Freddie Roach talks Cotto, Mosley, and Khan-Hatton
by SC on May 20, 2009 3:53 AM EDT
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In a recent interview with Freddie Roach at Broadcast Boxing, the superstar trainer has revealed some of his thoughts on Manny Pacquiao taking on Miguel Cotto or Shane Mosley, and his thoughts on a potential clash between Amir Khan and Ricky Hatton.
Of Cotto and Mosley, Roach is adamant that Manny won't fight either of them at welterweight. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure why in the case of Cotto, who is barely bigger than Pacquiao at all. The two have the same reach (67") and Cotto is but a half-inch taller than Pacquiao (5'7" to 5'6 1/2"). This idea that Cotto is a bigger man than Manny just isn't really true. The 5'9" Mosley, who sports a 74" reach, would be a major task for Pacquiao, but Cotto beat Mosley in November 2007.
There just isn't a real physical mismatch in a potential Pacquiao-Cotto fight. Pacquiao has huge legs for a boxer, which helps him carry the weight well, and frankly speaking, he's probably peaking around the divisions he's fought in recently (lightweight to welterweight). He's not really a flyweight; he's a guy who fought at flyweight. That argument is really old hat. "Well he fought at 112" -- it simply doesn't matter anymore. I'm now more amazed that he was a flyweight champion than I am that he is the junior welterweight champion. He's gotten better as he's moved up.
Roach knows there's absolutely no way that Mosley could make 142 pounds, and Shane has even said as much. It's also doubtful that Cotto could do it and be healthy given the fact that he's looked much sturdier at 147 than he did draining so hard to make 140.
Roach also talks about a potential clash between his newest "fix-'er-up" project with great natural skills, Amir Khan, and fellow Englishman Ricky Hatton. Roach obviously knows Hatton inside and out from film study already, and I think a lot of people would agree that Khan -- who goes up in weight to 140 on June 27 against Andriy Kotelnik in anything but an easy fight -- physically would be too much for Hatton. Khan was a huge lightweight at 5'10" and he'll be big at 140, too. He'd be big at 147. Given his speed, power, and potential chance to hold range so well, he might really tear Hatton up. The "Hitman" would be hard pressed to get inside on the glass-chinned Khan, though if he does all bets are off.
I like any of these fights, and I like the two discussed Pacquiao fights being straight up welterweight bouts. I genuinely don't believe Miguel Cotto poses any serious risk to Pacquiao besides the fact that he's very good and would surely have a fine shot at beating him. What I'm saying is it's not one of those, "Oh man, that guy could get hurt" ideas. It really just makes sense.
Hatton-Khan would do huge business in the U.K., but I agree with Roach's assessment that it could be an Oscar de la Hoya-Julio Cesar Chavez situation, a young guy beating up the old hero. Roach doesn't go so far into it, but it also would mean that no matter what he did after, I don't think Khan beating up an "old" Ricky Hatton would sit well with British fans, ever, the same as Oscar twice wailing on Chavez just never quite sat well for a lot of Mexican fans.
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If Amir Khan has any desire whatsoever to become loved by british boxing fans, then beating ricky hatton is the last thing he should do. The oscar/chavez analogy is a good one. A victory would likely be seen as cynical and opportunistic, taking advantage of a shot hatton to scoop some undeserved glory.
by thirdslip on May 20, 2009 5:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Like he did with Barrera, you mean?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. But beating up on what would now be referred to as “damaged goods” Hatton, would be a PR disaster. The Brit fans took to Amir straight away, until he started beating up Tin Cans and proclaiming himself to be incredible – despite the warning signs (Limond, Gomez).
To impress British fans again Khan needs to:
1) Learn humility.
2) Win a belt against a good opponent in a war.
I personally don’t think he needs to prove his heart – he’s always shot back up/tried to. But if he took and gave a battering to someone and was humble after it – his stock would shoot through the roof.
