Top Rank says Manny Pacquiao-Joshua Clottey is on for March 13
by Scott Christ on Jan 7, 2010 9:51 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
101 comments
Top Rank has announced on their Facebook page that Manny Pacquiao will defend the WBO welterweight title on March 13 against Joshua Clottey. We talked about that earlier but it seemed most of us were skeptical it could happen. Apparently, it's going to.
Clottey is a tough stylistic matchup for anyone, and Pacquiao will be facing a real, live welterweight again for sure. Clottey is no joke. As Floyd Mayweather Sr. himself once put it, "Joshua Clottey ain't nothin' to f**k with."
I'm not sure if that March 13 date is correct or a typo. All reports are that Mayweather has retained the March 13 date at the MGM Grand, and that Pacquiao would fight on March 20, likely at the Thomas & Mack Center.
Pacquiao-Clottey is really about as good of a March fight as Pacquiao was going to get with the Mayweather negotiations falling apart. The other two top welterweights besides Pacquiao, Mayweather, Clottey, and Miguel Cotto are fighting each other on January 30 (Shane Mosley and Andre Berto), and would surely not be ready by March for another fight. Pacquiao is running for office in the Philippines in May, meaning he won't be available to fight again after March until this fall, most likely.
Clottey (35-3, 20 KO) will get another chance to break into the very, very elite of the sport. He lost a tough decision to Antonio Margarito back in 2006, and lost a rough, back-and-forth battle with Miguel Cotto in June. His first loss was a 1999 disqualification against former welterweight champion Carlos Baldomir.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 7, 2010 9:33 PM EST reply actions
Hmmm this one I might order
Maybe arum is going to force hbo to choose by offering a better fight than pbfm
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jan 7, 2010 9:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This is great!
Manny taking on another good fighter and not just some can. Tons of respect for fighting a guy most would duck
by ryanwk628 on Jan 7, 2010 9:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Thumbs Up
If Pac plans to keep dominating the welterweight class and cementing his position as one of the all-time greats in it, Clottey is a perfect pick as his next opponent. He already beat one of the current best in Miguel Cotto, and Mosley + Berto are busy fighting each other. While Pacquiao might not be considered the best of this era until he fights Mayweather, he certainly is doing the best he can to not appear like he’s ducking tough opposition.
This is funny as hell.
In 3 fights at welter, Manny Pacquaio will have fought 2 better fighters than ANYONE Floyd has faced at welter.
Who is the best fighter Floyd has faced at welter? Judah? Baldomir?
Manny will have fought Cotto and Clottey by mid-March, either of whom piss all over Floyd’s best win.
Yeah, Floyd, you really are the greatest fighter in the sport. Ivan Calderon is still waiting for you, Floyd. Remember, he called you out, just like Marquez did…..
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
by Chaos100 on Jan 7, 2010 9:50 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
It’s easy to look back and make those statements. I remember several authorities picking Baldomir including Manny Stewart.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
It is called hyping the fight…
Burt Sugar said that too, he also said that about Marquez when he faced Mayweather…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
During the fight dude
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Yeah…and he also said that Pavlik is not used to fighting at a fast pace vs Taylor and that was during the fight. What is your point?
There was a reason why he was such a huge favorite vs Baldomir…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I think you lost track of your point. I said Stewart picked Baldomir. You said he was hyping the fight. The point is why would you need to hype a PPV in the first round? He wasn’t hyping the fight as you say, he really believed it until Mayweather made him look like he was fighting in slow motion
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
There was a countdown should for the PPV…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Hehe Steward seems
to say that in the first three rounds of every single fight he commentates. It’s actually funny because I now wait for it to come up and it always does.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
So you disagree?
Would you pick Judah or Baldomir over Cotto or Clottey?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
No
But Judah did rock Cotto real nice a few times early in the fight. If he had any stamina or a late game… who knows.
The point is, at the time of those fights, they were seen as good match-ups, especially the Judah fight because of his speed and power in that left uppercut. I just think that it is too easy to second guess a guys opponents after he exposed them. There was a lot of excitement for the Corales fight but he got exposed too.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Corrales didn't really get exposed
Boxers get exposed by journeymen not people as good at Mayweather.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
I see your point.
but the best fighter either one of them has faced above their natural weight divisionis Floyd’s fight against DLH at 154.
No way.
