Monday's Weekend Boxing Review: Pacquiao-Margarito, Haye-Harrison, Mike Jones, Guillermo Rigondeaux and More
Mondays are going to be home to a new feature on Bad Left Hook, as we offer some further and possibly final thoughts on the past weekend in boxing. Some weekends are going to be huge -- like this one -- and some won't. But we'll do those, too. On those Mondays, I might wind up talking about weird dreams I had with 8-bit Nintendo making a massive commercial comeback with new dust-proof cartridges of all your favorite games, but we'll see. I like to have a good time.
Manny Pacquiao
If you let him hit you enough, he'll break your face.
There has been talk after recent fights about where Pacquiao stands all time. At this point, and I admit I'm not by any means a serious historian, I have to think it's getting pretty high. The man has done things that are unheard-of in the sport's history. The top tier greats either already have new company at the dinner table, or it's just a matter of waiting until more people accept how special Pacquiao's career has been. I've said this before, but seriously, when you watch Pacquiao fight now, doesn't it seem completely absurd that he was the flyweight champion at one point? That's maybe the most remarkable thing of it now that we have the larger scope and see him not just winning at 135, 140, 147, and (again, bogus) 154 -- he used to be 112. Hell, he started below that.
Pacquiao's offensive mastery has to have peaked (it just has to), but he seems to be getting better and more economical using his legs defensively, too. He eliminated Margarito's reach advantage for the most part, and though the spectacle of their different heights was alarming at first, by the fifth round or so it was forgotten as Pacquiao just picked Margarito apart and tore him to pieces.
With greatness comes expectations. We're talking about him fighting the middleweight champion, for God's sake. That's incredible.
Antonio Margarito
If you break his face, he still won't quit.
Determination is a hell of a thing. Margarito plodded and stalked his way through 12 rounds, which by the end were getting pretty vicious. The first 9 or 10 rounds had a tenseness, with the feeling that Manny just couldn't make a mistake or he might get in serious trouble. Margarito landed a hard uppercut at one point that shook Pacquiao up, and he had Manny in mild trouble with some body shots. But he just couldn't hit enough for it to really add up to the point that he could totally slow Manny down, or at least slow him down enough that Margarito's bursts of offense were only bursts, rather than sustained effective pressure. Three things I'm sure about: Margarito should have quit, his corner should have waved the towel, and Laurence Cole should have stepped in at some point. But none of that happened, and I understand why it didn't happen. This was a huge fight, Margarito's likely only chance in something this big again, and even if it's not really possible (though we've had some good discussion whether or not that's the case), he was fighting to redeem himself in some way.
Margarito needs surgery on his busted-up face now, so he'll be out a while. But you are going to see him in a money fight next year, especially if those early PPV estimates are true. Manny did the heavy lifting there, I believe. Manny was the star, yes. But if we're really talking about DOUBLE what Manny did against Clottey (which did have to compete with March Madness, to be fair), then that says a lot about Margarito having a fanbase or at the least being a fighter who can sell as a bad guy. He'll get a shot next year, maybe against Cotto again, maybe against Mosley again. When you factor in money, memories do grow short. I'll never like the guy, and I'm sure there are plenty of folks who will just boycott all of his fights, but there aren't enough of those to impact business decisions.
David Haye-Audley Harrison
This fight was such a farce when all was said and done that the British Boxing Board of Control is investigating and deciding whether or not to take some or all of Audley Harrison's money. While I think that's way too far for a fight everyone knew was crap when it was signed, I'll admit that I'm not one of those who paid to see it. Without meaning to give offense to any of the fine people who did pay to see it -- live or on Sky Box Office -- I will say that if you expected anything truly more than what we got, you were either being delusional or you were sort of ignorant to Audley Harrison's career. It's one thing to take a dump on the fight, it's another to start demanding money because there's a feeling Harrison cheated anyone. Harrison cheated no one. He was just Audley Harrison.
But forget about Audley, since everyone will be trying to do just that from now on. David Haye continues to frustrate people like me. I would say there's "no reason" he shouldn't be fighting the Klitschkos, but of course there are reasons. For one thing, he can make money fighting third-tier opponents. The Klitschkos are stuck doing the same right now. Dereck Chisora isn't as bad as Audley, but compared to Wladimir Klitschko? Please. Vitali has had to fight Albert Sosnowski and Shannon Briggs this year, and both of them did their best and fought bravely, but were never competitive, and weren't going to be, either. And the WBC's big idea? An eliminator that includes Ray Austin, who once lost to Wladimir in two rounds, with Wlad never throwing a right hand.
The division's a mess, and don't expect Haye to face a Klitschko next. Ruslan Chagaev is probably next to get another crack in the WBA merry-go-round.