We Brits like our fighters Honest as Hard as nails and Humble – skill is secondary (this is why Bruno is and will always be more loved than Lewis – rightly or wrongly.)
by bazzlad on May 20, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree completely
to be honest, i think amir khan’s career over the last couple of years has been one long PR disaster. The guy seems really nice, and i think he actually is humble, and he certainly hasn’t abandoned his roots like some stars do. He invested a fortune of his own money in a bolton boxing facility, and regularly helps with charity events, he’s hardworking and genuine, but he’s been dealt some terrible cards by his handlers and the media.
I think that over time his image will improve, but if he takes a hatton fight, then he would need to tread a very careful path
by thirdslip on May 20, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Khan can do Hatton..
It would be like Bugner over Cooper. The Public never really forgive him for that.
Marching on Together.
by dinkman on May 20, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"if he takes a hatton fight, then he would need to tread a very careful path"
He certainly does, because Ricky will knock him senseless. I can’t honestly believe that anyone gives Khan a chance over Hatton.
I kind of feel like Kyle Broflowski in the South Park episode about 9/11, where he keeps tilting his head to the side and going, “Really?”, evey time I hear someone say Khan can beat Hatton.
Look, Pacquiao beat Hatton. That is a fact. But it is also a fact that Amir Khan is NOT Manny Pacquiao.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He certainly does, because Ricky will knock him senseless. I can’t honestly believe that anyone gives Khan a chance over Hatton.
Why not? He’s going to be much better off with Freddie Roach and his natural skills now are better than Hatton’s ever were. If he can control distance and land some good shots he could get Ricky in trouble early. I also think there’s a perfectly great chance that Hatton drums him with one left hook and that’s that.
Look, Pacquiao beat Hatton. That is a fact. But it is also a fact that Amir Khan is NOT Manny Pacquiao.
Well, yeah, but he’s also bigger and stronger than Pacquiao.
by SC on May 20, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bigger yes
Stronger I would take issue with that. Also a guy thats made a career of wiping out fighters with 0 wins and 4 or 5 losses touched his chin and he went to sleep.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 21, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you think 5’10" Khan who hits pretty well and has great speed isn’t stronger than Pacquiao I don’t know what to tell you.
by SC on May 22, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I guess you don't know what to tell me...
Because he may have power but he doesn’t have the power to starch Ricky Hatton in 2 rounds and i’ll put money on that.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 24, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pac needs to
flght floyd early next year before he pulls a Lenox Lewis and retires to avoid him. Right now that fight would make crazy money boxing has not seen in a long time.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. Pulls a Lennox Lewis? Who exactly was Lewis ducking?
2. Who cares about the money? I don’t want Pac to fight Floyd so Bob Arum and Money Mayweather have happier retirements, I want to see the fight because it would be, in all likelihood, the best boxing spectacle for years!!
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis retired rather than fight Klitschko again. In the first fight Lenox was getting doored but the fight was stopped due to a bs cut. People were demanding a rematch and it was supposed to happen then Lenox retired. He had to put his belts up as vacant, but was one of a few guys to retire HW champ.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Balls.
I’m tired of reading and hearing bullshit about Lennox and that fight in particular.
Lennox came out of that fight looking like had just got out of the shower.
Vitali, on the other hand, needed 167 stitches to put his face back together.
You tell me who won the fight?
The cards are irrelevant, any scoring is irrelevant. That stuff only matters if the two fighters can’t sort a winner out between them in 12 rounds. Lennox certainly gave us a winner in the fight.
Yes, he started slowly, and Klitschko got the best of it in the first 4 rounds, but Lennox was slowly but surely making dents in Vitali, and was taking control of the fight.
Have a look at the fight again (the fight is plastered all over youtube) if you need reminding of the state of Vitali’s face after the fight, and then come back and tell me Lewis either a) lost the fight, b) was losing the fight, c) was not going to win the fight.
I’d love to see your basis for any one of those three arguments.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Wikipedia:
Lewis entered the ring at a career high 256 1/2 pounds.9 Lewis was dominated in the early rounds, being wobbled in round two. However, Lewis gave a better showing in the fifth and sixth rounds. Before the start of round seven, with Klitschko ahead on all three ringside scorecards, the doctor advised that the fight should be stopped due to a severe cut above Klitschko’s left eye.
