Pacquiao knocks out Hatton in two
by SC on May 2, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
in Post-Fight Analysis
202 comments
Ricky Hatton was absolutely no match for Manny Pacquiao tonight, going down twice in the first round and then a final time in the second, knocked out nearly cold on a perfect left hand.
Pacquiao landed 57% of his punches (73/127) compared to 23% for Hatton (18/78) in the incredibly short fight.
We will have MUCH more tomorrow, but I'm going to make a statement right now: I am STUNNED by how good Manny Pacquiao is. Ricky Hatton is a tough, tough man. Pacquiao blew him up with no trouble whatsoever. He beat the hell out of Ricky Hatton in short order.
Manny Pacquiao is without any question the best figher on the planet. Floyd could knock out Marquez with one punch in July and Pacquiao is the #1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world.
I'm literally in awe. I don't even know what to say. This was competely amazing. Manny Pacquiao is unreal -- and he's an all-time great. He's won his fourth lineal championship and a title in six weight classes now.
Hatton had nothing for Pacquiao. Nothing. Ricky Hatton is a hell of a fighter and Manny Pacquiao made him look like a guy who didn't belong in there.
I don't know what else to say. Pacquiao just made his spot among the best ever.
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"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Destruction
We really, really need Floyd vs Manny.
-Brian
by bp on May 3, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lifestyle and ran out of talent
i think this is a case of Hattons weight balooning between fights cathing up with him and no idea how to adapt!
Pac man sparked him with the most perfect left ive ever seen!
by Big_al79 on May 3, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
He dominated the second best JWW in his last fight. His last 9 fights have been against titlists. It’s not that Hatton suddenly lost it. Pacquiao is that good.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
Hatton is a hell of a fighter. Pacquiao now is a force we’ve very rarely seen. he’s unreal.
by SC on May 3, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teddy Atlas
now saying that Pac benefits from the right match-ups…like a drained out DLH and the come-forward style of Hatton…when are we really going to appreciate this Pinoy Phenomenon?? Will pundits never stop casting doubt on this guy’s enormous talen? Can we not just appreciate what Pac brings to the sport? Breath-taking.
by arch on May 3, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now. And I loved Manny Pacquiao. This was the most stunning win of his career.
by SC on May 3, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teddy also picks the wrong winner 99% of the time
He’s great at calling things when he sees them, but after that it takes a while for the brain cells to find each other.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consistent with this, he picked Hatton to win tonight.
by Nick_ on May 3, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kiss of Death
Hatton should sue.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was funny,
how teddy was trying to explain why/how he picked hatton to win the fight, sorta a little kid trying to wiggle out of a broken cookie jar. and he is an analyst. but anyway, in any fight, i guess you have to give each fighter a shot, esp when you catch the favorite on an off-night (like tyson-douglas).
by arch on May 3, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton didn't balloon up this time. Checkmate
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on May 3, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he ballooned up but he was in decent shape 6 weeks out. And, he got KTFO irrelevant of his weight cut.
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely didn't have much to do with this fight
but probably will be an issue if he decides to fight again. That gets harder to come back from the older you get, especially right after you get sent to the hospital from one punch.
by Albertrayon on May 3, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THERE'S ONLY OOONE... MANNY PACQUIAO!
Holy crap that was amazing
by keyz on May 3, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Manny Pacquiao was regarded as the world’s best prior to this fight
He was under-rated
by thirdslip on May 3, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
He has a good argument for top 10 all-time at this point
And leaving him out of the top 30 all time is hating. Clearly better than Mayweather or Calzaghe on the ATG scale.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes you think how many fighters are actually fighting in the incorrect weight class…
Manny has looked ungodly good since moving up at 130, 135,140, and 147….
Marquez as well at 130 and 135.
Did they really need to boil down so many years to be in a certian weight class when they appear to be so much better and confortable in the higher weight classes.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maywho and Calzaghuh?
I’m already matching Pac up against Arguello, Pryor and Duran in my head. Manny is punishing them forthwith.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I just flashed a Pryor v. Pac fight in my head. Too much, man.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on May 3, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weight
i think his past lifestyle has defo caught up with him!
But saying that he gave himself no chance to win that fight by rushing in against the fastest fighter he has ever faced and as they say with speed comes power.
