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Revisiting Hatton-Pacquiao: What can Cotto do?

Manny Pacquiao's two-round destruction of Ricky Hatton in May remains an amazing thing to watch. Can Miguel Cotto do anything to stop Pacquiao's amazing run? (AP Photo)

Manny Pacquiao's two-round destruction of Ricky Hatton in May remains an amazing thing to watch. Can Miguel Cotto do anything to stop Pacquiao's amazing run? (AP Photo)

It's been nearly four months now since Manny Pacquiao ended what was then going to be the biggest fight of 2009 in less than six minutes of action. And no matter how many times I watch the video of the fight, I never cease to be amazed by how easy Manny made it look.

That night, the Filipino living legend not only outquicked and outboxed Manchester's favorite son, but he did so in a brutal fashion that left no questions whatsoever. Five months earlier, Pacquiao had stunned the boxing world by beating Oscar de la Hoya so thoroughly that "The Golden Boy" quit on his stool after eight rounds of action, so hopelessly out of the contest that there was no need to go on.

Oscar couldn't touch Pacquiao that night. Hatton never really got a chance to even try.

Oscar de la Hoya retired after what Manny Pacquiao did to him. It remains to be seen whether or not Ricky Hatton will fight again.

What we do know, though, is that both were fights that Pacquiao's trainer, Freddie Roach, quickly agreed to. In fact, the win over Oscar was barely in the books before talk of Pacquiao and Hatton on May 2, 2009 began. After some rough patches in the negotiation process, that fight came off, and now it's history.

Freddie took the Oscar fight when people said it was crazy because he saw that Oscar de la Hoya couldn't pull the trigger anymore, and I think he also knew from training Oscar that there was no way that de la Hoya was going to comfortably make 147 pounds.

Freddie took the fight with Hatton because he saw a vulnerable, limited fighter -- a very good fighter, good at what he does, yes, but so tailor made for Pacquiao that Roach knew Hatton had no chance to beat his guy.

But what about Miguel Cotto? Roach has backed off from the idea of fighting a pre-disgraced Antonio Margarito, because he plainly said, "Margarito is too big." He wanted Shane Mosley to boil down to 143 pounds. And he's made Cotto come down to 145.

Why is that?

Star-divide

It's because Pacquiao, great as he is, is not invincible. And Freddie knows it. You can easily say that Oscar and Hatton -- great challenges on paper -- were hand-picked by the mad scientist because he knew they'd garner huge attention, make a global superstar of Pacquiao, and make both he and his fighter a lot of money. Roach doesn't seem quite so confident now. The problem he's facing is simple: Manny's beaten two straight huge-name guys and done so in a manner that left the boxing world in awe.

And now, the fans will not accept anything less than the biggest and best challenges for Pacquiao. But Freddie is looking to give his guy the advantage. It's good business. Roach is very, very smart. I also mean to take nothing away from Manny Pacquiao. He'll be the favorite against Cotto because he's earned that right and then some.

But there's one thing Cotto can do to potentially turn the tide in a big way: Hit Manny Pacquiao. Hit him. There were brief moments in both of Pacquiao's dominant last two fights when he was hit by Oscar and Hatton and I thought it was very clear that he felt those shots coming from the two biggest men he'd ever faced. What Pacquiao did brilliantly was slow Oscar to flat-out immobility, and just blitz out Hatton with a beautiful right hook that eventually set up the jaw-crushing overhand left that ended the fight.

The question is still there: Can Pacquiao handle the power of a full-fledged welterweight? Cotto is not a big welterweight by any means. In fact, he's a small welterweight. He and Pacquiao are pretty much the exact same size. But he's been able to bang away at guys like Mosley, Margarito and Clottey, and while he stopped none of them and really never had any of them in grave danger, I don't think any of them will tell you it's an easy night getting hit by Cotto. And all three of those guys are much bigger than Manny.

The more a Manny win by wham-bam stoppage is predicted, the more I think we're going to see Pacquiao get into some real trouble against the supposedly "damaged" Miguel Cotto. And in turn, the more excited I get for this fight.

For those that maybe never did see it or just want to relive it, here are HBO's highlights from Hatton-Pacquiao -- and no, they don't cut much out:


2 recs  |  Comment 135 comments |

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Do I get the feeling you're kind of routing for Cotto, SC?

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 9:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m rooting for the Fight of the Year contender I think this matchup can and even should be, which would require Cotto to be just a bit more competitive than Oscar or Ricky were. I don’t think Pacquiao is untouchable, good as he is, and I really, really, really feel Cotto is being slighted in the lead-up.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too....

I am starting to get to the point where I kind of don’t want to see these fights tho, cos I don’t want to see a loser….

Obviously want Pacquiao to win, cos he is amazing, one of the all time greats, and could stop Godzilla, and all that….

But I obviously want Cotto to win, because he has never took the easy option, never ducked anyone, and is a real fighter’s fighter.

