Bad Left Hook Best of the Decade - Welterweight
Now that 2009 has wrapped up, we can take a look at the best of the decade that just was. This is the last of the individual weight classes, and we'll also do fighter, fight and knockout of the decade.
When voting, please only consider the time that the fighter was in the specified weight class during this decade. Also, I'm not going to count obvious ballot stuffing when I tally these up in a couple weeks.
Welterweight was quite possibly the strongest weight class throughout the decade, and thus it has been saved for last. Not only was the weight class strong, but the top fighters mostly fought each other, meaning that few were able to come out completely unscathed.
Carlos Baldomir - Baldomir went 8-2-2 in the weight class in the decade, including a stint when he was the lineal champion after surprisingly defeating Zab Judah. Although his record was pedestrian, he ran off an eight year long undefeated streak, although some of it was at 154 and some of it was in the 1990's. Key wins included Judah, Arturo Gatti, Miki Rodriguez, Alpaslan Aguzum (twice) and Hasan Al. The losses came to Floyd Mayweather Jr. in a drubbing and Jackson Bonsu, and the draws came against Jose Luis Cruz and Hasan Al.
Miguel Cotto - Cotto went 7-2 at 147 during the decade, with each fight being a title bout and seven of the fights coming against current, past or future titlists. His key wins include Shane Mosley, Joshua Clottey, Zab Judah, Carlos Quintana and Oktay Urkal. The losses came to Antonio Margarito (in a fight that is still shrouded by questions about whether Margarito cheated), and a much more clear loss to Manny Pacquiao.
Vernon Forrest - Forrest went 4-2 at the weight in the decade, but early on, he seemed like quite the person to overcome. Most famously, he holds back to back victories over Shane Mosley, and then subsequently lost twice in a row to Ricardo Mayorga. The other two wins came against Vince Phillips and Raul Frank.
Antonio Margarito - Margarito went 14-2 in the weight class in the decade. On paper, his record is as good as anyone's at this time - his best wins came over Miguel Cotto, Joshua Clottey, Kermit Cintron (twice), Sergio Martinez, Golden Johnson, Sebastian Lujan, Hercules Kyvelos, Antonio Diaz, Andrew "Six Heads" Lewis and Frankie Randall, and his only two losses came to Shane Mosley and Paul Williams, who are also on this list. That said, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that there are questions as to the level at which Margarito cheated through the decade. Before his last fight (against Mosley), he was caught with illegal hand wraps that contained "elements of plaster." We'll never really know how often he used this type of wrap, or whether the wraps actually had any real effect. Still, his wins are shrouded by uncertainty. If he can come back, we may have a better idea of whether his wins were for real or if his power came from cheating as much as from his fists.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Mayweather has gone 5-0 in the weight class, with each of his victories being dominant, but none of his victories coming over the real cream of the crop in the weight class. His best wins came against lineal champion Carlos Baldomir, former lineal champion Zab Judah, light welterweight champ Ricky Hatton, #2 pound for pound fighter Juan Manuel Marquez and former titlist Sharmba Mitchell. As impressive as this sounds, there are huge holes that can be poked through this resume - Baldomir was clearly a more rudimentary fighter who hasn't done well since fighting Mayweather. Judah was coming off a loss and has lost twice since the Mayweather fight. Hatton was fighting at a weight where he'd already looked poor in the past. Marquez was a natural 130 pound fighter forced to blow up for the fight. Baldomir is the only natural welterweight that Mayweather has faced. Still, the dominant nature of his victories ensures that he has a spot here, and that he'll probably pick up quite a few votes.
Shane Mosley - Sugar Shane went 9-3 in the decade at the weight, although several of his more prominent fights came at 154 or were outside of the decade. Key victories include a controversial win over Oscar de la Hoya (the rematch was at 154), Antonio Margarito, Luis Collazo, Antonio Diaz, Jose Luis Cruz, David Estrada and Shannan Taylor. The losses came to Vernon Forrest (twice) and Miguel Cotto. Mosley also admitted to using EPO before the de la Hoya fight.
Manny Pacquiao - Pacman only went 2-0 in the weight class, but his place on this list comes on the strength of a single victory. Miguel Cotto had only lost once previously while facing the best competition out there, and that loss came under questionable circumstances in a fight Cotto would have won had it gone to the cards. Pacquiao left no doubt, battering and beating Cotto after four closer rounds. His other win came over a weight-drained Oscar de la Hoya, who hadn't been at a weight that low in nearly a decade. While it was a remarkable accomplishment at the time (Pacquaio was still a heavy underdog), it doesn't seem quite as impressive in retrospect, as Oscar clearly didn't look like he was all there for the fight. I will count votes for Pacquiao in the comments, although he is not in the poll. If you wish to vote for Pacquiao, put his name in the heading of your comment.