Pac Man is without a doubt a LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!
by Big_al79 on May 3, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
get off the weight. He was in decent shape 6 weeks out. It could be a factor late in the fight but he got crushed inside six minutes. I picked Hatton, but he never had a chance, no excuses, nothing, the best Hatton got destroyed tonight
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are no fig leafs big enough to cover this banana
Hatton looked hopelessly outmatched from the opening bell. He kept looking for that straight left and was force-fed those phenomenal right hooks instead. He had no answer fro them. He was completely defenseless to them.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
first time you get to say that huh? joke.
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ye gods,
What dastards would our host command?
Swept to the war, the lumber of the land.
The Pacman has landed. Tremble in his presence.
Keep firing Assholes!
Akiyama is the Japanese word for Sexify.
by Ubernoober on May 3, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love the quote from Homer.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 3, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna say this
If Ricky fights on there is no way he ever has Floyd in his corner again.
I think if he goes on he hires Freddie. I think maybe that’s more than a chance that wasn’t just a rumor.
by SC on May 3, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's probably a good idea
Floyd’s game plan (if that’s what Hatton was following) was pretty horrendous. Then again, Ricky might’ve had Eddie Futch, Cus’ Amato and General George Patton in his corner tonight and still gotten crushed.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton didn't seem to be following the gameplan
Based on what Floyd was mumbling in his corner
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Move your head mmummmblemummmble jab mummble”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I wonder if Floyd was trying to think up some poetry to tell Ricky in the corner and it took him too long to spit it out.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 3, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
God bless Ricky Hatton. Great fighter. Great guy. Got outclassed to such a degree I still don’t know what to say. Pacquiao is unreal.
by SC on May 3, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I heard they remade the Hatton song
There are only twoooooooo ricky hatton
twoooooooo ricky hatton
got his ass knocked out
now there really are two hatton in hattons wonderland
No seriously. MY GOD. PACMAN is the P4P in the Universe. Floyd-JMM they’re just battling for second spot now.
"Penelosa is not human." -Max Kellerman on Gerry Penelosa during the Juan Manuel Lopes-Gerry Penelosa bout.
by Sickle on May 3, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
funny to hear Pac basically apologize after the fight. something like ‘I hope everybody had a good time’. They’re both good guys.
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm almost convinced he's a serial killer
No one is that cheerful and that violent.
Pacquaio KO4 Batman
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Manny Pacqtrick Bateman
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 3, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was actually pretty worried when he was coming into the ring with a massive smile. i was screaming at him that it wouldn’t be that easy and to buck up. after the ko though, my friend who put money on hatton said, “i guess thats why he was smiling. it WAS going to be that easy”
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 10 is still very, very hard to crack...
but I think he makes top 30 easy.
by Areglado on May 3, 2009 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
top 10
Has SC put together an all-time top 10 list here?
by Fooch on May 3, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it isn’t blasphemy anymore to have him in the same class as Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Arguello.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that blasephemy?
Go Pacquiao!
by Aaron Novinger on May 3, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Duran is a demigod….
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, you're wrong
I loves ya (in an Irish gangster way), you’re a great commenter, but Manny Pacquiao has obliterated every great opponent he’s faced.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I thought his win against JMM was quite close.
by Strategos on May 3, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought JMM beat him the second fight, but it was SO close I don’t debate his official win.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I agree.I just didn’t think he obliterated every opponent he’s faced…but pretty much most of them :)
by Strategos on May 3, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, you're right
Take into account I’m STILL crazy stunned…and drunk. End of the day I ain’t no journalist, just a fan like y’all.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not in your class buddy…I can hardly type, you write pretty good articles. And I am not even drunk!
But what a punch hey? BOOM, sleepy time…
by Strategos on May 3, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda though Zocalo was saying it ISN’T blasphemy to mention him there.
Leonard, Pryor, Arguello and Doooo-raaan would surely have their hands full with Mr. Pacquiao. That is all dream fight material.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup Yup.. sorry I didn’t communicate that correctly perhaps.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hatton return?
On the one hand you can’t blame him for getting pounded by the #1 fighter in the world. On the other hand, that was a pretty devastating knockout. Does he take some time off and come back?
by Fooch on May 3, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He got manhandled. He at least has to assess what he feels and take some time off.
by SC on May 3, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is invited to Manny’s Party at the Mandalay Bay. He is going to be singing with his band via ESPN News.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was unbelievably brutal. I was just thinking Hatton had gotten himself through the second round, then lights out. Wanted him to make it a couple more just to see a longer fight. Pacquiao is amazing, Hatton is finished as a top fighter, and now I’m just praying Mayweather beats Marquez, and then we can settle this pound for pound king thing once and for all. Can you imagine how good Mayweather/Pacquiao woud be?
