Bad Left Hook Pound-for-Pound Top 20 Update: Welcome back, Floyd
We always knew he'd be coming back. Manny Pacquiao may be the hottest property in boxing, but Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s return to the ring has opened up a ton of debate. Who's really No. 1? Well...
1. Manny Pacquiao (Junior Welterweight) and Floyd Mayweather Jr. (Welterweight) -- Tie
I don't even like scoring 10-10 rounds, but the truth here, I think, is that there is ONE FIGHT out there that will truly decide the pound-for-pound crown, and it's Mayweather-Pacquiao right now. That might not even be true in two months. If Miguel Cotto upsets Pacquiao, then the pound-for-pound ruler is Mayweather, no questions about it.
A Mayweather-Pacquiao fight would be the perfect storm. Guys like Ricky Hatton and many others have talked about "winning" the pound-for-pound "title" in past fights, but it doesn't really work that way. Should Pacquiao beat Cotto, we would potentially have a fight that is literally to crown the world's top boxer. It's very rare that you get a chance like this, and should that fight come about, I hope boxing fans cherish the opportunity to see a fight of that magnitude and importance take place.
Of course, I still don't think the fight will, for any number of reasons. But I still like to hope.
3. Juan Manuel Marquez (Lightweight)
Until someone more his size can take him down besides (arguably) Manny Pacquiao, Marquez isn't dipping lower than this for me. He didn't look shot, he looked outclassed and out of his range weight-wise. It happens. Lots of great fighters have taken that risk, and while some make special things happen, many just don't, because the weight is too big an obstacle. That's what happened to Marquez. I think he's very vulnerable even at 135, but he's taken out Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz at that weight, neither an easy task.
4. Paul Williams (Middleweight)
We'll see exactly what Williams can do against a young, strong, big-punching opponent on December 5. Williams' fight with Kelly Pavlik will be a decider in some ways. Either I'm really overrating Williams on the strength of how horribly he embarrassed an aged Winky Wright, plus his disposals of Verno Phillips and Carlos Quintana and a near-forgotten gutsy win over Antonio Margarito, or he becomes cemented up here with the top guys in the world.
5. Bernard Hopkins (Light Heavyweight)
Calling B-Hop a light heavy is kind of a fib, as he has looked more comfortable cutting down to 170 and beating Kelly Pavlik and Winky Wright in two of his last three, and a full 175-pound fight with Joe Calzaghe didn't go near so well. Guys that can make Bernard work really hard and use their speed can still give him fits, which is why I think even the shot Roy Jones Jr. would be a dangerous opponent for Hopkins. And I'm not sure he has the frame to work well at cruiserweight, as has been discussed for a bout with Tomasz Adamek. But Hop has earned his spot up here, and he won't lose it until he loses or retires, and I'm not sure which is more likely to happen first.
6. Shane Mosley (Welterweight)
It's very close between Shane and Cotto. Thing is, if they rematched right now, I'd lean toward Mosley just a little bit. I had him losing a clear, tight decision to Cotto when they fought back in 2007. Last time we saw Shane, he beat the hell out of Margarito, and you can asterisk plenty about Margarito, but one thing is not his chin. He's taken some absurd shots in his career, and no plaster helped him in that regard. Mosley beat him mercilessly until he caved.
7. Miguel Cotto (Welterweight)
A win over Manny Pacquiao would leapfrog Cotto higher than he's ever been, maybe even a shot all the way up to No. 2 depending on how it came about. Cotto isn't in a make-or-break situation or even close to it, but he's never had a bigger fight than this one, and if he loses, he might not get the chance to ever have one this big again.
8. Hozumi Hasegawa (Bantamweight)
Hasegawa jumps from No. 10 for me thanks to a couple of guys dropping after lackluster performances, and the fact that he's just plain been a bulldozer at 118 pounds the last couple of years. He's been ripping guys apart. He may be the most underrated and overlooked fighter out there.
9. Juan Manuel Lopez (Junior Featherweight)
Like Williams, you might think I simply have Lopez too high, but he's got such enormous talent that I can't help but be mesmerized by what he could do. Facts are facts, though, and Lopez needs to face the music against Celestino Caballero. The fight has been discussed for January. If he skips up to featherweight, it'll always be a bit of a question mark on his ledger.
10. Chris John (Featherweight)
John (43-0-2, 22 KO) got the W he probably deserved in February when he again survived a late charge from Rocky Juarez on Saturday night. John was nearly out on his feet in the 12th round, rocked by a short left hook that buckled his knees. He held on for dear life and won a clear decision. John's two fights with Juarez have finally made it clear that yes, this guy is one of the best boxers in the game. His late-fight struggles with Juarez are nothing to be alarmed about, either. Even though he's never gotten over the hump, Juarez is a powerful, legit fighter at 126 pounds.