Manny’s win over Cotto beats that all day.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Agreed
Mayweather’s win of Oscar was good but the win of Cotto was a massive achievement.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
Not shabby at all
While I think he should just agree to the blood testing if the Mayweather camp is indeed being truthful and would allow a 15 day cap on it, if this cannot happen, this is a good matchup. I’d have preferred Bradley. If Mayweather fights Paulie it’s yet another instance of Manny taking tough fights and Floyd taking fights that he can’t get hurt in…. PED or not.
Solid choice of replacement
Not the most exciting fight in the world, but Clottey is legit for sure.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I think that people who are exciting
in turn make Clottey quite exciting. I reckon this will be very fun to watch.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sticking to my boycott. Both fighters could have made the fight happen.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Solid Choice
It is great that he doesn’t have to gain more weight to fight Yuri. I feel it could be negative on the body to yoyo up and down in weight. Fighting Clottey he can stay at the weight he last fought at and be more comfortable.
Who is Florence Mayweather Jr fighting? Which top 3 light-weight will fight this time? haha PU$$Y
SPEED, ACCURACY, HEART = DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE
this has got to be a bad joke. Is Pacquiao really about to do this? We’re negotiating the biggest money fight in boxing history and Manny decides to pull this?? On a day when Floyd said the fight would happen with a 14 day time frame for the blood test?? Who’s ducking who here? WTF is Manny doing???
by The Autumn Wind on Jan 7, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions
I know the concept of fighting a legit welterweight is foreign to some…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Jan 7, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
silly. Floyd wants to fight Manny. Apparently, Manny does not want to fight Floyd. I really hope Clottey demands a blood test!
by The Autumn Wind on Jan 7, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah… he doesn’t.
Floyd wants to fight the best… His welterweight resume speaks for itself.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Jan 7, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mayweather should have asked for a blood test for Marquez when he fought him. I mean he went up in weight and knocked out two champs. Two guys who have never been Ko’ed.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Jan 7, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Rec’d….
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Thumbs way up
This is a fight I can get excited for. It isn’t the big show, but damn, this is interesting.
Didn't Floyd already beat the Big Show?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
by Chaos100 on Jan 7, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You've lost me.....
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
You burned Floyd.
Keep firing Assholes!
It’s as if you fell down a flight of stairs, then logged onto the internet.
I like it
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
It was a weak attempt at 4:15am humour....
I’ll try harder next time….
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
It’ll probably be a pretty good fight. I’ll be interested to see how their styles match up. Has Pacman fought anybody that uses the “walls closing in” style of fighting that Clottey uses?
This is 10X the fight that Manny vs Foreman would have been but only slightly more interesting than Mayweather vs Malinaggi.
He might fight Cotto NOW.....
But Manny already beat the fight out of him…. loosened the lid on the pickle jar, if you like….
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Agreed on that count.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
That does not prove anything!
Floyd faught fighters that others have beaten and vice versa. Seems like a very shallow way of looking at things and a handy way of raising one’s own throne. That’s what Floyd keeps on insisting whenever he proclaims his disrespect with other fighters (accomplishments). One should refrain from such argument…unless you and floyd have similar way of reasoning.
Neither Floyd or Pacquiao will ever fight Paul Williams, ever.
Horrible match up for either of them.
Never...
I would love to see Paul vs PBF. But they would never do that, it would be nice if Paul could still make 147, which is not that far off. I think he came in at 157 for a 160 fight so that is only 10 lbs and I am sure he was not trying to cut weight.
But PBF would never put himself out there like that. He knows that Paul is to long and tall for him and would give him all kinds of style problems, volume of punchs, south paw..etc.
by DL3 on Jan 8, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. Most of the guys he’s been fighting come straight to him, or are Marquez, who is a counter puncher by trade but doesn’t have the tightest D.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Jan 7, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think part of it also is that they thought they could overpower Pacquiao, whom they’d assumed was the smaller man.
by madmonkeyfist on Jan 7, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
Really?? Only slightly more interesting? I’m quite surprised to see you say that.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
there will certainly be more fireworks. But, Iike the way Mayweather fights. I feel like I learn something about boxing most of the times I watch him and I’ll be interested to see how he picks Paulie apart.
That is the problem with the fight. Mayweather will pick Paulie a part. If he doesn’t, it is because Paulie ran the entire time. There is no chance it is competitive. Clottey could damn well beat Pacquiao.
Gotta agree
This fight is much more interesting than Mayweather v Paulie.
I’ll say this though. These two matchups are at least better than Mayweather v Matthew Hatton and Pacquiao v Paulie.