by jjstraka on May 3, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will Floyd put his perfect record on the line? Granted, he’s returning against Marquez, but while great, Marquez is still human. Pacquiao is not.
by lhasafi on May 3, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome destruction
i said in my prediction that speed kills and in mannys case he has the speed and destructive power (which amazingly is getting greater as he climbs weight classes).
i expected something like what happened…only it to happen in about the 9th and 10th round. Im a big big manny fan and i was pretty damn stunned he hurt him so bad so fast. the entire bar was shocked as well and all started screaming “MANNY MANNY MANNY.” never seen anything like it before in about 4 years i’ve been going there.
im thinking manny beats floyd now too which i didn’t think he would be able to do.
im thinking they are going to do it at a catch weight of about 145.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm sorry if this is baiting
but i pretty much called it. hatton is overrated and had zero chance in this fight. i should’ve gone with my gut and predicted a 3rd round KO with my buddies, but i gave hatton the benefit of the doubt. i did not expect hatton to be out cold though dear lord
felt sorry for hatton though. he’s a cool dude outside of the ring, but i just don’t like him inside of it at all
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Ricky
Still. Love him. Great guy, hell of a fighter. Pacquiao is on such a different level — it’s two hours later and I’m STILL in awe. To paraphrase Larry Merchant: “Manny Pacquiao…I LOVE YOU!”
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when he was laying on his side with a completely empty face i was still ecstatic (massive pacquiao fan i am), but you know thats pretty fucked up KO. hatton is done i think. he can’t do it at 147 and his one claim to immortality (undefeated at 140) is no more.
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah man, did you see that punch? I’ve re-played it 10 times, could almost feel it in my face..outch!!
by Strategos on May 3, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt he retires
Bare minimum, he’ll have a farewell fight in Manchester. But I don’t think there’s much left for him to do at 140. Bradley or Witter would be okay, but neither one is a big draw.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching the fight, you just got the feeling you were seeing something special
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the result certainly has the internet abuzz
Both ESB and Boxingscene have crashed because of traffic.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not surprising
Globally huge fight. Servers make sites! (Styles make fights.)
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That reminds me
I think I have a few name-bets to collect at EastSideBoxing.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's your SN over there anyway?
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised that there is a 13 page thread on realgm talking about manny…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His speed was absolutely unreal
I remember my roommate saying last night “Yeah, well, he only seemed fast against DLH because they fought at a higher weight. I think he’s met his match against Hatton”
Not quite. I’ve seen the fight three times now, and still can’t believe it. So freakin’ fast.
by NittanyCub on May 3, 2009 1:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brillliant gameplan too
Hatton really had no answer for that right hook. It was superb to watch, bringing it just wide enough to be out of Ricky’s field of vision. It was the perfect plan, perfectly executed. Hatton literally didn’t know what hit him.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On ESPN
Roach backs off of his prior statements, says Manny would fight Mayweather, Mosley or Cotto.
Arum flat out calls out Mayweather.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
allowed to post replay streams?
cause i have a link where its showing over and over
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please don't
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Hail Manny and Freddy!
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cool, you're on
Matt, you have a few years and some fighters live on me — what do you think of Pac’s ATG status? Am I off here? I’m not assigning a specific range, but he’s up there IMO.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 20 for sure based on what we know
“Top 10” may be a little heat of the moment. Top 20 seems totally arguable. But if PBF actually fights him now—and Manny wins—I think there is a strong argument for top 10 all time PFP.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like everyone else, I’m wondering if PBF will actually fight Manny after this, or just do the Marquez fight for money and then duck Paq, claiming he only fought Marquez because of IRS problems.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t go top 10 right now either. But a win over PBF added to what he’s done? Can’t measure it yet, but gotta go top 10. He’s unlike anything I’ve seen in so many ways.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might be the greatest fighter out of Asia in the history of Boxing
Either Manny or Khaosai Galaxy.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s Manny. I will say that without question. Might be wrong in someone’s opinion.
by SC on May 3, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've followed both
of their careers pretty closely, and I would have to agree with SC here.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess could argue Galaxy’s long reign of dominance, but I won’t. Manny’s competition has been so much thicker.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Galaxy ever fought
someone as good as the Erik Morales who beat Pacquiao. Pac probably has fought 6 or 7 better fighters than Galaxy’s best win.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
galaxy was awesome
but manny has done more overall. multipal weights, etc.
galaxy again was just friggin awesome. shame not many know of him.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The argument was Fighting Harada vs Pacman
But I think that argument ceased when Pac beat Oscar.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's argument?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The arguments I had seen
For a while after Pac’s second win over Marquez was whether he was the greatest Asian fighter of all time. Guys who know a lot more about boxing history than I do pretty much all said the debate was between Fighting Harada and Manny Pacquiao, and maybe you can throw Pancho Villa in there if you’re looking head to head (but Villa’s career was cut short by death).
