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Bad Left Hook Fight Preview: Manny Pacquiao v. Antonio Margarito

Speed kills, as Antonio Margarito discovered against Shane Mosley in 2009. (Photo by Donald Miralle/Getty Images)

By now you know the storylines. You know about the plaster elements, you know about Margarito's continual ignorance to anything around him (his team's words, not mine), you know about Pacquiao's troubled oh wait now it's not troubled camp, you know about the singing on Jimmy Kimmel Live and the Congressman Pacquiao and the new camp for Troubled Tony and everything else.

So here's a new spin: Let's talk about their fight.

Junior Middleweights (151-lb. Catchweight), 12 Rounds
Manny Pacquiao v. Antonio Margarito

A couple of years ago, Manny Pacquiao went from hardcore boxing fan favorite to global boxing icon, the biggest face and name in the world of boxing (not just the U.S., but the world). He has been the subject of much non-boxing media fawning and appeal. Hell, this week he was featured on "60 Minutes."

This is because Pacquiao is all things to all stripes of boxing fan. He's a gentleman. He's a character who isn't afraid to cut loose and have fun. There is an air of mystery to his soft-spoken humble nature; unlike almost every fighter of his generation, Pacquiao does not get angry in front of cameras. Even Oscar de la Hoya, the handsome "Golden Boy" who kept boxing commercially viable in the United States during some truly dull years, would put on a forced scowl and act like every other fight was "personal this time." To Pacquiao, it's a job and a passion. He walks the aisle before his fights grinning ear-to-ear, seemingly in awe of his own events. He fights for the people, he says, and for once you can actually believe it's not simply about money. And when the bell rings, he's a stone cold killer.

Pacquiao became that global icon the night he faced Oscar, not just beating him, but embarrassing and flat-out annihilating the former Olympic gold medalist and multi-weight titleholder. The torch was clearly passed that night, as a tired, drained, befuddled de la Hoya slumped on his stool in the corner and trudged back into three minutes of assault, until finally after eight alarmingly one-sided rounds, he walked over to Pacquiao, congratulated his foe, and conceded a fight that many felt would be the mismatch it became -- except it was supposed to go the other way.

Since then, Pacquiao has become one of the hottest names in sports. With a crushing two-round knockout of Ricky Hatton, a domination of a game and very talented Miguel Cotto, and a disappointingly easy decision win over Joshua Clottey, Pacquiao has gone from flyweight (112 lbs.) world champion in 1998 to a man who has claimed a title of note as a super bantamweight (122), featherweight (126), super featherweight (130), lightweight (135), junior welterweight (140) and welterweight (147). Against Margarito, he'll try to tack on an eighth major title in a new division, though it cannot be overstated how shady the title aspect of this fight is. Margarito and Pacquiao will be fighting with an agreed-upon catchweight of 151 pounds, three pounds short of the junior middleweight limit. That in and of itself is not as big a deal as the fact that the WBC is putting its vacant belt up, a typical biased move that benefits either a favored Mexican son (Margarito) or a money machine who has never stepped foot in the division (Pacquiao). I don't even know if Pacquiao has weighed 150 pounds a single day in his life.

As far as the fight itself goes, the most compelling story is the size difference. This is not Miguel Cotto (5'7", 67" reach) or Ricky Hatton (5'7", 65"). Pacquiao (5'6", 67") is not in the same zip code as Antonio Margarito (5'11", 73"). Margarito is a sturdy junior middleweight and was a massive welterweight, which is where much of his success in boxing has come from, along with his formerly-unbreakable chin. Pacquiao will be at the biggest size disadvantage of his incredible, Hall of Fame-bound career.

Of course, similar size did not help Oscar (5'10", 73"), who was overwhelmed mostly by the Filipino's speed, and seemed to feel a bit more power than he expected, to boot. Pacquiao, giving him four inches of height and plenty of reach, made a once-great fighter look foolish. And while Oscar was undeniably past his prime and didn't deal well with returning to welterweight for the first time in years, I would argue that even that version of Oscar de la Hoya was faster of hand and foot than Margarito, who is about as slow as a top-level fighter gets.