I'm happy that Clottey got this fight
He’s a tough fighter that can make the best look bad. I didn’t think he was going to get any big fights again after that war with Cotto, so hopefully he can make enough bank on this fight to last.
I'm conflicted.
I give Pacquiao credit for at least fighting another legitimate welterweight, but I honestly believe he’s more to blame for the megafight not happening. I don’t think he’s dodging Floyd, I just feel his ego has taken over and he won’t let Floyd get his way, even though Floyd’s compromise of 14 days (if that’s true) is extremely fair. Also, Floyd fighting Malignaggi is a joke.
I know people will disagree with this, but the other part of this is that Joshua Clottey is overrated. His best win is probably his technical decision against Judah. His fight against Cotto was damn good, but Cotto also couldn’t see out of one eye after the third round. He also lost against the next two best fighters he has fought in Baldomir and Margarito. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a game fighter who has a chance. But he’s not an elite fighter by any means.
What Floyd should do now is announce he will fight the winner of Mosley-Berto. This fight would make him the most money, be great for his creditability, and make Pacquiao look like the reason their fight did not happen. He would only have to wait 4 weeks to make the fight and fight in June (Floyd was okay with fighting in May so he shouldn’t have a problem with this).
What Floyd should do now is announce he will fight the winner of Mosley-Berto
I guess better late than never… but this would be ideal.
I wonder if he will still have the blood testing demands… lol.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I don't see the big deal about his demands.
In fact, I think it’s great for boxing. 2 weeks before the fight is not a big deal, in my opinion.
LOL
I could see Floyd maybe challenging the loser of Mosley-Berto, but the winner??? HAHAHA! Never happen.
Also, I would just like to add that this is why I am a Pac fan and not a Floyd fan. If Floyd wind against Pauli he will be 41-0, and if anything further the opinion of those who see him as a fraud who cherry picks the easiest fights he can find. If Pac wins he furthers the already sound argument that he may be one of the greats. Floyd would have never taken Clottey over Malignaggi.
Wasn't Pacquiao going to fight Malignaggi about a week ago?
I agree that Malignaggi is a BS fight, but I’m tired of this argument that Pacquiao fights everyone. Two of his last three fights have been guys Floyd HAS ALREADY BEATEN. He also fought David Diaz on his rise through the ranks. Pacquiao fought some great fighters in his natural division, but so did Mayweather. Both of them have cherry picked after going up in weight!!!
BS
I heard the rumors that Manny would fight Paulie, as well as Yuri, etc. But those were rumors. And diaz was a no brainer, grabbing a title on his way up. Point is Manny could fight any of a number of lesser fighters than Joshua, but he’s not. And Floyd could pick a any of a number of guys better than Paulie, but he’s not.
It's also a rumor that Floyd is going to fight him.
This is what I’m saying. Pacquiao fought DLH at a lower weight after DLH was done. Then fought Hatton after Floyd knocked him out. Then fought Cotto after Margarito knocked him out.
Besides his fight with DLH, the same thing applies to Floyd. Fought an overhyped Hatton at a higher weight (which a lot of people put heavy emphasis on, but I don’t, but am including it anyways), then fought Marquez at a higher weight than he was used to.
However, Floyd’s fights against Baldomir and Judah were legitimate fights at the time. Judah was one of the biggest names in the welterweight division and Baldomir was the linear champ. When Floyd began discussions about fighting Judah, he was the linear champ. There is no shame for Floyd fighting either of those fights.
Yeah that's what he does
He’ll put those gloves up to his face and check out of the fight about mid-way.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Well, let me say this. Pacquiao-Clottey would be a very telling matchup for both guys. Clottey can be frustrating and Pacquaio can be overwhelming. Josh is an intelligent fighter who knows how to deal with speedy lefties, so it is a very good, respectable and bile-free fight. I only hope that Team Pacquaio does not try to nickel-and-dime Josh down to 145 or what have you. Josh is a big welterweight.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Pac’s bogus claim to Cotto’s 147 title really left a bad taste in my mouth. If they do it here I’ll have very little respect for a win. I suspect they will though.
I have no idea
what you’re saying here. And I’m not being sarcastic.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 8, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Pac-Cotto fight
was not fought at 147, but they made Cotto put the 147 title on the line. I believe this was a reply to the comment above it.
Don't be silly
Dozens if not hundreds of title fights over the years have been at catchweights. It’s not like it’s some evil Pacquiao scheme.