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
And none of those guys mentioned Galaxy? they might not know as much as they think they do.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some did, but he was usually dismissed pretty quickly
Harada had two wins over an all-time top 20 P4P fighter. Galaxy never faced anyone of consequence really, and he never left Thailand. He basically had Joe Calzaghe’s career pre-Lacy.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For shame, my friend
Harada was good, but only amassed a 30% KO ratio. Galaxy KO’d nearly every man he fought. If you think he was knocking over tomato cans, I would encourage you to actually watch some of his fights before we continue this conversation (if we ever do.)
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how KO rate has anything to do with how good someone is
We must just have a different way of measuring fighters.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And remember...
Just because you don’t recognize the opponent’s name, doesn’t mean he wasn’t any good. You have to buy the tapes and watch them. Only the hardest of the hardcore when I was growing up even knew who Khaosai Galaxy was… we didn’t even have the internet back then, and VHS/Beta was our high tech connection to the International Boxing scene. If you actually watched some of his fights and weren’t picking your jaw off the floor, well… I don’t know what to say to you then.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He fought 4 titlists in his career
And none of them had particularly long reigns or went on to do good things at other weights. I’m not saying his opponents were scrubs, but a lot of the reason he had such a high KO rate and won like 49 fights in a row was because he wasn’t consistently fighting good competition (and some of his competition literally was cabdrivers).
Head to head discussion, I guess you can put him high, but part of it is because he wasn’t fighting top competition, it’s easier for him to look better on film. I mean, look how Cotto looked against Alfonso Gomez versus Shane Mosley. If he fought 40 Alfonso Gomezes in a row, he’d go 40-0 and look like the greatest fighter in the history of mankind. Galaxy spent most of his career fighting Gomezes.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Brickhaus, I keep forgetting that you know way, way, way more about boxing than I do. I’ll try to keep that in mind next time I dare contradict you and your expert friends.
After all, I assume you’ve watched a lot of his fights… right?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't
I’m not claiming to be the authority here, just expressing my opinion. I can’t even claim to do a H2H analysis for all-time, since I’ve never even seen video of Villa and barely any of Harada. But his record looks weak to me.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahh yes, the requisite weekly Brick v. Jrok back and forth. I always like to see this(no shit), because it makes me feel ok about when I get too ‘engaged’ in a conversation
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But do you dispute that he didn't CONSISTENTLY fight top comp?
I mean, during the middle of his title reign, he fought guys who were 0-2, 11-0-2 (and then lost the rest of the fights in his career), 13-1 (finished career 30-15), 9-1-2 (ended career 11-7-2), 12-1, 9-2-1 (fought him twice, and ended career 12-7-1), 14-1 and 13-0 (ended career 22-5). It’s a lot easier to look good against green fighters with inflated records who are later proven to not be good by consistently losing to any decent fighter they face.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brick, teach me Crim Law. There’s too much bullshit between CL and MPC homicide and murder.
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went into corporate law, in part to get away from crim
I remember there was a ridiculous hypo on the bar exam though. Like a father shows his kids how to play Russian Roulette (but with a gun that wasn’t loaded), then one of the kids plays russian roulette, but with a .22 and kills himself, and the other one plays a separate game, but flinches, accidentally fires the bullet and hits someone across the street.
What state are you in anyway? I imagine that how it’s taught differs pretty significantly from state to state.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas. If anyone looks at your property funny, shoot to kill their whole family.
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the castle doctrine rocks
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brick, records can be deceiving. Holmes fought a lot of greenies, and very few dispute his greatness. Again, watch this man fight and then lets talk again. Khaosai was one of the most extraordinary punchers I’ve ever seen in my life. His converted Muay Thai fighter was a sight to behold, as was his devastating southpaw straight left hand. It was a widowmaker of a punch, and it needs to be seen to be believed and appreciated.
Nuff said.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"...converted Muay Thai style"
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've watched some of his fights
Obviously not all of them. But I think a big part of our disagreement is that I’m just not a huge fan of the ‘theoretical head to head’ arguments. If theoretical head to head was that accurate, people would amass small fortunes off of betting on boxing, because then you could just run that theoretical head to head before any given fight.
