James Toney wants to fight in UFC
by SC on Jan 4, 2010 1:12 AM EST
in News Analysis
31 comments
41-year-old heavyweight fringe contender and formerly great fighter James "Lights Out" Toney seems to have run out of possibly interesting fights in boxing, though to hear Toney tell it, he's being ducked by everyone in boxing, including the -- as he puts it -- "Klitschko sisters," who are both afraid of him.
With that in mind, Toney and UFC promoter Dana White exchanged words at the UFC 108 post-fight press conference, with Toney saying he's ready to come in and fight in the UFC.
Ariel Helwani of FanHouse and Joe Ferraro of Rogers SportsNet were there for the verbal action:
A key quote from Dana White, who is either attempting to sell Toney to a non-boxing audience that doesn't know any better, or is, well, "promoting":
"Of all the guys they've tried to bring from boxing, either guy who were shot or too old. James Toney is the real deal," White told Rogers SportsNet's Joe Ferraro. "He's a nasty, mean dude. We're going to sit down and talk tonight."
Toney is of course rather old, and looked quite poor in his last major (loosely used term) fight against Fres Oquendo in December 2008. He did return leaner than he's been in years in September against Matthew Greer (12-6, 11 KO) and stopped Greer in two. I don't doubt Toney's ambition, but I wouldn't say I'd like his chances against anyone good.
HT: Bloody Elbow
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If he comes in to fight someone like Kimbo, then yeah I would love to see that just because it would be nice to see Toney starch him with those MMA gloves. As soon as Dana White saw that Kimbo brought ratings, then why not keep his new ratings-cow fighting guys that aren’t experienced/multi-faceted…
Anyone else would smash him in the HW division, but if he can get a fight against a smaller HW then yeah why not?
Hustler for Death, No Heaven for a Gangster
Ray Mercer KO’d former UFC HW champ Tim Sylvia and Ray’s more past it than Toney. James would still fcuk someone up with those 4 oz MMA gloves, especially dudes slow on their feet who come in wide open. He actually came in at 217 for his last fight so he’s better off cutting down to the 205 LHW div, depends how serious he is. He’ll probably disrespect the whole thing and come in way too heavy but hey. MMA’s a different beast altogether, good boxing skills will only get you so far, one quick head kick can mess anyone up.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
While I cannot dispute the facts… Mercer was always a big puncher… and Sylvia weighed in 50 pounds heavier than he ever did in the UFC showing that he did not train for the fight at all.
A big punching boxer always has a shot, but without years and years of wrestling and/or jiu-jitsu training, it will never be more than that.
by KyleAskine on Jan 4, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Toney isn't exactly a big puncher
It’s just common sense though. Any single discipline fighter will have disadvantages against someone who’s well-rounded when anything goes, but the single discipline fighter will have the advantage against someone in that discipline.
I haven’t held back in saying I think Toney should have retired years ago, and I hope he can’t get any more major fights. The man’s extremely shot and punch drunk.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
"The man’s extremely shot and punch drunk." - yup.
If Toney fought it would be nothing more than a money-making gimmick for Dana. And more ammo for either those anti-boxing mma fans if Toney gets subbed fast or those anti-mma boxing fans if Toney lands a KO punch. Hopefully it never happens.
by Mr. Reynolds on Jan 4, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Mercer-Sylvia happened outside UFC – and judging by how bloated Tim was in that fight, he didn’t perhaps take it as seriously as he should have. However, Toney is thinking about coming in the UFC – on his boxing alone. Never mind head kick – although a good kickboxer could and would use that – but Toney would get taken down and murdered on the ground.
Irrelevent
James is irrelevent at the TOP of boxings H/W division, I have no problem with him making some money in MMA. If he goes down to 205 he could make a little noise, IF hes matched right, but I don’t see him training like he should,..why would he start now. Peace!!
Stick To What You Know
I would imagine that as soon as he got in there with a respectable mixed martial artist fighter who knew wrestling and jui jitsu,he would get taken down to the ground and submitted or stopped.It’s a bit disrespectful and arrogant for a boxer to think he could just walk into an MMA ring and be successful.Boxing is my no.1 sport as a fan but i like MMA too and they are two different sports.Them guys have been training and fighting for years at what they do.Suddenly a fat and out of shape Toney is gonna come in and show them how to fight?In a boxing ring,maybe(though maybe not as he’s shot anyway),but the octagon is a totally different place.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Jan 4, 2010 8:44 AM EST reply actions
Toney would get pulverized in an MMA fight.
