Andre Dirrell out of Super Six World Boxing Classic
by Scott Christ on Oct 7, 2010 4:41 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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A report today from Bob Velin at USA Today says that Andre Dirrell has pulled out of the Super Six World Boxing Classic with an undisclosed injury, canceling his November 27 fight with Andre Ward. FanHouse's Lem Satterfield reports that promoter Gary Shaw is calling it a neurological problem.
Dirrell and Ward were supposed to fight on September 27, but promoters Shaw and Dan Goossen couldn't come to an agreement on a venue. After the two sides were served legal notice by Showtime, they worked out a new date recently. But now the fight is completely off, and Ward joins Mikkel Kessler and Jermain Taylor on the sidelines, meaning that half of the original field of the tournament is out before the third stage even begins.
Showtime's Ken Hershman says Ward will still fight on Nov. 27, but he doesn't know if it will be in or out of the tournament.
At this point, no matter how Showtime wants to spin it, the tournament is dead in terms of momentum. They might keep it going, but it simply won't mean near as much from here out as it did before. But with Dirrell and Kessler pulling out, every ounce of steam this tournament has built up is now gone. We're already dealing with a double replacement fight between Allan Green (who was embarrassed by Ward in his tournament debut in June) and Glen Johnson, a very good but old fighter trying to cut to a weight he hasn't made in a decade.
Ward against yet another replacement -- especially given the likely options -- just isn't much of a fight. Green-Johnson is already light on interest. Carl Froch and Arthur Abraham may look at this disaster around them and wonder if it's really worth it anymore, especially if they think there are easier fights out there for them, which there are.
In short, with Dirrell pulling out, the Super Six is now totally meaningless. Taylor leaving was one thing. Kessler leaving was a big blow. Dirrell drives the nails into the coffin. I'd love to rally around Showtime's dogged determination to keep going, but I just can't. We aren't even out of the group stages yet and half the field is gone. Is there really any reason to believe that this thing will make it through elimination rounds even if they get all these fights done?
It was a great, ambitious, and admirable idea, and Showtime and Ken Hershman deserve a lot of credit for thinking outside the box. But it didn't work. It just didn't work.
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Ugh. I love the Super Six, but that just about kills the last of its validity in everyone else’s eyes. Four-man tournaments are all we’ll ever see from hereon, lads.
Reading more, though, the Super Six might not be the biggest thing destroyed here, if Dirrell’s career is threatened/over due to these neurological issues. (As Rafael is reporting.) Really bad way to end a career coming off of such a promising upset, and if this was due to Abraham’s malevolence, I may never watch him again.
I’m guessing it had to have been due to Abraham, but the case for “malevolence” is weak if not nonexistent. It was pretty clearly just a mistake, for which he was appropriately DQ’d. Boxing is a dangerous sport.
Thats debatable
It being a mistake or on purpose was clearly a debatable topic when all of this went down.
El Destruyo
I couldn’t agree with you more—the minute I saw the words “neurological problem” I flashed on that image of him, limp and down, punched silly by that savage, that scary delayed reaction thing, the twitching—I was scared to death for him in those first moments, just totally not good. Should they try and continue, I’ll watch him again—for the novelty, likely never to be repeated, of cheering for Carl Froch.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
There was always a risk that something like this would happen. Doesn’t change that it was a good idea and a worthy effort. It will probably discourage Showtime from trying something like this again in the future, but it shouldn’t.
We'll have to see what Sauerland does
Last I checked, their cruiserweight tournament was going to be a go. We’ll see if they make adjustments or decide to cancel altogether. This could end up being more of a learning experience than an abject failure. And even if it turns out poorly, we still got the best fighting the best for a while, and two really good fights out of it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
And only one bad one
which kind of means it was already a success.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
True. The goal of coming up with an undisputed champion is, I think, inherently illusory anyway. Even if you had a Dana White figure controlling the entire boxing world, you still wouldn’t have a “true champion” most of the time – if for no other reason because styles make fights and triangle theories don’t work. To me, the reason why we try to crown a true champion isn’t because the answer of “who’s the best” is necessarily answerable, but because it’s a fiction that has utilitarian value. It’s only by trying to answer that often-unanswerable question that we get the useful byproduct of good fights between good fighters. The ultimate goal of boxing is entertainment, and the ultimate value of any endeavor in boxing is determined by whether it was entertaining. So even if this Super Six “didn’t work,” that’s alright – it did work as long as we enjoyed the fights along the way. And for the most part, it sounds like we did.