So, to sum up, I want them both to win. :)

I kind of feel the same with Pavlik/Williams… I’m a big fan of both, and don’t want to see either get beaten.

Different to wanting to see Klitschko vs Klitschko, cos I want to see them both get beaten… :)

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats why

The boxing gods provide us the chance of a legendary draw that makes us crave the return of 15 rd fights.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 25, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Freddie took the fight with Hatton because he saw a vulnerable, limited fighter — a very good fighter, good at what he does, yes, but so tailor made for Pacquiao that Roach knew Hatton had no chance to beat his guy.”

Try explaining that to the casual fan who gets caught up in the hype. Pacquiao’s team didn’t need to scout out Oscar De La Hoya, he freaking had Freddie Roach in his corner. He knew all of Oscar’s weaknesses. Mayweather exposed some of the limitations in Oscar’s game and it frustrated Roach. AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THE WEIGHT CUT!?!

Hatton. Come on Hatton!?! He always fought like a brawler.
Mayweather Sr. already said it best. He didn’t do anything he learned in the gym, he simply resorted to what he was used to doing. Then again many fighters find it difficult to establish new tricks when their old tactics were successful. Example: see Mike Tyson.

Like you said, you can’t take anything away from Manny Pacquiao because it is one thing to get really great instructions BUT it is totally a different thing to be able to execute them.

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by VeeisAnimated on Aug 25, 2009 9:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Hatton, Come on Hatton!?!" So...

When Mayweather took Hatton out in 10 rounds with the assistance of a ringpost… What does that say about Mayweather?

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 25, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Ricky shouldn’t run into ringposts.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mayweather’s fists bouncing off hattons head for 10 rounds helped assisted in the ko as well

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mayweather Jr. is a defensive technical boxer.

Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog

by VeeisAnimated on Aug 26, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great article

‘There were brief moments in both of Pacquiao’s dominant last two fights when he was hit by Oscar and Hatton and I thought it was very clear that he felt those shots coming from the two biggest men he’d ever faced’

I always thought that too, more with Oscar, he did visibly feel it… obviously it was only brief, and it might seem a bit like grasping at straws….but Cotto will be a lot stronger and able to maintain the pressure. And Cotto has punch resistance. I like him a lot here.

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Was I the only one who didn't think Hatton looked that bad in the Pacquiao fight?

I mean, not being on the same level as Manny doesn’t make you a bad fighter… I thought Hatton looked sharp, looked lively, was up on his toes, was aggressive….

Just because Pacquiao took him apart does not mean to me that Hatton is anything but the number #2 in the division. I’d still take him over Bradley, I’d still take him over Khan, I’d still take him over Campbell. Strangely enough, the one in the division I think would be a bad match for him would be Maidana, cos the guy hits like a mule.

I suggest that people should have anouther look at the Hatton/Pac-man fight, and see if there is another fighter in the division that you would pick to beat a Hatton that looked that sharp. He lost the fight not because he was bad, but because Manny was fucking brilliant, in my opinion.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t think Hatton performed very well. I thought he was spooked by the idea of trying to box with a southpaw who was light years faster than him. My feeling is that when he realized that Manny wasn’t only faster than Paulie Malignaggi but that he also hit like a mac truck, Hatton threw the entire gameplay out the window. He was probably completely freaked out that he got dropped twice in the first round.

To be fair, I didn’t really think Hatton had much of a chance of winning a single round from Manny, let alone winning the fight. But even I didn’t think Hatton would get kayoed inside two rounds… I don’t think anyone did except Roach, Moorer and Pacquiao.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hatton's been hit harder

by Collazo, Mayweather. He did probably underestimate how hard Pac would hit though

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a minute...

Are you saying that Mayweather or Collazo hit Hatton harder than that shot Manny gave him at the end of round two? Hatton was in low orbit around Neptune after he swallowed that hook. Hell Floyd massacred Ricky in the eight and ninth rounds, and he still needed a little help from the ringpost to kayo him.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean....

He’s been hit by bigger guys(at 147), and absorbed it over far longer with Mayweather and over the distance with Collazo. So I felt it wasn’t that he suddenly got hit really hard and threw his gameplan out of the window.
Sure, the knockout shot was perfect. I don’t know that I would say it was harder than Mayweather’s KO at 147. I know that some guys are extremely heavy handed and some less so, but am not sure the difference in this case was such that I would say that Pac hit harder

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Manny also dropped Hatton with two single punches in the first round. I mean, that wasn’t a matter of wear and tear… Hatton just couldn’t stand up to the firepower. To be fair though, I also think was somewhat the fact that Hatton appeared to have no clue how to neutralize the southpaw right hook.

