Leonard Ellerbe slams Bob Arum
by Scott Christ on Jan 8, 2010 12:17 AM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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Speaking with David Mayo of The Grand Rapids Press, Floyd Mayweather Jr. adviser Leonard Ellerbe had some scathing comments about Top Rank promoter Bob Arum.
"Arum is trying to trick the public into thinking there was no compromise at all," Ellerbe said. "He never mentioned that a 14-day compromise was offered -- and rejected -- prior to mediation.
"I think it’s more than a fair compromise, particularly since, realistically, it’s not an issue that should be compromised on at all."Ellerbe also disputed a media report in which Arum was quoted as saying two key members of Mayweather’s negotiating team -- business adviser Al Haymon and Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy Promotions -- tried to talk the Grand Rapids native into accepting the Pacquiao side’s compromise proposal of a 24-day window with no blood testing before the fight.
"It’s a childish, amateurish attempt by Bob Arum to divide and conquer," Ellerbe said. "It’s absolutely not true. It never happened. It’s a lie."
The mud-slinging, as expected, is far from over. No matter what these guys do next or if they ever fight each other this year, next year, or when they're both 50, there's going to be back-and-forth trashing from both sides.
One thing I will say, and this was something I was discussing with another member of the site, is that as much as I want to move on, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't say that in the press, Mayweather has already beaten Pacquiao. It would seem that a lot of people favor Mayweather's side in this disaster to Pacquiao's, and for some very good reasons, too.
In some ways, Mayweather already has a win over Manny Pacquiao. Pacquiao was the hottest name in boxing, had taken Mayweather's status as pound-for-pound king in many circles, and was pointed at as the guy who "did it right," while Mayweather took some reputation hits for picking and choosing opponents. Pacquiao was a fighter for the people; Mayweather was a cold businessman. This seemed the perception no more than a month ago.
Now, it's all turned around for a good many people. Pacquiao has a cloud hanging over him. Personally, I don't see either of them coming out of this terribly well, but if I had to guess a winner in the court of public opinion, it's Mayweather.
Whether that's fair or not is up for debate, but it is what it is (or seems to be what it is).
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I'm not saying the Mayweather camp are saints by any means
But I honestly have to put the majority of the blame on the Pac-Man camp. Talking smack, trying to get into your opponents head, trying to “syke” them out; its part of any competitive sport.
Mayweather just wanted to get into Manny’s head and “get his goat” and that’s exactly what he did. The Pacquiao camp blew the whole thing out of proportion and brought tons of negative PR for the sport of boxing with his absolutely ridiculous “lawsuit” which he has zero chance of succeeding in.
So I agree with Scott that yes, Floyd has already won round 1.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 8, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely.
But more importantly, I feel everyone loses. Pacquiao has lost some of the good will he has earned in the past 2-3 years. Mayweather has lost the immediate chance to prove his critics wrong by fighting Pacquiao and beating him. The sport of boxing loses the chance to re-enter the national media and create excitement, not only for the mega fight, but for everything that would have followed it. And all of us fans have lost the oppurtunity to see the biggest fight in a quarter century.
I really hope the rumors that Pacquiao has signed on to fight Clottey are false. Everybody needs this fight to happen.
I will make a prediction… we will have a mega fight in May.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I still think it goes down in March.
But, yeah, I’m not sure why everyone is falling so hard for every twist and turn in this story.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 8, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Because it's the first truly relevant sporting event that boxing would have
contributed to world athletics in the last decade or so, and the best fight matchup in the last handful of decades. This is the kind of thing that would have opened up gyms all across the world, inspired athletes to choose boxing as their profession, and given a much-needed boost to boxing’s public image (which, through events exactly like this one, has lost a ton of ground to MMA in recent years, which it is now unlikely to re-take).
Boxing screwed up. The whole framework of boxing allows for this type of thing to happen, and you essentially have two fighters deciding the long-term interests of the sport. Not good business practice to have the employees running the show, in anything you do.
Ultimately, they’ll fight. Later this year, in all likelihood. But they screwed up the momentum that boxing had, and alienated all of the press that covered this back-and-forth, meaning when they do get around to doing it, it won’t be as impactful, meaningful, or profitable as it could have been in the second week of March.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
You missed my point.
I’m saying this is nothing more than posturing from both sides. In this generation of ultra-short attention spans, reality TV drama, and unprecedented media access, this is the only way these negotiations were going to play out. You have a family of certifiably insane people, like the Mayweathers, and a clan of people led by a notoriously shifty character, like Arum, trying to negotiate the fight of a generation. Generation Stupid, if you will. This is simply the way it HAS to unfold. Not sure what people were expecting.