A big part of the reason people don’t dispute Holmes’ greatness is because he beat Ali (albeit an old Ali), Berbeck, Snipes, Spinks, Witherspoon, Williams, etc., and a lot of them had already proven themselves to be good or later proved that they were good. Frankly, I don’t think anyone disputes Galaxy’s greatness either, but his record on paper is a lot weaker than Holmes’s.
Match Galaxy against Villa, Elorde, Harada, Pacquiao, or even guys like Penalosa and Tokuyama, and his level of competition on paper seems to pale in comparison. I’ll give that his wins over Orono, Contreras and Pical were good, solid wins, but outside of those three and about 4 other guys, nobody else he fought ever proved themselves to be any good.
Maybe if you put them all in the same era and in the same weight class, Galaxy comes out on top. But in terms of the record on paper, to me he’s at the very least behind Pacquiao (at least 5 wins over future hall of famers, and as many as 7), Harada (handed Eder Jofre his only two losses), Villa (beat a number of hall of famers) and Elorde (beat Sandy Saddler and basically fought everyone of consequence in his weight class at the time). These are all hall of famers we’re talking about here, so it’s not like I’m slighting Galaxy.
As for history in general, there’s a reason you’ll never see me writing about boxing history. I just don’t know enough about the old-timers to write about them intelligently. I’d probably get picked apart. But numbers is something I do, and in terms of who the fighters actually beat in real life and not in hypothetical matchups, I don’t think Galaxy is in the discussion.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And at this point I might as well write up a blog post
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DO IT
I’m gonna try to shake off the =-O and the scotch.
by SC on May 3, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The few, the hardcore, the BLH posters.
We’re all still up, motherfuckers.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is a funny ass line on your tag Matt
by lcollins1 on May 3, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, not tonight
But it’s an idea. Might write it tomorrow, post it during the week. Been slammed with work for the past week, today was the ‘day off’ I was giving myself.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good idea
I think a discussion about the criteria for all time P4P, where we all lay out our emphases, our way of approaching the question, could be really cool.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Galaxy is also a Hall of Famer
Watching “a few fights” won’t do it. Which ones did you watch? Who were the flyweights that he shold have fought but didn’t? Most importantnly, which ones do you think would’ve beaten him?
Like I said, only the hardest of the hardcore even knew who he was, so you can be forgiven for thinking the way you do. But letting your obsession with records call Galaxy “the Thai Joe Calzaghe” is just flat out ridiculous, and would get you laughed out of many conversations. The fact is, Galaxy ruined young fighters regularly, sort of the way that Marciano ruined young guys like Vingo. You would know this if you watched more of his fights. I only hope you’ll do it with an open mind, instead of wringing him for flaws so you can “one-up” me.
Maybe I should write a post too?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go for it
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seems to be going in circles
I’m not saying he was bad, I’m saying he wasn’t as great as the others.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look
You’ve spit out a bunch of numbers from boxrec, and acted generally dismissive about a guy you’ve seen fight a couple of times. But did you see Khaosai demolish Ernesto Ford? How about his destruction of The Filipino Cobra Ari Blanca? Were they “green” or B-fighters? I know Harada well, and he was a great fighter. I also might’ve thrown Flash Elorde into the conversation, or Hiroshi Kobayashi, or Luisito Espinosa. Masao Ohba was a phenomenalThai fylweight. I honestly don’t believe you’ve watched him fight enough. Maybe you didn’t intend to, but you sounded really snide up there…. “The argument is Harada-Pacquiao.” Okay, but that’s YOUR argument.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Masao Ohba was a phenomenal Japanese flyweight who’s career was cut tragically short.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i remember reading about galaxy in ring
or ko magazine when i was a kid and becoming amazed and intrigued at what was said about him. i had to go out and find tapes on him to see for myself.
i wasn’t disappointed to say the least.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there's a good argument for Galaxy over Harada
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course there is
There are good arguments for everything.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ring mag article
i read an article recently on ring mags website on how he would do against duran, leonard etc.
i can friggin find it now.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.ringtv.com/blog/617/how_would_pacquaio_fare_versus_five_alltime_greats/
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome thanks
this is a damn good read everyone.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they rewrote that story today
I’m not sure they’d have Pryor winning, considering he was a bit chinny.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pryor is a manaiac
id never ever, ever bet against pryor in any fight against anyone. he was just that damn good and crazy.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm not the intended answerer
But I think it’s a pretty easy call to stick him ahead of Leonard at this point. What Pac has done is the equivalent of having beaten Duran and Hearns, then moving up and beating Hagler, then moving up and beating Virgil Hill.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I’m looking for everyone here. I’m 27 and have only been “my own” boxing fan for 11 years. Like, I’ve gone back and watched stuff, but live is a whole different feel and I totally acknowledge that.