I love ya brother, but I am having trouble with the idea that Mayweather’s pair of knockdowns (with assistance from the turnbuckle) were anywhere near as hard as the nukes that Manny was dropping. I mean, Ricky probably might’ve even beaten a count for the last one, if the ref was merciless enough to let him try. But when Manny socked him and they turned Hatton’s head to the camera, I really thought we were maybe looking at some kind of tragedy.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its true he just couldn’t adjust to that shot, and physically his reaction to being hit by Pac, especially the knockout and knockdowns, was that of someone who was being hit harder than ever before. (but that could just have been his punch resistance :)

No worries dude, I just felt that a guy at 147 would hit harder than one at 140. Mayweather’s not feather fisted, and Pac didn’t seem as exceptionally heavy handed in the Oscar and Diaz fights?!

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think against Hatton the most important thing for Pacquiao was not how much harder he hit than other Hatton opponents but simply how he did it.

To me those knockdowns were more to do with how well pac timed the hitman and also how dazzlingly accurate his punches were.

by Drunken cutman on Aug 25, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the only fighters Hatton faced that hit harder than Pacquiao

were Urango and Tszyu. Maybe. And part of the problem is that Hatton’s gameplan didn’t completely fly out the window. In both of those fights, he’d hit and smother, so they couldn’t land a clean punch back on him. Had he done the same to Pacquiao, which was always something Hatton’s done a lot of, he would have lasted longer than 2 rounds. But he had the idea in his head that he could box, so he tried to box. The problem is that he didn’t do the things when he was boxing that Floyd Sr. had trained him to do, like move his head.

If his game plan really flew out the window, he would have reverted to his John Ruiz light tactics that he’d displayed in most of his previous fights. I think he stuck to the plan, just with very poor execution, and he paid the price for it.

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by Brickhaus on Aug 25, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

It looked to me like he started wrestling less than a minute into round one. He put Manny in two headlocks, wrestled him against the ropes, held and hit, tried to throw him around, etc. It looked like Hatton classic to me. Round two, he did try to box a little, but Manny was basically getting off 3-1.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

Floyd hit him harder. Shot for shot, I say Pacquiao hits harder than Floyd.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so...

Pac at 140 hits harder than Floyd at 147? Are we saying that just because it took him longer to knock Hatton out, or wasn’t one of the general conclusions that Hatton’s punch resistance was ‘gone’/the yo-yo-ing with weight caught up with him etc when he went so early against Pac, spectacular as it was, rather than ‘Pac hit him harder than he’s ever been hit?’

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Floyd has two bad hands

He rarely sits on his shots. And when he did, he knocked Hatton out as well. But it’s not hard to see that the check hook was more of a timing shot that landed perfectly than a punch with concussive power.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 25, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahhh ok

I didn’t actually know that. I would’ve just assumed that the bigger guy hit harder

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ricky’d also been softened up quite a bit by then. He was hurt the round before. It didn’t take much to take him out in the 10th. Really, beautiful work by Flyod. And I hate Floyd.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The eighth

The eighth was very brutal, even hard to watch. He was lighting Ricky up like a Christmas tree, even worse than what he was doing to Gatti. I had that round a 10-8 with no knockdown.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just outclassed

you had to admire it, even if you were pulling for Ricky

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you may be the only one....

He was terrible. The old head down instead of trying to box Ricky, and walked on to punches. As good as Manny is, Ricky’s better than being stopped in 2. If he didn’t just charge in like a mad thing he would have lasted longer. Plus his punch resistance was very poor, given how long Oscar and David Diaz lasted, it was disappointing, overwhelming as Manny was.

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manny didn't hit Diaz or Oscar like he hit Hatton, though....

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It did seem harder

Maybe Oscar and Diaz weren’t walking on to the punches, or simply that he was stronger at 140 than at 135 or the 142 he weighed in at for Oscar, I guess.

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oscar’s chin has always been million times better than hatton’s though. i mean the man fought at 160 for god’s sake

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cotto can certainly damage and kayo Manny. I’m not sure why people even think this is an issue. Miguel is not a powerhouse, but he has more angles then a spiderweb, is freakishly adaptable and is himself hard to hit. Can Manny’s body really hold up under a sustained drumming from Miguel Cotto? If Cotto works this gameplan, Manny’s speed advantage can be flattened out in two or three rounds.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure he holds that much of a speed advantage over Cotto anyway....

Cotto is very under-rated generally, I think, but especially with regard to speed…..

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cotto is at least as fast as JMM, and equally as hard to hit. He is also a bigger puncher.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the body punching. Pac’s only been KO’d to the body.

by lcollins1 on Aug 25, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

please dont’ bring up that miserable fact. the man was clearly too big for those smaller weight classes so he was naturally KO’d by a body shot

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t even know if it’s even that so much as, frankly, it’s irrelevant now. It’s not like nobody has hit him to the body since then.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It may be relevant, it may be a factor. Cotto has a great left hook to the body, it may be the most important punch in this fight. I’m not going to rule it out until I see the fight. If Cotto can land that punch a few times early, I think he wins. While Pac may have been hit in the body since then, I do think Cotto’s by far the biggest puncher he will have faced.

