Does Boxing Need The Hayemaker ?
by pacman79 on May 13, 2009 4:36 AM EDT
47 comments
David 'the hayemaker' Haye cleaned up at the cruiser weight division.
He has since moved up to heavweight and has made alot of noise about his intentions to clean up this division too.He is contracted to fight both Wlad and Vitali over his next 3 fights.
David has recieved alot of mixed opinions on his t-shirt antics.Some people think he went overboard.
Have people forgotten the things Ali has said to his opponents? I'm sure a certain Joe Fraizer doesn't find the comments as 'amusing' as most.How about Tyson telling Lewis that he would 'eat Lewis kids'.
Its all just marketing and imo Haye has done a stellar job.He has got everybody talking about the heavies again.It will be held at Veltins Arena, Gelsenkirchen, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany in front of a packed arena.
Its by far the biggest heavyweight fight since the days of Tyson/Lewis and the REAL Holyfield.
The average punter doesn't/or hasn't known the champions name of boxing's marquis division,the heavyweight's in years.This has brought boxing's popularity down as a main stream sport.
David Haye has the opportunity to take 3 of the 4 major belts over his next 3 fights giving the people a clear champion.
He brings name recognition.He is a ko artist.He brings massive power,speed,aggression and great technical skills to the division.He is brash,charismatic and outspoken,looks to please the ladies and only wants the biggest fights.A breath of fresh air in todays climate where even the top superstars are over-protected to a degree.Promoters protecting the '0' and going after the 'money' fights.The best don't always fight the best anymore.
David Haye has brought excitement back to the heavweights and has every punter talking about it.He has instilled a new interest in boxings marquis division from the average punter to boxing fanatics.
Traditionally when the heavweight's are doing well,boxing as a whole does well.
Does boxing need David 'the hayemaker' Haye ?
I think it does and more people in the sport like him.People that are willing to take risks,only want to fight the best.It ain't all about the 'o'.
People like Haye can transcend the sport and put it right back in its place as a mainstream combat sport.Just like it was in the golden years of Ali/Frazier.The 'fabulous 4' of the 80's and more recent era of Lewis/Tyson and Holyfield.
What do you guy's think?
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I think David Haye is damned great for the division and if he cracks Wladimir Klitschko and takes his belts, people are going to take notice in due time. Haye has flaws as a fighter; a lot of those help make him exciting. He’s not a machine, he’s not a great technical boxer. He’s a guy who goes out and fights. The more actual athletes like Haye that make their way into heavyweight boxing, the better. I’m not dissing anyone, either, but I think people get what I mean when I say I’d call Haye “an athlete” but I wouldn’t call either of the Klitschkos “athletes” in a scouting sort of way.
Let me put it this way: Klitschko-Haye is the first heavyweight fight in ages I’m actually looking forward to watching. Anything could happen.
by SC on May 13, 2009 5:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t wait to see it and I can also say its the only heavyweight fight that I have looked forward to in years.
by pacman79 on May 13, 2009 5:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course we need the Hayemaker
Haye has charisma, power and looks to become a major player. But he has to win!! Boxing needs more fighters wanting to test themselves against the best-just like in the old days as the old timers keep telling us.
Klitschko-Haye will probably be worth the Hype. No way is this is going the distance. I cant wait.
Keep looking for Madeleine McCann. She is out there.
by dinkman on May 13, 2009 7:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Simply put
No. Boxing doesn’t need a guy with a huge mouth and a just as weak a chin.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 13, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Replace “chin” with “will” or “guts” and you’re talking about Mike Tyson.
by SC on May 13, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but Tyson didn’t have a mouth at the height of his popularity. He did his talking in the ring.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 13, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're a little off comparing Tyson's power
with what Haye brings as well. Haye can punch but he’s not Tyson in his prime as a puncher.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 16, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A more than fair observation....
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 16, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if Boxing needs Haye specifically. I think that Boxing needs more big fights, and this will probably be the biggest fight the heavyweight division has seen in years in terms of interest. I also like the idea of looking for fights outside of your “weight class” and generally trying to break up some of the belt cartels that have formed.
Of course, if Haye gets sparked by Wlad the effect on the sport might be the opposite. I mean, will Haye then still be entitled to fight Vitali, or does that only kick in if he wins? If its the former that would seem like rewarding a mouth instead of business in the ring. And even thoug David can hit, when I look at the size of his hands, wrists and neck, I do have my doubts whether he really counts as a true heavyweight here in 2009.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 13, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
results
I have posted this article on a good few different sites this morning.
the overwhelming opinion across all the sites is that boxing does need Haye.