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux, the Cuban amateur legend now 7-0 (5 KO) as a pro, struggled some with Ricardo Cordoba on Saturday night, but I still felt he clearly won, and that the 114-112 card for Cordoba was a bit silly. Rigondeaux had a much tougher time with the crowd at Cowboys Stadium not taking to his amateur style, but considering he's 30 years old and had that not just hammered into his mind over the years, but also seen it be incredibly effective for him, there's no reason at all to expect he'll change what he does in the ring. Rigondeaux is going to win some titles and beat some good fighters. Cordoba's a good fighter and he beat him. But he'll never be a star.
Brandon Rios
Rios is sort of the opposite of Rigondeaux. I love watching Rios fight, but right now he kind of reminds me of Antonio Escalante, who was blown up something fierce by Daniel Ponce de Leon in September. Rios might not win major titles, but he's going to be on TV a lot for as long as he's fighting. Even clearly out of shape and fighting on short notice, he was willing and able to just walk through Omri Lowther en route to a fifth round stoppage. Rios is tentatively slated to face the winner of the Humberto Soto-Urbano Antillon fight in December. I'm not sure he beats either of them, or even does particularly well, but I know this: he'll make it exciting, and they're going to have to earn it. Oh! And I almost forgot, but it's impossible to remember Brandon Rios from last week without mentioning it. The jerk store called, and they're runnin' out of Brandon Rios.
Boy, Mike Jones had to claw and luck his way through this one. I wonder, really, if the chance to show what he can do in front of such a big audience just got Jones way, way, way, way, way too excited. The furious assault he unleashed in the second round was impressive and fun to watch, but he also wasn't, like, zeroed in. He had Jesus Soto Karass on the ropes, but wasn't landing as much as he might have thought. It was like Jones was off in some other world, seeing tomorrow's headlines ("Mike Jones Steals The Show!" on a swirling newspaper, etc.), and just losing grip on reality. Mike Jones went, to quote Paulie Walnuts, "bonks**t" in the second round against Soto Karass, and emptied his own gas tank. I thought JSK took over most of the fight from there, and Jones was clearly giving away rounds to get his strength back. JSK fought through blood and showed his toughness. He's a solid, strong fighter that can take some punishment. Great upper-tier gatekeeper for 147 as it stands now, which also makes him a borderline top 10 guy at 147 as it stands now. Jones has talent, and he has the size to do some good stuff. I think you can look at this fight as a learning experience for him.
George Groves
Groves really had a tough time with Kenny Anderson on the Haye undercard, but again, I think this is a learning experience. Plus I already didn't think he was as good a prospect as James DeGale, so nothing changed for me personally on that score. I bet DeGale is salivating at the thought of getting Groves in the ring soon for a grudge match now, if he wasn't before. Groves is still a really good prospect, but I think we're looking at a guy who will have to fix flaws, while DeGale is a guy who will have to fix his approach a little bit. On the positive side, Groves overcame two knockdowns and stormed back to finish Anderson off with some great punching, so he proved there's already grit in there. Some guys get knocked down like that and just don't come back from it.
Jose Benavidez
The 18-year-old super prospect struck again at Cowboys Stadium, stopping his opponent in three rounds this time, improving to 9-0 (9 KO) on the year. He's slated to return on December 4 in Anaheim, facing powerless journeyman Justo Sanchez (17-25-1, 0 KO), which will likely make him an even 10-0 in his first year as a pro. This kid's going to be a P4P contender in a few years.
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As a Margarito Fan all I can Say is that Pacman is Great. I read in a Article in Boxing Fanhouse that Pacman was in Pain from the Body shots he Took from Margarito and he had a Private Doctor visit to make sure he was Ok.
I think Pacman’s next opponents are as Follows Mosley,Marquez,Martinez or Williams. I didn’t include Floyd cause it Won’t happen.
Cotto vs Margarito Rematch is already being Discussed by Arum.
Cotto vs Margarito is a natural for many reasons
The re-match.
They are both runner-ups in the Pacquiao sweepstakes.
they have both been run over by Pacquiao.
The are both Top Rank fighters.
Plus, they both want the big fights.
I know Cotto wiill take it.
I assume Margarito will.
Lastly, who would NOT pay to see this one.
A lot of people, because it doesn’t involve Pacquiao or Mayweather. They’ll do about 350K on PPV for a Cotto-Margarito rematch.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Understood.
But Manny can’t be in every equation.
And Floyd simply isn’t. It will be hard enough to get him to fight Pacquiao given the court’s schedule, let alone his own resistance. Plus, now he has the same problem as Manny with Shane. He won’t get much reward for fighting Manny’s leftovers.
Plus, 350,000 PPV is a lot without the biggest names.