This is all par for the course. Until I see posters, press conferences scheduled, etc, that say Manny will be fighting Clottey, I’m operating under the assumption that the fight with Floyd takes place as scheduled.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 8, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
No, you're dead-on in your assessment.
The problem is, they could have really launched their sport (and themselves) forward to regain a lot of the ground they’ve lost in the last couple decades. They squandered that opportunity.
I guess the complaint isn’t really about Floyd and Pacquiao. The complaint has more to do with the framework of boxing ALLOWING this type of thing to unravel in the first place. As has been said elsewhere, you don’t cancel the Superbowl because one of the teams thinks the other is cheating. It’s simply not allowed, because it would cause permanent damage to the sport.
The other part of this which upsets people is that there are literally no other “good” fights for either of these guys. Mayweather can backpedal his way to victory against pretty much anyone else, and Manny has zero left to prove. They needed to fight each other, for the sport and for themselves. But they were allowed to torpedo the thing because of the horrific framework, that is modern day boxing.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
If my assessment is dead-on, then why are you saying that this whole thing has been torpedoed? I’m saying this fight will still happen, as scheduled, for the reasons above. The buildup to a fight of this magnitude, at this moment in time, with considerations to who is involved, could only be this absurd.
Nothing is torpedoed, yet, as far as I can tell. Assuming a headline pops up in the near future stating “Mega Fight Is On Again!”, people will wake up the next morning as giddy as ever at the thought of these two fighters stepping into a ring. It’ll all be categorized away as part of some bitter feud to be settled on one of the grandest stages boxing has ever seen. The same fickleness that this whole fiasco thrives on works both ways. All will be forgiven.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Jan 8, 2010 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
Again, you're missing my point.
My point isn’t that the fight definitely won’t happen, and that the sky is falling. My point is that they have damaged the potential of the fight and the integrity of the sport in the view of many fans. It’s caused damage.
The on-again, off-again stuff only goes so far with most people, then they turn their attention to something else. For many people, that point has now come and gone.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I would like to see a poll.
Better if you do it than me, SC…..
“On whose shoulders do you place most of the blame for this fight not being made?”
- Floyd Mayweather (and camp)
- Manny Pacquiao (and camp)
I’d be interested to see how that result came out.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I second the motion.
Put it on the front page for a week and see what people say.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
A poll with Manny Pacquiao? You wonder how it will turn out?
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Jan 8, 2010 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish someone would name for me the magical drug cocktail that is going to have such a calculable effect in three weeks time.
This miserable mess has no winners. Mayweather hasn’t won anything worth having. At best it’s a Peric victory. “Okay, so I’m not as great as you thought I was… but neither is Pacquaio, man.”
This is sick stuff. I know there’s no way to stop reporting on it, but I wish there were. The whole promotion makes me want to puke now, even if the fight miraculously comes off.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Who is this “Peric” fellow that you speak of and who was he victorious over?
The grammar nerd in me wants to correct your spelling, but I’d rather just say welcome back. Hope work is slowing down for you so we can see you around more jrok.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Oh fuck it’s Pyrrhic.
Miller, you have one this battel. But it is a Pyrrhic victory, since you incorrectly used “who” instead of “whom!”
“…and over whom was he victorious.”
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
The “who” versus “whom” rule when used as a subject in a sentence, like the rule about ending sentences with prepositions, is almost universally ignored in the States at this point. Even the insanely finicky and anal copy-editor for my next book lets that one slide. “Pyrrhic” vs. “Peric” on the other hand…
Arguing with jrok! Feels like old times again!
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
The "who" versus "whom" rule when used as a subject in a sentence, like the rule about ending sentences with prepositions, is almost universally ignored in the States at this point.
Things that work in my favor.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Your copy editor smokes the long bone, Miller! Two who’s in a sentence should be a red flag. “Who” (Pyrrhus) is the subject, different from “whom” (those fuckers he killed).
HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW THIS? I DEMAND A BLOOD TEST!
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
On Behalf of
“One thing I will say, and this was something I was discussing with another member of the site, is that as much as I want to move on, I think I’d be remiss if I didn’t say that in the press, Mayweather has already beaten Pacquiao. It would seem that a lot of people favor Mayweather’s side in this disaster to Pacquiao’s, and for some very good reasons, too.”