I think the issue is...
the amount of delays and cancellations caused by injuries (real and fake) in the fight game. In a single elimination tournament as the field is cut in half every round that means you have half as many fighters to deal with. In a round robin type set-up you’re going to see a fighter or two drop out but when it’s three of the six, it’s really damn hard to continue onward.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 8, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So sad
They tried so hard to make a brilliant event, and it just wouldn’t come together.
I strongly hope that other organisations or promoters, who are possibly considering tournament like this, will not be discouraged. Of course, it is inevitable that they will be.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
I thought there may be some problems but …this is a shitter .
A tourney with too many intangibles from the start ?
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Oct 7, 2010 5:48 PM EDT reply actions
What a difference a year makes
I remember being pumped for this tourney last year and now its all but dead. Really sad as it was being hailed as the way to go forward and breath new life into boxing, which will continue to die.
They tried--
and it was a great idea. I don’t know, this is not a good thing.
At least there's the bantamweight tourney
If anything, the initial success may encourage smaller tournaments to get rankings in order.
Check this out.
I’m from metro Detroit but I’m boxing out of MLK Boxing in Grand Rapids because I go to shool in Grand Rapids. Anyway, my coach is friends with Andre Dirells grandpa. My coach said he talked to Dirells grandpa recently and said that they were not gonig to do the Ward fight it there was not big bucks involved. He said Dirrell wanted more money and the split purse from all the six competitors was not cutting it. So they pulled out because of money, not injury.
i dont doubt this
but the obvious counter argument is that there arent many, if any, other “money” fights out there for direll… no other fight is gonna get him the coverage the tourney got him..
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Oct 7, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but if he signs to fight any time soon
He’d have a breach of contract lawsuit on his hands.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
would he fight bute?
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Oct 8, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
It was a sound concept. Creative and just what boxing needed.Maybe they should hva edeveloped a better contigency
plan. Because they sure look like they don’t jhave much of a back-up strategy here. Bad business practices. What happened to “what if?”
Pray for Nick Charles
I predicted that Dirrel vs Ward would NEVER happen and
either Brickhaus or Scott ( cannot remember which one ) said that there was too much money involved for it not to happen !!! Well I told ya so !!! Dirrel just seemed reluctant to fight and I don’t buy it for a minute that he’s really hurt !!! These two just don’t wanna fight each other is all !!! Had Dirrel been scheduled to fight Green you’d bet your ass he’d show up for the fight !!! Let’s just have Ward fight the winner of Froch vs AA and skip the rest.Green can still fight Johnson but not for any belt.The winner of that can take on Bika.Then we’d have something to look forward to !!! Dirrel and his people should be ashamed of the way that this has all gone down !!! AND the rumours out of Canada are that Bute was gonna just move up to Light Heavy as the wait for the eventual tounry winner would be too long a wait !!! The other rumour has David Lemieux fighting Hector Camacho.
It's not a matter of "IF" the North will break you.It's a matter of "WHEN" the North will break you.For up here every year counts as two on the outside.
by Ghostman (Son of the Wolf) on Oct 8, 2010 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions
But it's also sure that you won't get top competitors
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Forgive me, but I'm not sold on neurological problems
from the Abraham fight. I’ve watched that punch from a few different angles and it REALLY appears to be a grazing punch at best. I’ve always gotten the feeling of Dirrell lacking in the heart department, at least at the upper echelon of fighters. He’s never appeared to be someone who wants to ‘leave it all in the ring’ and boxing appears to be something he was quite good at, but never desired to be the best at.
by SmittytheCutman on Oct 7, 2010 11:43 PM EDT reply actions
Oh damn. This was something boxing could have really, really used.