It's an issue of speed, most likely. Pacquiao has it in bunches. Margarito has almost none. In his last noteworthy fight, Margarito made an aged Shane Mosley look incredibly fast, and if you go back and look at that tape, Mosley wasn't even trying to put on some sort of speed display. He simply bullied and battered Margarito. Pacquiao won't be able to do what Mosley did; he's not big or physically strong enough to bully Margarito, and Mosley himself seemed prepared to simply walk through anything Margarito might be able to land in return. Manny can't do that, either. But he can use his speed. The 2010 version of Pacquiao is much faster than the 2009 version of Mosley, and he's a southpaw who uses his feet a lot better than Mosley has in the latter stages of his career. Essentially, Shane Mosley has turned into a brawler over his career, and was definitely one by the time he fought Margarito. Pacquiao has more range in his game than that, and even counting the big size advantage, this is a bad matchup for Margarito.

Grading the Fighters

PACQUIAO   MARGARITO
B+ Punching Power B+
A- Hand Speed D+
B Defense C-
B Punch Resistance
B+
A+ Heart B+

I rate them the same for punching power. Margarito is physically stronger, probably, and definitely bigger. But what you can't land on your opponent isn't of much importance, and Margarito is going to really struggle to hit Pacquiao. It would be easy to say that Margarito should box from the outside and use long right hands and left hooks, but Pacquiao is too quick to let him do that easily. Pacquiao would have to be hurt first, knocked off his game, and maybe even a bit desperate to let Margarito use his range properly. Expect Pacquiao to dart in and out, unleash combinations, and look to crack Margarito's chin. Pacquiao's power adds up, even up at these high weights for him, and he has the sort of timing to crack even harder than his pure physical power might dictate.

I'm going to skip a couple of these, but I'll make quick comments: Margarito has terrible hand speed and his defense sucks. His defense has always been his chin. So let's talk chins. I rate Margarito higher, but with an asterisk (hey! Margarito and an asterisk!). I do not think he has a phenomenal chin anymore. Shane Mosley beat him from pillar to post, and once guys start losing the ability to resist punches, they don't get it back. I also said earlier this week in the Boxing Bulletin blogger roundtable that I feel as though the half-legendary, half-notorious fight with Miguel Cotto set that in motion. The punishment Margarito took in that fight was astounding, and because he came back into it to beat Cotto down in the end, that is often overlooked. Compared to the Mosley fight, which was a one-way beatdown, Margarito didn't really take less punishment against Cotto, he just survived it. With Mosley, he was not the fighter he was in the Cotto fight. You can blame mental issues (which would be his own fault) or the weight problems he was supposedly suffering before the fight, but he was not the same. I am inclined to believe that he simply has taken too much punishment to rate higher than a B+ on the chin scale anymore.

As for Manny's chin, it's good but not amazing. Though he has thrashed his opposition at 140 and higher, there have been those rare moments where he gets hit, and you can tell Pacquiao feels the power. These guys aren't featherweights hitting him these days, and now he's facing the biggest to date. Is Margarito the best pure puncher of them all? Yeah, probably. Clottey's power has always been overrated for some bizarre reason I've never been able to figure out, and Cotto and Hatton aren't Margarito-strong. If Manny gets hit hard, this could turn on a dime. I don't think there's any denying that.

Star Power

Relevance:

Say what you will about how you're four-square against it, but this fight is huge on the overall boxing landscape. What happens in this fight determines where the next big event comes from, and who's in it. If Pacquiao wins, of course the Pacquiao-Mayweather (or is it Mayweather-Pacquiao this week?) talk begins again. But if Margarito wins, a whole lot of things open up. There'd be talk of a rematch. There'd be talk of a rematch with Mosley, or talk of a rematch with Cotto. (Cotto, by the way, seems the most likely next opponent for whomever wins this fight, or at least that's my instinct.) And it would be the biggest win of Margarito's career. A Pacquiao victory is not earth-shattering, or even unexpected, but a loss could mean any number of things for him. He has said this week that despite the usual chatter, this will not be his last fight. But I think we can guess that right now, he's prepared to leave victorious.

But all the future aside, this is a huge event and has an outside chance of being the biggest fight of 2010, though I suspect it's unlikely to beat Mayweather-Mosley on pay-per-view sales.