According to comments the majority of people see Haye beating Wlad but getting sparked by Vitali
by pacman79 on May 13, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with that
I’m rooting for Haye, but I don’t think he’ll win.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 13, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think this “Vitali is better than Wladimir!” thing has gotten way out of hand. Vitali took like four rounds for his body to thaw out against Gomez. Haye would’ve been all the F over him had he been in there.
by SC on May 13, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a matter of Vitali being better
It’s a matter of Wladimir having a crappy chin and Vitali having a solid chin. We all know Haye’s chin isn’t good enough to hold up for 12 rounds against either one of them, and there’s a chance he can spark Wlad and little chance he could knock out Vitali. On the other hand, he probably has a slightly better chance of going the distance against Vitali, simply because Vitali’s immobile, and if he fights an extremely disciplined fight (which I’ve never seen him do), he could dance circles around Vitali and outlast him for a decision. But more likely than not, Haye is just too sloppy with his defense to not get knocked out by either one, unless he can knock out his opponent first.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 13, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Wlad is probably much better defensively at this point just because he can move so much better. I’m not knocking Vitali; if anything, I think they’re sort of 1A and 1B at this point.
by SC on May 13, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what you mean by 1A and 1B;
But your earlier comment regarding the comparison between the two brothers is bang on.
I think had it been Haye instead of Gomez in there with Vitali, he would have knocked him out. It’s ok saying Vitali has a solid chin, but if Haye dances rings around him and lands flush (which Gomez never even tried to do) then a stiff-backed Vitali would have gone down. I also don’t see how Vitali would be able to get to his feet when he could barely move, he looked like he was in traction for the majority of the fight with Gomez.
Right now I think Haye wins against Vitali, but the solid jab and better foot movement (I said ‘better’, as in comparing to Vitali, not ‘good’) of Wladimir, coupled wih his reluctance to trade rather than sit in the middle of the ring with his hands up, probably means Haye won’t be able to land the money shot.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 14, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say he would have gone down
He’s been hit with some pretty powerful punches in his career, and the only time he’s looked hurt was when he blew his shoulder against Byrd.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 14, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen how rigid he was?
I know from your posts you watch a lot of fights, but have you seen that one? A solid punch that night would have resulted in Vitali’s spine snapping, judging from the way he was moving.
Seriously though, if a fighter is too stiff, then it is easier for them to be knocked down, you also seem to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals, so this is alos obvious to you. Vitali looked brittle and inflexible, and I maintain that Haye would have knocked him down. At no point did I say he would hurt him. I also firmly believe that his mobility problems would have prevented him from getting up.
I think Haye could fight him for a week and not hurt him, but to score a KO it isn’t necessary to actually hurt the guy, it’s to stop him from beating the count. A stiff breeze looked like it could stop Vitali beating the count that day against Gomez, it’s just a shame all the posturing about how he intended to hurt Vitali and knock him around the ring was all unfounded diatribe.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 14, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
If he gets him to bust a joint or something, then great, but that doesn’t happen too frequently, and to knock a guy down, you either need to (a) get him off balance, (b) hurt him or © make him dizzy, and I’ve never seen Vitali in any of those predicaments.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 16, 2009 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering how rigid, static and inflexible he was;
I don’t consider the ‘knocking him off balance’ thing to be unreasonable, or even unlikely.
I ask again, have you seen the fight? I honestly think Vitali would have gone over from the first solid shot that landed in the first 4 or 5 rounds….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 16, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I was here for the RBR
He did look very stiff, and he might have taken a beating in spurts, but I still don’t think he would have gone down. Quit, maybe, but not get knocked down.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 27, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well... You maintain incorrectly then
Haye wouldn’t have KD’d Vit that night and the reason Vit looked so bad is that Gomez came in to stink the joint out and win. He would have looked better against someone who came to trade.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 16, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Notice how I refrain from stating my opinions as fact?
And how I never say someone else is ‘wrong’?
Your post is a little presumptuous, don’t you think? I don’t see how you can state I am ‘incorrect’, when I am voicing my opinion regarding a hypothetical situation, but I’ll erron the side of caution here and choose to believe that you didn’t mean to have a go, maybe you were typing in a hurry or something.
Anyway, you’re wrong. LOL
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 16, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'll maintain that Vit looked so bad
because he was waiting for Gomez to do something. While Gomez content to feint and pull down on Vit’s arms. When he finally realized Gomez wasn’t goign to do ANYTHING he pounded him out.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 16, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn’t Gomez’s inactivity that made Vitali look stiff as a board every time he tried to throw a punch or move to one side or the other for the first few rounds.
by SC on May 17, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
I’ve been waiting for you to say something. At last, I don’t look like a lone dissenting voice against the fucking greatness of Vitali Klitschko.
I read back your posts on this thread, and you have also said Haye would have been all over him.
How would you have seen the fight going, had Haye been there rather than “Juan Fat Fucker” Gomez?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 17, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vitali’s chin is rock solid so I don’t know if Haye stops him, but I do think he would’ve swarmed pretty hard and really early. Klitschko’s punches just had no “torque” on them, even when he eventually loosened up some. He was thudding on Gomez, which is enough when you have the sort of raw physical power that Vitali has. If he had survived Haye’s early stuff, maybe he knocks him out later if they mix it up. Or maybe Haye just moves a lot. I think Haye — chinniness and all — is a tough match for either Klitschko just because he can move. They’ve both been fighting guys that just stood there like bumps on logs.
by SC on May 17, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair comments.
