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You be the judge - is Manny Pacquiao the greatest Asian boxer ever?

At this point, there's a very strong argument that Manny Pacquiao is the greatest Asian fighter of all time; however, rather than making my own argument, I'll just present you with some video and key facts, and let you be the judge.

Flash Elorde - 88-27-2 (33 KOs)


Pros:

  • First Asian inducted into the IBHOF, in 1993
  • Voted by Ring magazine as the 78th best fighter of modern time in 2002
  • Arguably the greatest super featherweight of all time, with an eight year reign
  • Win over inner-circle hall of famer Sandy Saddler

Cons:

  • Never won a title at lightweight or featherweight in multiple attempts
  • Win over Saddler was at the very tail end of Saddler's career
  • Had about 10 losses, not always to top competition, in what was arguably the prime of his career. 

Khaosai Galaxy - 49-1 (43 KOs)


Pros:

  • An absolute beast who knocked out just about everyone he faced; had a reputation for being such a brutal puncher that he literally 'ruined' his opponents
  • His lone loss came seven fights into his career, meaning he had 43 wins in a row, including 19 title defenses
  • Arguably the top super flyweight of all time
  • Solid wins over Rafael Orono, Israel Contreras and Ellyas Pical
  • IBHOF inductee in 1999, voted by Ring Magazine as the 19th biggest puncher of all time, and the 43rd best fighter of modern time by Ring Magazine in 2002

Cons:

  • Never faced many of the other top fighters near his weight class, including Jiro Watamabe and Gilberto Roman (although Watanabe gave up his belt rather than face him)
  • Only had four fights with other prior, current or future titlists in his career
  • Seven of his title defenses came against fighters with less than 15 fights of experience, several of whom lost the majority of their fights after facing Galaxy
  • Only once fought outside of Asia

Fighting Harada - 55-7 (22 KOs)


Pros:

  • Handed all-time great Eder Jofre the only two losses of his career
  • Lineal champion in two weight classes (and fought for the title in a third) at a time when there were only 8 weight classes
  • Fought the best of his era, with all but two of his losses coming against other top level fighters (including a close and disputed loss against hall of famer Johnny Famechon)
  • Voted the 32nd best fighter of modern time by Ring Magazine in 2002
  • Inducted into IBHOF in 1995

Cons:

  • Both wins over Jofre were relatively close and on Japanese soil (although there isn't much controversy that they were fair wins)
  • Fought almost exclusively in Japan
  • Has a couple of bad losses on his record during the prime of his career
  • Career was on the short side for someone who fought in his era, as he retired as soon as he thought he was declining

Manny Pacquaio - 49-3-2 (37 KOs)


Pros:

  • Only fighter to ever win lineal championships in four weight classes
  • Won titles in six different weight classes
  • Wins over future hall-of-famers Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera and Oscar de la Hoya (and possibly Juan Manuel Marquez and Ricky Hatton)
  • 14-2-2 against former, current and future titleholders

Cons:

  • Loss against Morales in the prime of his career, and two very close fights against Marquez that a lot of people thought he lost
  • Most of the best fighters he faced were past-prime, and de la Hoya was completely shot
  • Relatively shorter career compared to the old-timers
  • Only 8-1-2 in official title fights
  • Fought in an era with four title belts and 17 weight classes

Pancho Villa - 92-8-4 (22 KOs)


Pros:

  • First Asian titlist ever, beating all-time great Jimmy Wilde for the flyweight title in New York City
  • Probably only scratched the surface of his greatness, as he died at age 24 due to complications from a tooth infection (although some do think he was poisoned)
  • Voted the 59th best fighter of modern time by Ring Magazine in 2002
  • Mostly fought under circumstances that are now hard to imagine - a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, being transported by train all over the country, usually fighting two or three times a month with no set gym to train in.
  • Never knocked out, and was only down 5 times in his career, despite facing several big punchers (Wilde is often lauded as the hardest puncher pound for pound in boxing history)

Cons:

  • Relatively short career for his era, because of his death
  • A couple of losses to less than spectacular fighters
  • Outside of Wilde, Jimmy Buff and Frankie Genaro (who he lost to twice), not as many notable names on his record as some others, though a lot of this is mitigated by the fact that he never had the chance to due to his death
Poll
Who is the greatest Asian boxer of all time?
Flash Elorde
4 votes
Khaosai Galaxy
6 votes
Fighting Harada
4 votes
Manny Pacquaio
235 votes
Pancho Villa
24 votes
Other
0 votes

273 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 22 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Haven't watched all the videos yet but..

I don’t think we can say that DLH was “completely shot” when Pac beat him. In retrospect, I think DLH’s loss is a testament to his chin.

Why was DLH completely shot? Because Pac dominated him and DLH couldn’t hit him? I think both of those can be explained by Pac’s greatness more than DLH’s shotness. Would a young DLH be able to find Pac and not get KO’d by him? I tend to doubt it.

by lcollins1 on May 11, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions  

There’s no way you can argue that Oscar was healthy that night, though. The man was clearly drained to death. Freddie Roach has even said he saw fresh IV marks in Oscar’s arm when they all met at center ring. I don’t think it lessens Pacquiao’s accomplishment, really, but that was not a good Oscar. He was God awful.

And anyway, even if I had thought that lessened what Manny did, his complete manhandling of Hatton so trumped it that it hardly matters now.

One of the things that worried me just before Oscar-Manny for Oscar’s side was re-watching Oscar-Forbes a few days before the fight and really noticing how easily Forbes hit him a lot of the time. I think Oscar was clearly not the fighter he used to be, and maybe even totally shot, but I think more important is that in both fights he’d had to come down in weight and I just don’t think it suited him. At 154, I figure Oscar could come back tomorrow and be top 10.

by Scott Christ on May 11, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree on the issue of DLH not being at his peak or anywhere near, but I don’t agree that his win over Hatton ‘completely trumps’ that. DLH got hit by Stevie Forbes, but Forbes is slick, capable defensively, and DLH tagged him with the left hook again and again.