Good Fight Potential:

Say what you will about Margarito being this or that, but for the most part his career has been pretty exciting to watch. Even when he got smoked by Mosley, it came in an entertaining fashion. I don't think this fight can be bad, really. The Pacquiao-Clottey fight was bad, but Clottey has always been a stink-out artist whose most entertaining fights have come seemingly by accident. If Margarito is going to lose, he won't do it quietly.

Overall Pre-Fight Score:

Now you can say what you will and I'm all ears. Its relevance to boxing and the fact that it should at least be entertaining enough to watch keeps it up here, but my God in heaven does this fight reek from every other standpoint. Margarito doesn't deserve this fight. He hasn't won a fight that mattered in over two years. And then there's all the other stuff. You know, the disgrace to his sport stuff. That stuff. This is a pure money grab for everyone BUT Margarito, who is going to make big bucks but is also looking to re-establish himself as a legitimate fighter.

Prediction

I might be wrong, as anyone might be trying to pick a fight, but I don't think this is going to be particularly competitive. I look for Pacquiao to employ his speed, timing, and masterful use of angles to completely overwhelm and systematically destroy Margarito, who used to be like the Terminator but now I suspect is more like Arnold in Terminator 3 with all the wrinkles and bad jokes. No longer could you believe in his mechanical badassery, because the times they had a-changed, and he just wasn't who he was before. If Margarito wins this fight, it will be because he's the first man in a good while to land a huge shot on Pacquiao. The last time Manny took many clean blows was his 2008 rematch with Juan Manuel Marquez, which now seems like a dog's age in the past, and was at 130 pounds. Margarito has a puncher's chance and that's it. I don't think he's good enough to capitalize on the advantages he has, or good enough to keep Pacquiao from utilizing the advantages that Pacquiao has. Pacquaio TKO-9

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As you may recall, I broke down the Margo-Pac fight and picked Pac. I have now changed my mind. The breakdown still stands, but predicted outcome shifts in favor of Margo. Why?

1) Margo’s big size advantage

2) Manny’s susceptibility to getting hit with uppercuts

3) Margo’s ability to launch malefic uppercuts without telegraphing them as in dipping down before he let’s go.

4) Manny’s many distractions.

by Kid Blast on Nov 10, 2010 10:08 PM EST reply actions  

Forgive me Ted, but I’m going to post some counterpoints.

1) Depends on how that size is used. Someone with his dimensions but with boxing skills, say a Tommy Hearns type would, of course keep Manny away at distance and blast him out from long range. In many ways, all Tony is is a huge target. He won’t step out of range and jab if Manny tries to close—he’ll trade. That’s Margarito’s nature. Up close, the faster man with the shorter reach has the advantage. Tony might land a few but he’s no one punch closer. If Manny feels something he doesn’t like, he’ll spin out of there in a jiffy with his wonder wheels and find new real estate from which to fire.

2) Team Pacquiao has now had two fights to use as basis to correct this mistake: Cotto and Clottey. Cotto landed the uppercuts when Manny got all macho and stood in front of him. Clottey hit him while an increasingly frustrated Pacquiao tried to coax him into a firefight. I don’t think Manny is going to get “macho” with Margarito. And I don’t think Pacquiao will have to coax Tony into a brawl. Tony will lead, Pacquiao will counter. If Manny gets hit with an uppercut it’ll be in their short exchanges as he himself lands his own shots on the bigger man. I think the moment that happens, Manny will adjust—UNLESS, of course, the first big uppercut that lands is the one that ends the fight. Doubt it.

3) Mostly, refer to number two.

4) I was worried about this a bit at first, I’ll admit. Is he distracted? Maybe, yes. As distracted as Arum and Roach, and HBO have all made out? I don’t think so. See, we’ve all heard this story before, Pacquiao’s many visitors before the Cotto fight, Pacquiao overlooking Clottey… Pacquiao’s history suggests an almost supernatural ability to operate at optimum levels while in the center of the chaotic storm that is Planet Pacquiao.