Cory Spinks - Spinks went 9-2 in the weight class, unified three of the belts and created a lineage in the weight class. His best wins came over Ricardo Mayorga, Zab Judah, Miki Gonzalez, Michele Piccirillo and Larry Marks. His losses came to two fighters he also beat, Judah and Piccirillo.
Paul Williams - Williams went 7-1 at the weight, with his notable wins coming over Antonio Margarito, Carlos Quintana and Sharmba Mitchell. The loss came to Carlos Quintana, which he avenged. While his actual record isn't that spectacular, he might have been a stylistic nightmare for almost anyone on the list, with an absurd 81 inch reach in a weight class where most guys have a reach in the high 60's or low 70's.
Others for consideration: Ricardo Mayorga, Zab Judah, Andre Berto, Joshua Clottey, Luis Collazo, Carlos Quintana
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I'm really torn on this one
Before Cotto lost to Pacquiao, I think he was a no-brainer. On paper, I think Margarito has the best record, followed by Cotto then Mosley. In the ring, I think Mayweather was best, followed by Williams and Cotto/Mosley. And then on top of it, Margarito and Mosley probably both cheated in getting their best wins, Margarito doing it in a way that disqualifies him completely in my mind.
In the end, I’m going with Floyd. His resume kind of stinks at 147, but I think he beats everyone at the weight pretty easily other than maybe Williams, and his resume outshines Williams’ resume.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Williams beat Margarito.
That wasn’t his only good win at 147, but that on its own pisses on Floyd’s resume at the weight.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Good Article,Ted.
Very interesting division this one.I can see how some could vote for Wiliams,Cotto,Mosley or Margarito.Iv’e got to go with Floyd though as i think he can/will beat them all if and when he wants to start taking meaningful fights again.
Ted didn't write this
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Just Brickhaus
I prefer to remain anonymous for work-related reasons.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That sounds cool
I am now going to imagine that you are a spy.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 4, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it seems that some BadLeftHookers have been confused
Since there have been other contributors, hahah.
They’ll say, “good article, Ted”, or “SC”, or “Brickhaus”, when they’re not the authors (and sometimes, even on featured fanposts). =)
I more thought it was just new ESB people
not really sure of who was who.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 5, 2010 6:04 AM EST up reply actions
Margarito is not worthy.
Actually i take that back about ‘Cheato’.His accomplishments are forever tarnished now.
went with Floyd
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Damn this is tough so many variables to weigh, floyd was probably the best welterweight of the decade but his resume is so soft it really is hard to give it to him and when you look at all the dudes Margaritio tore threw and his long reign as a champion its hard not to vote for him but then theres that ugly cloud that resides over him, but in the end i went with Cotto his willingness to fight just about anyone and and beating most of them, all his opposition were world class fighters and and his two losses were to a guy who could have been cheating and to Manny who was the fighter of the decade but did most of his work in the lower weights.
agreed
went with Cotto for very similar reasons, just on the basis of his resume rather than how he would hypothetically match up (which is not well with Floyd and especially Williams)
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Nobody voted for Baldomir? But he was the lineal champ!
by taco pal on Jan 4, 2010 3:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
RIP Miguel Cotto Sr
I went with Miguel – I think the victory over Shane Mosley is a very strong one (particularly after Shane’s subsequent destruction of Margarito), as is the victory over Clottey (I scored it a narrow 114-113 Cotto). The Margarito loss is forever shrouded in controversy, and I think by the time he fought Manny, a lot had been taken out of him (Margarito, Clottey, possibly weight) and he was coming up against an absolute phenom. I think strong arguments can also be made for Floyd and Sugar Shane; Margarito has undoubtedly the best resume, but he’s forever tainted and frankly doesn’t deserve any award. Definitely the toughest weight division to decide on.
Went with Mosley
Two reasons: he has been around the top of the welterweight division for pretty much the whole decade and has big wins on both sides of it. I didn’t factor in the EPO issue because it was at 154, but his loss to Cotto was absolutely Cotto’s best fight and the Forrest losses are also what Forrest will be remembered by. Cotto’s reign on top was too short, Floyd’s too flawed, Margarito’s too tainted, and Williams will never fight at 147 again (because nobody will fight him there, for good reason). Didn’t even consider Baldomir or Spinks.
This pretty much sums up my thinking as well.
After considerable deliberation, I went with Mosley.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I voted for Mayweather
but with great misgivings. He is massively skilled and would probably beat all the people on that list head to head but his resume, to be quite frank, is pants. I would of gone with Cotto if he hadn’t lost to Pacquiao and didn’t think Pacquiao deserved it with only two wins.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
Cotto.