And you and the other “person” on this site represent boxing fans all over the world. Please dude. You’re talking with your emotion. In the back of your mind, you think pacman is doing PEDs or HGH. You just don’t want to say it. Can you give me a good educated reason why Floyd is asking for random blood test? And please don’t answer with a question. I get the alot.
Please don’t tell me what I think. You could not be further from the truth.
Can you give me a good educated reason why Floyd is asking for random blood test?
Ask Mayweather. He’s doing it because he wants to level the playing field, or so he says. So that everyone knows for sure, for the good of the sport, because it’s so important, etc.
Because his dad made a baseless accusation that was then echoed by a few people in boxing. Which then got a lot of fans and media talking about it. Which made Pacquiao look bad to a lot of those same people. Pacquiao and PEDs was not a hot button issue two months ago. It is now.
In my opinion (I might “talk with my emotion” here), the blood testing should be required for all fights. I also understand why Pacquiao balked, and have argued endlessly with those who seem to think it’s disgraceful that Manny would resist being asked to do something Mayweather didn’t ask Juan Manuel Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Oscar de la Hoya or anyone else to do. From where I sit, the number one reason that Mayweather asked for the tests was because his dad made a wild accusation with zero evidence, and because Pacquiao is really good. That’s not right at all. The end doesn’t really justify the means in this case, though I think the end (the blood testing) would be a good thing for the sport. I do not at all like how the Mayweather camp went about this whole charade, but I don’t think you can argue against my point above, which is that Manny Pacquiao’s reputation comes out of this whole ordeal damaged, at least as it stands right now. His public image is not the same as it was a month ago.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Jan 8, 2010 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
From where I sit, the number one reason that Mayweather asked for the tests was because his dad made a wild accusation with zero evidence, and because Pacquiao is really good.
Of all the people that could have an influence on Mayweather’s professional career or contract negotiations, I think Sr. is probably toward the bottom of that list.
Does nobody remember the falling out between the two? I know they “reconciled” somewhat, but it’s more on a personal level and not a business level.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but maybe Jr. actually thinks he’s on PEDs too.
One more thing
“Manny Pacquiao’s reputation comes out of this whole ordeal damaged, at least as it stands right now. His public image is not the same as it was a month ago.” It works both ways SC. Read Floyd’s Statements. Kind of like a kid who is going through a “your momma is” routine. geez.
BUT you don't represent everyone.
You said it yourself. “Please don’t tell me what I think” Since you say Manny’s reputation is damged, I say it hasn’t and the only people think he’s integrity is shot is the people that think he is on steroids which I believe is a small percentage. Alot of boxing fans are casual fans. Not like you, me and the nuthughers out there. They could care less about the negotiations and all the crap the was in the articles. All I know is people asking, “when is Manny fighting?” He’s the most exciting fighter right now for casual fans becuase for casual fans, they want a knock out. Boxing was at it’s best in the 70’s and 80’s (my generation) when people tried to take each other heads off, ala hearns, duran, tyson. Casual fans remember this.
Also, My question was why and I mean why was mayweather imposing the test and not the NV commission test for this fight? Fair play, evening the playing field? is a dumb. I agree with you that all boxers should be under the same scrutiny and if it should be changed, then be it. But at this time, does mayweather know something? Becuase if he does, he needs to come out and say it. As for now, people are blowing smoke up there asses and looking past that initial question as to why now?
I think the answer for why Nevada doesn't impose it is pretty simple
Which is that it’s just a lot more expensive. If they required random blood testing and the like, they’d never get smaller cards to come to Nevada because the overhead would be too high. Then again, other than the Olympics and competitive biking, I can’t think of a single league where they have random blood testing. If one person can dictate all the rules, then it can happen. But as soon as collective bargaining steps into the picture, it’s never gonna happen.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
When did I say I represent everyone? I was giving an opinion on what I believe has been the way the public has swayed on this. How hard is that to understand?
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Great post.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I honestly think that Manny's reputation
takes a hit no matter how he responds to this. He could give it the response he actually did, or he could go Tom Selleck on it, and either way it blows up in his face. THAT’S why this was such a really low-class, thuggish move by Floyd. He does damage, and can follow-up for years no matter how Manny responds to it with more damaging statements.
This whole thing was about Floyd’s zero being a greater accomplishment than Manny’s historic ascension through the weight classes.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Hi Mr. Arum!
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 8, 2010 3:14 AM EST up reply actions
I wish someone would name for me the magical drug cocktail that is going to have such a calculable effect in three weeks time.