The win over DLH, even a drained DLH, is better than the win over Hatton. Looking back, Hatton’s never had a great chin. He got rocked badly by Collazo (really he got KD’d). I think stopping DLH, even a drained DLH is a better win than beating Hatton. Certainly the aesthetic of the Hatton destruction has more shock-value, but who else stopped DLH? Only B-Hop right? At MW. That’s an amazing stoppage.

by lcollins1 on May 11, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, it is amazing stoppage, I’m not disagreeing. I personally think the Hatton win is bigger — Hatton was healthy, not totally considered past his prime (even if we don’t consider Oscar “shot”), and Hatton was home at 140 pounds for that fight. Hatton was at best a second-tier welter, where he was challenged by Collazo and beaten by Floyd. But he’d really never been bad at 140 and he looked great the previous fight against the division’s No. 1 contender.

But Oscar was really, really out of shape in that fight. I don’t think there’s any way of getting around that. Forbes is capable defensively but had no business at 150 pounds and Oscar’s left hook was more hesitant than it should have been in that fight, but I also think weight affected Oscar that night. Looking back, is it that shocking that Manny beat up Oscar when Oscar couldn’t really dent Forbes, who is no bigger than Manny and certainly doesn’t have the pop?

by Scott Christ on May 11, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

nobody dented Forbes, I think DLH came as close as anyone.

by lcollins1 on May 11, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never even heard of these guys. Galaxy sure appears to hit like a maniac. And he engages in some seriously dirty boxing with the holding behind the head and hitting.

by lcollins1 on May 11, 2009 1:56 AM EDT reply actions  

this is a great post nonetheless

The Pros & Cons are right-on, & great video picks. The knee-jerk reaction is to vote Pacquiao, but compelling arguments are definitely made for each fighter.

by steak_knife on May 11, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I went with Pacquiao. Bert Sugar said as much recently. It’s mostly due to the fact that globally he has accomplished so, so much. But my God — look at Galaxy’s arms. What a monster.

by Scott Christ on May 11, 2009 3:38 AM EDT reply actions  

He was built like a little Superman

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 11, 2009 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

And guys were just in agony after he hit them, even when he didn’t KO them with one punch. He would just rip a guys pain threshold right in half.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 11, 2009 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay last thing I’ll say about Galaxy, but he was such a fearsome stalker and killer. He would just walk guys into corners like a jungle cat. If you only watch the feet of his opponents, you can literally see the fear of his punching power in the way they move. A truly monstrous foe.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 11, 2009 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

And suprising since most former kickboxers are feather-fisted.

Keep looking for Madeleine McCann. She is out there.

by dinkman on May 11, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tell that

To Melvin Manhoef

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 11, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greatest from that neck of the woods.

I voted Pacquiao after some strong consideration for Galaxy.

I was going to put Galaxy, great record and Jrok is dead on, he was a vicious banger when he wanted to be. I got a few of his fights on tape from Nearly 2 decades ago somewhere. The fight that sticks in my mind was against Cobra Blanca and i remember it because Galaxy had to get off his arse to win by KO.

Elorde & Flash i admit i not seen too much,You Tube and what i can remember from the history books. Villa had to be something to dethrone Jimmy Wilde.

Keep looking for Madeleine McCann. She is out there.

by dinkman on May 11, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

possible correction

For Flash Elorde a con is that Saddler was near the end of his career when Flash beat him.

However, wasn’t Wilde near the end of his career when Villa stopped him?

by missmanners on May 11, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes

Probably should have been consistent there. Not only was it the last fight of his career, but he had a long stretch of inactivity before the fight.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 11, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

i still like galaxy

my vote still goes with galaxy. he was just completely dominate for years and years and 40 something fights in a row. pacman id put in second, i’ll give him the nod if/when he fights and defeats floyd. pacman hasn’t shown the dominance galaxy did, his last two fights for sure but the jmm fights and the loss to moralas as well as two humiliating knock out losses really hurt manny in my book.

by sonofapsycho on May 11, 2009 5:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think I’m going to vote. I just don’t know between Pac and Galaxy.

by lcollins1 on May 11, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

y'all that are Galaxy supporters (or other non-Manny picks)

Please (re-)educate us in this thread. Seriously. The other conversation is lost in drunken two weeks ago-ness. Manny wins this poll simply because it drives lots of people and all the folks voting (well, most) are far more familiar with him than anyone else. But I dig hearing the other thoughts.

by Scott Christ on May 12, 2009 2:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Well I voted for Pac

Well I voted for Pac, and I don’t want to start up that conversation again, which was probably a misunderstanding. But as little as two years ago if you asked me who the greatest Asian boxer was, I probably would have said Khaosai Galaxy.

For me it was his style as much as anything else. I loved the diabolical way he would work his craft. He seemed like he could gauge how badly his opponent was hurt a second or two before they did themselves, and when he caught the scent he’d march them straight into a corner like a wounded animal and put them away. I just love great finishers, and Galaxy was one of the best. It is hard for me to imagine many little men who could have stood up to his firepower.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 12, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going for Pac

Based on him destroying HoF’ers and destroying a potential HoFer at his best weight 6 weight classes up from where he began. Pac is 30 and only getting better. Were he to defeat all comers from 147, (Mosley, Cotto, PW, Mayweather) he would be in my top 3-5 all time and there would only be 1 challenge left to conquer and that would be MW… I’ll let the speculation stop there because I’ve never imagined having a guy challenge for #1 all time PfP…

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 12, 2009 6:52 AM EDT reply actions  

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