The Aftermath of a Brutal Knockout: What's Next for Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams?
Tonight's brutal knockout of Paul Williams by reigning middleweight champion Sergio Martinez in Atlantic City proved a few things.
- Sergio Martinez is one of the best fighters in the sport today.
- Paul Williams' defensive flaws are a serious issue in his development as a fighter.
- These guys come to brawl with each other.
So now what? Well, I'm glad I asked myself that.
Rubber Match
Williams outpointed Martinez last December in a thrilling fight that could have been called a nail-biter if fans' arms were constantly above their heads cheering on the back-and-forth slugfest. The rematch was a second round demolition job by the Argentinean champion, who drilled Williams with a beautiful, on-the-button left hand in round number two, ending the night in short order.
Paul Williams is no ducker, but there were some complications getting this fight done, and those came from the Williams camp. Is he really going to want a third fight with Martinez? Maybe, maybe not. Would Martinez take a third fight? I'm sure he would. There's still drama there. "The first was a classic, the rematch a brutal knockout, now Paul Williams wants his revenge and Sergio Martinez wants knock him out again," and so on and so forth.
It's up to Williams more than anyone, probably. I'd imagine the money will be there and HBO would gladly televise a third fight between the two. But it's on Paul now. This was a knockout the likes of which can seriously change a fighter.
Sergio Martinez
Martinez's options may seem few at first thought, but there are plenty of options out there.
Dmitry Pirog (17-0, 14 KO) had a star-making, belt-grabbing win over Daniel Jacobs in July, and was highlighted as one of the top middleweights on the HBO broadcast tonight. As we were discussing in the post-fight thread, this is the sort of fight that boxing diehards wouldn't mind HBO "overpaying" to secure.
Felix Sturm (34-2-1, 14 KO) is a long-reigning titleholder who has been near the top of the 160-pound ranks for years now, but only has one notable fight to Stateside fans in his career, his controversial loss to Oscar de la Hoya in 2004. Since losing to Javier Castillejo in 2006, Sturm has gone 9-0-1 against pretty mediocre competition, but is now promoting himself and at 31, might be ready to take the risk and go for the brass ring. He's taken very little punishment in his career and while I think he'd be a clear and heavy underdog against Martinez, he's also got to be considered the No. 1 contender now, by process of elimination if nothing else.
Kelly Pavlik (36-2, 32 KO) could come calling for a remahahahaha, OK, let's move on.
Marco Antonio Rubio (48-5-1, 41 KO) and David Lemieux (24-0, 23 KO) are supposedly lined up for a WBC eliminator in 2011, so maybe late next year the winner between those two will be in line. Speaking of the WBC's ideas, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (41-0-1, 30 KO) has also been placed in line by the sanctioning body, but there is no word from his camp or Top Rank that they're taking that seriously or have any intention to match Chavez with Martinez. If Chavez beats Alfonso Gomez on December 4, Bob Arum says the plan is still to have Chavez face Miguel Cotto in March for Cotto's 154-pound trinket.
If he does not land a fight with Manny Pacquiao, don't be stunned if Shane Mosley (46-6-1, 39 KO) comes into the picture with a 156-pound catchweight. Mosley is willing to promote himself to fight Pacquiao, but if that doesn't happen, he could shift his focus to Martinez and try to land a title -- and this time a legit championship -- in his fourth weight class (Mosley has won belts at 135, 147 and 154). Shane Mosley might be crazy these days to be this ambitious, but he probably is this ambitious.
Y'know, Antonio Margarito (38-7, 27 KO) has a win over Martinez, and Martinez would probably like to avenge that. But of course Top Rank mostly likes to stay in-house, and they'd hate to dent that summer or fall rematch with Margarito and Cotto if they can avoid it.
