More Drama from the Chagaev-Valuev Fallout
by Brickhaus on May 30, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Ruslan Chagaev's promoter, Universum, has put out a press release regarding yesterday's incident and today's non-fight. They're ticked because they say that Chagaev is actually perfectly healthy, and that Finnish authorities refused the fight because of antigens present in Chagaev's blood from a previous sickness.
Universum also provided the WBA with evidence that Ruslan Chagaev’s blood values are unchanged for many years and are safe. They are invariably below the international standard from which the hepatitis disease is considered infectious. Ruslan Chagaev’s current blood values also correspond to those which he had in the first fight against Nikolai Valuev in April 2007. The fight at that time was promoted by Sauerland Event under the supervision of the Austrian Federation in Stuttgart and if there was any doubt about these blood values, it would have been mentioned then. Therefore, today, like the first time, there is no reason to call off the fight.
Against this backdrop, Universum says it will file a lawsuit against the WBA. And we all know how nothing makes you a mandatory faster than threatening a lawsuit. Oleg Maskaev threatens a lawsuit, and suddenly he's the mandatory for Vitali's belt. John Ruiz threatens a lawsuit, and the WBA makes him the mandatory of the winner for this fight. Frankly, I have no idea what Chagaev would sue over. Keep him as the mandatory? If the WBA does make this kind of decision, does he skip past the other two mandatories, John Ruiz and Kali Meehan?
I'm about ready to give up on this sanctioning body altogether. I don't care if they've been around the longest; a lot of their recent actions convey that they're less relevant than the IBO.
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None of this means anything at all to me. Those titles don’t exist to me anymore. They are completely meaningless, and not representative of anything related to boxing. Valuev is a special effect, not a fighter. Chagaev is the Halley’s Comet of prizefighting…. 25 fights in 13 years, most of them against stiffs.
You remember when you were a kid, there was that kid who made a funny joke once, and then he kept saying over and over, and it was less funny every time until finally you wanted to mash his brains out with a cinderblock? Well, the WBA is that kid. It isn’t even funny anymore.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I hate it when you're perfectly healthy and keep testing positive for hep.
That happens all the time. It’s like all these positive roids tests for guys who have never done roids and are totally confused by the outcome.
When will the madness end? This reliance on objective medical testing has to end!
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 30, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions
He does have a point
You can get false positives on an antibody or antigen test if you used to have something but don’t anymore. A test for actual viral load is more accurate. If he’s in complete remission, then it’s not nearly as big of a deal.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Titles that are more relevant to me include the NABA, the USBA, the EBU.
Tye Fields is scheduled to fight for something called the World Boxing Council Native American Heavyweight Championship. What is his totem pole? A stack of tomato cans? Anyway, that’s about the level of relevance this abortion of a prize fight held for me.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I wouldn't go that far.
For what it’s worth,I really rate Chagaev, and think if he could actually get fit and stay fit than he is possibly the ‘One’ at heavyweight right now. I know it is easy to point fingers at him and have a go, but when he is in the ring he is pretty damned good.
Valuev is a joke, but Chagaev, in my opinion, despite his poor record of injuries/illnesses, deserves a lot of respect as a fighter. I can only hope he does fight again, and proves me right. After all, he has never been beaten…..
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
I think either Klitschko whips his flat-footed ass. Which is not saying he’s not maybe the third-best heavyweight in the world.
by Scott Christ on May 31, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see why you'd say that.
There is no doubt that both rank above him now, because they’ve been there and done it. I just happen to think in a straight head-to-head he has the ability to beat either of them, if he can put a sustained run of fights together and rediscover some form first.
“It’s all there for him” might have been a better way of saying what I meant.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
If Vitali is stiff, maybe
But he doesn’t move his head enough to get inside on a Wladimir jab. Just my opinion.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Chagaev was on a tear back in 2006… although the best guy I think he beat was Virchis. I was interested in him back then, but now he is just another clown in the clown car. Maybe Chageav can regain some career momentum by dropping his belts and getting away from this WBA farce. Fight some of these young turks coming up, like Arreola, Chambers, Johnson… hell, pull an Apollo Creed and offer to fight that Tyson Fury dude…. “I’m giving you your shot, Stallion!”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I agree;
with all of this. Apart from the clown bit. I really like Chagaev. I wondered a while back whether it would be worth his trying to boil down to cruiser, as all sorts of mayhem and merry games would be had if he were a 200lb fighter. However this is unlikely to happen as it is rare that people who have fought at heavy (the marquee division) ever want to leave it (Herbie Hide and Roy Jones being obvious exceptions, but they were never really heavyweights….)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
and Chris Byrd obviously, but he has never been a fighter, IMO.
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
and Chris Byrd obviously, but he has never been a fighter, IMO.