At least it used to be.
It’s a good showing, but there’s a loooot of people who wouldn’t pay to see it. I think their first did 450K? I might be mistaken, but that sounds right.
Still, they’re both damaged goods and I bet the promotion of that fight would make me vomit.
And of course I’d buy it. But I’d prefer it be an HBO World Championship Boxing main event, where it belongs.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly, I don't have much of a stomach for it either
But I would buy it.
Who do you think would win if they do meet?
Cotto.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
After the shots he took against Cotto--
After the shots he took against Shane—
After the shots he took against Manny—I’d have to guess that Margo should be about ripe for Cotto.
In all honesty, I don’t think that the fight would interest me: They are both done at the very top of the sport—
And someone is just going to take a nasty beating. Nasty beatings don’t really interest me like they did when I was young.
In fact, they worry me.
by Don From Prov on Nov 16, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
1st time I saw Groves
and I was really impressed. Clearly he needs to work on defense and some other things but he is a lively guy that likes to bang and is a fun one to watch. Hopefully we will get more TV time as his career goes on.
Rigondeaux lost fans IMO
The crowd noise was the tell.
Me, I though I was looking at a Floyd impersonation.
Too damn parsimonious for my taste.
If I’m the promoter I go all out trying to make Margarito/Mosley 2 happen ASAP
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2010 9:25 PM EST reply actions
great storyline to the fight. Both men are coming off huge fights. Biggest money fight for either guy.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 16, 2010 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
If Shane is given a chance he doesn't deserve but might get fighting Manny
that is far more money for him. Manny gets 700 PPV v Clottey. He is that A side and the B side attrraction. Fighting him now is the best money any fighter can hope to make.
Problem is, Shane is not coming off any such thing. I his last two fights he lost badly to Floyd and then barely beat a bad Sergio Mora.
Margarito just got beat to a pulp. I guess you could call that huge…but I wouldn’t.
then barely beat a bad Sergio Mora.
The Mora fight was a draw….
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
even worse
nevertheless, i still dont see how a promoter can see this as the biggest fight for either/both fighters.
certainly not as big as margarito/cotto
I agree with you on this, BB
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
Maybe we give Mike Jones a pass.
He has skills but man did he fight a stupid fight.
Maybe it was the bright lights.
Or maybe he’s just not that bright.
JSK was awesome. He set the tone for the night. How he survived to all but chase down and beat Jones was tremendous. He gave the Mexican fans a lot of momentum going into the main event.
But then came Manny.
Followed by reality.
He already got a pass: they gave him that decision.
Jones merits scrutiny moving forward after a performance like that, against a gritty fighter who wasn’t supposed to be (and isn’t) in his skill class. I think there will likely be a place for him in the welterweight division as a far-from-stacked division clears out, but the question is, will that place be earned, or be by default?
by El Destruyo on Nov 16, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
He got the opportunity and all but blew it.
But his record said he won. Plus the fight was entertaining. He’ll be back. He better be better.
I suspect it will be a learning experience
When I was watching it, I said it reminded me of Haye-Thompson. Jones is lucky he didn’t get knocked out. He’s still a work in progress though. More consistently applied workrate would be nice. Before last night, I thought he would beat Kell Brook with ease, but now I’m not so sure. Now I just need Wale Omotoso and Brad Solomon do do poorly in a fight so my bubble can be burst with every welterweight prospect I like.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Chagaev
Cannot fight in the UK so it won’t happen.
I hope it’s Wladimir next at a packed Wembley Stadium.
Why can't he fight in the UK?
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
He carries the Hepatitis B antigen. Hasn’t made him ill so far though and he’s deemed as non infectious but I’m no quack.
I thought it was only Finland (in Europe, anyway) that wouldn't allow him to fight?
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
Damn.
I’d actually be all for a Chagaev fight.
(DISCLAIMER- the above comment is only factually correct when Mr W Klitschko and Mr V Klitschko are removed from the equation….)
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
I was and wasn't impressed with Groves
Walking in their with the arrogance to think he is untouchable instead of using his brain was really dissapointing. But the heart he showed along with the finishing ability was great. Not the biggest puncher but he sure can pick them. I wouldn’t say Degale’s in another league untill his fight with Smith. Degale has had it easy so far, and this will be a test. He won’t have it all his own way, lets see what happens when the heat is on. Plus Groves can only learn from this experience.
Pacman = A whole different league. Mayweather was my P4P champ before saturday, but to hell with that now!
I love this format, Scott.
A weekly sounding off about what we have seen this weekend. It’s the ideal soapbox from which you can give vent to frustrations, give praise where necessary, in fact pretty much express anything you like in a structured way.
It is everything I thought it would be, and it’ll only get better. :)
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)

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