Paul Williams
Williams' stuff isn't as interesting. Frankly he might just take a rebound fight, or he could rematch Kermit Cintron, or he could seek out Pavlik for the 50th time. There are a lot of fights out there for him, but Paul's future isn't as clear as Martinez's, and it's a lot more wide open. For one thing he could be headed back to 154, where he would have a lot of options, especially now that people might see him as damaged goods. Don't expect the perceived "ducking" of Paul Williams to continue like before. The game has changed for him, and now he's in a position he's never been in before. We'll see where he goes.
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No mention of Zbik, Martinez's official mandatory?
I mean, there’s almost no chance it actually happens (unless someone overpays), but it could throw a wrinkle into future plans.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
The less mention of Zbik, the better, IMO.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Even Jose Suliman is like… quien?
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
the less mention of him the better too
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
paul is still a world class fighter
but he just got DRILLED by the top p4p guy in the “other” p4p list…
id like to see paul take the rubber match…
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
Don’t think Hitman can make 154.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
down
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Seeing him on Sky for the Haye-Harrison fight, Ricky looked, you know, fat, because he’s Ricky, but in good spirits and healthier than before. I hope he stays out of the ring and focuses on promoting. He’s got a knack for it. He’s done a great job so far.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 2:24 AM EST up reply actions
me too.
He can’t redeem that loss…but he could easily get hurt.
I think his KO was scarier than tonight’s. I thought he was dead.
I thought he was seriously hurt. I mean that’s about as clean a KO as you can get. Just brutal. That Hatton got up and walked out is the sort of thing that makes me stand in awe of boxers. I criticize and all that, but what draws me to boxing is the amazing things these guys put themselves through. I could never do it. I have incredible respect for anyone that goes in there, even the guys I joke about or whatever.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I have a bizarre interest in Oscar v. Ricky at 150.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
Isn't that being discussed?
The ‘double comeback’ bout, or something similarly ludicrous?
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
UK reports said Golden Boy proposed to Hatton. Then Dan Rafael decided that promoters never lie and ran a scathing piece where Oscar was like, “No way, Jose! I’m p***ed off about this, no way!” despite the fact that the UK report had a quote from the Golden Boy rep in question, and then Oscar was like, “No, that guy didn’t say that!” If Oscar is pissed, it’s that I suspect he didn’t want the information to leak, but it did. Because I know if there’s anyone believable in boxing, it’s Oscar de la Hoya, who never fibs.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Well, for what it's worth:
Oscar UD-12 in a debatable decision, in which Hatton is the busier and the more effective, but Oscar gets the nod on scorecards of about 116-113
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
Oscar in four
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 22, 2010 5:45 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not going to make a big deal about it, but I think this comment comment sucks.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 21, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yup. Me too.
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
they’re concerned about Pakinpower’s comment: “see who hits the canvas fastest and hardest”.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Had there not been a whole lot of conversation linked to it that would have also disappeared into the ether
I would have deleted it, especially when Matt also said he had an issue with it.
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
I didn’t really have a problem with the comment. I don’t take it as Pakin hoping either guy takes more damage like the KOs they’ve both had.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I didn't think it worth deleting (I could have done that too). I just wanted to express my personal feeling about it.
And move on.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 22, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t mention it, but I thought the post-fight interaction two was some classy shit. With all the garbage we see, I think it’s important to note when guys are cool.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Such a strange and powerfully unpredictable ending
I think Sergio must realize that but for the grace of God that could have been him
Punisher
I hope Paul heads to 154 and tries to establish himself there. Wherever he goes, he’s going to run into some sharks – at 154 he’s got Angulo, Kirkland and others to watch out for. We’ll see.
Right before the fight started I said, “I really like both these guys”.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I always hoped for more from Paul...but he never got better
I do agree. He should find a weight, stay there and learn to fight with what God gave him. His height.
Because it won't happen, especially after that statement from Martinez.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
Where is Dmity Pirog?
He’s been incredibly quiet since the Jacobs win. No rumours, nothing.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
Well, he was extremely quiet before that fight too. Maybe he’s just not into hyping himself up that much.
by erasedcitizen on Nov 21, 2010 9:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
“it is certainly the Knockout of the Year and
has to be a candidate for Knockout of the Decade.” -Kevin Iole
I can’t say I totally disagree. It is pretty early in the decade though, unless he just means the past 10 years in general.