I believe Pacquiao is in condition. The guy has not ONCE shown up out of shape. Even during his reputed struggles with the scales in the lower weight classes, he dazzled everyone with his stamina, his workrate. The man knows his body. He says the extra weight was getting to him this time so he dropped it. I trust him in this regard. It’s his mental focus that I was concerned about. But not anymore. If he wasn’t motivated before, he will be the moment Margarito puts the pressure on. Pacquiao can be outsmarted and befuddled in the ring, but rarely will the man be outfought. The moment a fight breaks out in the middle of this boxing match, Pacquiao will be motivated. Furthermore, this latest hubbub with Roach getting insulted…I mean, that’s extra motivation, ain’t it?

by Areglado on Nov 11, 2010 3:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Many good points, Areglado and they are well received. One thing though, Manny's face

didn’t look all that good after the Clottey fight and if Margo catches him on the ropes doing tht acho thing, it will have a different impact.

Furthermore, this latest hubbub with Roach getting insulted…I mean, that’s extra motivation, ain’t it?

I’m not sure. Boxers tend to focus at this point of the preperation stage. My sense is that Manny is staying awaty from this stuff.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't disagree with Ted: The Cotto fight took a lot out of Margarito, IMO.

And he was terrible against Mosley, but I don’t know that final conclusion can be reached from the latter.
Maybe Margartio is completely shot. Maybe not. Maybe Manny is in the best shape possible, but I don’t think so.

Manny is much smaller, and if I see him easily darting in and out against Margarito—or If Margarito’s chin looks vulnerable, I’ll be thinking Manny is going to win. On the other hand, Manny busts up, and his aggressive style will present opportunities for Magrartio—who very badly wants to win this fight (and that kind of motivation can mean a lot if a fighter can put himself into a fight)—if Manny is not really on for the match. I believe Margo can do some damage here.
I’d say that Manny might well find himself in more than he bargained for.

by Don From Prov on Nov 12, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Said like a diplomat

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

what an shitty tragedy if you’re right.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Nov 11, 2010 4:04 AM EST up reply actions  

and I pay attention to who you pick (and SC). You have a pretty good record when I’m paying attention, so your prediction concerns me.

"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"

by lcollins1 on Nov 11, 2010 4:05 AM EST up reply actions  

And me as well!!!

But I have very good information on this one.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

At some point as a fighter continues to move up, sooner or later he meets that one guy who simply presents too big of an obstacle to overcome. In away, this reminds me of SRR and Joey Maxim. Some say the heat beat Ray. If so, why didn’t beat Joey?

Traditionally, it has always been more difficult to move up then to move down in weight insofar as being strong is concerned. Manny has blown apart that tradition in an umber of fights, but Margo is not Clottey, Margo is not a shot De La Hoya, and Margo is not a Hatton who was softened up considerably by Mayweather and Lazcano.

Bottom line for me: Manny has not prepared well for this fight and is not ready

by Kid Blast on Nov 10, 2010 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think Margarito is “Margarito” anymore is my chief problem, not that he isn’t shot Oscar or stink-out Clottey.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Nov 10, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

There is definitely that, though Don from Prov and I discussed this and we both agree that Margo’s performance against Mosley was significantly influenced by what happened shortly before that fight. But your point is spot on. No doubt.

by Kid Blast on Nov 10, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That's how I think about it too.

Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)

by Chaos100 on Nov 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the point is sound in theory, but I don’t think “that guy” for Pacquiao is Margarito. I think it would be Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams, if he were ever to fight them.

by taco pal on Nov 10, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Or Vitali Klitschko.

Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)

by Chaos100 on Nov 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

My grandfather always told it to me that Sugar Ray Robinson was more affected by the heat because Maxim was doing so much less fighting, and was a stinkin’ bum. He also was probably on his fifth Canadian Club and ginger, but hey, that was my gramps.

by El Destruyo on Nov 10, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Maxim was the fathest thing from a "stinkin’ bum." He was a slick and iron-chinned guy who I believe is in the Hall of

Fame.Giuseppe Antonio Berardinelli was his real name. He fought115 times and was knocked out only once

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

My grandfather would love to argue with you, but he can’t be heard under the dirt. All accounts of the fight say that Sugar Ray beat himself with the intensity of his attack more than anything, but I can’t exactly find this one on YouTube.

by El Destruyo on Nov 11, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, mate. I remember that one like it was yesterday. SRR was winning I belive but not by much.

