Guess the Buys for Mayweather-Marquez
Back in May, we did this for Hatton-Pacquiao. My own guess was 850K, right around the actual reported number of about 825-850K, which Bob Arum did his best to hide because it didn't cover all that insane gibberish about the fight breaking all the records in a depressed economy. Arum was seriously a bit mad with that talk.
A lot of people seem to totally misunderstand PPV numbers. 400,000 for Pacquiao-Marquez II is something I see made fun of a lot, with those dumbos not realizing that that was an all-time record for headlining fighters that size or smaller. UFC does great PPV numbers nowadays, and it's because they are -- without question -- a more popular brand of combat sports in America. You cannot dispute this, but it doesn't make lesser numbers "failures," either.
So how about Mayweather-Marquez? First off, a refresher for some recent PPV estimates, going back to 2007:
| Date | Fight | Buys |
|---|---|---|
| 2007-05-05 | de la Hoya-Mayweather | 2.4M* |
| 2007-12-08 | Mayweather-Hatton | 910K |
| 2008-01-19 | Jones-Trinidad | 500K |
| 2008-02-16 | Pavlik-Taylor II | 250K |
| 2008-03-15 | Marquez-Pacquiao II | 400K** |
| 2008-06-28 | Diaz-Pacquiao | 200K |
| 2008-07-26 | Cotto-Margarito | 450K |
| 2008-09-13 | Casamayor-Marquez | 100K |
| 2008-10-18 | Pavlik-Hopkins | 195K |
| 2008-11-08 | Calzaghe-Jones | 225K |
| 2008-12-06 | de la Hoya-Pacquiao | 1.25M |
| 2009-05-02 | Hatton-Pacquiao | 825K |
Casamayor-Marquez was a Golden Boy-produced, HBO-distributed PPV, meaning it didn't get the sort of hype that most of these fights did (Diaz-Pacquiao is in the same boat as a Top Rank PPV).
The key factors tomorrow night:
- UFC 103 is going head-to-head. This can't be understated. The last time boxing and MMA went head-to-head was November 2006, when Pacquiao-Morales III went up against a UFC card. Pacquiao-Morales "lost" that "battle," and UFC really wasn't as hot then as it is now. It's worth noting that a lot of people didn't feel Pacquiao-Morales was a PPV-worthy fight at that point. Morales wasn't exactly at his peak.
- Floyd Mayweather Jr., whether his star is as big as he thinks or not (it's probably not), is the biggest star fighting tomorrow, hands down. Mayweather is a bigger domestic star than everyone on that UFC show combined. That's not a shot at anyone, it's just that the UFC show is loaded with good fights and headlined by Rich Franklin-Vitor Belfort. It's a show diehard MMA fans are likely to really enjoy. In a way, it kind of reminds me of Golden Boy's Lightweight Lightning PPV from April. No big stars, but lots of fights that promise to be interesting and exciting, and when it's all said and done, most people are likely to go, "Yeah, that was money well spent." But in terms of the big fight, Mayweather-Marquez is THE big fight tomorrow. Whether that can muscle past the UFC marketing machine and a good card is another story.
- There are other ways to see this show, including movie theaters.
As for me, I think a lot of folks in boxing will be pleasantly surprised, and that a lot of folks who are -- for whatever reason -- rooting for this fight to fail gloriously are going to be one of two things: (1) Disappointed, or (2) As thick as they are now, meaning that a respectable number will be talked up like some massive failure by people who don't understand what they're talking about.
I'm guessing about 550K for this show and 500K for UFC. Believe it or not, I actually think there are that many people out there and maybe more that are totally willing to buy one of the two shows tomorrow night.
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If a shot Jones and an even more shot Tito did 500K and Pacquiao-Hatton did about 825K, I figure that if Mayweather-Marquez does anywhere between those two, it will be considered a minor success. On the other hand, If it does less than Cotto-Margarito it will be a total disaster, meaning that Oscar De La Hoya couldn’t even get Mexicans to buy a Marquez fight on Mexican Independence Day. That would be an embarrassing belly flop.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Sep 18, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I say 650K
Although the number may end up being much higher if they count the closeed circuit feeds into movie theaters and the like, which they usually do (and which UFC does as well – I’ve harped on this before, but part of the reason the UFC numbers look so good is that they count everyone who pays $20 to watch the fight in a bar as well as the people who order the PPVs at home, which inflates the numbers since you’re getting less revenue for each of those people, and gives UFC an advantage because they have a much better set of contracts to show events than does HBO).