Also, Martinez says Pac is too small for him and it would be a mismatch, ha ha, he has a point, but I doubt he would turn down the fight.
"Mug an old lady, and if you have the right connections the WBO will rank you seventh." -Steve Farhood
But would Pac take that fight?
"I always thought that Crabtree was a hard worker. He's not faking it. He's not the type to hide behind the curtain... he's always been a guy that works hard."
---Roger Craig
Manny might. Manny’s nuts. I think that doesn’t get appreciated enough. But Top Rank surely would not go for it, especially since Martinez says he can’t go below 156 anymore. Pacquiao would be giving up crazy size, and against someone who can actually box, unlike Margarito.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Pirog might be wise to experiecne a few big fights before challenging Martinez.
Lemieux might need more time as well, but he might jump at the shot—
A double-header with Lemieux on a Martinez undercard could stir interest if David faced someone with name-value.
Shane, Margo, and Miguel should be starting to run low on the interest level scale at this point—just an aside.
I agree
I’d like to see Pirog-Martinez – it would be a great tactical match up and fascinating clash of styles – but I still think Pirog isn’t at that level. I reckon P might bum around Europe for a couple of fights, maybe with the likes of Macklin et al.
I actually think Martinez-Sturm might be worthwhile.
For Pwill, I think he’ll probably want the rubber match after a couple more fights against lesser opposition. I think he’s a genuinely determined fighter so I can’t see him being happy without having a crack at revenge. But I think he, his camp and us will only know how serious that knockout was in his next couple of fights. I mean, it was pretty frightening looking. But at the same time it was a perfectly struck, clean, powerful punch and would probably have turned most middleweight’s lights out. Prior to that – and in the first match – Pwill took a lot of Martinez’s best shots really well.
I agree too
& agree Pirog would do well to get a couple or 3 more fights in first. Be great tho.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
That picture makes me cringe
When I was watching the fight I was wondering why the ref was counting. I thought it was obvious he was out cold. And then they showed the replay and his eyes were wide open. Kind of creepy looking…
Awesome knockout though.
Here is one thing about the Williams loss--
Neither of our ATG’s, Manny or Jr., will ever get the same recognition now if they were ever to convincingly defeat Williams.
Whatever flaws where there last night in Williams where always there, but Martinez is the one who gets the credit.
There are right times and smart times to take a chance, and he who does reaps the benefits.
One of the truths about fighting the best, is that you can become the best.
For now Martinez's team are ruling out a rubber match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ssZjplfEc&feature=player_embedded
According to his manager, Martinez won’t rubber PWill for the same reason he won’t fight Pacquiao – it’s a mismatch!
I can see them changing their tune when they realize the money fights at middleweight are hard to muster.
Unless this was just him playing the Goosen-Tutor cameras, in part. They really did Martinez wrong by putting him in the challenger’s corner. Nobody puts this champion in the challenger’s corner!
by El Destruyo on Nov 21, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
He can't fight Pacman
Martinez said he’d go down to 156 at that’s it…..sort of rules out a Pacman fight. Why are we asking Pacman to fight everyone in the world? Give the guy a break….fight someone your own size for a change!
Tis weird
All these ‘Will Pac Now Duck Martinez?’ articles being posted out there.
I think Margarito was the ceiling for Pacquiao. In addition, I think most fans would prefer to see Pac going back down to welter or light-welter to fight the tops guys there.
I'm still trying to get over Manny Steward scoring the first round to Williams.
An amazing yet horrible KO if ya get my drift, I hope Paul takes a loooong ass rest and comes back at 154.
Hey Bernard, could Serg get away with being an honorary “slick, black fighter” and get on the Pac list?
Or is he not slick enough?
I had the first JUST barely to Tall Paul, but waffled and after watching it again this morning believe I was wrong and that Martinez definitely took the first, especially in the second half of the round where he started landing cleaner, better shots.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 21, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Myself and Brick had it for Martinez though, so our overall BLH card was a SD win for Martinez.
