My First One: Lavern Roach v. Georgie Small, 1950
Ted Sares is back at Bad Left Hook tonight with a tragic memory from 60 years ago, the night when Lavern Roach fought Georgie Small on CBS.
* * * * * * * *
Boxers last only a short time, but managers go on forever.
--Joe Greb
Gus Dundee and Buddy Brannen met in the movie The Harder they Fall and Buddy rendered a terrible beat down on Gus who thereafter suffered from severe headaches and brain damage going into his next fight with the Argentinean giant, Toro Moreno. The feather-fisted Moreno knocked the helpless Dundee out. He then lapsed into a coma and died. Max Baer was suitably cast as the menacing Brannon. Gus, of course, was badly damaged goods going into the Moreno fight and everyone knew it except the naïve Toro.
This was make-believe and it made for great theater and arguably one of the very best boxing movies ever made. What was not make-believe was that Ernie Schaaf compiled a record of 49-15-1 that included wins over Max Baer, Jim Braddock and Tony Galento. In August 1932, he was decisioned by Baer in a rematch. However, he was actually saved by the bell when Baer knocked him out with seconds remaining in the fight. Six months later, an equally feather fisted Primo Carnera, to whom Toro Moreno was compared, knocked out Ernie in 13 rounds. Schaaf died four days later. Many believe the injuries suffered in his bout with Baer contributed to his death. Schaaf, of course, was the fictitious Gus Dundee.
Roach vs. Small
The first such chilling fight I witnessed was on television when I was in grade school (I was around 13 at the time).
Raymond "Lavern" Roach, 26-4, and Georgie Small, 38-6, met in February 1950. Small was a Brooklyn-born Jewish middleweight (and I still stay in touch with his son). Other outstanding great Jewish athletes out of Brooklyn at that time included the great Max Zaslofsky, Harry Boykoff, Hy Gotkin, Sid Tannenbaum, and boxers Al Davis, Georgie Kaplan, and Davey Feld. Roach was a good looking tough ex-Marine out of Texas.
This was a televised middleweight fight from St. Nicholas Arena in New York City which, I recall, took place on a Wednesday night and I believe Don Dunphy was at the mic. Back then Jimmy Powers was doing the fabled Friday night bouts. Hundreds of thousands would watch it of over the CBS network telecast. The setting was quintessential 50's.
Roach was well ahead in the fight and seemingly on his way to an easy points win. His reward would be a match with Sugar Ray Robinson. Suddenly Small uncorked a desperation shot in the eighth stanza that landed squarely on the ex-Marine's jaw. It was a right hand blow. The tide of the fight changed just like that.
The blow ripped into Roach like a sledge hammer and the blood immediately gushed from his lips and mouth. Bleeding profusely and staggering, he managed to hang on until the bell rang. While he somehow made it through the ninth using every survival trick he knew, he was a bloody mess and the one-sided assault continued through the tenth until another crunching right put Roach down like he had been sapped. Everyone in our house, my Dad, my friends, started to scream "Stop it! Stop it!" Little did I know at the time that I would repeat this scream many times in the future. The fans at ringside were doing the same, and referee Frank Fullam did just that, but just as he did another shot sent Roach sprawling. Unfortunately, the damage already had been done.
As Lavern lay glassy eyed on the blood-spattered canvas, he motioned that he was ok, but he was anything but. All of a sudden, he went slack eyed and unconscious. We all said "oh no, oh no," because our instincts told us that something very bad was happening. The raw-boned Texan quickly lapsed into a coma. Fourteen hours later, Lavern Roach, just 24, passed away from a subdural hemorrhage in St. Clare's Hospital.
We had watched this one from the safe confines of our living room and it was my first chilling experience witnessing a ring fatality. Though I have seen far too many since 1950 (including Paret-Griffith, Mancini-Kim, Classen-Scypion, Wangila-Gonzalez, Johnson-Chavez, Tomasello-Dotse, and Scottland-Jones), this is the one that has stayed with me through the years. Thank God, the fight had been televised in black and white. The amount of blood that flowed was beyond description.
Roach vs. Cerdan
But wait. There is more to the story. Less than two years previously, Roach had been badly beaten by the legendary Marcel Cerdan, 105-2 at the time in front of 17,000 fans in Madison Square Garden.