I hope the Abraham-Froch will still happen.
Don't like wrestling in MMA? Go watch K-1.
Can't deal with the occasional boring fight? Let me introduce you to ROH.
Dear Mr. White - would it kill you to drop a few f-bombs less?
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 8, 2010 3:39 AM EDT reply actions
This is why people watch UFC
the top fighters and champions ALL want to fight each other and Dana White makes it happen. This is a disgrace to boxing, and honestly I’m not sure if a lot of my fandom for the sweet science isn’t at an all-time low right now. Mayweather-Pacquiao and now this? Boxing is the least fan-friendly sport in the country and it just drives me insane. The Super Six had match-ups I was really excited about. How sad was the statement that Abraham and Froch my look for easier fights? You don’t see UFC fights looking for easier fights . . . they all keep looking to move up.
Pathetic.
Vote Quimby
I’m kind of getting tired of people saying boxing should rebuild itself in the league model of a UFC, directly or by implication, because guess what? You would have to burn boxing to the ground for such a thing to happen. MMA wasn’t much of a money-making proposition before it strong-armed so much of the market into being, and made its name synonymous with MMA, as Xerox is to copies.
Boxing is established, if messy and lassez-faire. When one promoter/organization is really about to happen, it will mean that slalom is more popular than boxing.
Let’s not be Oscar De La Hoya, people, let’s be real.;
Nothing against Oscar, who doesn't bother me, but yes--
“Boxing is established, if messy and lassez-faire.”
Yes. And altho it really is messy, and could certainly profit by a certain amount of tuning up—a national commission, for instance—there’s something kind of organic about the way boxing works that seems fundamentally necessary, even tho’ non-fans have trouble seeing that “organicness” as other that “fixed fights”—protection of prospects, tuneup fights, confidence-builder-after-a KO types of fights, which they are, in a way—but they’re also not, in a way, and they’re necessary. Boxing requires way more skill than MMA, it’s a different animal, needs different keeping. And the looseness is necessary for room for growth, seems to me. Could certainly be handled better a lot of times, but it’s the way it has to be, imo.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
A few of the stronger personalities are on the way out
Long-term, there might be ways to form an interpromotional coalition that would help the sport overall. But for that to happen, I think HBO would need to drive the train and basically say it’s not going to deal with individual promoters unless they team up to work together. Plus, the fact that Top Rank can consistently pay its fighters pretty well with those small PPVs gives them very little incentive to “play nice”. It’s a classic prisoner’s dilemma.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I hate to say this, because I reeeeally dislike Andre Ward, but maybe the only way forward for this tournament is to give Ward a “bye” and then have him fight the winner of AA/Froch. I mean, after all, Ward is the only one of the bunch to win both his fights, so a “bye” wouldn’t be unwarranted or unfair. Maybe that way at least we’d get two more good fights (AA/Froch and Winner/Ward – although a “good” fight with Ward is debatable hehe).
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Agree
I’m personally neutral on liking Ward, but I respect him as a fighter, and respect the Super6 concept—I hope SHO can work out whatever contractual obligations they have and bring it to an as graceful-as-possible-close, one way or another. (re Ward=smug, prosyletizing, god-in-your-face puritanism a little to much for me.)
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
+1
I completely agree— Don’t bore us with the Allan Green-Glen Johnson nonsense— just get on to the Ward vs. AA/Froch final and call it a day.
I am actually a fan of Ward. The guy can just flat-out fight. He doesn’t have one overwhelming skill but he basically just beats the crap out of you. Amazing versatility, has a mean streak, has good grasp of the little nuances of the game… I don’t know, I like the guy despite the preachiness.
This would make sense….but I’m pretty sure there are complicated legal scenarios that would prohibit them from just eliminating the stage three figths as well as one semifinal.
