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Let the Games Begin - the Setup for Mayweather-Pacquiao Negotiations

When it comes to negotiations, Mayweather can pretend he's The Giant, and that Pacquiao is Mayweather.  Can Pacquiao come from behind for a moral victory?

When it comes to negotiations, Mayweather can pretend he's The Giant, and that Pacquiao is Mayweather. Can Pacquiao come from behind for a moral victory?

As Scott reported earlier today, Pacquiao has come out and said he has no interest in facing Miguel Cotto or Shane Mosley, and he wants the Mayweather-Marquez winner.  Elsewhere, Floyd Mayweather has said that "it will be a cold day in hell" before he lets Manny Pacquiao get a 50/50 split of their purse. 

While Mayweather is preparing for a fight with Juan Manuel Marquez, everyone and their mother knows that this fight is actually part of the buildup of what could be a megafight between Mayweather and Pacquiao.  Unfortunately, Mayweather seems to be the only one behaving like it.

Negotiating a contract is all about getting leverage, and being able to effectively exercise that leverage on your opponent.  It's much like a boxing match in itself - you play to your strengths, and try to expose your opponent's weaknesses.  The party that is able to more effectively carry out this strategy will, more often than not, get the better of the negotiations.

Mayweather is already setting up for the negotiations that will inevitably take place.  While it takes bravado to come straight out and say you'll win the negotiations before they even start, it shows us where Mayweather's mind is, and it lets us know that he's not going to lay down just to get the fight made.  In addition, in putting out his 'hit list', he's shown that there are a number of opponents he's willing to face.  None of them are as big of a draw as Pacquiao, but it's also true that none of them will ask for a 50/50 split, and most of them aren't as big of a threat to take away Mayweather's shiny zero as Pacquiao is.

Pacquiao, on the other hand, hasn't done much to set up the negotiations.  First, Bob Arum made a huge blunder in announcing a record PPV gate for Pacquiao-Hatton, only to see the final numbers come in lower than for Mayweather-Hatton and back off from publishing numbers at all.  Now, Pacquiao has backed himself into a corner by saying he doesn't want to face Cotto or Mosley, who would be the second and third biggest money options after a Mayweather fight.  Thus, as I see it, here's the current negotiating landscape:

  • Mayweather can point to the fact that he drew better in pay-per-view against Hatton and De La Hoya than Pacquiao did.  A couple months from now, he'll likely be able to say the same about Juan Manuel Marquez.  While there are intervening factors (like a recession and Mayweather's overall lack of activity), this plays heavily into Mayweather's favor.
  • If there is no fight against Pacquiao, he can still take on Shane Mosley or try to take on Miguel Cotto.  He would make much more against Pacquiao than either of those guys, but if he beats either one of them, then Mayweather further improves his negotiating position, and he still probably gets $15 - 20 million richer in the process.
  • If there's no fight against Mayweather, Pacquiao will probably be stuck with facing Edwin Valero.  While it's a fight the diehards want to see, it's a MUCH smaller fight than either Mosley or Cotto.
  • If he does face Mosley or Cotto, he's much more likely to lose to them than Mayweather is, considering size and styles.  So even if he backs off his statement that he doesn't want them, there's a risk that he kills the fight completely if he loses to either of them.
  • Bob Arum does hold one wild card, in that he promotes Miguel Cotto.  As such, he might be able to prevent a Mayweather-Cotto fight or force a Pacquiao-Cotto fight, although he isn't going to want to do too much to piss off his second biggest cash cow. 

Already, Top Rank and Manny Pacquiao have made a pair of devastating tactical blunders in their future negotiations with Mayweather - backing out of the Pacquiao-Hatton pay per view buy numbers, and foreclosing on Pacquiao's other most profitable options.  Mayweather, on the other hand, has played his hand perfectly so far, saying there are a number of other big money names he'd like to face. 

While a 50/50 split might be the most equitable outcome, I have to believe Floyd on this one - the fight won't happen if Mayweather doesn't get the bigger share of the purse, at least nominally.  Pacquiao hasn't been one to swallow his pride in the past, several times threatining to back out of fights to get more of the purse.  Either way, for Pacquiao to get this big payday, he'll need to swallow something, hopefully his tongue.  If he's not willing to take less than half, he can bide his time fighting the Edwin Valeros of the world for smaller paydays. 

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Good analysis, SC. Just a couple of quibbles:

1. All of this is contingent on Mayweather beating JMM. I know that the current fever is that it’ll be a cold day in h-e-hockysticks bfore that happens, but I’m not at all sold that this win is a lock, even disregarding Floyd’s inactivity.

2. Some of this is contingent on the sales performance of Mayweather-Marquez. What if it falls well short of the mark? What if it does less than Pacquiao-Hatton (with Hatton being “damaged goods” at the time. Will Mayweather’s “second fiddle” demons come back to haunt him?