He had been clubbed to the canvas three times in the second round and four more times in the eighth as Cerdan's monster blows continued to rain down upon him. As he crawled around the ring, the slaughter was finally and mercifully stopped after eight punishing rounds. The Texan had been brought along too fast to fight the likes of the great Frenchman, even though Laverne had taken the measure of tough and favored Tony Janiro in 1948.
Two things contributed to Lavern's elongated beating. First, when he had been slugged and mugged to the canvas in the second round, he was dazed and waited for the count, but timekeeper Jack Watson didn't begin one until the referee ordered him to do so. Watson finally did and Roach got up at the count of 9 with the entire fiasco using up 32 seconds. As it turned out, Lavern would have been better served had he been counted out.
The second thing was the fact that just when Roach appeared ready to go, he would fight back with just enough to stay in the fight. Indeed, he was still countering in the seventh, but things finally ended in the eighth stanza when referee Artie Donovan put an end to what had become a slaughter. The accumulation of brutal punishment and numerous knockdowns over 8 rounds had been mind boggling. Still, up until that beat down, Lavern had been 23-1 with his only loss coming at the hands of rugged New Yorker Artie Towne, a gifted boxer with a great record (who fought as one Henry Johnson when he beat Roach). In fact, Roach had been Ring Magazine's Rookie of the Year in 1947.
After the Cerdan massacre, Roach said goodbye to boxing and went back home to peddle insurance, but after two years and a few warm-up fights, he would come back in the ring, likely as badly damaged goods. He was back in for one last time.
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GOOD THURSDAY BADLEFT HOOK BOXING BRICKKHAUS SCOOTT CHRST TED 1950 SMALLS ROACH SARES GREAT ARTICLE TED YOURBEST FRIEND RAYGORDONREID WAYCROSSGEORGIAJANUARY1/11/1955 WOWTED BRICKJHAUS SCOTCRIST I STARTED WATCHINGBOXING ONBLACKWHITE THEN COLOR THATS PLENTY OF BOXING THIS WEEK PAULWILLIAMS MICHAEL KATS NEXT SATURDAY BYE CARL COBRAFROCH
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Marcel Cerdan
Lover of Edith Piaf, conqueror of one, James Toney.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions
And great fighter.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Not very French at all, really.
Knowing that they are not a great boxing nation gives me a little confidence walking around here but then one realises that I’m deep in French rugby country and they all look like second row forwards, as wides as they’re tall.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Tragic… but it’s occupational hazard, I guess.
by erasedcitizen on Nov 18, 2010 10:54 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Roach vs Small
As soon as I saw the names I knew one of them was part of a tradgedy. Roach was too tough for his own good. Like Griffith and Paret it was the fight before that Fullmer pounded Paret. Roach lost big time to Cerdan before this. Nice story and reminder of the danger boxers go through when they enter the ring.
Ken, the Fullmer-Paret comparison is pure Old School
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
First, I thought of Fullmer/Paret leading to Griffith/Paret--
But another, with no prelude that I know of, that unnerved me was Willie Classen.
Fight should have been stopped between rounds—
In retrospect, right?
Just out of interest, Ted do you think
that the Locicero and Sibson KO’s of Classen were vicious enough to draw a direct and clear line to the Scypion tragedy?
The story here is that Classen was a middleweight journeyman who
had been in the ring with tough competition, guys like Eddie Mustafa
Muhammad and Vito Antuofermo. Just a month after being knocked
out by Sibson in London, Classen took on unbeaten Scypion at the
Felt Forum in New York City. Scypion had destroyed all opposition
coming in, but the opposite was true for his doomed opponent.
Prior to the Sibson blow out on October 9, he was KOd in 8 at the
felt forum by bomber John LoCicero. He fought Wilford Scypion a
little over a month after being iced by Sibson
Classen had been decked a couple of times in the fight from shots
from that would have sent other fighters into dreamland. Clearly,
he was in very bad, indeed, dangerous condition going into the final
round. Hell, after the ninth stanza, he needed the assistance of the
ropes to get back to his corner. Then, just seconds after stumbling
from his corner for the start of the 10th round, he was knocked out
of the ring by Scypion. Ringsiders stood up and hollered for referee
Lew Eskin to stop it right there and then, but it was not to be.
After this tragedy, Wilford Scypion would never be the same fighter,
the one who fought with fury and even perceived meanness. He had
lost the edge. He finished 32-9 and seemed to lose every time he
stepped up.