by SC on May 3, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ve only been a boxing fan since de la hoya-mosley II, and pacquiao is my #1 fighter of all time. completely biased pick obviously, and i don’t have any knowledge of any fighter pre-1980
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
top 10 all time?
is that the question?
if so, not yet. if he fights and beats floyd then we can make that statement.
its one of the most amazing achievements though, for a guy who started his career at what 118 or 122? to be kicking the snot out of guys at 147 and 140 is pretty damn amazing.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
started at strawweight
But probably got “serious” at 112. It’s crazy what he’s done. Pacquiao is unreal.
Never picking against him again — ever. If he fights a Klitschko, I’m picking Manny. Hold me to it.
by SC on May 3, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a 'natural' 126 pounder I think
112 was when he was a malnourished kid. But had he never had the desire to move up to get bigger fights, he could probably still strain to make 126 (obviously he couldn’t now, just because it’s impossible to take off that much muscle once you put it on).
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, totally agree
I consider him a featherweight “naturally” too — by which I mean, the weight he was lowest able to make at a “peak.”
by SC on May 3, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of straweights
id pick a prime ricardo lopez of pacman.
ricardo is a all time top 10 in my opinion.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Head to head, you can make the argument
But obviously his resume is lacking, simply because he fought in a relatively weak weight class. Never fighting Carbajal hurts him as well.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
carbajal
was cooked by the time ricardo was finally at 115. the fight still should have happened though. i think carb not beat gonzalez in the 3rd fight destroyed any chance at that fight.
it hurts him a bit, yea, but he would have destroyed carbajal in my opinion.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lopez easily could have moved up to 108 for one fight for years
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well of course
might have to ask don king or ricardo why it didn’t happen earlier.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
108*
wtf 115. my numbers are all off tonight. long ass day sorry.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I...wouldn't
Maybe AT 105. But overall? No. Fairly weak division, never fought Carbajal, etc.
Oh, Brick said my opinion. Thx Brick
by SC on May 3, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you should watch more of him
ricardo was just better than pacman overall. thats why i pick him head to head over him.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
watch more
hes better than pacman.
i’m also big on never, ever being beaten too. which is why i think fedor is truely the best ever in mma to go off topic.
pac was knocked cold and stopped by a body shot earier in his career.
ricardo lopez…never beaten. only blemish was a tech decision due to a cut in the first alverez fight.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being undefeated is overrated
Especially when the losses come while they were still learning their craft. More often than not, it’s more indicative that they didn’t face the toughest competition than that they were actually that good.
There are 10 titlists in boxing history who retired undefeated, and you’ve probably never heard of 5 of them. In addition, it’s pretty universally known that neither Calzaghe, Ottke or Mayweather faced the toughest challenges out there. Lopez and Marciano at least cleaned out their divisions.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bit overrated yea
i take into consideration just how great the fighter was and his longevity and competition, etc, which both pac and lopez i think qualify.
manny was well into his craft when he was knocked out with the body shots. he was wbc champ at the time.
his other ko was a damn good lucky punch for sure early in his career but still he was dropped and completely in queer land where lopez never, ever was.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to think that what he did at Flyweight
Was when he was still green, just he was that talented. He had no idea how to box yet though, and frankly he got kind of lucky against Sakasul.
Generally, I don’t count what happens when a fighter is green or shot as much as what happens in the middle, unless they happen to do something spectacular when they’re green or old, in which case they get some extra credit. Pac gets extra credit in my mind for winning the Flyweight championship at all, just like Casamayor gets extra credit for hanging tough with top lightweights even though he’s clearly just a shell of his former self.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea its blasphamy
putting calzaghe, ottke, sitbangprachan, wi kim and all those others who won alphabet titles in the same breath as lopez and marciano. but my other post explains my undefeated lip nus test.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Head to head I don't have an issue
I’m still of the opinion that in terms of pure ability and skill, prime for prime, Lopez is the best boxer I’ve seen in my lifetime.