I understand that’s all predicated on whether Cotto can land the punch. I get that. But to say Pac’s body endurance is, from the outset, before the fight happens is irrelevant to the outcome of this fight, I totally disagree.

by lcollins1 on Aug 25, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think it even a question of whether he can knock him out with it. It’s not like Cotto goes around knocking out boatloads of guys with the left hook downstairs. He softens and slows with it. I think it’s more a matter of if Cotto can use that punch (or the counter right hook to the body) to soften and slow down Pacquaio enough to take control of the action and eventually push Manny past the breaking point.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Legit Question

has cotto ever fought a southpaw and how well did he do?

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?

He fought Zab Judah. And he knocked him out.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude calm the hell down, i was legitimately asking. momentarily forgot about quintana and judah

also, he had to low blow judah just so he wouldn’t get his ass KO’d, so whatever.

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot Corley too...

There are a lot of obstacles to overcome in this fight, but I don’t think many people think that “southpaw curse” is one of them. Cotto has KO’ed every southpaw he’s faced, and he can convert smoothly between southpaw and orthodox during a fight as well as any fighter in the last twenty years.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean...

He also fought and KO’ed Quintana in 5 rounds. Really brutalized Carlos to the body in that one too.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Chop Chop...

Whom he also KO’ed…. I mean, I guess the question is, what southpaws hasn’t Cotto fought.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Michael Moorer.....

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 25, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Paul Williams

But that’s a very big club, I guess…

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was knocked out with a right hand too.

youtube it, its there

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry psycho

With my comment right below yours, makes it look I’m disagreeing with you. I’m actually responding to icollins. Pacquiao’s first KO was a right to the head, as I state in my post.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no worries buddy

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No he hasn’t. People always cite the Torrecampo fight as KO via bodyshot. Look closely, it was a short right to the jaw while Manny was in a crouched position. Manny was a 16 year old boy in that fight, Torrecampo was in his early 20s I believe. The loss to Singsurat, now THAT was a body shot. Although, Manny’s struggles with the weight before the fight were pretty well documented. He was dry as heck. Either way, we’re not talking about the same guy here. It’s the ’09 version Cotto has to deal with.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

I hold neither of the early KOs in any real regard, and don’t think either of them are anything a prospective Pacquiao opponent should take seriously. Look at what Marquez did, what Morales did, and then, well, hope for the best, because he’s gotten a lot smarter since then, too.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if a guy gets knocked out you have to hold it on some regard. yea he was a kid but both the ko’s are pretty darn embarrassing and legit.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the KOs were legit. But you’re also talking about a guy who, physically barely resembles his the late 90s version of himself. Now, if this was say, Mickey Ward, a career 140 pounder, that might be different. But the difference in Manny’s build from then to now is pretty dramatic.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely. But I really think we’re talking about two totally different fighters. Pacquiao was a kid and nowhere close to the fighter he’s become. Shit, the Pacquiao that owned Barrera the first time around isn’t anywhere near the fighter Pacquiao is now.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he’s not THAT hard to hit. you guys are making him seem floyd like in defense. you can blast the man with uppercuts all night long if you wanted to, and margarito/clottey both showed that. difference between the two was that margarito had the smarts to see that the uppercut was working and blasted cotto with it repeatedly in the last two rounds in their fight while clottey just sort of stopped punching in

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And what about Cotto-Mosley?

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don’t remember much of that fight, so i can not speak that of which i do not have knowledge of.

what i do remember from that fight is that it signaled the beginning of the new cotto. cotto is now a boxer which i think will be his demise against pacman. you can not run away from him, he is too good of a boxer and obv wayyyyyy too good of a brawler. if you are cotto you must come head first and go to war knowing you are the “bigger man”, but as teddy pointed out that cotto doesn’t exist anymore. cotto WILL get caught by some monster pacshots, and it will hurt

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

If you are going with Teddy Atlas’ prediction, you have absolutely nothing to worry about…

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wasn’t exactly using teddy’s prediction as my inspiration for my pick, but i do agree with him that cotto is “damaged goods”. he just hasn’t been the same dude. he used to be an all action walk forward demolish kind of dude, and he’s simply not that anymore. the old miguel cotto would’ve crushed gomez in 2 rounds, but boxer cotto let him live for an extra 3-4 rounds cuz he just doesn’t have that murderous instinct anymore. thats not exactly saying his shit, but he’s a changed fighter and you can’t use those boxing techniques against pacman. even JMM had to go to war with pacquiao, and thats because he is an infinitely smarter fighter than cotto

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, like I said if Atlas predicted it, bet the farm. Personally, I tend to think that Teddy is the one who is “damaged goods.”