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 8, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
They fought at a catch weight. How can you win the title for a weight class when you didn’t even fight at that weight?
It wasn’t bogus. They were within the welterweight limit, and the contracted weight wasn’t a big deal. Cotto wouldn’t have lost much money for coming in over, and isn’t a huge welter anyway , More of a natural 140-lb fighter, really. Josh on the other hand is a big welter, and anything under 147 I think would seriously affect his stamina.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
They fought at a catch weight. How can you win the title for a weight class when you didn’t even fight at that weight?
I just want Sugar Ray Leonard’s legacy to take a beating from you if this is how you feel. Fair is fair. Leonard did it plenty.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Jan 8, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
It seems to me that the limit for a weight class is designed to be just that, the standard highest weight you can fight at in order to be considered part of that division.
Not knowing the particulars about Leonard I can’t really say one way or another how I feel about it. Thought now that you mention it Pac and Leonard bear some resemblance… media darling, doe-eyed, big grinning, but calculating human beings.
Stopped mid-post to read about Sugar Ray. “On November 7, 1988 Leonard came back and fought Don LaLonde. Leonard suffered a 4th round knockdown and was cut on the nose. Yet he recovered and knocked out Lalonde in the ninth round to win two world titles in one fight, the newly created WBC Super Middleweight Championship, and Lalonde’s WBC Light Heavyweight Championship. This arrangement was somewhat controversial because light-heavyweight LaLonde had to weigh-in at or below the super-middleweight limit of 168 pounds.” Super bogus.
Well, now that you’ve “stopped mid post” on a boxing to learn about a Sugar Ray Leonard fight, I guess you showed us.
There’s nothing wrong with catchweights in theory. It’s often a good way to get a good and meaningful fight to come off. It’s just that sometimes they are terrible ideas in practice, especially when they would constitute unnaturally large drops in body mass or are required on short notice (or both).
And as for LaLonde, that 7 pound differences wasn’t “super bogus.” Seven pounds isn’t as big a difference at 175lbs, for instance, as it would be at 147. And I remember that fight well. It wasn’t bogus at all. LaLonde wasn’t a huge guy. He regularly came in well shy of 175 for fights, and wasn’t a glistening solid Adonis. He fought lots of fights at 168. Hell, for those of us of a certain generation the current 168 “division” is STILL a glorified catchweight itself.. when it was invented, a lot of guys I knew would call it “a retirement home for old middleweights.” I’ve since warmed to it, but to say that LaLonde lost because he had to shed four and a half pounds from his previous fight is, well, bogus.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
"Well, now that you’ve "stopped mid post" on a boxing to learn about a Sugar Ray Leonard fight, I guess you showed us."
Welcome back, jrok.
The place hasn’t been quite the same without you. :)
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I wasn’t trying to be abrasive, but I don’t like it when people say “oh, I don’t know who or what you are talking about, but I just looked up Galileo on google or whatever, and so now I’m an expert on astronomy.”
Donny LaLonde! For crying out loud!!!
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
How often does this happen?
For a boxer to face an opponent (Cotto) and beat him. And then face the fighter (Clottey) who lost to your last opponent the fight before.
Still a Chance that PBF-Pacman could happen!
There’s still more than 9 weeks to go before the 13th of March.
That’s not a great press run for guys of that stature for a fight with that much money, but yes, it can still happen. I hope it does.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Clottey is a warrior
I am relieved that Pacman didn’t fight Malignaggi. He would have ripped the little Brooklyn boy to shreds. Clottey is a genuine, elite Welterweight, slick, solid and will pose a danger to Pacman. Pacman, as pointed out above, may well hook around Clottey’s tight guard and open him up that way. But this fight is guaranteed, two-way action.
Big thumbs up
This is a very interesting fight as Clottey has an exceptional defence, great chin and is a strong guy who hits quite hard. The style matchup and tactics will be interesting and this is yet another big challenge for Pacquiao. I am glad that Clottey is getting the big fights he deserves and I am very glad that pacquiao is fighting another top notch welterweight opponent.
Good fight all round!
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
I guess one thing we can be confident in is that Manny can’t possibly knock Clottey out. (Can he? I mean, there’s just no way, right?)
I'm gonna have a bet on it. The odds will be about 3/1, right?
He has stopped Oscar, Hatton and Cotto….
Got to be worth a bet, surely?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I'm betting on it if I can
"Honey i forgot to duck" - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jan 10, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
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