Freddie Roach talks Mayweather-Marquez and Cotto-Pacquiao
by SC on Aug 29, 2009 3:01 AM EDT
in News Analysis
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World-renowned trainer Freddie Roach has slowly but surely become one of the sport's biggest and loudest talkers. And he's using the voice he's earned as the man behind Manny Pacquiao's unbelievable transformation from action star to pound-for-pound king to take shots at the upcoming Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Juan Manuel Marquez showdown on September 19.
Speaking with FightHype, Roach had this to say about the fight itself:
"The styles just don't match up. Styles make fights. People know the styles of both by nature are counter-punchers. Marquez has changed his style somewhat; he's more offensive [now], but still, his best fight is as a counter-puncher. That's why he did so well against Pacquiao, because Manny is so aggressive and he's used to attacking so much that [Marquez's] counter-punching style is great for that. When he doesn't have a guy that comes to him, he's not as effective."
The last time Marquez lost was the still-debated rematch with Pacquiao, and before that it was in 2006 against featherweight titlist Chris John, a slick counter-puncher. The Marquez camp has long made noise about being robbed in that fight, but he undoubtedly struggled with John either way you look at it.
Since then, he's 6-1 with four stoppage wins. He has beaten very limited brawler Terdsak Jandaeng, a highly overmatched Jimrex Jaca, Marco Antonio Barrera, Rocky Juarez, Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz. I felt the Casamayor fight was very close until the 11th round Marquez TKO, a very impressive stoppage considering Casamayor had never been beaten inside the distance before then. Diaz and Barrera came at him, and Juarez might've tried to if Marquez had ever let him get out of the starting blocks.
There's no Mayweather guy there. This is one thing that's really starting to bug me when it comes to JMM's chances in this fight: He has NEVER beaten a guy as good as Mayweather, or someone with the pure ability Mayweather has.
Roach also says he's heard some unfavorable reviews of Mayweather's training camp, saying, "I hear Mayweather is not looking that great."
He also doesn't believe their PPV is going to be a success:
"They've already given up on the pay-per-view audience [referencing the news that Mayweather-Marquez will be shown in movie theaters]. They know it's not going to sell. Someone's going to take a bath in that fight."
But Freddie is also somewhat concerned about his own fighter, Manny Pacquiao, as he is waiting for Pacquiao to get his head into the fight game:
"I now hear that Manny wants to train in the Philippines. I think it's a mistake. I think it's too many distractions for him. This is the toughest fight of his life. Cotto's a big 147-pounder, strong guy, beat Shane Mosley..."
Before I continue quoting Roach, I just want to say this: Miguel Cotto is not a big 147-pounder. Miguel Cotto is actually quite small at 147 pounds. Cotto and Pacquiao are basically the exact same size.
"I talked to Mike Koncz yesterday. I said, 'Where are we going to train?' He said, 'I haven't asked Manny yet.' I said, 'You haven't asked Manny yet? What do you mean you haven't asked Manny?' He says, 'He's busy making a movie.' I said, 'What the hell? You're scared to ask Manny?' These guys are petrified of Manny because they're just there for a payday and I'm pissed off about it."
The Pacquiao entourage and lawyers and advisers were given some guff by Top Rank promoter Bob Arum and by Roach before the Ricky Hatton fight, as they attempted to bully Hatton in negotiations before everyone realized Ricky Hatton wouldn't back down from the share he wanted. So this isn't the first time that Pacquiao's crew has been called out for something like this.
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Well it’s kind of a given the JMM vs Mayweather fight isn’t selling. Fake injury problems are big indicators.
Pacman not training for Cotto could cost him this fight. He is a huge superstar over there without a doubt but heneeds to tone it down otherwise he will get defeated.
by MannyPacquiao on Aug 29, 2009 5:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely NOT the same same size
In Pacquiao’s last fight at the 147-lb limit against De La Hoya, his fight night weight was 148.5.
For Cotto, in the last fight at 147 in which he allowed himself to be weighed on fight night ,against Urkal, his fight night weight was 159. On top of that, that was over 2 years ago. His natural weight is likely higher now.
How is that the same size? That’s a 10 pound difference. Please get your facts straight here.
by vvps on Aug 29, 2009 6:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pacquiao is about 5’6"
Cotto is about 5’7"
They both have a 67-inch reach.