I had to go with Cotto for the competition he faced at this level, and, of course, the number of successful championship defenses he had before losing to Pacquiao. That gave him a slight edge over Mayweather, to me, since Mayweather’s 147 resume is a little weak. I do think Mayweather could beat, and convincingly, Cotto at 147. However, this is a poll on who was best in the past decade for what they’ve done in the ring…and Cotto wins that battle.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
Just got to say;
In your summation of Pacquiao, you mention that Cotto would have won the fight against Toni had it gone to the cards.
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:1281966
I had Cotto ahead personally, but the judges had it in favour of Margarito (x2) and a draw (x1) through R10. The 2 KDs in R11 would have meant it was Cotto that needed the KO in R12, not Margarito.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
What defines the best...(Floyd edges it)
I am going to factor in a few elements to my choice.
1. The record at Welterweight
2. The quality of opponents faced at Welterweight
3. The quality of opposition defeated at Welterweight
4. The prominence of the fighter at Welterweight
Holes can be picked in all fighters careers but for me it boils down to three. Mayweather, Cotto, Mosely – in order . Mayweather was ultimately undefeated at the weight, and dominated his fights. He is the man to beat. Cotto would definitely be number one if he had beaten Pacman, but he was smashed up. Mosley has always been a prominent Welterweight, he’s been toe-to-toe in some great, close fights (like the Cotto fight) and his performances against Collazo and Margarito were outstanding.
Do I even need to point this out?
I’m sure others would do that, but I’ll say it anyway.
He is undefeated, and the man to beat. But how can he be beaten if he hasn’t faced the guys that at least have a chance of beating him!?
Show me an undefeated fighter and I'll show you someone
who has never fought anyone. It’s true; being undefeated is no impressive factor in this case.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
Not in all cases;
Hatton pre-Mayweather (had fought some really good fighters)
Rocky Marciano
Joe Calzaghe (I hate the twat, but there’s no arguing he did fight some good fighters)
Could even go as far as Andre Ward now he’s beaten Kessler…..
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Well it's a loose statement really
It refers more to great opposition than to good opposition.
I can name a list of great fighters who have fought great opposition and have losses.
Ali
Foreman
Frazier (see what i did there?)
Pacquiao
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
Hopkins
Dempsey
Liston
Patterson
Robinson
It’s not a definitive statement by any means but all of our great boxers, with the exception of a very small few, have losses.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure how Floyd
edges it based on the criteria you set out—especially “quality” faced and defeated.
by Don From Prov on Jan 5, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Flak
is prolly what I’m gonna be taken for sayin this but i voted for Margarito, I’m not certain his hands were ever illegally wrapped prior to the Mosley fight. Its hard to believe that no other fighters cornerman, who no doubt were present to witness AMs hands being wrapped missed any tampering. I do KNOW that Mosley used PEDs cause he admitted it, if I convict AM for something that can’t be proved, I’d be in the same boat with the people who have convicted Pac already. I’d rather drown. Mayweather refuses to fight the top at welter, so he don’t qualify, cause I refuse to annoint someone based on what he MIGHT be able to do. Margo would fight anyone. Peace!!
You will get flak;
but I agree with some (not all) of what you say.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I went for Williams.
The guy had one off night in his career to date.
He beat Margarito, who would have probably been in my top 3, and who beat Cotto, the other member of my top 3.
I refuse whole-heartedly and with a completely clear conscience to even consider Floyd. Beating up on B-level fighters and smaller guys does not put you at the top of the class in my eyes. As Iron Beach has said, I refuse to judge a fighter on what he could have done, instead I’ll pick based on what guys actually did do.
Besides which, H2H I think Williams would have stomped all over Floyd. Of course we’ll never know, because Floyd doesn’t fight people he thinks could beat him.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
H2H Mosley / Williams each at their decade’s best at 147 would be a tough fight to call, but I would pick Shane, myself. At 154, you have to go with Williams though, so these guys are pretty close, imho.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I like Shane a lot in both of those fights. Shane’s got underrated power of late, KO of Margo, and if the counter-punching style of Sergio was giving Williams trouble, I think Shane could get that on lock-down. Also Williams feeling the power of Sergio at 160, makes me really question chin integrity.
by Waldo Rastel on Jan 6, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Sergio is really not a big puncher and that first round knockdown really hurt Williams. It was a big shot and thrown nearly perfectly but Martinez’s KO rate is only 50% so I agree about Williams’s possible chinyness.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 6, 2010 4:44 AM EST up reply actions
Putting on flame retardent suit
I love Mosely at welter but I voted for Spinks I think he was the best when only looking at welterweight fights in the 00’s
Bruce Seldon > Ali
LOL
You must be a sucker for punishment!!
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)

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