SC- 10-9 Williams
Brickhaus- 10-9 Martinez
Chaos100- 10-9 Martinez
Sergio Martinez by Split Decision
Unless you count the second, too, which I definitely scored for Martinez… :)
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
Two out of three of the “actual” judges had it for Williams. Martinez did especially well getting that issue out of the way, quickly.
by El Destruyo on Nov 21, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
What do you mean, 'actual' judges?
It’s like you’re trying to say the SC, Brick and myself weren’t actually there…. :P
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
I was with Scott on the first round. Close for Paul.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 22, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t happen. They’d never make enough money to pay Cintron, Williams and Martinez off one card. I’d love to see Martinez-Pirog too, and I’d like to see Paul go ahead and fight someone like Angulo. That’d be a crazy war, provided Paul still has a beard.
Such were the days, still, hot, heavy, disappearing one by one into the past, as if falling into an abyss for ever open in the wake of the ship; and the ship, lonely under a wisp of smoke, held on her steadwast way black and smouldering in a luminous immensity, as if scorched by a flame flicked at her from a heaven without pity.
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 21, 2010 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think though it would be an interesting clash of styles, Pirog would get outclassed by Martinez. Pirog only has 17 pro fights and the biggest name on his record was Danny Jacobs who is just s prospect himself. Same thing for a Martinez vs David Lemieux fight.
I would love to see David Lemieux vs Dmitry Pirog.
I think you might be underselling Pirog a bit
Martinez has never faced anyone as slick as Pirog, and Pirog can punch a little. While he doesn’t have a ton of pro experience, he’s 30 years old and fought 200+ amateur fights, so he knows what he’s doing in there.
I’d almost rather see Lemieux fight Martinez than Pirog. I think either one gives him a ton of trouble, as he’s still never faced a slick fighter (other than arguably Ayala and Camacho, neither of whom had the opportunity to show any slickness in their fights), but his stock falls a lot less with a loss to Martinez than to Pirog. I want to see Pirog in there with someone like Ishe Smith first though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I’d love to see Lemieux up against Martinez. I’d also love to see Pirog up against Martinez. Heck, I just want to see Sergio Martinez back in the ring ASAP!
Such were the days, still, hot, heavy, disappearing one by one into the past, as if falling into an abyss for ever open in the wake of the ship; and the ship, lonely under a wisp of smoke, held on her steadwast way black and smouldering in a luminous immensity, as if scorched by a flame flicked at her from a heaven without pity.
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 21, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
well i just got back from the houston, and just barely saw so… WOWWWWW
never liked paul williams, so that was pretty much one of the awesomest KOs i’ve ever seen
Texans 17-2 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Nov 21, 2010 5:23 PM EST reply actions
Don From Prov – that’s very true. And people should applaud Martinez for putting it all on the line. He did not fight a safe fight. He went out to KO Williams, to go to war. I’ve been a big Martinez fan since the Bunema fight, but last night was just an exceptional display of guts and ring smarts. Martinez might only fight a couple more times before retiring. We should all appreciate what we have while he’s still here.
PAUL WILLIAMS
Willilams needs to retire before he gets seriously hurt and he may be already damaged. William was on the down hill swing some time before Martinez KO’s him. Paul was really hurt Saturday night and he needs to get out of boxing now.
Martinez is a great fighter and will produce some exciting fights.
Seriously?
He gets knocked out once and needs to retire?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
No One Will Agree, I Guess
but I think it might have looked worse than it was, which might not be saying much. But he came back real fast, and the open eyes that creep everybody out could (I have experienced this, fleetingly in an accidental-fall situation) have been evidence of a type of stunned one millimeter short of fully unconscious—it can be a way to fight for consciousness. Also, if you check the pics Zocalo posted during the RBR thread, you can see him attempting to brace both fists semi-perpendicular to the floor, elbows bent, ineffectually trying to push himself up. He came back real fast, which is the good thing. Nothing like as bad as Hatton (seemed like hours, scared me to death) or Taylor (same), or Figueroa (v Bailey, scary too), none of whom is likely to fight again. .
