the US from Nuevo Laredo? Dogs, guards, guns, guards with guns and dogs and a willingness to tear apart your car. Mexican drug dealers come to Texas, stockpile weapons, go back to Mexico and kill cops, Judges and elected officials. All while we don’t have the resources or willingness to try to help Mexico get rid of a disgusting parasite of a problem that hurts both our countries and theirs especially when they try to do something about it. That’s fundamentally wrong.
Yeah I know… I go often to Nuevo Laredo for things like prescription drugs, Mexican cokes( made with real sugarcane, and not HFCS), etc…. It is damn easy to get out of the country instead of getting back in. You need a damn passport to get back in.
Anyways the thing is that you don’t want to be caught with a firearms in Mexico esp with the Army patrolling and they just don’t have the man power to check every car that goes thru the bridges. They randomly check every 10th car and heavy car and that is it.
The reality of the situation is that we just don’t have enough people patrolling the border. Forget the stupid wall… we need people checking cars for guns and drug money going back to Mexico on both sides.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Not only that...
But how would you go aboout disarming 80 million law-abiding gun owners, many of whom fervently believe that you are trying to take a way one of their inalienable human rights? That would be impossible to do, a disaster, and most likely a bloodbath. The “cure” would be worse than the disease, wouldn’t stop criminals from illegally purchasing guns and would tear the union to pieces, maybe forever.
It’s just like with illegal immigration. You have many in this country that believe we should round up and deport every illegal immigrant living and working within our borders, but how in the world would you even go about doing that? And would it be worth the pricetag in money and human misery?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I don't think its fishy
Those shows are widely known as open gun marts were they play it fast and loose with the registration. I’m sure these stings and dragnets are pretty common, and it sounds like Kirkland got swept up in one.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I take it that you have never been to a gun show.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Not in a long time. Used to go all the time with my father. Don’t go anymore, though.
I find it as a form of entrapment, basically. That and it’s almost singling out a certain ethnicity. I won’t make it racial but the argument could be made that far more African-Americans get put behind bars during these little “sting” operations than Caucasians.
It’s the same thing as if a cop hides out next to a bar while people leave, just so he can pull them over without any valid reasoning other than the fact that they were at the bar in the first place. It’s entrapment. And it’s illegal.
I won’t go into the full scale of what’s wrong with this but I know I can’t be the only one.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
Yeah it's not Kirkland's fault
After all, he only:
1. Got convicted of armed robbery
2. Won early release on parole
3. Went to a gun show and bought a gun illegally
4. Went to another gun show and tried to buy another gun illegally
5. Sent his girlfirend to buy ammunition for the gun he already had
6. Loaded the gun and drove around with it.
Not his fault at all. Obvious a conspiracy by racist cops.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I’m not saying it isn’t his fault. I just think it’s entrapment.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
How?
Did the cops set up the gun show? He got caught doing something illegal. The fact that they caught him somewhere that it’s more likely to happen isn’t entrapment. That’s like saying it would be entrapment if the cops arrested a crack dealer in a crackhouse.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
It’s the same thing as if a cop hides out next to a bar while people leave, just so he can pull them over without any valid reasoning other than the fact that they were at the bar in the first place. It’s entrapment. And it’s illegal.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
That's not what entrapment means
Entrapment would be if the cops built and operated a fake bar, served a customer 12 shots of Tequila on-the-house, let him walk out to his car and start it up, then popped him for a DUI. Not only would that be entrapment, it would be downright mean.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I am pretty sure you are misunderstanding what entrapment is.
Entrapment is when a person is induced or persuaded by cops to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit.
Cops weren’t selling alcohol to the person is and then making him drive.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Cops weren’t selling alcohol to the person is and then making him drive.
But who is to say the person drinks in the first place? That’s my point.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
You still don’t get it… it isn’t entrapment and you are wrong.
It would be like me driving in beat up car in the very nice part of town, and then get pulled over for it.
It isn’t entrapment. It is bad law enforcement.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I’m not wrong buddy. I got the term wrong but my point isn’t wrong.
I was pulled over by a cop after leaving a bar. His reason, because I was leaving the bar so I must be drunk.
You have to have valid circumstances to pull someone over other than circumstantial evidence.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
by FlyByKnight on Apr 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
I think what you are talking about is “justifiable cause” (maybe Brick or collins could confirm the technical term). In other words, arresting somone without a reasonable suspicion they did something wrong.
I don’t think that applies herre though. From the sound of it, at the very least ATF either witnessed the transaction or the second gun dealer ratted JK out when he tried to buy another gun. Either way, it sounds to me justifiable cause when you send your girl to go buy a box of ammo after you just tried to buy a gun. I mean, what are you gonna do with it, turn it into a necklace?
James loaded the damn thing too. Maybe the cops stopped him just in time?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
That’s why I’m still blaming him. I’m not saying he did nothing wrong. Just saying I found it a tad fishy is all.
P.S. I wasn’t drunk nor had a drink when I was pulled over after leaving the bar. Best believe that officer is out of a job.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
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