Whether or not Willie Classen was damaged going into this fight
is open to debate. What is not is that he had been knocked out by
Tony Sibson only one month prior.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Yes. And then they had no ambulence and they had to wait. The fight led to some reforms
so like aplane crash, some “good” came from it, but it was terrible to see him stumble out with no idea where he was. It was a lamb being thrown to the wolves.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I saw him fight a draw with super slick Vinnie Curto is the 70's when I worked in NYC
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Drawing with
Curto is a pretty fair accomplishment, no?
Powerful writing, tragic story
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
From Boxing is my Sanctuary:
As soon as I entered the smoke-filled auditorium and heard the ooohs and
aaahs, I sensed immediately what kind of fighter was in there. Then I heard, "Oh
my God, he missed him," and "did you see that move?" That’s when all doubt
was removed.
The guy who was fighting that night in Boston was slick Vinny Curto, 43-5-3
at the time, and he was making crafty side-to-side, stick and get-out moves. Slipping
and dipping, he was countering well against his ferocious looking opponent.
By employing all the tricks, he was nullifying his opponent style and taking away
his game plan. Soon, he would take away his spirit. But this wasn’t just any opponent;
it was none other than Bad Bennie Briscoe, 64-20-5 coming in.
Curto, who was in the middle of a 29-fight undefeated streak, belonged to a
fraternity of fighters with a long and proud tradition. Perhaps the first name that
comes to mind is Willie Pep, but Jimmy Young cannot be far behind. There have
been many others over the years and there are some out there now. Names like
Billy Conn, Jersey Joe Walcott, Bobo Olson, Nicolino Locche, George Benton,
Tyrone "Butterfly" Crawley, Pernell Whittaker, James Toney, young Vernon
"Iceman" Paris, and Floyd Mayweather Jr. quickly emerge. All smooth boxers
with outstanding defensive skills
Sometimes they are flashy like Kid Gavilan or stylish like "El Feo" Rodriguez,
but more often than not, their calling card is reliance on a crafty persona. They
fight in a way that controls the attacking opponent by redirecting his energy,
almost like in aikido. Sometimes, they are so relaxed they hardly look like they
are fighting. After throwing lightening fast combos, they might move out and
kind of evaluate things and then move back in with something different. Sometimes
they even look bored, and then all of a sudden cut loose with an explosion
of offense that keeps the other guy off balance. At times, they can torment and
humiliate their opponents.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I have to share this email from J.J Johnston,former boxer,, boxing writer (books), actor, and former Chicagoan (my age) who now lives in Hollywood.
TED…I ALSO SAW THE FIGHT …IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I SAW A FIGHTER DIE
IN THE RING ON T.V…..I WILL NEVER FORGET THE WAY LAVERN ROACH WENT OWN ….HE CRUMPLED IN A UNUSUAL POSITION VERY RELAXED..BUT I KNEW HE WAS NOT GETTING UP…J..J JOHNSTON
J.J. along with Sean Curtin wrote some great stuff on the amatire boxing scene in Chicago. Greta historical value. He is also a fellow-member of IBRO.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I'll be at the Ranch tonight.
I gotta eyeball my bros. cat, which is now a diabetic…
I got the machine set to tape this Sat. night at 10 bells to get the replay of “Packy-Margo.”
I’ll root for Arty Abe to beat Carl Froch…
I recorded a funny, but somewhat korny, comedy with Arnold Schwarz, Sinbad, Rita Wilson and Phil Hartman called: “Jingle All The Way.” Its a holiday season film…
NOTE:
We’ll be moving outta the apartment here and into the new town-home next week…. The new town-home is back in the old hood down the street… The place is being refurbished right now… Yeah, Thanksgiving is gonna be fun this year… I hate moving…
MR.BILL
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Glad to see you back on here, mate. That other thing you suggested is going great. The juice is in the
action.
Tell me what you think of the Margo beat down.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
My eyes are tired so I'm going outside for a walk
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Yes. It is a tough thing to write about fatalities but they are a part of boxing and need to
be documented and written about.
In anser to you question, the Roach-Small fight mayve have been the worse becuase it was happening in plain sight and you knew something bad was going on. Paret-Griffith was horrific as well.
But maybe Scottland-Jones becuase Max Kellerman sais on TV: This needs to be stopped. This is how bad things happen. He is taking a lot of accumulated punishement." Max was right. Bea later died. That was in plain sight as well. Hurtado-Whittaker almos was the same and it was the same referee.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Johnny Owen?