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

goddang it just forget i mentioned teddy’s damnedable name. my point is cotto hasn’t been the same for years now, and pacquiao will KO cotto

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my point is cotto hasn’t been the same for years now, and pacquiao will KO cotto

I’ve got no issue with your pick whatsoever, but I do wonder what this “same” is that he hasn’t been. Was he supposed to knock out Clottey and Mosley? No one else ever has, including Margarito. I don’t see it as some failure that he adapted to beat both of them.

I’ll agree he didn’t treat them like he did Gianluca Branco or Alfonso Gomez, but I think that’s because he knew he couldn’t. And the Margarito fight was half a bout of Cotto taking Plasterfists to school before accumulation set in, and that accumulation is pretty freaking questionable at this point. Cotto has fought nothing but good opposition since like 2002 (scaling with the level he was at, since he debuted in 2001) and he’s seemed to me like a guy that changes better than most do. He never gets stuck doing one thing that won’t work because he can’t do anything else.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what i mean is that apparentlyhe’s become purely a boxer. before the mosley fight i remember him being a brute force, always the aggressor; but lately it seems as if he’s content with running around jabbing and throwing some flurries. now obviously that isn’t a terrible thing since cotto has proven he has the skill set to do that and still win. my gripe with that is that he can’t do that against pacquiao who’s not only a great brawler but the man can box just as well as cotto can. cotto’s gameplan has to be the aggressor in order to beat the pacman, but he just doesn’t have it in him to be that brute force he used to be. honestly even if he is the aggressor he can’t take pacquiao’s punch. i just don’t see any way for cotto to win, but like i said i’m looking at this fight with pacquaio-colored glasses :)

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I get what you mean, and I do agree he would have a lot of trouble winning a boxing match against Pacquiao thanks to Pacquiao’s speed (of hand and foot). But I also think he might be more aggressive here. Against Mosley, Clottey and Margarito (where he boxed more than “usual”), he was the smaller man. Noticeably so in all three fights. Miguel is a tiny welterweight, smaller than Berto. Physically he and Pacquiao are pretty even, so I do expect him to see if he can’t put some hurt on early.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Cotto boxes

It will look like DLH with Cotto getting caught in a corner and Pac unloading 10 punch combinations on him with complete impunity until Miguel takes a knee or the ref steps in. If he comes straight ahead, ready to go to hell and back, then he has a good chance.

But anybody that thinks that Miguel is as fast as Pacman is crazy. Pac’s hands, (not his reflexes), are just as fast as PBF’s… IMO maybe faster. Cotto is nowhere NEAR that fast despite him being a great great GREAT fighter.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 25, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

?

What about it ?

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was using that fight as an example of cotto’s brilliance

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you trying to be a smart ass?

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I remember correctly

That was a pretty close fight. Also, I don’t think that was the best version of Shane. I mean, physically, he was fine. I just don’t understand some of the things he was doing in there. I’ve always loved Shane as a fighter, really. But he does have a bit of “Meldrick Taylor” syndrome, meaning he sometimes makes things harder than they need to be. Why was he pressing Miguel so much in that fight? To entertain the crowd? To make it a war? Why? Miguel going on the backfoot threw Shane off, I feel, and suddenly Shane felt obligated to press the action. I love and hate this about the dude. He wants to give people their money’s worth, but also sometimes fights in a fashion that is “beneath” him, skillwise.

That being said, credit to Miguel for showing patience and uncanny timing in that fight. Shane has both too, and at times seemed to just throw it all out the window….

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Shane hadn’t pressed, he would have lost wider.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he seemed to get pretty careless while pressing. Which is why i thought, “Is this strategy really working for Shane?” Maybe I’ll go watch it again.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at that fight. Around round nine, all of us were thinking that Shane really needed to press even harder than he was. Cotto was extremely elusive, and was was executing a very purposeful, useful jab. If Mosley could’ve gotten past it, we figured he would’ve won the fight. If he waited for Cotto to rush in and make a mistake, he would’ve been crucified on the cards.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting. Again, I think I’ll go watch the fight again…if i can find the tape.

I know Miguel can play cutesy, don’t get me wrong. And I’m not saying Shane was wrong to press, necessarily. It’s just that when he does, he doesn’t seem very good at it. The Pressing Shane isn’t as good as the Sharp, Counter-Punching Shane. Does that make sense?

Do you think the version of Mosley that fought Cotto is as good as the Pacquiao that destroyed Hatton? Honest question.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can’t find the tape, YouTube starts here

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh!

Technology! Thanks, man.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you are asking me if I think Mosley could KO Pacquiao… yes.

I’m not alone on that… Roach thinks so too.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

That’s not what I’m asking. I KNOW Mosley could/can KO Pacquiao.

I’m asking if you think the Mosley that fought Cotto on that night is better fighter overall than the Pacquiao that KO’d Hatton and demolished Oscar.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better welterweight, for sure. Roach won’t even let Pacquiao fight at the welt limit, with Mosley, Cotto or anyone else worth fighting there.

I guess that by “the Mosley I saw fight that night” you mean to say that he was somehow inferior than he is now? Looked the same to me as always, frankly. n fact, he looked more focused and earlier than he did against Mayorga.