Miguel Cotto is a very small welterweight, smaller than Andre Berto, and everyone worries about how he’ll handle bigger guys. Berto is 5’8 1/2" or so and wide in the shoulders. This is more of Roach and everyone else associated with Manny trying to make Pacquiao out to be much smaller than he actually is because when he was a kid he won titles at flyweight. He’s not a kid anymore.
Pacquiao also weighed in against Oscar at 142 on the scales. They tried to keep him light to avoid overbulking him. It was smart. It also put a bit of a wrench into a lot of the hemming and hawing over one or two pounds that we see everywhere, and Roach and Pacquiao demanding 145 (or lower) for this fight was pure gamesmanship and an attempt to grab an advantage. This stuff has gotten way overdone. Pacquiao and Cotto are the same size human being and I don’t want to hear the excuses if Manny loses because he’s “so much smaller than Cotto.” He isn’t.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Aug 29, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't be serious
Because Pacquiao and Cotto have similar height and reach, that means they’re the same size? Are you serious? You do realize boxing divisions are based on weight, don’t you?
By your logic, Cotto vs. Humberto Soto would be an even fight LOL. Humberto Soto is 5’7-1/2" with a 72" reach. No wait, actually, by your logic, super featherweight Soto is bigger than welterweight Cotto! =D
Cotto is bigger than Pacquiao. Cotto will outweigh Pacquiao by around 10 lbs on fight night. Any claim to the contrary is just spin.
by vvps on Aug 31, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No wait, actually, by your logic, super featherweight Soto is bigger than welterweight Cotto! =D
Not really, no. I didn’t think tall Diego Corrales was going to bother Joshua Clottey at welter, either. Corrales’ frame was really narrow, Clottey’s is not.
Look, my point is that Cotto is not a big welterweight. If you want to talk spin, it’s Mighty Mouse Pacquiao defying the odds by taking on all these Goliaths who so greatly dwarf the diminutive man who once was really really skinny and really really young. I’ve said before I find it more incredible — when looking at the matured, filled out, properly trained Pacquiao — that Manny ever won a title under 126 or so than it is that he’s gone all the way up to welterweight. He’s not as small as they continue to make him out to be, which works great for not wanting to give Miguel Cotto two pounds and refusing to fight Shane Mosley unless he boiled down to a weight that would destroy him come fight night.
Of his last three opponents, the only guy that had a real physical advantage on paper was Oscar, who was much taller and longer. Pacquiao is just not as small as advertised, but it’s good marketing. I am not saying Cotto is smaller than Manny, I am not saying Cotto won’t be heavier on fight night, I’m saying it won’t matter and won’t be a valid “excuse” should Manny lose to Cotto.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Aug 31, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
confused
First you say they are “exactly the same size.”
Now you say, ok ok even though they aren’t the same size, it won’t matter. Move the goalposts much?
Weight does matter. Just ask the way the boxing divisions are partitioned. And make no mistake Cotto will outweigh Pacquiao by around 10 lbs on fight night.
Don’t be disingenuous. You know well and good that, for the same punch, it is generally harder to hurt a heavier man than a lighter man.
by vvps on Aug 31, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
You Are aware how the divisions are partitioned, my bad ;)
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 31, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you say, ok ok even though they aren’t the same size, it won’t matter. Move the goalposts much?
No, I’m saying that Cotto is not smaller than Manny, which I never said. My point from moment one of this is that Cotto is not a big welterweight. I am not being disingenuous, this entire discussion started with this line, which was nothing more than a response to Freddie Roach saying — incorrectly and and in my opinion for the purposes of further hyping this myth that Pacquiao is so much smaller than these guys — that Cotto is “a big welterweight”: “Miguel Cotto is not a big 147-pounder. Miguel Cotto is actually quite small at 147 pounds. Cotto and Pacquiao are basically the exact same size.”
And I have not changed my stance on that at all, so rest assured the goalposts are in the same place they started. I don’t think there’s a real physical difference in the two of them. And you’re using a prediction (“Cotto will outweigh Pacquiao by around 10 lbs on fight night”) as fact, and even though you may very well turn out to be right, it’s not a fact.