Joey was kind of mugging him in the clinches and wearing him down. The thing is, both Sugar and teh Referee, the great Ruby Goldstein collapsed from the heat.
But the argument goes: the heat made no favorites that night and Joey had to endure it like every one else. It took a terrible toll on him as well. It was abrutal fight given the conditions. Joey would never be the same as he won the battle but kind of lost the war. SRR was 131-2-2 at the time.

It’s funny, I was just talking toboth the widow and the daughter of Iris Bob Murphy who fought Joey in 1951 at MSG. Joey won that one in a big upset..
Maybe I’ll meet your grandfather a bit in the future, and we can chat over a cold one while the great boxer in the sky looks over us.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent, SC

I think you covered all bases.

I would add only one thing to quiet any remaining plaintiff questions of Manny’s destruction of the far superior ODLH and the catchweight he employed. Let those who speak ill of that victory come forward…now…with evidence that they believed Oscar, in having returned to welter, had then all but lost _before- the fight as a result of fighting at a lower weight. I have read much revisionist history denigrating that sea-change victory in Manny’s career. The fact is that almost no one predicted that outcome.

As for Saturday, I expect the best and most highly motivated Margarito conceivable to enter the ring. We’ll see what’s left. Manny will attempt to make short change of the balance.

I’m excited as I have been in a long time. I expect a war while it lasts.

by pakinpower on Nov 10, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

I thought before the bout that Oscar would be too tall for Manny. But my tune DID change a bit at the weigh-in when Oscar came in at 145 pounds on the scale. He was gaunt. I still didn’t expect the massacre that lay ahead.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Nov 10, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

We’re all allowed to change our minds and also to be wrong. You and I were in the majority. I though ODLH would wake up and start fighting ….but he became one of the first high profile victims to acknowledge that he couldn’t see the punches that were hitting him.

by pakinpower on Nov 10, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Coming down in weight at Oscar's age,

and so longer after he last weighed WW was not a good idea, but that doesn’t change anything about Saturday night.

I think this one has more to do with how shot Margo is, and how ready Manny is.
Maybe I’m way off.

by Don From Prov on Nov 12, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Me

Ringside Seats, I expect a War. The Difference between Margarito and Oscar is that Oscars Weight Affected him Badly and Oscar didn’t throw Punches plus he looked Intimidated once he felt Manny’s Punch. Margarito will not Stop throwing and if he can land his Upper Cut and back Manny down it will be tough for Manny to Win,

by rgb on Nov 11, 2010 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Assuming that Margarito isn’t somewhat weight-drained or overtrained himself. There have been reports that though he’s “looking” ripped, he’s also looked rather gaunt in the face and has had to take his share of breaks during his workouts. I think for Tony to win, he’ll have to be at his absolute best and Manny will have to be at his absolute worst. Any deviation from that equation amounts to a Pacquiao victory in my opinion.

by Areglado on Nov 11, 2010 2:38 AM EST up reply actions  

My opinion as well , Areglado.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.

by JC40 on Nov 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll be there as well.

Guest of the promoter.

I never, even at his lowest moment, counted Margarito out. Until it’s repeated, his loss to Mosely is still a shock. I wholeheartedly agree with SC that Cotto may very well have taken as much from Margarito as Margarito did him. Well, maybe a little less.

If Manny strikes early like some predict, not only will I be surprised, I might have to listen to him sing. So here’s hoping for at least 8 rounds.

by pakinpower on Nov 11, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

You won't come to Dorhester, but you will go to Dallas. I'm hurt.

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Stone Cold preview SC

I see Margo’s height and reach posing Manny some problems – until the first bell rings ! Then he’s a dead man walking. He walks in – he comes onto Bombs and four punch combos from angles he’s not smart enough to anticipate. He sits back – he gets taken to school like Oscar. Margo’s no real puncher either – he needs to land a shit load and against the likes of Manny…..that aint happenin either Team Trash. When the time comes, PacMan eat s up Tony’s lack of ability to fight backing up – and then things get nasty.

They say the eyes are the windows to the soul – I expect despair to make an appearance around the 4th. Margo will have 60 seconds between rounds to contemplate the Hell that awaits – then Manny puts us all out of our misery/delight in the 5th. PACMAN KO5

"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.

by Goatsnake on Nov 11, 2010 2:32 AM EST reply actions  

I’m all for Pacquiao in this one, but I think KO 5 might be a bit early. I think I’ll go double and say TKO 10. But hell, KO 5 works for me too so long as it’s a firefight.

by Areglado on Nov 11, 2010 2:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I had a re-think and bumped it up from KO3.