Interviewed about the fight by HBO doctor explained his decision: “When he raised his head up, his upper eyelid covered his field of vision,” doctor Paul Wallace said. “At that point I had no other option but to stop the fight. If he had to move his head to see me, there was no way he could defend his way against a punch.”[citation needed]
[edit] Hanging up the gloves
Because Klitschko had fought so well against Lewis, boxing fans soon began calling for a rematch. The WBC agreed, and kept the Ukrainian as its No. 1 contender. Lewis decided to pursue other interests, including sports management and music promotion. Lewis said he would not return to the ring. At his retirement, Lewis’ record was 41 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw, with 32 wins by knockout. Though it was rumoured in an article published by the Daily Mail on the February 24 that he would return to fight Klitschko once again, Lewis quickly shot down those rumours on his personal website. He announced once again, on March 4, 2007 (after the Edison Miranda vs. Allen Green fight), that he was not coming out of retirement[citation needed].
Along with Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano he is one of three world heavyweight champions to have retired with no unavenged defeats.
Now if anything was wrong on there, his management would have reworded it by now.
Lewis was fat and slow in that fight. He was getting dominated and only the Dr thought the fight should have been stopped. The only person who seemed like they couldnt go on was fat Lewis.
Its a shame to see someone go out like that after such a crappy fight. Lost a ton of respect for the guy who has looked great at times.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The capacity crowd in the staples center thought it was the wrong call. So did everyone watching at home. Even the SI writer.
If its a title fight, let the fighters decide it. If someone out classes you, avenge it.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if you boil boxing down to its absolute core....
The object of the sport is to either;
a) outscore the other fighter over the specified amount of rounds, and get a win by decision, or;
b) physically damage the other man to the point where, for one reason or another, he cannot fight any more.
Since Lewis did one of those things, and Vitali did not, how can you possibly argue this point?
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to point b)
Vitali was still able to fight and wanted to continue, if you look at the photos most of the damage was under the eye.
In many of the epic fights one fighter has fought through some serious damage and still won. I understand stopping a fight on the under card or in a meaningless fight, but this was for the HW title. You let the fighters decide it as they have worked their whole lives for the opportunity to be there. The Dr should only stop the fight if one man is in danger. Vitali looked fresh and was exicuting his game plan all night.
Cuts happen. They let Roy Jones go the distance with a just as bad cut. They happen from head butts, not enough vassaline on the forehead, calcium deposits, or good shots. I dont think this cut was the last one but either way this is boxing, and blood is part of the sport.
Lewis won by decision, but lost respect and crediability which he never earned back. He was far from the better fighter that night.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Kyle Broflowski voice) "REALLY?"
Lewis won by TKO pal, not by decision.
Also, if you watched the fight, as I did again today for shits and giggles, you would see that Vitali was in control until round 4, and Lewis was taking the fight over. He did struggle to find a rhythm, he wasn’t in the best shape of his career, but it was a shot from Lewis that opened the cut, not an accidental clas of heads, or a segull flying into Vitali’s eye, or anything else contrived. Lewis punched him in the face, and the result was a nasty cut, which meant Vitali’s field of vision was reduced by 50% according to the doctor.
If you think anyone fighting Lennox Lewis with 50% field of vision is not ‘in danger’, especially since he had lost the last 2 rounds and Lewis was starting to dictate the fight, then I hope to God you don’t ever referee a boxing match.
It wasn’t like Vitali only had to last a round, either. He had to go 6 more rounds, and Lewis was a bloody clever heavyweight, he would have kept on moving to his right, throwing shots that Vitali couldn’t see, until Vitali went down.
As far as my point b) was concerned, the doctor has a moral, legal and professional responsibility to make the right decision as to whether a boxer can, or cannot, continue with the fight. This isn’t an unregulated street brawl, where two men scrap until one can’t actually fight any more as a result of being too smashed up, too unconscious or too dead to continue. As far as being unable to continue due to physical conditions are concerned, the doctor is the authority on what constitutes ‘physically unable’ with regard to boxing matches.