11. Ivan Calderon (Junior Flyweight)
I know Ivan has yet to lose, but he's just not the same guy he was a couple years ago. Age is taking a toll on him, as is the recurring cut issue that has plagued his recent fights, including two tight, early-ending decisions against Rodel Mayol, one a split decision win, the other a draw. He's still one of the better pure boxers in the sport, but while at one point in the recent past you could say he was even slicker than Mayweather, that is no longer the case.
12. Nonito Donaire (Junior Bantamweight)
Donaire's move up to 115 pounds wasn't terribly impressive, and he's never had a performance that equaled what he did to Vic Darchinyan. But it's also worth taking into account that his opponent, Rafael Concepcion, was notably overweight and heavier on fight night. Donaire is still in need of another big win, and he's willing to move in weight to find it. I don't think it's a lack of guts that's been keeping Nonito from landing top opposition.
13. Chad Dawson (Light Heavyweight)
His November 7 rematch with Glen Johnson will let us know plenty. Antonio Tarver is fairly well-worn and a perfect matchup for Dawson, who was stronger, faster, younger and fresher. But Johnson gave Dawson all he could handle and more last year.
14. Kelly Pavlik (Middleweight)
The lingering, ugly loss to Hopkins is still the focal point of Pavlik's career, which has been rocky at best in 2009. A year-end fight with Paul Williams is just what the doctor ordered. An impressive win vaults Pavlik back into the top ten, even if at the lower end. Another loss sends Pavlik to a point where it's time to re-evaluate what he's done. His two best wins came over Jermain Taylor, and we all know that Taylor has had his issues over the last few years.
15. Mikkel Kessler (Super Middleweight)
Kessler got back on American TV this month, his first appearance in the States since his 2007 loss to Joe Calzaghe. He wiped the mat with Gusmyl Perdomo, a decent fighter. He'll face Andre Ward in November, the first serious test of Ward's career as a professional. Ward has the physical tools to hang with Kessler, but we know Mikkel can fight in the face of adversity, as he gave Calzaghe one of his toughest tests. Can Ward overcome Kessler's strong, fast jab and the right hand that follows it?
16. Arthur Abraham (Super Middleweight)
It's going to be interesting to see how Abraham does jumping to 168 for the Super Six. His style mixes great defense with powerful offense, sort of a right-handed Winky Wright who can bang. But he's by far the shortest man among the six fighting in the tournament, and though he's a big favorite against Taylor on October 17, a loss to the taller, more athletic man would not be the most shocking thing ever. Taylor, even in a down period, is still the best fighter Abraham's ever faced.
17. Rafael Marquez (Featherweight)
Soon, if Israel Vazquez is successful in his October 10 comeback, Marquez's great rival should join him on this list. But I don't expect either of them to climb back into the top ten. There's a lot of talent out there, and both guys are almost surely severely damaged by their series. But until we find out that they're beaten up too badly to compete at the top level, both deserve the benefit of the doubt, I feel.
18. Celestino Caballero (Junior Featherweight)
Still not a fan, still can't argue that he's earned it. If Lopez-Caballero is made as we all hope it is, there'll be a lot of people picking Caballero. I think Lopez busts him up awful, personally.
19. Vic Darchinyan (Junior Bantamweight)
One tough loss at a weight that seemed too much for him, and Vic drops all the way down here now? It's simple: This list is really, really competitive. There is very little separating most of these fighters. Darchinyan might beat Joseph Agbeko seven times out of ten, but the one time they fought, Vic just didn't make the most of it.
20. Edgar Sosa (Junior Flyweight)
Sosa's run of title defenses is impressive, and you can't really knock the competition as much as you might in other weight classes. There's not a lot of depth at these lower weights, and Sosa is doing his job every time out.
Honorable Mentions: Wladimir Klitschko (Heavyweight), Lucian Bute (Super Middleweight), Tomasz Adamek (Cruiserweight), Joseph Agbeko (Bantamweight), Daisuke Naito (Flyweight), Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (Flyweight), Omar Narvaez (Flyweight)
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Mayweather will come around eventually...
I know he wants to take more than 50-50 but that fight will bank him a LOT of money so eventually he will go back to the negotiating table and accept the 50-50 Pac and Roach have put down.
Hey, you cheated.
Good to see Juan Manuel Lopez here. I have him much higher, the criteria being who looks like the full package out there. I rate Cotto over Mosley, not just because he beat him but because he’s a more complete fighter. Lucian Bute is hovering near my top ten, and I rate Donaire over Calderon but otherwise this is a pretty tight list (even though you cheated with #1).
One thought I had. If Cotto climbs down two pounds and beats Manny Pacquiao, (while Floyd paid 600K to climb up a couple of pounds on Marquez), I think you would have to rate Floyd and Cotto the same, and maybe even rate Cotto higher than Floyd. Cotto has already proven himself the greater welterweight, with wins over Shane Mosely, a prime Josh Clottey and a prime Carlos Quintana. With opponents in common, Cotto kayoed Zab Judah and Chop Chop, while Floyd beat both by decision, and really had one of the closest fights of his career against Zab. Cotto has one loss on his record, but there is a very big asterisks on that loss,and Floyd’s wins over the past few years have more asterisks than there are stars in the sky.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
It’s great that you put Hasegawa in here. I’ve only seen him fight a few times but he was brilliant in every time.