Now are you gonna reply to my wall post on facebook, or am I going to have to find another boxing authority to settle a bet? :)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 17, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur with this comment
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 27, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boxing has pacquiao
and thats all we need. haye is nothing but a big mouth and he’s gonna get KO’d
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 13, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boxing needs interest and competition at the highest level
Haye vs the klitschkos provides that in a way the heavyweight division hasn’t in years. The more people seek to fight the best, the better off the sport is, and the fact that haye is outspoken and willing to be controversial facilitates media coverage and public awareness that will promote the sport.
What boxing really needs from this is an entertaining, close fight
by thirdslip on May 13, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re right about the “best fighting the best” thing. And historically there is good precedent for the best guys moving up from cruiserweight and light heavyweight moving up in this way. But this doesn’t feel like a Holyfield type of situation to me. Probably the best example I can think of is Kid Matthews, who was an outrageous cutie and a gifted Lt. Heavyweight who could have gone down to compete at middleweight or up to face the top dogs at heavyweight. I believe he was running a seven year unbeated streak when he leapt up to face Marciano, who himself wasn’t much bigger than the typical Lt. Heavy. Of course, Matthews got knocked out in brutal fashion. But Wlad Klitschko isn’t as vicious a puncher as Marciano was, and Haye can bang pretty good. It might turn out to be a pretty entertaining scrap.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 13, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haye is favourite for me, and we do need him
It isn’t that complicated for me. Yes, we need Haye and I was actually thinking myself how similar the situation was to Ali’s bad mouthing. Ali was very unpopular with much of the boxing public and press. Many wished his downfall and his loud mouth to be closed. I’ve seen a very similar reaction to Haye. People want to see him knocked out, have the arrogance smashed out of him. I can understand that, but I feel he is favourite to beat Wlad because he simply has a huge speed advantage. He is very heavy handed and will get his shots off quicker. I know that if Wlad lands a straight right, it’s game over for Haye but the JAB will not win this fight for Wlad, that is for sure. Haye moves his head well and circles his opponents, he will not be strolling into Wlad’s predictable jab.
by maxirap on May 13, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My problem with this is
that I don’t think he can do it for 12 rounds, and his chin is weak enough that he could get hurt by one of those predictable jabs, if he follows it up with a right hand. Haye gets hit a lot, even against mediocre opposition (granted, he didn’t get hit much against Macca, but the fight only lasted a round and a half). I somehow doubt that he’ll step up in competition and suddenly avoid getting hit. He does avoid a lot of shots with head and body movement, but he still gets hit square with his fair share.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 13, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haye's not Planning on a 12 Rounder
Haye plans on getting Wlad out of there early.
If the fight goes beyond 8 it means Haye couldn’t get past Wlads jab to land his bombs.Haye would then possibly get stopped late on.
by pacman79 on May 13, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haye will get stopped in 3
You are talking about him like he’s Holyroid come to save the division. The difference between Holyroid and Haye is that Holy can take a punch… He can take a whole lot of them. Wlad will floor Haye with a jab. Oh BTW. Wlad’s jab is better than anybody in the Cruiserweight division’s and he is a 255 lb behemoth throwing it. Haye goes out quickly
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 16, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also;
it is all well and good saying Haye moves his head well, and is fast as hell, but people are saying that based on his Cruiser days. He didn’t look as quick as usual against Monte, and his balance was all off. He was flat-footed, and had trouble timing the shot, when compared to the way we are used to seeing him at 200.
Don’t get me wrong,I would love to see Haye beat them both, but I think talk of Haye being so much quicker etc needs to be tempered just a little when you consider he’s aiming to come in around 230/235, which is more than 2 stone more than he was when he last fought a World Championship class opponent…..
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 14, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wlad's People Don't Believe He Will Beat Haye
If big Wlad’s people were any way confident in there man such a joke of a contract would not exist.
Haye has to rematch Wlad if he beats him which is fair enough.
What’s not fair is the fact he will then have to fight Vitali if he beats Wlad twice.
Even Wlad’s people think Haye will spark him.
Why else would the Vitali clause be in the contract.
Because like Wlad,his people have no confidence in Wlad’s chin.
by pacman79 on May 14, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's right
I don’t think I’m going to get into a car accident, but I still have auto insurance. Same idea.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 14, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea but I’m sure you only have 1 insurance policy.Not 2 just in case the 1st fails
by pacman79 on May 14, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You both make a good point.....
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 14, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or MAYBE
Its the fact that there is alot of money in a fight with Vit even after Wlad knocks him out and it will be an easy KO for Vitaly also.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 16, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say we need Haye but hell, we can certainly use him. This is the first heavyweight fight in a long time that I am actually looking forward to.
by Full Throttle on May 14, 2009 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
‘This is the first heavyweight fight in a long time that I am actually looking forward to.’
That’s what I was getting at.If he keeps winning,the interest grows and grows and ……………………..
by pacman79 on May 15, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i say put the guy in the ring with James “the lights never out in my fridge” Toney.
"King of NBA Live '09"
by #5mmafan on May 22, 2009 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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