Shane plastered Plasterito with little trouble… but now we all know why Margs was giving guys so much trouble in the first place. And Cotto was certainly a more troublesome opponent for Shane than Hatton was for Pacquiao… but that’s because Cotto is a much, much better fighter than Hatton.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh to have seen a prime Mosley vs a prime Pacquiao when they were both at lightweight.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 26, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, exactly. That’s what I was wondering. Fair enough if you thought that was pretty much the same Shane Mosley. Me, I wasn’t that impressed with him that night. I thought that tactically, he was off from the first round. But I’ll give credit to Cotto too. He was doing some pretty neat things on the defensive end also. Nothing awe-inspiring, but neat.

Shane looked terrible against Mayorga.

And yes, agreed, Cotto is a far better fighter all around than Hatton.

by Areglado on Aug 26, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shane looked terrible against Mayorga.

If my memory is correct, it was Lou DiBella after that fight who said, “If they let Shane fight Margarito, they should be arrested. Margarito will put him in a pine box.”

After the Mayorga fight, a lot of people felt that way. Goes to show just how different (and worse) Shane is at 154 pounds.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 26, 2009 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...

Shane still KO’ed him. I honesly didn’t think he looked as bad as some do in that fight…. just a really slooooooowww start.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He looked downright lost in too many rounds. I felt he was comfortably ahead, but whatever the fuck the gameplan was, it was awful.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 26, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I think Shane’s performance has been cast in far too negative of a light that evening. I remember reading the reviews afterward and just shaking my head at people writing Shane off.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 26, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed with jrok's comment

And also yes, that’s just how Shane fights. Shane is the best non-Mexican Mexican fighter I’ve had the pleasure to see in my time.

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pac's feet are a LOT faster than Cotto's

Cotto does have underrated handspeed though.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 25, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watch the Marquez fights…

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on Aug 25, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dangerous

Dangerous, dangerous fight for both guys, in my opinion. I don’t pay attention to those who sell Cotto short in this match-up, or those who say he’s “damaged goods.” I think it’s interesting how there have been two very different interpretations of his fight against Clottey. The less-educated one being that he failed to dominate a “no-name” opponent, and thus, will likely get dominated by a truly elite fighter like Pacquiao. The second interpretation, advanced by those who at least claim to be faithful followers, careful observers of the sport, depicts Cotto overcoming a bad gash and subsequent vision impairment to pull out win against one of the most physical imposing men in the division (the other guy would be Paul Williams, obviously – but for different reasons. I honestly think Clottey is one of the strongest welters out there). It was a tough night, and a good win for Miguel Cotto, I thought. Cotto did not look spectacular because Clottey is a tough SOB. Least, that’s how I look at it.

Manny has his work cut out for him here, certainly; Cotto has taken welter-sized shots for a few years now, as well as given them. I don’t expect a blow out ala Hatton. Plus, Cotto has displayed ring-smarts and versatility that we rarely expect from a “move-forward, body banger.” That being said, I still don’t think a Marquez comparison is necessarily warranted. Marquez stands as one of best boxing minds of his generation. Cotto is an associate professor. Marquez is the dean of the department. Plus Juan Manuel just brings different weapons, the most impressive being perhaps one of the smartest right hands in the game (along with Floyd’s, Bernard’s, and Toney’s). He can throw that thing every which way, which of course, is a nightmare for southpaws like Manny. Cotto’s right? Nothing special. Effective, but very short, and not his best punch by any means. Cotto is still left-hand dominant, which will be a huge factor in this fight, in my opinion.

Body punching? For some time now, people have been saying that Pacquiao doesn’t like to get hit there, and that that’s where opponents oughta go. The only one who ever got any work done to the body on THIS version of Manny was…you guessed it: Marquez. And that’s not because he focused on the body, it’s because Manny was so busy warding off brilliant combos to the head, his body was left open. And even then, I don’t think the body punches bothered him half as much as the sneaky rights Marquez was landing on him all night. Sure, Cotto is the much heavier body puncher, but he’s got to touch Manny first, and he can’t do that without getting close, and he can’t get close without risking getting strafed by Manny. In other words, Cotto’s supposed “best weapon” can only be employed as he exposes himself to Manny’s own best stuff. Does he use angles better than Hatton does? Yes. But I think Manny’s own improved “angle-work” as well as his foot speed neutralizes that.

I really do think that at the end of the night, the ROACH factor will be huge. He’s seen something exploitable in Cotto (as opposed to Marquez who, in a personal conversation I’d had with Freddie years back, before the 1st Pac-JMM fight, was quoted to be ‘damn near perfect. That guy can fight his ass off. Very few mistakes.’ — I’m paraphrasing, but that’s pretty much what he said). He’s picked de la Hoya, Hatton, Cotto – every one of them, left-hand dominant.