3. Even if Floyd wins and the sales performance beats expectations, would Floyd really make more doing a 55-45 split with anyone else in the sport right now than he would doing 50-50 with Manny?

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looking at those numbers, I think a 55-45 split in favor of Mayweather is fair, maybe 52-48. But clearly Mayweather is a slightly bigger draw.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on May 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that’s sort of my point… Is he? After all, Manny did his number with Hatton in a global recession against a “post-O” Hatton. My point is, let’s see what the sales are for Mayweather-Marquez… a fight where he may well actually be the bigger or at least equal draw on the card in terms of U.S. PPV numbers. If they are spectacular and beat Pacquaio-Hatton, then yes Floyd will have a rock solid case for 52-48 or even 55-45.

And that still doesn’t mean that a 55-45 split of Mayweather-Cotto or Mayweather-Mosley would be a bigger profit for Floyd than a 50-50 Mayweather-Pacquiao, which I think would be a tremendous seller.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mayweather makes less taking those fights than fighting Pac at 50/50

But the point I was trying to make is that Pac has a lot more to lose by not taking it at 55/45 than Mayweather does by not taking it at 50/50. If he won’t fight Cotto or Mosley, then I don’t know if there’s a fight available where Manny could make $10 million dollars, much less $20 or $30 million.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 27, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was me, BTW

- Yes, it’s contingent on Mayweather beating Marquez. I don’t give Marquez much of a chance, and maybe I’m wrong for that, but he seems to be a bad style matchup for Marquez, plus Marquez looked a little lethargic even at 135. If Marquez wins, then I think it’s very easy to make Pacquiao-Marquez III, and it would certainly happen immediately.

- Some certainly is contingent on the sales of Marquez-Mayweather, and the results could surprise me, but I’d be shocked if it draws less than Pacquiao-Marquez II did. Mayweather is just much more popular than Pacquiao was when he faced Marquez (Pac’s popularity has grown considerably since then, so it’s not the best comparison in the world, but Mayweather’s people will certainly make the case). Also, Marquez is probably more popular now than he was when he faced Pacquiao the second time. Manny-Marquez II did about 410k buys, if I remember correctly. I’d be surprised if Mayweather-Marquez doesn’t exceed that by at least 100k, possibly by 200 or 300k.

- Realistically, a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight should draw no less than about $50 million ($50M in PPV, assuming 1M buys at $50 a pop, with HBO taking a big chunk of that, $20M live gate, and $10M casino hosting fee), and could draw nearly double that. A 5% swing one direction or the other is a lot of money. But I really think it’s a matter of pride more than anything. Pacquiao prides himself on being equal with just about anyone, since he’s P4P #1, and would refuse to take less than 50%. Mayweather prides himself on being the biggest draw in the world and making the most money, so he’d want more than 50%. I do think the fight could happen even if the split is around 52-48, but both fighters’ pride could get in the way.

Obviously, Arum will make the arguments below – that he drew this much during a recession, Pacquiao is the current P4P #1, etc, but I don’t think they’re as strong as Floyd’s arguments, and the way that they’re carrying on at the moment kind of goes against some of that negotiating strategy.

No quibbles at all. This one’s all about the debate. They’re good points, and people bringing up more points in the comments might help shed more light on how this is actually going to play out.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 27, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously, Arum will make the arguments below – that he drew this much during a recession, Pacquiao is the current P4P #1, etc, but I don’t think they’re as strong as Floyd’s arguments, and the way that they’re carrying on at the moment kind of goes against some of that negotiating strategy.

Arum has played this about as badly as I’ve seen anyone play a hand of poker in my life. He has made some strictly awful judgment calls the last couple of years, but the whole “redacted number” bit was just completely pointless and ludicrous, like buying a new baseball bat for a mugger halfway through a vicious beating.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean "good analysis Brick"

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The dude in the picture should represent Pacman at the negotiations

" Man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated "
- Hemingway

by Hellsing on May 27, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brick

gets my vote for best use of a caption in a post at BLH. Good one.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on May 27, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As a casual boxing fan (try to be more than that)

I didn’t buy Manny vs Hatton because I figured it would be an ass whipping. Did I really end up hurting Manny in that decision?

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 27, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

his name is BIG SHOW not the GIANT, brick :|

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on May 27, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My Bad

I haven’t watched wrestling since about 1998. Back with the WCW, he had hair and was called the Giant. Last time I watched wrestling, it was live when someone gave me tickets, and Ric Flair had a heart attack while he was in the middle of giving a speech. See if that one dates me.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 27, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last time I watched Wrestling, I think Roddy Piper was teamed up with King Kong Bundy… andHacksaw Jim Duggan was fighting Jimmy Superfly Snooka… See if that one dates me., heheh.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Hacksaw Jim Duggan was great. He was basically a shoeless dude in overalls and a straw hat who walked around hitting people with a big piece of wood.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 27, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re mixing dudes. Hillbilly Jim was the overalls bumpkin. Hacksaw Jim Duggan was the guy with the 2×4.

by SC on May 27, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah, right

Still, they were both pretty awesome.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 28, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the guy I was mainly thinking of

Although I guess he had a felt hat, not a straw hat… I guess I was mixing a very volatile mountain man cocktail there. I also remember owning and played the following album.


