Fighters who seemed to have lost it after winning a tough fight
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 27, 2010 5:50 PM EST
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PrintFor example, Harry Arroyo became one of the most recognizable boxers on television and regularly appeared on the covers of boxing magazines in the 80‘s. In 1984, Arroyo, with fellow Youngstown native Ray Mancini, was listed among the nation's top 10 contenders by the World Boxing Association. When he beat Terrance Alli in 1985 in a savage and punishing affair, he was 25-0. He then went 14-11 to finish with a 40-11 mark. Against Alli, he won the war but lost the battle.
Can you name any?
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This should have read: fighters who were never the same after a tough win.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 27, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions
I think Mancini can be thrown into this category as well
although tough for a different reason than I think you’re looking for.
Serguei Lyakhovich is one. Both he and Brewster became shells of their former serves after that fight.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah, the Kim fight destroyed him mentally IMO.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 27, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, in a roundabout way, it does.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
as for Mancini
Jesus Chavez is in the same boat.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 28, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
In fact, with few exceptions, those who have won in a fight that ended tragically usually were never the same. Indeed, I can even think of a few who won their fight and then dies shortly after of injuries sustained in the fight. Choi, for example.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Max Baer seemed to do alright
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He did...
But a lot of what I’ve read says he totally lost his taste for the sport after that, and never acheived the potential of his physical gifts. I think there are several quotes by him about not liking boxing at all, but I don’t know if that was his mindset before the tragedy or not.
by thefightnut.com on Jan 29, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yogi Rambler
There are exceptions and I know who they are, but they are few in numnber so that’s why I probably know who they are.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
David Gonzalez is one.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 30, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Lyakhovich is a great call
That was really a great, great fight.
by thefightnut.com on Jan 29, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 27, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Benn
after the McClellan war.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Great one!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Jesus Chavez after the tragic Levander Johnson fight.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions
Whoopps, SC already got this one.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Macho Camacho Sr after barely beating Edwin Rosario. I belive that fight changed his style from offensive to defensive.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 2:33 PM EST reply actions
Yes
Rosario hurt Hector bad, nearly had him out. Definitely took some of the macho outta Camacho.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
How about Junior after his NC with Leja?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Midnight Rambler..
How about a little credit, either for this topic or this example? Ha, just kidding, thanks for posting it.
by thefightnut.com on Jan 29, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
There is only one winner of this for me, seriously.
Chris Eubank, after the Michael Watson fight, transformed from a vicious, hard hitting nasty bastard into a guy that wanted to impress with speed and flair without ever actually hurting someone.
Boxing lost two great fighters after that fight.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Arroyo finished ugly.
Yes…… Harold Arroyo was at the top of the 135 lb. charts after hammering Terry Alli in 1985……. I somehow managed to MISS that fight and I still do NOT have a copy on file since ESPN classics seems fit to ignore that fight altogether…….. ESPN loves to play / replay all this Modern stuff like: “Corrales, Juan Diaz, Joel Casamayor & Jose Castillo” fights that were good and exciting, but hardly classic just yet…….. I’m a little fed up there……….
Yeah……………. Arroyo went to hell after losing his title to James Paul….. Harry Arroyo was never the same after losing the IBF title…… He became a win some / lose some fighter…… And, Jimmy Paul was a choker as well…… He blew his title to Gregory Haugen in Dec. 1986 and became a steppingstone afterward…….. GEEZ!!
OH!!!! Johnny “Bum City” Bumphus fell to pieces after losing his WBA title to Eugene Hatcher on national TV in 1984…….. Last I saw of Bumphus he looked a fool against Lloyd Honeyghan in getting iced inside 2 or 3 rds…..
MR.BILL
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
I have it covered in my first book.I know Harry a bit and a nicer guy you will never meet.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Are you sure that Bumphus-Hatcher fight was on TV
I think it was on the undercard of Bramble-Mancini 1. Which I’m pretty sure was not on TV, as it was in my hometown of Buffalo. I was a young kid, and my father didn’t take me, but went with my Uncles. Nonetheless, going to see all the fighters in open training prior to the bout made me a lifelong boxing fan.
by thefightnut.com on Feb 5, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it definitly was on TV. I remember Mancini-Bramble 1 and 2. I thought Ray got stiffed in two. Hatcher shoked the boxing world.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 7, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Roy Jones
After beating Tarver by MD in their first fight. Never been the same since.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
I think that was a symptom though, not the cause
Because of Jones’ style, he was bound to not age gracefully. Guys who rely on reflexes don’t do as well once the reflexes start to go, and that’s around when they started to go. Moving up to heavyweight and coming back down only accelerated that process.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Maybe even after beating Ruiz.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 7:45 PM EST reply actions
You mean monster wrenches, mate.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 8:24 PM EST reply actions
Riddick Bowe is one of the embodiments of this post title, after his two “wins” over Andrew Golota, he was slurring his speech and never should’ve gone in a ring again. Even with his win in the 3rd fight with Holyfield, the guy ate alot of flush shots, and with the way he abused and yo yoed his body, that stuff adds up.
Bowe jumps to mind
I agree about bowe, but what jumped to my mind was, it was after his first fight with the lab created Holyfield that ruined him. I know he won a few in a row after that, but I believe it greatly shortened his career and quality of career. Human beings are just not designed to take that much punishment.
Have you got any proof that Holyfield was juicing?
Is this common knowledge that I’ve somehow missed?
Because I’m seeing this stuff about Holyfield more and more, and I’ve not really seen it before.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
There’s a section of his Wikipedia article that discusses these allegations, with links to press reports. All the evidence is from the more recent stage of his career, not from his prime years, although it still naturally raises suspicions of course.