Lopez
Jones
Mayweather
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keeping in mind that
the primes of Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Duran, etc are all before my time.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here
lopez is the best by far in my lifetime.
i’ve seen leonard, hearns and duran and hagler primes, (on tape mostly, i’m a former collector, too young to remember prime) and only hagler belongs with the lopez’s and pacmans imo.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're about the same here then
I mean I watched the big fights back in the day, but if you’ve been hardcore for 11 years, that’s longer than me. But I tend to base my rankings more on actual competition than hypothetical head to head, and I think that at this point Pacquiao has beaten better competition relative to his actual size.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'd beat leonard
to a pulp.
he’d outlast duran as well. his speed would drive duran out of his mind and would probably end up qutting like the no mas fight.
by sonofapsycho on May 3, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pacman
… is just vicious. That was devastating in every way.
by A.F. on May 3, 2009 1:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All time P4P arguments are so hard to make. Where do we start? With film evidence? What cut-off? How do we come to an agreement about relative competition by era? It’s fun, but such an imperfect science.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
anyone still give JMM a good chance in beating pacquiao at 140? obv we can’t make a choice until we see him lose against mayweather, but pacquiao looks like he’ll obliterate him now
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 2:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. JMM just matches up with Manny better than anyone ever has. He’s taken his licks and gotten up and flat-out out-boxed Manny for much of their two fights.
by SC on May 3, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People will, but I don't
Marquez is a lot older and a lot smaller than Manny. If he beats Mayweather by some miracle, I might change my mind.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paquiao’s career is even more impressive when you consider the relatively short span of boxing in the Philippines.
Among other triumphs, he is the hero of boxing’s internationalism. He has the potential now to become everyone’s hero. Even the Hatton fans (I hope they show a love for boxing beyond their man).
Though rightfully a god in his homecountry, he has no nationalistically identifiable boxing style. After Manny and Freddy (the boxing inverse of “Fanny and Freddie”—hah!), there can be little argument that the highest level of boxing is a cosmopolitan, transnational affair.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 2:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
err, "Fannie and Freddie"
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've been boxing there since at least the 1920's
Pancho Villa was a national hero when he beat Jimmy Wilde for the world flyweight title. Obviously it’s become much more popular lately.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 3, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s true. In my lifetime, thought, Paquiao seems to have defined a new era and put the Philippines on the boxing map as a country along the same order of the very best. He did have a proud history to build on, though.
It was before my time, but I’ve read about a lot of great old fights that took place in the Philippines. I was thinking more about the international synergy of Roach and Paq. Didn’t mean that as a slam on the history of boxing in the Philippines per se.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was poorly stated. Boxing obviously has been a presence in the Philippines for a long time. I was trying to emphasize how much Pac has done to identify his country with boxing and bring it to the limelight internationally.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philippine Boxing
I’m from the Philippines Matt, no offense taken if that’s what you’re worried about. And yes, understood what you meant.
The country has had some great fighters over the years such as Villa, Elorde, Villaflor, Navarette, Espinosa, and now Pacquiao, but I really wouldn’t say the country has produced elite fighters with the regularity of say Mexico and Puerto Rico, or the US of course. However, I’m hoping that starts to change.
Filipinos have had a long love affair with basketball, a sport I don’t expect us to ever excel at on a global scale due to our…um…average stature, but boxing of course is different, and right now, boxing is red hot. We’ve got Pacquiao, Donaire, Viloria, and Penalosa (though I pray he retires soon) on top and guys like Banal, Farenas, Concepcion, Z Gorres, Nietes, trying to make a name for themselves. But looking beyond the fighters, I really hope the Philippines invests more and more in really good boxing programs, facilities, coaches, etc… There’s obvious talent on the islands that can be cultivated from a grassroots level. I want to believe that Pacquiao is just the beginning. I know there may never be another Pacquiao from the Philippines, and that’s fine. I just hope to see the country become a serious force in the sport of boxing.
by Areglado on May 3, 2009 4:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crossposted from BE
I was watching this at Nevada Smith’s in NYC. There’s a huge population of British regulars there, but the crowd was surprisingly split. It was also incredibly quiet after the KO. Everybody was stunned, no matter who they were rooting for. I actually had to shepherd my English friend back to my apartment and show him the Mosley/Margarito fight to take his mind off the brutal beating.
Pacquiao is just fucking stunning. SC is dead right to call him an "all-time great." I just wonder who he can fight next. I know JMM would love another shot, but he’d have to beat Mayweatther somehow first. I’d love to see Pac/Mayweather, but I genuinely don’t think Floyd will take that fight. So who’s next for Pac? Does he have to move permanently to 147 now to get a fight?
by FRANKIE on May 3, 2009 4:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So you took your friend home and showed him another brutal beating to help him forget the first one. That’s boxing for you.