"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.

by Goatsnake on Nov 11, 2010 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I guess he isn't

But Margo – even at his best – walks onto so many punches. I agree with the point made re permanent damage inflicted by Cotto – his chin was cracked and against Mosley, his psyche too. He’s damaged goods. Manny’s speed and ferocity + Margo’s incoming vulnerability = early stoppage.

I picked Pacman v Oscar – this will be just as easy but quicker IMO.

"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.

by Goatsnake on Nov 11, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

“I see Margo’s height and reach posing Manny some problems – until the first bell rings ! " LMAO mate .

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.

by JC40 on Nov 12, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice breakdown

I tend to agree with most of the points you make, SC.

I think speed will be the decisive factor. If Margarito was just that little bit faster, with the sort of drive he seems to possess for this fight, I’d give him more than a puncher’s chance. But I think Manny will overcome him with his workrate and speed.

I think despite his reputation Margarito’s will and chin can be broken down (Mosley did it by shooting out of the posts and never letting up; I even think Roberto Garcia broke down Marg’s will – by the end of that fight he was just plodding forward and seemed unable to take it up another gear a la Cotto). Once Manny controls the pace and doesn’t let Marg smother him he will eventual cut him down.

Despite that I’ve been looking around for a (reputable) argument in favour of Margarito. I’ve found one: that guy Dwyer who runs Gambler Advisory. His prediction rate is pretty accurate which, as someone rooting for Pac, concerns me. But I’m not entirely convinced of his argument that Marg will be able to walk Pac down onto the ropes that easily. (He points to the Hatton fight as an example of a fighter successfully – albeit briefly – walking Pac onto the ropes, but I think this is partially due to Hatton’s speed and fast feet; Marg is a plodder). He does make a good point about Marg’s uppercuts but I would hope Pac/Roach have prepared themselves for what is probably the Mexican’s most devastating punch. Anyway, food for thought here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9lEt3MY0Kw

I think it will be a good fight myself. I think Pacquiao is going to keep the pace at a really good rate and eventually slow Marg down for either a TKO in 10 or a fairly dominant UD. The only way I can see Marg winning this is if Pac isn’t up to scratch conditioning wise, gets caught on the ropes and pummelled with body shots. I can’t see Marg having any other game plan, and I definetly can’t see Pac falling into line with that if he’s at 100%.

by MCM on Nov 11, 2010 7:29 AM EST reply actions  

Despite that I’ve been looking around for a (reputable) argument in favour of Margarito.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

He does make a good point about Marg’s uppercuts

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

if Pac isn’t up to scratch conditioning wise

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

1) Margo’s big size advantage

2) Manny’s susceptibility to getting hit with uppercuts

3) Margo’s ability to launch malefic uppercuts without telegraphing them as in dipping down before he let’s go.

4) Manny’s many distractions.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

Fair enough, but...

1. Marg does have a huge size advantage. But I think that can be neutralised, or contained, with speed and movement. Marg is big but slow.

2/3. I would like to think that Pac will have prepared for Marg’s uppercuts. You are right though – Pacquiao doesn’t defend against them. But then, I think the game plan will be to avoid having Marg on top of him.

4. I was worried about this but I not any longer. His camp’s tune has changed in the last two weeks. And if their sentiments can be taken sincerely, Manny attained focus once he hit LA. I think Manny is ready and prepared for this fight. He seems the same as normal going into this fight – pretty loose and happy.

On conditioning, I would have some concerns. But from pictures I’ve seen he actually looks pretty good. In fact, he looks a lot better than he did going into the Clottey bout. I thought he looked pretty pudgy then. He looks to have carried the extra pounds well this time.

Indeed if I have any conditioning concerns with this one it would be with Margarito. I wouldn’t overplay it – because I can’t say he looks really gaunt or anything – but on a few occasions he has looked over-trained. I mean, he weighed 154 a couple of weeks back (shown on 24/7) and it didn’t seem possible that he could take any more off without weakening himself. Plus there have been murmurs about his stopping for rests during media training etc. So right now my concern would rest with Marg; but again I don’t wish to overstate that.