You’re talking about a fight with Oktay Urkal from March 2007, and I’m not trying to be smarmy or anything, but that’s ancient history at this point. We don’t have fight night weights for Cotto’s last SIX fights. Cotto might re-hydrate to 10-15 pounds higher than what Pacquiao will weigh on fight night, and he also might not depending on how his camp goes and what they target in training. If they’re looking to get him faster, he really might not come in at more than 154 or so, which would be a nine-pound gain assuming he weighed in at 145 on the button. He also might dry out the way Oscar did if he winds up struggling to make the mark at 145 or if he overtrains, which I don’t expect he will but it’s something that does happen. Yeah, he could come in at 159, 160, which would be a 14-15 pound gain, but it’s not a guarantee.
And yes, Manny weighed 148 1/2 for Oscar, a 6 1/2 pound gain from the weigh-in. But Manny also came in at 148 against Hatton, who was at 152 on fight night. Manny was at 138 for their weigh-in and put on a full ten pounds overnight for that one. If he gets back up to 142, 143 like he was for Oscar, he might come in around 152, 153 pounds for the fight. I’m not saying I’d count on that, just saying he re-hydrated a full three and a half pounds more for Hatton than he did for Oscar. It really wouldn’t surprise me to see them fairly close weight-wise on fight night.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Aug 31, 2009 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for the record, I’m not at all trying to be disrespectful of you having an opinion that differs from mine on this or any matter, and I also appreciate you not being hostile in your disagreements. Too many boxing sites are littered with pissing contests. I prefer discussion, which is what this has been. Welcome to BLH and I hope you stick around for the long haul.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Aug 31, 2009 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
facts
One, there’s half an inch between them in height.
Two, they have exactly the same reach.
In those terms, they’re pretty much the same size, dude. They may walk around at different weights, but as for actual physical dimensions, height are reach are probably better and more relevant gauges than fight night weights.
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 29, 2009 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Roach
You mean Roach thinks the Mayweather Camp is not going well? Really? This is like asking Rush Limbaugh if he thinks Obama is winning Health Care Debate. And who would talk to Roach from the Mayweather camp with accurate information? Also, you better hope the FMM v JMM PPV goes well because those are the only two fighters who will generate serious amounts of income for the Pac-Man. Sure there are other fighters I will like to see the Pac-Man take on, but none of them have the earning potential of either FMM or JMM.
by waldo47 on Aug 29, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True Facts
They have almost or same height and reach but have different weight. Cotto may come in 10-15lbs heavier than pacquiao. Remember, weight means more power and durability. So its like what you guys are saying that because pacquiao is 5’6 1/2 and has a 67" reach while cotto is 5’7 and has same reach as pacquiao means they’re the same size? It’s like your also saying Mike Tyson 5"11 1/2 and Oscar De La Hoya 5"10 1/2 are the same size because they have almost the same height. Cotto is BIG. He is a big welterweight but a short one.
by Boxing on Aug 29, 2009 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well....
They walk around at different weights, but unlike your analogy where physically there was a world of difference in the divisions they fought in, Pac and Cotto can both make the same weight.
Cotto will rehydrate and be around 10-12lbs more fight night, while Pac will put on at least 6, so am not sure where your ‘10-15lb’ difference on fight night comes from?! A high estimate would be around 6/7lbs…
You didn’t really give a basis for saying Cotto’s BIG or a big welterweight in general?
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 30, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
facts
they may weigh in the same but pac will enter the fight below 150lbs. The oscar fight, he weigh in at 142 and rehydrated back to 148.5lbs at fight night. While im confident that cotto will weigh in at 145 and will rehydrate back to 156-160lbs during fight night.
by Boxing on Aug 30, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
as has been said elsewhere, Pac was fine to give the weight away to DLH, but I feel he’ll weigh in on or close to the limit, as he won’t want to give the weight away to Votto, unlike DLH, and naturally rehydrate at least 6lbs(I always thought boxers put on 6-14lba on rehydrating post weigh in) – so there may not be a big difference on fight night.
I happen to agree with you in thinking Cotto and early….