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Horrible, a dark day for boxing. The fans were horrible. Same with Kid Akeem and Robert Quiroga.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I guess there is no worse. They are all terribel
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
True
What are the current stats on deaths annually world-wide? Anyone?
I recall in the 60s that they ran at between 4 – 8 per annum.
There were several fighters from the UK who’d killed an opponent in the ring or whose opponents, more accurately died after a fight.
Bugner, Minter, for two, off the top of my head. I hope I’m right, wouldn’t want to smear them.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, you are right
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Barry McGuigan as well, I think........
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
In 1980, Barry, also known as the "Clones Cyclone," decided to turn professional as a featherweight. But in a tragic event prior to his winning his professional British title, McGuigan knocked out Nigerian opponent Young Ali (real name Asymin Mustapha). Ali remained in a coma for five months before passing away in his homeland. He had been KO’d by Stix Macloud (of Zimbabwe) in the ninth round in Nigeria a year before he met McGuigan, so going into the McGuigan fight, he was 0-1. Barry was 10-1 having just knocked out Gary Lucas two months before this fateful bout in which Ali was knocked out in the sixth stanza. Barry, after a bout with depression and much soul searching, decided to go on boxing.
McGuigan would become British and European Champion in 1983, and in an emotion-packed fight against Eusebio Pedroza, Barry added the WBA Featherweight Title. He dedicated this great win to Young Ali.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Thanks for that, Ted
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 19, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
One yr. in the early 90s the number I saw was 18-20 per yr. on average, of late more like 8-10 per yr. I can’t cite those stats, I noted them at the time and if I can find where I put the notes I’ll add them, it’s very hard to get much in the way of formal, certified numbers of injuries and deaths in any contact sports. Not considered good advertising, methinks. I do remember the 18-20 per yr. stat as being stated by a reporter for a legitimate sports publication, SI or the sports page of a decent newspaper, but the reporter using the stat didn’t source it, I remember wondering where he got it.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Boxing Deaths from 1998 until 2006 MMA Death Rates from 1998-2006
1998 = 2 Deaths in the ring 1998 = 1 Death in the ring
1999 = 6 Deaths in the ring 1999 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2000 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2000 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2001 = 12 Deaths in the ring 2001 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2002 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2002 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2003 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2003 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2004 = 9 Deaths in the ring 2004 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2005 = 7 Deaths in the ring 2005 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2006 = 4 Deaths in the Ring 2006 = 0 Deaths in the ring
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I suspect MMA is underreported
But whatever.
Of course, the numbers for American football are way higher than either of them, but that never gets reported…
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I’m sure you’re right, it’s what I could find. Especially re American football—one thing I notice about it is how much higher the numbers of dead amateurs (high school, college players) is compared with deaths in amateur boxing, where they don’t eat their young like football does.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Ther is one guy out there who devotes most of his time to this. I forget his name. A morbid
pastime IMO. bUT SOMEONE HAS TO DO IT.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Here it is
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
He appears to work alone, that is, it seems to be a private research project. I trust the guy’s sincerity, but wonder where he gets his info, and whether it’s complete re how many. He’s doing more than anyone else is, for sure.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
He has been accepted in the Boxing community, rightly or wrongly, but he has
taken on a morbid task.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
terrible--like my eyes
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Poor old chap.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ha. Just a temprray condition. It will be 100% in about a month. But I did just purchase
hearing aids. I may be breaking down…..
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:Ring_Fatalities
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Indnesia used to have an inordinate number of fatalities, but the problem has been corrected.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Cheers, Ted, I'll look at that link tomorrow but tonight I feel as tired as you and will sign off very soon.
Gotta walk the hound and worry about my own ageing process. Depressing, isn’t it? I know you can give me a few years but next year I’m soixante and that’s a lot! Cheers.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Nov 18, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
You say: “Though I have seen far too many since 1950 (including Paret-Griffith, Mancini-Kim, Classen-Scypion, Wangila-Gonzalez, Johnson-Chavez, Tomasello-Dotse, and Scottland-Jones), this is the one that has stayed with me through the years.”
Which was the worse one you ever saw, not to be gruesome or anything but I want to tap your memory .
I think I may have anserede that on already, big guy.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
DANGER
Boxing is a very dangerous sport, something we sometimes forget. Any one who goes into the ring faces death. It is not alway how hard a punch that land but where the punch lands that does great damage. Any one who boxes gets an A plus for courage, win or loose.
It comes with the erritory
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
t
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.

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