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Figueroa was a nightmare. Looked like Randall gunned him down with a shotgun.
Then again sometimes it’s the guys who don’t or rarely fall down who really out to retire, where they are just being used for target practice round after round.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
and that overhand right was so fast you couldn’t see it without slo-mo, at least I couldn’t—I couldn’t understand why the kid went down to a left jab for several seconds.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Yes
Bailey has a rocket launcher mounted on his right shoulder. It is a thing of beauty. Nevermind his record. because he will be remembered for that cannon of his.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He’s in alphabet contention at 147 now, too. I say good for him. I like that dude.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 22, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Er….no. Few fighters retire the very first time they get knocked out. Let the doctor decide.
by El Destruyo on Nov 21, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Martinez-Sturm (though I'd much prefer Bute) Williams-Bundrage (though I'd prefer Margarito)
After last night’s fight, I came to agree that Martinez is truly too big for Pacquiao. Looking at Sergio, he is a true middleweight, and a badass one at that. For the same reason, I don’t think Martinez should bother draining himself for catchweight fights with LMWs or WWs. The one exception to that would be Mayweather who of course would not want the fight anyway.
The truly great match for Martinez right now would be Bute, but Bute will be with Showtime for the forseeable future, so I don’t see any way it gets done. Failing that Sergio may want to make big money in Europe and possibly Austaralia against a succession of middleweights beginning with Sturm:
Sturm
Geale
Sylvester
N’Jikam
Pirog
Some of these will likely cancel eachother out. Geal may fight Sylvester. After a night’s rest, I’ve come to agree with those who believe Pirog isn’t really ready for Martinez. Don’t get me wrong – I’ll happily watch Martinez-Pirog, and Pirog could surprise, but I think he needs more experience. He might want to start at the bottom of the above list, and meet Martinez in the middle. Martinez-Pirog would be much bigger in that case anyway. Nevertheless, I won’t be surprised if that fight is made next.
After last night, I feel that Williams really should go back to light middle. And after all that’s transpired, I’m not sure he’s not really a welterweight as he and his people have maintained all along. A freakishly tall welterweight to be sure, but maybe that’s what he really is. At any rate, I think the timing for a Margarito rematch is perfect (after they each recover). They’ve both just suffered tough losses, they have unfinished business, and it would be an excellent crossroads fight. I know it’s unlikely because, as stated in the post, Top Rank would “hate to dent” the Cotto rematch. I do think that Williams needs to temporarily lower his sights, so if Margarito is undoable, Bundrage for the IBF 154 title might be a good way to go.
I was actually thinking about Bundrage-Williams, too. It serves as, basically, a bounce-back fight, and could net him a belt.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 22, 2010 5:48 AM EST up reply actions
Geraldmcgrew--
A difference between Williams and Margarito is that Williams got caught with a shot—
But Margarito suffered a big-time sustained beating, and has done some version thereof in three of his last four or five.
If Margarito were smart, he’d take the Packy-money and sit on the beach, IMO. But smart has not been his forte.
Anyway, good post, and I agree about Williams/weight.
by Don From Prov on Nov 22, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
We'll also need to see what/if Kirkland brings back to the table
he could turn out to be a compelling opponent for a number of fighters we’re discussing.
by geraldmcgrew on Nov 22, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Pavlik needs to step up.
Whether or not Kelly deserves a fight of this magnitude is not the question. The time is right for these two to meet. Kelly needs a big win…hell he needs ANY kind of win to repair his shattered career. For Paul, a win over Kelly, albeit a Kelly who’s in a funk, will give Paul the psycholgical boost he needs to bounce back. I still think if Kelly and Paul mix it up it’d be a FOY candidate for sure. Both guys need this fight NOW.
by SmittytheCutman on Nov 22, 2010 6:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions

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