I'm Very Much Afraid
You’re right—things could still be worse in a way tho, in the sense that finishing it—kind of gets creds for resolve (to say nothing of ingenuity), and does likely provide some more good fights altho not as high a percentage, and stays as best as possible with the concept—I can see it both ways. Quicker is more attractive, I’ll watch the fights either way. Even more, I look forward to the cruiserweight (will U.S. fans be able to see it?) and bantamweight tourneys. If with all the Sup6’s bad luck so far it has helped nonetheless boost this trend toward tournaments, it will have been well worth while for that alone, and in that context providing (even under contractual duress) an example of surmounting obstacles and getting a tournament to the finish, be worth finishing for that.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
Yes, actually, according to Dan Rafael, the scenario of giving Ward a bye is not really feasible because Ward DOESN’T want a bye. He has a contractual right to three fights and he wants the money.
I don’t mind the Green/Johnson fight… I would love to see Johnson ko Green just because of that pathetic performance he put up against Ward. I was soooo mad that day.
I don’t like Ward for many reasons which I’ve discussed here before. 1) That stupid nickname. 2) His overall holier-than-thou personality, 3) I hate his style of boxing. I’m not saying he doesn’t have skills or that he sucks, but personally I HATE that style of boxing. It’s too close to MMA for my taste.
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
I'm Only Neutral
on Ward re the preachiness. I like his fighting fine. When it started, I thought he was the US’s best hope in the contest, and I think so again—the tragedy is that until the 11th round of Dirrell v Abraham, I was thinking maybe Dirrell after all. Now, maybe he never fights at all.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
I think the "bye" scenario
Is that Ward gets the same money that he would have made to fight someone outside of the tournament, and the opponent make a fraction of what Dirrell would have made. Meaning, he’ll probably end up getting paid handsomely to fight another Shelby Pudwill.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Agree with Ward taking on the winner of Abraham/Froch.
Bump the rest of it.
by Don From Prov on Oct 10, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
When AA dispatched Taylor
The Super Six became Five Plus One. And thus began the unraveling.
Then Bute avenged his controversial victory against Andrade and emerged as arguably the best in the division, challenging the ‘Super’ in the five that that remained alive. Many if not most recognized that any eventual tourney winner would have a hard time laying claim to the division title….until meeting and beating the man in Montreal.
As if that weren’t enough, along comes Alan Green. With nothing of consequence to recommend him, his entry tugged at the tourney’s fraying threads. His performance…and I’m being generous…confirmed that it was no longer Super.
Kessler, beaten and bruised as any victor one can recall, left us with just four. The Super Six as we knew it was finished. It had become ….help me here….not the Fearsome Four. Maybe the Quad Squad.
Speaking of squads, the former teammates Dirrell and Ward have as much interest in fighting as Vitali and Vladimir; that being none. Had that be as contractual as it was clear, we might never even have been here.
I think there are neurological problems. Possibly from AA’s disqualifying whack. But definitely neurological. Because anyone with all of their faculties would recognize that meeting and beating their fellow Andre was the best chance a young American fighter could have at bragging rights to the use of their name. Name lends itself to fame. And fame to the name of this game: Big Purse Prize fighting.
How they wrap this up is of no concern or consequence to me. My suggestion however is that they do it fast.
I like Glen Johnson. But his inclusion finished this for me. I would have been no less pleased or excited if Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton (they can both make this weight) un-retired and threw down……against each other.
How they wrap this up for me is of no concern. My suggestion is to do it fast.
I don’t think it’s unravellin but more a case of reality setting in. Forget bute for the time being. It was a case of putting 6 of the toughest and most skilled fighters in together and not only watch them fight, but make them watch them fight to see who is the best. Unlike MMA, boxing is one skill set so the winner becomes the ultimate and so as we watch legends being crushed and gods being made everyone starts to dream that within 6 fights a hero will be made, but the reality is bodies can’t take that sustained high level pushiment and neither can the minds.