One more thing, how you can say most of the damage was under the eye is beyond me. I am starting to believe you have not watched the fight. There was a bloody great gash all the way across Vitali’s left top eyelid. The cutman was trying to hold it closed, and stem the bleeding with a cotton bud, and the cut was about 4 times the size of the cotton. I don’t think anyone else I have ever conversed with about the fight, or anything I’ve ever read on the fight, has included any kind of reference to the damage being under the eye. You’re basically making it up as you go along now.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 20, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with you on this. Basically, Vitali had his chance early and once he didn’t close show, Lewis was starting to kick his ass down the stretch before it got stopped.
I think it was similar to the Rachman v. Lewis fights. Lewis took Vitali lightly like he did Rachman, and Vitali almost made him pay. But, he didn’t get it done and cut or no, I think Lewis KOs Vitali in the next couple rounds if that fight continues.
by lcollins1 on May 21, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure Lennox stops him that soon, but I think Lennox (out of shape and aging) still beats him. Just a better fighter and he was taking firm control. That cut wasn’t getting any better either.
by SC on May 21, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the cut, I think he wins in the next couple of rounds for sure.
Without the cut, probably more like a TKO-11 or maybe even points win.
I agree that Lewis took him lightly, which was what cost him vs Rahman and McCall. But once he had realised this wasn’t going to be an absolute formality, he dug down and in a way forced himself to do the job right, rather than taking it for granted. Kind of the mental equivalent of looking in the mirror and demanding more from yourself, giving yourself a talking to and point-blank refusing to let the fight get away.
For the record, I was disappointed not to see a rematch, as Lennox is my favourite ever heavy. I would have accepted a complete non-event fight against Audinary Harrison if it meant seeing Lennox in the ring again. But it has to be said that Lewis was over the hill, and it would seem a tad hypocritical for me to be crying out for him to carry on, whilst expressing the desire for other shot fighters to retire.
The fact remains, an over-the-hill Lewis fought a peak Vitali, bust his face open and won the fight. Kind of puts all the current heavies, who can’t beat an over-the-hill Vitali, in their place.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 21, 2009 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About the eye
The blood was coming from under the eye. The cut man did a great job stopping the bleeding on his brow so I dont see how it could have interfered with his vision. Again, Roy Jones gets throttled with a just as bad cut, hes a warrior. Klitschko’s corner stops the bleeding in a fight he is winning, and hes a brat.
Its the Drs responsibility to determine if the fighter is in danger. If he is showing signs of head trauma… etc. Its up to the ref to decide if a fighter cannot defend himself.
Klitschko later claimed the cut was caused by a headbutt
I dont know how much truth there is to this, but how ever it started, lewis did open it up.
Im done talking about this fight. The point I was trying to make is that this fight deserved a rematch. No one is going to argue that. Lewis said he would do the rematch:
A rematch in the autumn is now inevitable and it is a fight which already had fight fans licking their lips.
At the post-fight press conference Lewis said he would happily give Klitschko a rematch if the money was right.
He said: “I’m happy to give him a rematch because I will bust up the other side of his face as well.” – BBC News
Then backed out. After a sad sorry preformance against a fighter he should have dominated, why not silence all your critics and make some serious money doing it?
That was my point about Floyd… the Pac fight needs to happen before he retires again because casual boxing fans will resent him if left wondering what could have been.
by ryanwk628 on May 21, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a massive difference between the locations of the two cuts.
There is also a massive difference between Roy Jones getting slapped by Joe Calzaghe while being able to still see out of the cut eye (which he could, you quite deliberately put up the worst possible shot of the cut in order to exaggerate a point), and ANY MAN IN THE WORLD standing there getting punched by LENNOX JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST LEWIS, while ONE OF HIS EYELIDS IS HANGING OFF!!
It’s not a difficult concept to get really, in the opinion of the doctor and the referee, Jones was not in physical danger, as was proved. Vitali, with 50% vision, was deemed to be in danger of serious/permanent injury, and as such was stopped.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 21, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which he could, you quite deliberately put up the worst possible shot of the cut in order to exaggerate a point
You mean there were “good” pictures of that cut?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 21, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hitler would be widely regarded as the 'worst' of history's Anti-semitic persecutors....
That doesn’t mean there is such a thing as a ‘good’ Anti-semitic persecutor….
