"Iceman" John Scully discusses Vitali Klitschko-Shannon Briggs and fighters not being pulled out of beatings
by Scott Christ on Nov 4, 2010 10:34 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Former light heavyweight title challenger and current trainer "Iceman" John Scully has a very interesting article up at 8countnews.com that I thought would be a great share this evening. John discusses the recent Vitali Klitschko-Shannon Briggs fight, and the outcry that the fight should have been stopped. Here's just a piece, but make sure to go read the full article, because it's very much worth it.
I believe there comes a moment in a great many fights that two things can happen. One is that a fighter will be matched extremely tough and it will occur to him at some point that he isn't going to win. He's just not strong enough, fast enough or good enough to actually defeat this particular opponent. It happens.
The other moment is the one where the fighter realizes he isn't going to win the fight but he decides he wants to finish it at all costs to gain a moral victory of sorts, if not over his opponent than a victory over himself. He doesn't want to give any opponent the satisfaction of "stopping" him. And he doesn't want to live with the anguish of knowing he submitted physically and mentally to that opponent. Fighters at their core generally have a different way of thinking and a different way of rationalizing things than people who don't fight would.
He also talks about Gerald McClellan and his own experiences in similar circumstances. I think it's pretty enlightening to read from a former fighter who is still in close contact with the sport on this subject. As much as I believe that I or any other observer certainly has the right to criticize a referee or a corner for not pulling out a fighter who has no hope of winning and is absorbing great punishment, I really felt something reading his take on the subject.
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this is why the ref and the corner in particular need to be willing to do what a fighter’s heart will not allow. fighters fight. beyond when they should often. particularly in boxing when there is only punching, and clinching (at least according the rules) is not prolonged.
there is only punch and/or get punched. especially to the head/brain. the referee and the corner are there to intercede when a fighter’s will takes him beyond the threshold of what his brain/heart may be able to bear long term.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 5, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions
That's Such an Eloquent Article
It’s why we love them, it’s why we pay them, and it’s exactly why they have to be rescued, but God bless him for it just the same.
If love would die along with death, this life wouldn't be so hard--Andrew Vachss
Fighters wouldn´t quit, but ref should have
As a fighter, that I have been, I wouldn´t have wanted my corner to throw in the towel, nor the ref to count me out. I always told my mates: “No way, I won´t quit! I´ll fight my very best and give it all.” From this standpoint I understand that Shannon didn´t give up and I´ve to take my hat off. My greatest respect for him as a fighter.
But when a fighter takes too much punishment, giving all his best , he often can´t think of the consequences those special punches can have at the end of the later rounds. He just survives the battle. As a spectator and fan I love to see those real fights more than a boring match. Of course. But as a ref who is in charge of the fight and is responsible of the health of the fighter who isn´t quite by himself or doesn´t know what is going on, he has to stopp that!
At leastI must say this: if I had been the ref I would have stopped it! And in top of that if I had been in Shannon´s corner I probably would have stopped it as well. (Luckily for the fans I wasn´t!)
On the other hand I got to say this: Unlike the other challangers of Vitali, Shannon came to fight and not just for a payday. As I´ve mentioned before: My greatest respect for Shannon! In a way You have won by not quitting!
Get away with offers of new wheelchairs, just give me the new Cleto-Reyes instead!
"We are not made to pocket trivial things in an effortless way, but to reach for higher destinations with blood, sweat and tears."
Shannon did gain a whole new respect from a lot of folks, I think. I know I admired his sheer toughness in a way I never had before.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I always thought Shannon was tough.
But I didn’t think he’d go 12 rounds with Vitali, unless he only went in there with the sole intent of surviving, and even then I had serious doubts.
Props to Mr Briggs for some serious heart.
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
If the corner will not stop a fight, then the only man who can get bewteen a fighter and impending tragedy
is the referee. Shannon needed to be saved from himself IMO.
Powerful stuff Mr Scully
I respect anyone who laces em up – and then there are the Icemans of the world – Warrior spirit if there ever was.
However, I have mixed feelings on the Briggs performance. His intestinal fortitude was there for all to see against Lennox and Foreman and he hung tough with Vitali no doubt, but seemed more in survival mode than win at all costs mode. Outclassed and non-responsive to his corner’s advice I was reminded of Tyson’s effort against Lennox.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
He did tear his bicep to be fair Goaty (which was evident in the fight pictures).Not sure whether he would have been that much more effective had he not though.
Fair enough mate
Although to me, he appeared to be in survivor mode.from the first bell – before the injury. Big respect for not taking the easy way out, but on the other hand Briggs never went hell for leather to secure victory – the way Danny Williams did against Mark Potter – An extreme example yes, but you get what I mean.
Briggs was outclassed and showed nothing to suggest he could win – it should have been stopped for his sake.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
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