I think Dirrel is a great example of this. He may genuinly have been hurt from the punch against abraham, but the reaction, especially from a medical pov, is one of exhaustion. So while he is critised for his style against froch and his stamina against Abraham, he has to watch his next opponent, Ward, do both against Greene.
Every fighter doubts themselves or gets scared, it’s part of being human. So to expect someone like Dirrel who suddenly went from the poor kid who made it, to a guy who has to basically become a god of his weight class, all in 6 fights, is too much to expect.
Suppose it is the fairytale of boxing, but we all know fairytales rarely come true.
Beautifully said. Beautifully written.
I can’t disagree in the least.
I do think however that the tourney in promoting itself as the Super Six, it set up a dynamic that invited fair and legitimate criticism of those selected to participate.
From the outset there was a reasonable amount of second guessing about whether or not Bute should have been included. Once he stopped Andrade, I no longer felt I was watching an elimination tournament to determine who was the best at SM. The only way that I would have felt otherwise is if Bute, not Green, had entered the fray.
But I know boxing realities and realize that there are a multiplicity of reasons that did not happen. I guess we can hope that wen this tourney ends we have one man, like Joe Frazier, who can lay claim to half of the title….and then meet his Ali, in this case Bute, to settle once and for all who to crown king.
The whole concept of establishing who the best is in boxing is, more often than not, a pipe dream. Not because of the practical difficulties, but because the idea of there being a best in the world is inherently subjective and fictitious. There often is no such thing as a best boxer in the world.
As I noted above, one of the main reasons why this is the case is that styles make fights. Say you have three candidates for #1 in the world (A, B, and C). A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A. Which one of them is the best? The answer is that there is no answer. Another reason is that boxers only have tiny, insignificant sample sizes. Even if you ignore the style element, the fact that A beats B doesn’t prove that A is better than B. All it proves is that A was better on that particular night. B could very well beat A 9 times out of 10, but boxers don’t fight each other 10 times in a career, let alone in a year.
In the end, all that matters is that the fights be good and fun. I never saw the Super Six’s claims as being anything more than marketing b.s. – and that’s OK. Even if Bute had been included, it still wouldn’t have been a reliable method for determining who the best in the world is, because there is no such thing as a reliable method for doing that.
In the end, all that matters is that the fights be good and fun.
That’s the best attitude to have, I totally agree—all the rest is marketing, which is really part of the fun, but not the main part—the main part is any good fight. Think of Mickey Ward, he’s not a famous, loved fighter because of belts or trophies, he’s famous and loved for great, great fights. And because they were great, great fights, they made a movie about him alone among modern (non-Ali) boxers. After it’s release, he’ll be the most famous fighter in the U.S. mainstream, more so than any current or recent past belt or trophy holder,and rightly so. Great fights fought by a great fighter did that, not Sulaiman or trophies or belts.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
Great fights are ultimately great entertainment
It’s something all promoters know. And it is what makes and maintains fans.
I think it’s fairly accurate but not entirely fair to add that boring fighters are bad for business…..and bad for fans. I say not entirely fair because we here recognize that certain technicians are great to watch for those who know and those who care….but they are not the stuff from which new audiences are built.
DIRRELL
Dirrell did the right thing by pulling out of the Super 6. His health and future is more important than winning the Super 6. Best wishes from Texas to Dirrell.
We as fans
still need to tune in and watch the fights. They are on Showtime, it dosent cost anything extra. If the numbers for these events drop off, no one is ever going to try anything like this again. It was a massive undertaking, and while it didnt turn out the way we had hoped, we should still applaud the effort and support it for the sake of the sport.
Agreed
And it doesn’t hurt that the remaining cards are still good ones. Green-Johnson is going on the undercard of Lopez-Marquez, which is a great fight I want to watch anyway. Froch-Abraham is a good fight under almost any definition, and whoever Ward fights will end up on a double-header with that one. The unfortunate part is that Froch-Abraham is happening on the same date as Marquez-Katsidis, which is an even better fight, so I’ll probably end up streaming the Froch fight live and watching the Marquez fight on HBO.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Showtime does cost something.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 11, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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