Well, I know you’re joking, but I can’t imagine why you’d pick the Byrdman for this comment. Byrd actually had a lot of boxing ability, which he used to frustrate and torment much larger men (and, occasionally, audiences too). His fight with George was the product of very poor decision-making… that was one of the most misguided comeback ideas in history, and against a guy who had trouble getting fights made for a very good reason.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Oh
And the “White Tyson” nickname always pissed me off. WTF? Moronic, infantile Don King- sounding idea. It doesn’t even remotely fit, style for style. That’s like calling Larry Holmes “The Black Jerry Quarry.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
If there's money to be made at 200, people will move down
But the fact that Adamek can’t get any big money fights sort of proves that the money just isn’t there. Eventually there will come a time when the cruiserweight division is strong and has a lot of talent, and when that happens. you’ll start to see LHWs bulk up to take fights there and smaller HWs try to boil down to get a piece of the action. It probably won’t happen anytime soon, but every division has its heyday. Don’t forget, cruiserweight wasn’t even recognized as a real weight class as recently as 6 years ago.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
WBA
I thought the IBF was bad.
“Super Champions” " Champion in Recess" “Regular Champion” “Supa Duba fandabidosi Champions”.
A freak joke champ with retread faded names like Ruiz & Oleg in position for shots. Chagaev was fit to fight and getting messed around. Holyfield is in the mix also. The WBA say they will make a call in 7 days about this-do you really think they going to work somethng out credible? Neither do i. Its a mess.
Look out for Valuev-Ruiz 3 .Fuck off WBA the world will be a better place
"..so try and listen hard before you fall in the trap, of making war, over a baseball cap" - Faithless
Holyfield
I don’t like the fact he is still fighting either, but if he does dance with Nikolai again I can see why, y’know? He clearly won the first fight. Really clearly. In his mind that is a massive injustice, which probably needs to be righted. And as he won the last fight in the eyes of all but 3 people, who is more deserving of another shot? Sad, but true.
I am starting to think the 3 judges system is flawed fundamentally. I am trying to think of another system which would be competely fair and impartial, but I can’t think of one. Except maybe making the number of rounds infinite, or making the 12th round infinite, in effect ruling out the need for judges. Fight until one man can’t.
The major problem with this would be that skill would be undermined, as there is obviously a lot of skill in winning boxing matches over 12 rounds. Fighters like Malignaggi and Calzaghe who rely on winning points (boxing being a sport and all) would never achieve what they have under that system, and it would kind of remove the ‘sport’ element in a way, making it more of a ‘fight’ than a ‘boxing match’.
Other methods of scoring fights welcome!! :)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
"The major problem with this would be that skill would be undermined, as there is obviously a lot of skill in winning boxing matches over 12 rounds."
I mean that you’d have brutes like Urango winning a lot more fights simply due to his physical attributes, chin, etc, and the ‘war of attrition’ thing would over-emphasise the ‘hard bastard’ thing rather than allowing good boxers to win fights by being slick.
You could even end up with Toney fighting McCall and the fight lasting 3 weeks… :)
Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)
Four things that would help a lot
1) Pay judges more. The more they get paid, the less they’ll be subject to getting paid off, because they won’t want to risk the income.
2) Have local commissions pick the judges. Don’t let the promoters have a say anywhere. A lot of judges tend to score in favor of the fighter whose promoter is promoting the fight, because if they score that way, they’re more likely to get more work in the future. Having commissions decide, like they do in Nevada, helps prevent that.
3) Select the judges based on how well they judge. Don’t give work to judges to score obvious rounds the wrong way. Maybe have a rotating panel of 10 people provide oversight and review the judges. If a round is actually close, at least one or two of them should score it a different way. If everyone on the panel scores a round one way, and the judge scored it the other way, then chalk up that they scored the round incorrectly. If they score 3 to 5 rounds incorrectly in a year, then drop them from your judging rolls. If they score rounds wrong at all, then you don’t get as much work. This way the judges would be more careful, and it would be harder to get away with things.
4) One strike, you’re out. A single case of provable impropriety, and you’re banned from judging. A pattern of it without hard evidence, and you’re banned.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on May 31, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The idea of these panels has been pushed around forever. I always kind of liked the idea, but then again you might just push the ceiling of corruption up one level.
These judgeships are often handed out like royal fiefdoms… You scratched he right backs, rubbed the right elbows, kissed the right rings. There are certain guys who I am very suspicious of. Ron McNair and Frank Lombardi have played “tag-team” on a couple of very horrible decisions here in New York. Then enough time passes and everyone forgets or looks the other way.
There needs to be more scrutiny in general, including having judges explain their criteria for scoring fights, and having them score TV fights that they aren’t participants in. But chances are, no matter what there will always be a fair amount of corruption and incompetence involved in judging… it’s Boxing, after all.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
That fight stunk. Yeah Holyfield won, but he didn’t look any good at all. He would have gotten hurt by a legit heavyweight… or, you know, just someone who could get it together enough to throw a punch.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
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