All in all, though, Marg is a real live contender. I think he has a good chance if he comes out fast and can work the body early. If he clips Pacquiao’s mobility he has a very good chance of achieving the upset.

by MCM on Nov 11, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

2) Manny’s susceptibility to getting hit with uppercuts

3) Margo’s ability to launch malefic uppercuts without telegraphing them as in dipping down before he let’s go.

by Kid Blast on Nov 11, 2010 10:18 AM EST reply actions  

He'll probably do what he is paid to do.

Whatever that is I have no idea.
He’s one of the worst.

by pakinpower on Nov 12, 2010 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

And he gets the best assignments!

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey Scott, great work as always.

I don’t think of Margarito as a hard one-punch puncher at all, I think of him as a volume puncher who throws every shot with power and wears his opponents down with constant pressure. I don’t think he’s as hard a pure puncher as Cotto, and Manny walked through his shots without being hurt by them (though he was momentarily stunned a couple of times). I feel confident that Manny can absorb any single shot from Margarito without much trouble. Then again, you never know.

by Antwonomous on Nov 12, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions  

You “Antwonomous” from the Rumble?

Margarito’s shots don’t really “pop” but they are thudding. A lot of it has to do with the speed of course. No speed, no pop. Still the guy has enough mass behind him that those shots have a cumulative effect, especially on guys smaller than him. So in this fight it’s going to be a question of whether he can land enough on Pacman. I don’t think so. He might land a substantial amount but at what cost? Pacquiao using his head as a double-end bag?

You’re right about Pacman’s chin-display against Cotto. When doing his macho thing against Miguel, he shrugged off some shots because he was prepared for them. But even the shots that caught him by surprise, Pacquiao took remarkably well. What I’m saying is ever since he began his legendary weight climb, one of the things that’s always been brought up is “Sure, he’s good, and he’s fast, but these guys are bigger, stronger, and all it will take is one good shot from these guys…” I think by now, we should know—Pacquiao can take a shot.

by Areglado on Nov 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

But if he is ahigh volume puncher, he has to have some hand speed, Areglado. I think his speed is deceptive and sneaky.

Pacquiao can take a shot

Agreed, but his face still looked pretty puffy after the Clottey deal.

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

But if he is ahigh volume puncher, he has to have some hand speed, Areglado. I think his speed is deceptive and sneaky.

I’m not sure I agree with that, Ted. Some fighters are high-volume punchers precisely because they lack speed. They have to make up for that deficit somehow, and that is by throwing a lot.

Yes, Pacquiao did get puffed up. Not surprising, really given how clean Clottey caught him those few times.

by Areglado on Nov 12, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

HHmmm. Ok , we will agree to disagree.

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his lack of speed is greatly overstated.

He’s slower than Manny for sure….but to outright dismss his years of success in landing punches in bunches is getting, if not dangerous in it’s underestimation, then a bit silly

by pakinpower on Nov 12, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Cintron and Golden Johnson might dispute that.

But you are right. He wears his opponents down. However, he also breaks up their faces. He has heavy hands and once he senses the end, he becomes a killer. A prime Margo was my favorite stalk, stun, and kill type of fighter. The issue here is whether Mosley knocked the prime out of him

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Meant for Antwonomous

What is an "Antwonomous"?

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

by Kid Blast on Nov 12, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm guessing

It’s an Antwone who is anonymous.

If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss

by BoxAnne on Nov 12, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

And Cotto.

Shane may have finished what Miguel truly started.

by pakinpower on Nov 12, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

P.S.--Win or lose, how is Margartio

who made a career of stealing other fighters hearts with his heart—rated in the B’s for heart, Scott?

When did he ever back down?

by Don From Prov on Nov 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST reply actions  

Never.

The man has never disappointed fight fans in the ring. He comes to war. and has been one of boxing’s great attractions, if not in numbers then in action.

Win or lose (badly) AM is worth watching.

by pakinpower on Nov 12, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The first round will tell the whole story. Manny will shoot the left. If Margarito takes it like nothing Pacquiao doesn’t make it out the 3rd. If he does feel it than Margarito doesn’t make it out the first

by Eugene Banks on Nov 13, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

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