(Not pictured: Dignity)

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 28, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great pics

Totally off thread topic, sorry. As a newer and slightly older person on SBnation, could I ask you how you get the pictures in your comments?

Thanks

by Fridge72 on May 29, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a tree

Click on the tree, and paste the url for the image in the popup box. Try not to use too big of a picture though, if you can help it.

Big pictures can be resized by putting width=“250” (or another number) in the xml tags.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 31, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hacksaw Jim Duggan was awesome

I used to see him out at concerts all the time when I was in college. Growing up in the Tampa area, you run into a lot of wrestlers. Hulk Hogan (probably still my alma mater’s most famous alumnus) at an all you can eat buffet was interesting. Eddie Guererro was with his family playing mini golf behind me once, and spent the entire time arguing with his agent on his cellphone.


Hacksaw approves of this blog post.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 28, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manny should take a 55-45 split in Mayweathers favour. He will still make more money that way than with Cotto. I dont think they want Mosley at all even if the money is better than with Cotto.

In the end i think he will argue to get 50-50 and we will hear about it being on again off again till he will go for maybe 53-47.

With Manny saying he isn’t interested with Cotto or Mosley i think was just to let Mayweather want to fight him next for the money. It could be more of a purpose thing to show him what they have or its a huge muck up

by sigidy on May 28, 2009 1:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Last time I heard, Mayweather-Hatton did 850k. Right after the Pacquiao-Hatton figures was released, the friggin number abruptly changed to 915K. Why? One point here to remember is that Floyd came back because he’s in desperate need of money. Pacquiao could hang up his gloves today if he chooses to. He doesn’t need that much money. His mind is on to something else nowadays besides boxing. This whole fracas is just a battle for the negotiators of both team. Mayweather may be a tough negotiator himself but if it all ends up with him not fighting Pacquiao because of all those crap inside his overblown head, then he will go down in history as The Man Who Ran Away From Pacquiao!

by yob on May 28, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point

I hadn’t noticed that the number changed from 850k in contemporaneous reports to 915k in 2009 (and a Google search says that that 915k number was never used until after the Pacquiao-Hatton fight). Still, 850k > 800k, but not by much.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 28, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had always heard 910K, I think from Rafael.

by SC on May 28, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought so too

But I checked ESPN, and his article from a week after the fight said 850k.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on May 28, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but things go up/down after that frequently.

by SC on May 28, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jiffyjay

Pacquiao’s camp elected to remain silent while waiting for the July 18 fight and its corresponding figures to unfold. Only then and there that serious negotiations can start to rock and roll. If Mayweather loses to Marquez, he gets not only 60 but the whole of the ROTTEN pie. If he wins, his bargaining chance will still depend on how easy or hard he beats Marquez. If he wins by KO, he gets 50-50. If it’s a UD, he gets 45 to Manny’s 55. If all he can come up is a split with Marquez, then he should content himself with a 40% share. Mayweather is just all show and no dough. He’s doing all those talks to raise his price, we all know that except for the very few whose sense of reality is the other way around.

by yob on May 28, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you're incorrect in your summation;

and I also don’t think that my “sense of reality is the other way around”.

When Floyd says he wants more than 50%, he means it. No doubt.

In my opinion, your idea that he will settle for 40% of any possible purse with Manny is, shall we say, misguided, regardless of the result with JMM. Ali could come out of retirement to fight Floyd and he still wouldn’t do it for less than 50%…

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on May 28, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Floyd isn’t getting less than 50%. Floyd could get decapitated in the fourth round and would still demand 50% (if the fight was still on — which it wouldn’t be). The day Floyd swallows anything less than 45% for a Pay Per View……. DUCK!!!! Pigs are flying.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on May 28, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mayweather’s not taking less than 50-50 for Pacquiao, nor should he.

by SC on May 28, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This could be a significant stumbling block, IMO

If everyone remembers the Pacquiao-Hatton fight almost didn’t come off because Pacquiao started whining about the split. Floyd fully believes that he’s the best fighter on the planet and he’s the one with the 0 in the loss column, so I take him at his word that he wants more than 50%. I think it’s a respect/pride thing to him. Pacquiao is also a pretty proud little guy who is the current P4P #1 and might take umbrage at having to take less than 50/50.

Boxing is like jazz. The better it is, the less people appreciate it.
-George Foreman

by jsims2 on May 29, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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