I don’t see why Marquez would lose his appeal as an opponent by losing to Floyd. The third with Pacquiao should be doable regardless of the outcome.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can admit when I’m wrong. I didn’t think Pacquiao had what it took to hurt Ricky, especially so early. Obviously he does. Awful, awful PPV as a whole.
Boxing is like jazz. The better it is, the less people appreciate it.
-George Foreman
by jsims2 on May 3, 2009 5:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No one but Freddie Roach predicted that
Shock and awe. That is what Manny Pacquiao inspired last night as he truly affirmed his status as the best. Freddie Roach is about the only person in the world who predicted such a brutal, quick annihilation of Hatton.
I always had severe doubts that Floyd Jr would step into the ring with Pacquiao, and now I am almost certain he won’t. It’s just too dangeous. But when Floyd Jr beats JMM, it will be the fight the whole world cries out for. Floyd has never been in a position where his status is compromised, but now Pac Man is the man to beat and if Floyd wants his P4P legacy, he has to take the fight.
Pacquiao deserves all the credit he will get. He is one of the finest world champions we will ever have. He fought his way out of poverty and now he fights for his people, fans and the sport of boxing. There were many who doubted his class before this fight, and even picked holes in his record, but he made a statement last night, effectively ending the career of Ricky Hatton unbelievable ease. It was a poor PPV as a whole, but surely it was worth it for that breathtaking spectacle.
by maxirap on May 3, 2009 7:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i did except for the stone cold KO, i pretty much knew it wouldn’t go past 3
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may be late
but I just read on boxingnews24 that Floyd has mentioned the possibility for another bout with DLH. I am disappointed to see he’s doing exactly what we thought he would, avoid the good, legitimate fights and go for the easy, money-making fights.
Now I’m not saying he will go ahead and do it (I don’t think DLH is even competitive right now), but even mentioning something like this is pathetic. Say what you want about Pacman and JMM, but they’ve faced quite a few great fighters, mostly in their primes (including facing each other).
Floyd is not doing much good to his legacy here is he? Oh well, it could just that I am still hyped from last night :(
by Strategos on May 3, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is more concerned about making money and keeping his zero. Nothing wrong with that, but it should be acknowledge that if he wants to brag about being the best, you need to face the best. Ever since he has moved up in weight in the junior welterweight and welterweight divisions, his opposition leaves alot to be desired.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DAMNNN
will please someone explain to me how david diaz got to the 9nth round with pacman?!?! oh my #!#!
by LowKeyGuy7 on May 3, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The simple answer is:
David Diaz is double-tough.
by Nick_ on May 3, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here was my prefight prediction
Manny…. UD
Manny is just a better fighter. He is an all time great fighter… Hatton is just a great fighter
I underrated Manny by saying he is just a better fighter.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on May 3, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I even care about a Pacquiao – Mayweather matchup. Okay that’s sort of a lie, but i’d be much more excited to see Pacquiao-Cotto here in 2009.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you here
Stylistically, I think it would be a much better fight.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 4, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I even care about a Pacquiao – Mayweather matchup.
Why? Don’t like the style match-up? Sick of Floyd’s BS?
i’d be much more excited to see Pacquiao-Cotto here in 2009.
That’s good, since you’re more likely to get that fight.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, I said it was sort of a lie
In the cold light of day, one thing I’ve been thinking about is whether or not Pacquiao-Mayweather would be a good fight, regardless of who wins. It would certainly be big and important, but its possible it could also stink. That ball would be in Floyd’s court, mostly. There is no way on Earth that Pacquiao-Cotto or Pacquiao-Mosley could stink.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 3, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pacquiao-Mayweather would be fine; Manny’s so fast that Floyd can’t dodge all that stuff, and God knows Manny will bring the fight to him. But Manny-Cotto or Manny-Shane could be just nasty.
by SC on May 3, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for Pacquiao-Cotto, if it happens, I’ll say this: Cotto sure as hell better get a good, professional trainer for that fight. No more Evangelista, no more Joe Whoever the Fuck Santiago.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 3, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Santiago isn’t the worst choice to come in mid-camp given that he’s been around and knows the guy and how he trains, but I don’t think having your nutritionist as your trainer is a great idea.
by SC on May 3, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Maybe Cotto will hire Floyd Sr after seeing how well Ricky did agai… Oh wait a minute, maybe not. But yes, he needs a good trainer
by Full Throttle on May 3, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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