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Sep 18, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
700-800 sounds about right.
600-700 for UFC
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Sep 18, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been flip-flopping on this for weeks, but I think boxing wins this time. There are too many good UFC cards. We get at least 1 a month. I’ll buy boxing this time because we only get treated to a mega-fight 2-3 times a year. This is one of them.
Boxing 650
UFC 500
by steak_knife on Sep 18, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll say 600k
That would probably be the minimum for the fight to come off as a success I think, and I hope it does well, despite the potential for it to maybe not be that competitive.
We're all given some sort of skill in life. Mine just happens to be beating up on people. (Sugar Ray Leonard)
by BrianBrock on Sep 18, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to go against the grain.
I’m going to say that Mayweather/ Marquez does at least 675k domestic and UFC does about 700-725k.
I do think there’s going to be a drop in viewership, but I think 500k is a bit to steep, 700 sounds more natural. Also, if anything this will be a legit excuse to hang out and drink with folks in certain areas. So if the fights suck, there’s always sharing a pitcher with your buds anyway.
On the radio tomorrow SC?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
by RoyalB on Sep 18, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
don't know yet
But I doubt it. Lots of MMA to cover, probably not enough time to get boxing on, too.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Sep 18, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also don't forget UFC has free airtime in Mexico and England.
Don’t know if that counts for anything or not.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
by RoyalB on Sep 18, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UFC 80 went up with RJJ-Tito
Tito got 500k 80 got close to 300 but that was tape delay.
Floyd is good for over 300k guaranteed and JMM adds 100k. I mean who bought that card for Casamayor? This will do no worse than 400k which I think would be a success
by gunranger on Sep 18, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You not really going to count Euro cards, are you?
The UFC always get fucked over by the sports bars every time they have a card in Europe. People are mostly at work when it’s live and those that are shelling for the replay are the ones getting the event the correct way.
That’s like giving last place in a footrace to a guy with no legs.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
by RoyalB on Sep 18, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually joined when they had that PPV for the play by play here….
God I hate Mario Lopez….
Also… they sang the Cuban National Anthem. I mean… no one can see the fight from Cuba.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Sep 18, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Role of theaters
The role of movie theaters showing the fight should not be discounted as it would bring in an audience that has a casual interest, but would not ordinarily buy a PPV. Depending on how tomorrow turns out, the numbers could push the final total higher or take away buys based on what happens.
I have a feeling there will be a lot to talk about come Sunday.
by cyke on Sep 18, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, given the undercard, I think your prediction of 550k is spot on.
by cyke on Sep 18, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to see both. I hope 103 is filled with flash KOs and submissions so the show ends as soon as Mayweather-Marquez starts.
Keep firing Assholes!
Protect your caterpillar from Kimbo Slice.
by Ubernoober on Sep 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Filipinos
I was at a mall in Milpitas, CA for lunch and all the Filipinos eating at Jollibee were abuzzed and excited for this fight too. They would provide the incremental PPV buys that would only normally come w/ a Pacquiao fight. Pinoys have a lot of interest on this too, with an assumption that the winner would fight Pac (if and when he beats Cotto).
by arch on Sep 18, 2009 9:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
675,000 buys is my guess. The weight scandal won’t matter a whit in buys.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Sep 18, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No probably not. People have made up their minds anyway, and a lot of the minds made up probably don’t even know this happened.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Sep 18, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say 650K
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Cotto/Pacman get more buys…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Sep 18, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cotto-Pacquiao will get FAR more buys. Pacquiao’s the hottest fighter in the sport and draws a wide range of fans, and Cotto has the massive Puerto Rican fanbase behind him. I’ll almost guarantee Cotto-Pacquaio smokes this show in buys.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by SC on Sep 18, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no doubt Pac / Cotto will get more buys.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Sep 19, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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