An, not only that, but this miracle drug course will also VANISH from the bloodstream before the mandatory post-fight blood test. This is some raging bullshit. No such miracle dope exists. The implication was simply meant to damage the guy’s reputation.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Blood and hair samples after the fight
would show anything in the system. Anything.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
We need semen samples… as well.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
by Zocalo on Jan 8, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am joking by the way…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Me too......
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Drug Test??
This ain’t about no stinkin’ drug test, this is just an out of control, egotistical, insufferable, me-first, I’m the King of Vegas and what I say goes, illogical, ill-concieved, ill-timed, ploy by an ill-mannered brat to upset the boxing scene for his own psychological attempt to upset his opponent. NEVER has Camp May or GBP asked for this testing and they know MP ain’t juicing now, Are they propping up Mosley to be tested? He IS the admitted juicer. Floyd said he could whup Manny, and then he saw MP handle Cotto, and hes lookin for any advantage he can find, thats OK, he should, but this is not how to do it. The tests MP agreed to will show if he’s juicing, make the fight. Peace!!
Arum is a serpent...
…that talking one from Genesis. I would believe Don King before I believe anything that comes out of that dudes mouth. It’s strange that Manny would pick him as a promoter. How can he even stand to hear that guy talk?
Regardless of who you think is to blame for these failed negotiations (I say both). Think about who did the most name calling and made the most negative statements throughout it all. At least 3 times Arum came away from negotiations saying “The fight is off”; “Mayweather is a coward” I think one time he even said “go to hell” or F.U to the other side. Who does that? Think about how many times you heard Richard Schaefer say the fight is off or call them some childish name.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Arum
is a certified whack-o, thats been proven by his own admission with the famous “Yesterday I was lyin’,.. today I’m tellin’ the truth” statement. All those years of competing with Don King, the stress of tryin to deal these massive ego fighters, and his age (read senility) seem to have caught up with the Bobfather. Peace!!
by Iron Beach on Jan 8, 2010 9:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Uncle Bob has several screws loose for sure, but his hysterics just don’t faze me anymore. It’s much like a small child who keeps walking up and telling you rambling, unfunny jokes. After a while your eyes just glaze over and you tune out.
That said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. There has been a steaming river of jealous bullshit running under this buildup from the moment Manny pulled the plug on Cotto.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
jrok-on
Couldn’t agree more my friend, I just have a hard time believin’ they could just walk away from the massive amount of recognition and revenue generated by this fight. Its just ridiculous, when ya’ think about it, I mean just STOP and really think about it,..how could ya’ turn your back on this history makin’ event. Mind boggling!! Peace!!
The one
poll I’ve seen overwhelming found Mayweather more in the wrong—61% to 39%, but that is one poll.
A poll on the internet ALWAYS favors Manny Pacquiao. It just does.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
Does that mean it's automatically wrong?
When we’re this close to something, our perspective gets skewed. Any and all of the people who regularly post on this site can come up with reasons for and against both positions. It’s no the same for more casual fans.
What casual fans think is what matters, not what a bunch of us internet dweebs think. Polls indicate valuable information, sometimes you need to sift through it a bit to find what you’re looking for, but it’s always there.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
When ALL polls that involve Manny Pacquiao are eventually flooded by his legion of fans, I think it’s automatically worthless. Which is not the same as wrong, but they skew the voting in a way that makes it hard to take it seriously at all.
Bad Left Hook
"If bulls**t was poetry, Ray 'Boom Boom' Mancini's name would be Shakespeare." -- Dennis Rappaport
by Scott Christ on Jan 9, 2010 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's my point...
if every poll involving Manny gets flooded with his fans, and NO poll involving Mayweather gets the same treatment, doesn’t that indicate something pretty damned valuable?
I mean, we know the average age of a non-registered-poll-clicker is something like 17.6 (guessing..I saw the number a few years ago and it was below voting age) because of all the 12-14 year old hyper-clickers out there. But isn’t this indicative of the general public opinion for the demographic parents of said hyper-clickers? It’s valuable, no question.
You can’t take it as a face-value representation of public opinion as a whole, but you can take it as face-value representation of your site’s demographic. And for one of the best boxing sites out there, that’s a pretty valuable chunk of information, I’d think.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Just wanna say....
I agree totally with the comments of SC and jrok on this thread.
There has been some bollocks spouted on this thread, but those two have got it in line.
I’d rec all their comments, or agree individually with each one, but, hell, it’s 4:41am, and I need my bed.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
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