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 30, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
but cotto normally rehydrates 12-14 pounds every fight. Pac weighed 142 during the weigh in of the oscar fight and rehydrated to 148.5
im a filipino and would be happy if pac wins but i believe cotto is too much of a power puncher + weight diff and his chin in my view is no longer a suspect, CLOTTEY FIGHT!!! He’ s not washed up either. Cotto was just slow in that fight after the cut. Imagine how he knocked clottey down in the first round with ease and precision!
by Boxing on Aug 30, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw
btw cotto is older now. His last fight where his fighting weight was showed was over 2-3 years ago where he weighed back to a whopping 159 lbs for a 147 lb fight. He is older now and will rehydrate even more! Maybe around 160-162. Remember that pac 3 years ago was a small super featherweight and now a small jr. welterweight. that’s 2 weight classes diff
by Boxing on Aug 30, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But still...
I believe cotto will knock pacman out with a left hook to the body at the 3rd round!
by Boxing on Aug 30, 2009 1:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For Pacquiao’s last three fights, his fight night weight has been 147, 148.5, and 148. This is a good indication of his “natural” ring weight. The last time Cotto allowed a fight night weigh in was seven fights ago against Urkal. He weighed 159 fight night, two years ago.
There will be a 10 lb fight night weight difference on November 14, count on it.
And no, Pacquiao and Cotto cannot make the same weights. If he wanted to, Pacquiao could probably still make 135. At Cotto’s last fight at 140, he looked emaciated at the weigh in. Can you imagine Cotto trying to make 135? He’d look like a corpse.
Bottom line, don’t try to pretend that they are the same size. Child please, 10 lbs difference != same size.
by vvps on Aug 30, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
This is what I’ve been telling them. Cotto is a big welterweight, not a “small welterweight”. He is just a short welterweight!
by Boxing on Aug 31, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
compared to which welterweights is Cotto 'big' exactly?!
Margarito? Clottey? Those are ‘big’ welterweights…
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 31, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares? The point is that Cotto will be bigger than Pacquiao by around 10 lbs on November 14.
So Cotto is a small welterweight. What does that make Manny, who is 10 lbs lighter than Cotto fight night?
by vvps on Aug 31, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
‘who cares’?!
He was clearly incorrect in saying Cotto is a big welterweight. You agree with me on that point, as most would ;)
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. That Cotto has a major size advantage? Devaluing a potential Cotto win? Making out the odds are stacked against Pac? None of which are particularly credible.
Pac fights closer to his walk around weight, so you could easily say he has a huge advatage in that it’s a Lot tougher for Cotto to get down to 145. You could extend that and say he had a huge advantage over Hatton, who walks around at a Lot more than 140, and even more so with DLH.
But I’m not saying that ;)
By the way, despite your emphasis on fight night weights, I believe fights and titles are set at the weights boxers weigh In at ;) they’re designed for men of a similar Size to fight at similar Weights, and bodies rehydrate differently.
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 31, 2009 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares? The point is that Cotto will be bigger than Pacquiao by around 10 lbs on November 14.
So Cotto is a small welterweight. What does that make Manny, who is 10 lbs lighter than Cotto fight night?
This entire thing started simply because I disagree with Roach’s assessment that Cotto is a big welterweight, so as far as the discussion is concerned, it matters that Cotto is a small welterweight, doesn’t it?
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t matter if you consider Cotto a big welterweight or a small welterweight or a tiny welterweight or a whatever welterweight. What matters is that you think he and Manny are the same size. That’s just not true. Ask any trainer, ask any die hard boxing fan who isn’t a Pacquiao fanboy or Cotto fanboy.
And my point about Cotto’s last fight night weigh-in being six fights and two years ago is that boxers tend to get heavier with age. Do you disagree with that? Cotto was 160 vs Urkal on fight night. Come fight night he’ll be around that weight if not heavier against Pacquiao.
by vvps on Aug 31, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant, that unlike Tyson-Cotto and Cotto-Soto examples, they can make the same weight of 145lbs. It would be fatuous to say two guys are the same size in terms of reach and height when there are many divisions between the weights at which they fight.
But clearly, if two guys have the same physical dimensions and are fighting at the same catchweight of 145, there’s a perfectly valid point in saying they’re the same ‘size’, despite the fact one will rehydrate more than the other and weigh more fight night.
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Aug 31, 2009 2:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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