He’d have to learn some basic takedown defense for about a year before he’d have a chance. If he didn’t, then someone like Kimbo could just take him down (did anyone here see the beaUTiful slam Slice put on Alexander?) and once on his back, he’d be so much chopped liver.
I’m also not convinced that a boxer would do as much damage with the little gloves as so many people believe. MMA striking is wide-open for a reason, there’s a lot more power generated when you open up your stance, spread your feet and wing a massive overhand right compared to firing pepper shots that pro boxers use 95% of the time. Also at play is the fact that MMA gloves provide ZERO protection when used as earmuffs or in any kind of defensive stance. There’s simply not enough area to create an effective shield. This is the main reason most fighters hold the hands low in MMA, the secondary reason being to assist with takedown defense.
I’m not knocking boxing one iota: they’re the superior strikers technically and they know a whale of a lot more about hand-striking than any other fighters on the planet, but mixing what they know into a reasonably effective MMA game is a lot harder than most people think.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Kimbo Slice is a poor example,imo.He is below average at every aspect of the game.My money would be on JT if they put him in with Kimbo.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Jan 4, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Kimbo is very popular but can’t fight.Not at a professional level anyway.Maybe he would be a good first opponent for James though and the fight would definitely sell,i think,but Kimbo is very limited as an MMA fighter.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Jan 4, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I understand just how awful Kimbo is,
which is why I put him up as an example of who would beat Toney. Toney would have a reasonable chance to punch him out before Slice got a hold of him, but once Kimbo put the mitts on him, game over.
A guy like Jon Fitch would absolutely terrorize and demolish Toney. And he fights at 170lbs.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Fitch would demolish Toney, true – hell, a top ten lightweight (Penn, Florian, Sanchez…) would beat him. Those guys regularly train against heavier opponents and they’d beat Toney on tempo alone, if nothing else.
Plus, if there's someone who has a horrible style to convert to MMA
it’s James Toney. Dude doesn’t move his feet. He relies on heavy upper body movement to avoid punches. He’d get taken down very quickly and easily.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He has a chance if they trade
If someone wants to trade with Toney, he has a good chance at winning. It’s over as soon as they take him to the ground.
A ground game is not something you become good at overnight.
MMA must be the new show
business for fighters; many retired to some kind of show business in the past, now MMA.
Like old cowboys going joining the circus
"I'm not God - but I am something similar", Roberto Duran
by FCF on Jan 4, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
re toney
good i want him and aand a few others to get out of the game now (HOLYFIELD INCLUDED)Toney is a disgrace to boxing ..A few years he was slim and awesome,,now he is fat and old..
Disgrazio!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Jan 4, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions
In General
The only boxers that you are going to see wanting to go to MMA are all going to be shot, because if they weren’t shot they would stay in boxing, because the money is much better for boxing headliners than MMA headliners (although the undercard is a different story).
This has got to be a joke. The whole confrontation is really pretty funny. But if any pro boxer has a decent shot at making the transition to MMA, it would be Kermit Cintron. He has a wrestling background, and he’s still in prime age and condition for a combat athlete. If he spent some time with a successful boxer who has gone into MMA, like Chris Lytle, he might do pretty well.
Kermit Cintron
Couple years as a high school wrestler doesn’t mean anything.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
It means that takedown defense would come more instinctively to him than to others
And he was a college wrestler IIRC
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
It's one thing to sprawl, it's a whole nother bag of tricks on how to make it work to your advantage.
And he’s high school. Wisconsin and Ohio St. offered scholarships but he got hurt before he could capitalize.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Also
Anyone who is good at just ONE discipline,be it boxing,wrestling,muay thai,BJJ usually fails to reach the top in MMA.It is well known by those who know much more than me about the sport that you need to be well rounded and excel in at least 2-3 disciplines(thats why its called Mixed Martial Arts:)) to be successful at the top level,which at the moment is the UFC.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Jan 5, 2010 9:46 AM EST reply actions
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