Still, tough, tough fight to call. Cotto is more than a “live dog” here. He’s got a lot of heart, and he’s plenty smart. He’s a genuine threat, and screw the whole Manny deserves to be the favorite going in mentality. I say it’s even.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

on being even....

While I strongly favor Cotto, you can’t argue that Pac was much more impressive last time out, in a far more ‘valid’ win than Oscar, so thats why he’s favorite. Although I think that whatever Roach saw, he would have much preferred the fight at 142/143 than 145, which is more in Cotto’s favor now.

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 25, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There are 2 sides to that coin...

It’s more than valid to say we don’t know how Pacman will handle a true welterweights punching but its not inappropriate to say we have yet to see what Pacman will bring to the table.

When Pac fought Hatton he literally destroyed him in 2 rounds. Even if you predicted Pac would defeat Hatton few people thought he would KO him in such brutal fashion let alone in 2 rounds.

It is amazing to see Pac fighting at a weight class where Hatton is generally considered the best and I don’t think anybody at 140 or 147 would KO Hatton in that fashion in 2 rounds flat. Say what you will about Hatton but he wouldn’t be on the recieving end like that with any other boxer including Cotto.

The Roach factor ha to be taken into account without a doubt though. Even if you put Pacman and Cotto as equals Freddie Roach tips the scale for Pacman.

He’s probably watching and rewatching every Cotto fight analysing small details trying to work out how and where to strike. He’s just a fantastic coach he really defines the smarts that go into devising good plans by breaking down a boxers anatomy and attacking his weaknesses.

I think this fight will be close but thats what I said about the De La Hoya and Hatton fights. Most people were less conservative than me by saying DLH would destroy Pacman and Hatton would KO Pac via bodyshot.

by MannyPacquiao on Aug 25, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i said DLH would annihilate pacman, and i predicted (not officially) that hatton would be eviscerated within 3 rounds.

now i predict cotto will be mauled by pacman in 6 rounds

The Dude Abides

by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Well, here’s hopin’… Yea, that’s right. I’m rooting for Pacman.

by Areglado on Aug 25, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

something I can agree with a Texans fan

Go Manny!

"I finished the game. In my mind, if I finished the game, I can play next week." - Steve McNair RIP

by Pinoy Titan on Aug 29, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dont think there is much cotto can do other than not getting hit as much as oscar and ricky did.

i think if he tries to box hes going to get smacked with mannys straight left, if he comes forward hes going to get hit with mannys right hook on the way in. he hasn’t shown the best chin in the world so i would be pretty worried.

it’ll be fun and interesting while it lasts. cotto will have his moments if he can withstand mannys initial onslaught.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He showed a granite chin against Plasterito. Getting socked with gloves full of rocks for 11 rounds might make James Toney take a knee.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 25, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea but

he was rocked by chop chop and dumped and hurt repeatedly by torres.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 25, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was actually surprised watching the fight that Torres didn’t stop Cotto. That’s a hell of a scrap, too. Way underappreciated among Cotto’s best fights.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 25, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was a terrific fight that torres should have one. i remember watching it and wondering why he didn’t win.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 26, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it was a great back and forth fight

I love that fight. Torres didn’t win it because he got KTFO.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the 8 year old school kid jrock has returned. so childish.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 26, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What, am I supposed to respond to this?

OK psycho, you win. Cotto was not gritty in the Torres fight.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

To be fair, I’ve been drinking a little bit. Reviewing my comments, I might’ve been a little extra ornery. Sorry.

Cotto was gritty in the Torres fight.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck that shit. Cotto wasted Torres in seven rounds, knocking him down four times to Ricardo’s one. Cotto was a young fighter who overcame some adversity to destroy an unbeaten fellow prospect. That’s like saying Holmes had a weak chin for getting knocked down by Snipes. Cotto was gritty in that fight… it’s actually a plus for him.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

yea…..wrong again. watch the fight.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 26, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fuck are you talking about now?

Yeah I sure have… maybe you should too.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder: Where exactly was Manny’s grit when 3-K Battery knocked him the fuck out? Or is it only excuses for Manny, now that he’s “The One”?

One thing I know: I’ve seen Cotto stopped after a ton of brutal punches from a guy who most likely plastered his fists, but I’ve never seen him housed like that, squirming around on the canvas for fifteen seconds from a body shot.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

once again

has nothing to do with anything we are talking about.

by sonofapsycho on Aug 26, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, yeah, yeah

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting socked with gloves full of rocks for 11 rounds might make James Toney take a knee.

Might, but I doubt it. Certainly not from Margarito, even with the gloves.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 25, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you were kidding, btw

I just like to take opportunities at random times to defend James Toney. It’s a weakness of mine.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 25, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could probably whang Toney across the forehead with an anchor and he would just smile and eat six egg rolls.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

then offer to light your cigar

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 26, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And unbend my anchor

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man

I miss out on all the good back and forth. There were 32 comments when I left here yesterday evening London time, now 110?!