I have to say I agree that if Cotto beats Pacquiao he should be ranked ahead of Floyd.
by Drunken cutman on Sep 22, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
silly me
I wish there was an edit button…
by Drunken cutman on Sep 22, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Pacquiao is Overrated
He Lost to Morales the first fight and then fought him a Second and third time and Morales was Drained for those two fights that’s why le Lost, he couldn’t make the weight and he took it fot the Money. David Diaz is weak a Drained Oscar and a Beaten Down Clumsey Hatton. When he fights Cotto he will be fighting a true Welterweight who isn’t Drained or Clumsey. PACQUIAO will LOse to COTTO!!!
I'm sure that if Cotto loses
He will have been weight drained because of the catchweight, right?
I honestly can’t decide who I think will win this one.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I tried to be nice as I deleted a comment from before, but I really don’t want to see you posting the same fucking comment over and over again on multiple threads. Hatton is “Clumsey” Oscar was Drained! You’ve been banned four times for this. You should seriously consider the idea that maybe this isn’t the site for you.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 22, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My Bad
I won’t use the same line but I’m not using Profanity, I guess no one likes to hear the Truth. I Apologize
its not team pacquiaos
fault that oscar was weight drained – i dont think that should take anything away from MPs dominant performance. Oscar said it himself that he saw punches coming from every direction.. its the speed that beat him and he would have been as fast that ngiht even if he wasnt weight drained. As far as Hatton, he was coming off a solid win.. Pacquiao just dominated him. Plain and simple. Regardless though, he is going down as one of the best EVER – more so when he takes the decision over Cotto.
We will see
If he can Beat Cotto,FM,Shane Mosley and Marquez 3rd and Final time then he will be in my opinion. He is Fast I never said that.
Profanity (up to a point) is actually OK. Just don’t repeat yourself on like ten different posts. That’s really the only problem you’ve ever had here.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If Cotto defeats Pacquiao in November...
Then he’s the number 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world, not Mayweather.
A win with pacquiao makes him run away from anything that Floyd’s ever accomplished. If Cotto wins, Cotto would have fought and beaten better competition at Floyd’s own weight for the past two or three years.
Cotto shouldn’t cheat on the weight, though, so that he’ll get full credit. Mayweather being overweight for Marquez is a shame, and i don’t think it merits him the pound-for-pound throne were Cotto to beat Pacquiao.
Cotto's already beaten better Welterweight competition then Floyd.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
hmm
Cotto at 147:
W-RTD-5 Carlos Quintana
W-TKO-11 Oktay Urkal
W-TKO-11 Zab Judah
W-UD-12 Shane Mosley
W-RTD-5 Alfonso Gomez
L-TKO-11 Antonio Margarito
W-TKO-5 Michael Jennings
W-UD-12 Joshua Clottey
Yeah — it’s really not close, not even just by volume. The wins over Mosley AND Clottey are both better than anything Floyd’s done at 147 and the loss to Margarito is asterisked and really, whatever, he lost to him because he had the balls to fight him.
Floyd at 147, for kicks:
W-TKO-6 Sharmba Mitchell
W-UD-12 Zab Judah
W-UD-12 Carlos Baldomir
W-TKO-10 Ricky Hatton
W-UD-12 Juan Manuel Marquez
Clottey and Shane > Hatton and JMM, and they both beat Judah after Baldomir had already messed him up. Frankly Quintana is a more impressive W than Baldomir.
Bad Left Hook
"Well Howie, I think I'm going to stay outside and outjab him." -- Tex Cobb telling Howard Cosell how he would approach Larry Holmes
by Scott Christ on Sep 22, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
But if Williams beats Pavlik a month later, that would leapfrog him over Cotto in my view.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Maybe it’s just me being stupid, but I think it’s a little premature to put Pretty Boy Floyd into the #1 slot based on one fight against a lightweight. He’s been away for a looooong time and while the destruction of JMM showed he’s still good, it’s not proof enough of him still being as good as he was before his hiatus. I have no issue of him being in the top 10, but let’s have him fight someone else – preferably someone from his own weight class – before elevating him back to the #1 spot.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Sep 23, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Manny Will Dominate
Anyone out there? Think cotto will win against pacquiao? I think manny will win against cotto lets see and I prove to you all that ur wrong on November 14..And lets see if mayweather will win against pacquiao, manny has heart and a big heart but mayweather big mouth and trash talk.hehehe Manny will regain his spot as true number one pound for pound..
Sports Instead Of War, Peace to All...
8. Hozumi Hasegawa (Bantamweight)
Yeah, he looks great in his wins, but he hasn’t beaten anyone of significance. I’m curious how you can overlook this about him, Scott. Are you giving him “style points” here?
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

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