But if he was juicing , how could he be the father of 175 chiulldren?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 8, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
A lot of signs pointed to him using HGH
At least in the later part of his career, due to an investigation that led to the shutdown of a number of anti-aging clinics (and their distributors) in the southeast. One of the customers’ names was “Evan Fields”, and some investigative journalism was able to make a pretty strong case that Evan Fields was Evander Holyfield, but no official action was ever taken against him. The investigation was to get the suppliers, not the buyers, and by that time Holyfield was already suspended from fighting in the US for other reasons.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Wow.
I did not know that.
So HGH is an anti-aging remedy too, then?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I’d like some of that myself.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 10, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
what about fighters that never really had “it” to begin with and put it all together for one big win and quickly went back into obscurity after scoring the upset? I could name plenty of those.
Lonnie Smith?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 28, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Buster for sure.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
You were thinkg right.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
Michael Bennt? Bentt? How the fuck do you spell the guy's surname?
The guy who railed Morrison in short order, anyway…..
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
He lost it after losing to Herbie Hide
brain bleed after from the Hide bout, couldn’t fight again.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Shame.
He was ferocious in the Morrison fight. Like, really nasty. Without checking his record, I don’t know exactly how big he was, but I remember thinking that maybe he would have been better off as a cruiser?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Don King walked over Bentt’s body to congratulate Hide. Nice!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 7, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Izzy Vasquez.
Though the verdict is still out for me until I see him fight next.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
CUEVAS
Pipino Cuevas after Thomas Hearns iced him in 2, he was never close to the same. Peace!!
Si, muy bueno.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions
Meldrick Taylor
of course after Chavez savaged him; conversely, Chavez took a beating in that fight as well, but went on for years after. Another who fits this “opposite” category—took a beating but moved right on was Lamotta after the St. Valentine’s beat down.
Excellent!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Mesi
following his fight with Jirov. He didn’t go on to lose but never found himslef in a tough bout since then.
Yep. Jirov scrambled poor Joe’s brains in that one, Brutal neck-snapping shots.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 29, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't Jirov make a return recently?
How did that go?
Also, Michelewski made a comeback too, or so I thought?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Not Dariuz.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 1, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
He was talking about it
IIRC, there were talks of one of those old fart rematches between Tiger and Rocky, but nothing ever came of it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Michelewski is done.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 7, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
So is Rocky, but that hasn't kept him from talking about coming back for a fight or two
Not that I enjoy retired 45 year olds taking beatings because they need the money.
In a perfect world, Rocchigiani would be $32 million dollars richer and the WBC wouldn’t exist anymore. His settlement allowed them to survive.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Now Brian Neilsen is talking about fighting Holyfield. The freak show continues.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 9, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jirov recently TKOd someone.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 7, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
'Dempsey' starring Treat Williams from '83..
I’m kickin’ back reviewing my old tape of ‘Dempsey’ that starred Treat Williams in the made for TV film that was released the year Jack dempsey croaked…. Treat Williams and sam Waterston did a decent job as “Dempsey and Doc Kearns.” Of course this film could’ve been made better, but I still like it and, its all we got… Hollywood doesn’t seem interested to do a modern film with a higher budget any time soon….. What a shame….
MR.BILL
Note:
That also applies to ‘Jack Johnson’ too………. Hollywood needs to do a modern film with a good budget based on his life, as well……..
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Good boxing films are rare. Aside from “The Harder they Fall” and “Raging Bull,” you have to really hunt and peck.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 30, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Midnight Sting... (a.k.a Diggstown, or Diggsville, or something... God my brains are fried today.....)
I know it’s not a ‘boxing’ film per se, but it’s still entertaining, even if it is mainly bollocks.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
James Woods?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 1, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104107/
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Frazier after the Fight Of The Century
You could even draw a long bow and say Joe Frazier was never the same after his winning effort in the first Ali fight . Joe never had the same speed , fitness and youthful look as a fighter again after that fight . He was rumoured to be in hospital for 2 weeks after . He didnt look the same fighter against Ron Stander , Terry Daniels or Foreman . Did You blokes see Russel Crowe as Braddock? I havent bothered getting off my arse and renting the dvd yet. Should I bother ? Cheers Bill , Ted .
Yes, Crowe plays a great Braddock. Low key and cool as usual. Get it!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 30, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Cinderella Man is excellent.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 30, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Fairly unfair portrayal of Baer though
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 31, 2010 6:27 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 31, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
It was more than unfair, at least from what I understand.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 31, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Rather than fairly unfair...
I would say maliciously libelous. I could understand if there was some conflicting opinion on Baer’s character, but the evidence clearly shows that he was quite the opposite of what he was portrayed. Everyone knows he was a gentle guy outside the ring who’s heart was never really in the fight game, especially after a couple of his fights ended tragically.
It’s not like a Julius Caesar biopic or something, where a guy’s personality or character is a best guess, and a matter of conjecture.
Brutally dishonest, and knowing it really affected my enjoyment of the film.
by thefightnut.com on Feb 5, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe an argument could be made for Hatton after Collazo……
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 31, 2010 2:49 PM EST reply actions
I think I might agree with that one. He was still good, but just was not the same as he was before. I think it might have been coincidence and age/wear-and-tear more than anything, but Hatton post-Collazo was not the same as Hatton pre-Collazo for sure. I think he got his confidence shaken a little bit.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 31, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
His aura of invincibilty jad been pierced.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 31, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a good call
and it still remains to be seen, but Collazo may have done the same to Berto.
by thefightnut.com on Feb 5, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
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