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
by Chaos100 on May 21, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a glancing shot
and the stitching on the side of glove sliced opened the cut. One of the luckiest wins in modern boxing history
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 21, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay… I’ll weigh in on this argument (which will eventually become one of those “old guy” boxing arguments we’ll have when we all have two teeth left in our heads)
First of all, a lot of people forget that Vitali was a replacement for Kirk Johnson… which was a snoozer of a fight that nobody wanted to see anyway. Vitali was an exciting replacement, since unlike Kirk we all knew Vitali was a very live dog who had been calling Lennox out. We knew that Vitali was VERY awkward - huge, strong, twitchy, jerky ,stand-up fighter with a good jab. But he was still the underdog.
I saw the fight over at a friend’s apartment in Stuy-Town. The crowd was mixed, but the majority were West Indian like him… I saw EVERY Lewis fight at his place because the atmosphere was very good, and I was also a fan of Lewis.
Let me say this… My friends were horrified with the first four rounds of Lewis-Klitschko. These were all mostly hardcore boxing guys like us, and they were stunned into silence by how easily Vitali was creaming Lewis for the first four rounds. I mean this is a normally very loud crowd of 25-30 heads that sounded like a funeral parlor by the middle of round three. It very much looked like Vitali was going to beat Lennox into a pile of quivering pudding.
The fifth and sixth rounds were VERY different. Lewis was definitely coming on with whatever he had left. That still gives me the chills, seeing him return from the dead like that, with those huge uppercuts that rocked Vitali like I’d never before or since seen that robot-jawed mofo be rocked. He was all over the ring in the sixth… well, and so was Lewis to be fair… but is was NOT a “crappy fight”… it was an awesome fight. Lewis made up for those early rounds. He evened things out physically, and captured the momentum. It doesn’t mean he would have “definitely won”, but Lewis ABSOLUTELY had the momentum at stoppage time.
The cut? Well, nobody was happy to see it end on a cut… come on…. when was the last time you saw a fight end on a cut and feel “satisfied?” No, it was one of those unfortunate technicalities that cuts short a classic. Could Vitali have fought on? Yes, absolutely. Would he have gone on to win? Possibly. But he would have had to do some serious titanic business in the next two rounds… that cut wasn’t going to get better, and you bet your ass that Lennox was going to target it. I mean, Marciano summoned the mustard to put Charles on press row with his nose hanging halfway off his face, but that was considered pretty darn special.
Anyway, it got stopped. And yeah, Lenny played mighty coy/cute regarding the rematch, but it probably didn’t make much sense for him in the end. He had a great career, and could get out with no un-avenged losses. He didn’t want to face the prospect of maybe doing a trilogy with someone like Vitali. Instead, he moved to pleasure us with his accounts of Las Vegas’ thriving church & juice bar scene, his cunning boxing analogies and creative use of post-participles.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on May 21, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
and im not so much worried about the money as much as where it would be coming from, hype, buzz and crazy ppv buys… all great for the sport.
by ryanwk628 on May 20, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all the flack Mayweather receives for ducking people and retiring too early, you’d think Manny would get the same scrutiny when his trainer comes out and says he flat out won’t fight two of the best 5 fighters in the world. This is strange being that he has the reputation of taking on all comers. Cotto/Pacquiao is the fight that makes sense for late October, assuming Cotto wins his next fight.
by jjstraka on May 20, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At first
I thought that Cotto was wrong for Pac and would blow him out the water but then i went and looked at the size diffrence and now I think the opposite. Cotto fights bigger than he is with slow steps hands up round the temple looking to let loose some hooks but he isn’t all that big.
I would guess that Manny could out box him using speed and power to get a decision. Cotto would look to bully him around but Pac’s fast feet and great staminer could have Cotto chasing all night without getting close for a big damaging shot or flurry. The only thing that i can think of not to take it at welter is that they would stand a better chance if he comes in the ring drained.
Plus if they fight Cotto at welter Shane would want it to and that is a very dengerous fight for Manny. Pac should take the fight, look to put another belt on the mantle and further build his record as a all time great. Being the first 7 weight class champion must be alluring for him.
by sigidy on May 21, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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