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know you were a Brit too?

I’m just surprised a few comments from last night have been erased… A bit of friendly back-and-forth between myself and jrok, GONE. Vanished inexplicably. Anyone care to explain?

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 26, 2009 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone care to explain?

Sometimes you don’t know when you’re going to run into the iceberg. Let’s put it that way.

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 26, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we not put it that way?

I genuinely don’t get what the issue was?

If you care to be a little less cryptic, I’d genuinely appreciate it.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 26, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed am

Born in Boston but lived here (London) 23 years now, moving again soon though.

What part of the UK are you from?

By the way, just email ;) The way I remember it reading them this morning, the tone of a couple of the comments got a bit profane/personal. One other user’s comments went too in that exchange. By accident I read an old fanpost of SC’s earlier, attention all new users, when I started looking at them earlier and not just the front page. Probably be a bit clearer then dude…

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember that.....

I remember saying that jrok was posting out of character, and that getting laid makes you lighter on your feet…. I in no way meant it to be profane, insulting, offensive or otherwise unacceptable, and I’m surprised if it was taken as such. I don’t think jrok took what I said offensively. Paint me surprised.

As for me, I’m in Cambridge, just up the road. I’m thinking maybe it would be a good idea to meet up and see the Cotto/Pacquiao fight, if neither of us have already got plans for it… I was supposed to meet another guy off here, but I haven’t seen him on here for ages so haven’t arranged it yet. More power to the enlightened boxing fans!! :)

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 26, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its cool anyway

cool dude, will get on your profile a bit later and send you an email

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Things that often start off being joking turn to shit really quickly. Not trying to be cryptic, I’m just fast to “police.”

Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes

by SC on Aug 26, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was drinking heavily

… and probably saying terrible things.

"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb

by jrok on Aug 26, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember that either, must have been after I went to bed.

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 26, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol @jrok

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pacquiao is more lethal at 140 -Ariza

Alex Ariza, Pacquiao’s conditioning coach once said after the DLH fight, that if you think Pacman is powerful at 147, he’d be more lethal at 140, and confidently added that Pac could demolish Hatton and Mayweather quicker than he did to DLH at the 140 range. Lee beard, Hatton’s co-trainer was also quoted in saying "Hatton was in perfect condition fighting pacquiao, even better than he was fighting mayweather, but after seeing Pacquiao’s condition in the ring, he thought he’s (PACMAN) impossible to beat. He simply saw a faster, more powerful fighter that can absorb punches and can bounce back stronger. That’s the fighter COTTO will face and that’s why I’m rooting for Pacquiao.

by Arklim on Aug 26, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dude

Pac weighed in at 142 for the DLH fight. So I didn’t figure to see That much extra power at 140. Maybe in the hype the conditioning coach conveniently forgot that?

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ain't a Damn thing changed

This will be the end of Cotto. The same outcome as D.L.H.. If you watched his last fight it’s apparent that this guy is still shell shocked. They only gave him that fight because Clottey couldn’t beat a one eyed fighter in which he should have.This will be a 4th round knockout due to excessive hand speed. Mayweather / Pac man in 2010 and the two of them will stickup the world for revenue… Me included!!

by Haans Bishop on Aug 26, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just hope I get the chance to get stuck up for that fight....

cos believe me, I’d love to see it…. :)

Boxing is the beginning of all sports. I'm willing to bet that the first sport was a man against another man in a fight. (Omar Epps)

by Chaos100 on Aug 26, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no worries

I know a few of the guys will make a night of it, you’ll be welcome. Your email’s not on your profile, neither was mine so I just stuck it up there visible.

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude

well it kind of has, as his strength at 140 against Hatton clearly wasn’t just down to the weight, as he weighed only 2lbs more for DLH? Hatton’s punch resistance had gone, and I fon’t think you can say that about Cotto…

Clottey was and is a tough fighter. I really think Cotto’s ok after his defeat, it becomes a lot easier for him to explain to himself given plasterfists being exposed. I honestly think Cotto may take him out early, so we’re polar opposites on this one…

We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)

by BrianBrock on Aug 26, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cotto has to use the ring and he be agressive early. I didn’t think he was right for the Clottey fight.Yes his punch was there ,but it just seemed he was hesitant and sluggish at times.We know the impactive desroyer Cotto can be!! He suffered a hairline fracture in his jaw with the Margarito fight.And plus the cracked ribs and any other body damage that he sustained. He might be still fucked up from that fight.That’ a loong recovery. Providing If Margarito had the plaster that night in his gloves, it’s a fuckin shame.Cotto could’ve been seriously hurt. But yeah, i just think that Manny’s speed will just be too overwhelming and primarily the dominant factor. Pacquiao is similar to a Juggernaut. He’s gaining momentum and is seemingly unstoppable in his prime.Pacquiao by knockout.

by killah27 on Sep 6, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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