Juan Manuel Lopez Tops Rafael Marquez in Vegas Brawl
by Scott Christ on Nov 7, 2010 12:03 AM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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Rafael Marquez showed he's still got a lot left in the tank, but the 35-year-old Mexican Hall of Famer-to-be retired from his fight with Juan Manuel Lopez after eight rounds due to either a shoulder or chest injury, keeping Lopez undefeated.
In front of a rabid crowd at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Lopez (30-0, 27 KO) and Marquez (39-6, 35 KO) engaged in the sort of balls to the wall, all-out warfare we all expected as soon as the fight was signed. It proved to be worth the extra wait after its original September date was canceled. Both men were hurt in the fight, and both held up and fought aggressively, and even often recklessly, just as you'd expect. If Marquez was expected to struggle with taking big shots at featherweight, he had no more trouble with Lopez's power than he did with Israel Vazquez's at 122. He showed he can hold up. What this fight took out of him remains to be seen.
For Lopez, this is the best win of his career. Both fighters were clearly going for a knockout, to prove they were the stronger, better man. With all the Mexico v. Puerto Rico history, that was to be expected, and Lopez stuck himself into that historic rivalry with great vigor tonight. He was clearly full of fire and there to fight hard.
Was this a Fight of the Year contender? You betcha. Lopez and Marquez simply rocked each other all night, and tore into one another with fierce abandon. Describing the action in a recap is tough, and I won't do that. Hopefully, you saw the fight. If not, catch a replay.
We continue tonight's round-by-round coverage here with the HBO Boxing After Dark main event between Zab Judah and Lucas Matthysse, coming shortly. But what a start to November today has been.
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He's a force....waiting to get dropped
Just when I thought Juanma was tightening his D, he reveals … or should I say exposes….it to counters once again.
I know how good he is but I see a fall (or his being stopped) not too far ahead.
Definitely not a perfect fighter, but — and I’m not just directing this at you, or really “directing” it at all — he seems to be criticized for the same reasons Saul Alvarez is praised.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 7, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hadn't really thought of that comparison.
If that is true of Alvarez…and it may be..youth and inexperience may be a factor now.
As for JML, he walks into some bigs shots (eg. Mtagwe, tonight) a little to often for comfort.
Vargas might be a better comp.
Yeah but...
Alvarez isn’t being shoved down my throat as the “Greatest Fighter in the history of ever” while trying to make me shell out $60 for Ethnic Group Fight Synonym XX. Also, Juanma kinda seems like an a-hole which was on display when he got frustrated with Tony Weeks. Alvarez seems like a nice enough dude. Essentially, Arum made me dislike Juanma. Good Job, jerkoff.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
There is definitely something to be said for great expectations
Juanma has been touted as the second coming, which from a promotional standpoint ifs fair enough. But we’re not the general public. We watch these guys and reach our own conclusion. That leaves the burden on the fighter, JML, to exceed or at least meet them.
Tough stuff.
The young boy has skills and power. Yet he’s emotional, somewhat entitled, and walks into the unexpected. If he does that against Gamboa, the young Cuban will finish what Mtagwe and Marquez nearly did themselves.
while trying to make me shell out $60 for Ethnic Group Fight Synonym XX.
Rec’d for this… very good :)
However, I disagree with your point re- the ref and Juanma’s whinging. I thought he was well within his rights to be pissed off, since every time Marquez dropped that head (Which he did CONTINUALLY) Weeks seemed to give Juanma a warning. He seemed to be looking for reasons to whinge at JML, rather than the other way around. Personally I would have been telling Marquez, “If you keep putting your head on his cup, then where exactly is he supposed to be hitting you?”
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
Alvarez isn’t being shoved down my throat as the "Greatest Fighter in the history of ever" while trying to make me shell out $60 for Ethnic Group Fight Synonym XX.
Alvarez is being greatly shoved down your throat (including by our site!) and he was on the undercard for Mosley-Mora and Mayweather-Mosley, the former card absolutely marketed no differently than Latin Fury shows, except it was worse and backed by HBO. This argument is flawed.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 7, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
And Lopez has headlined all of two PPVs, one of which was not supposed to be the main event (that was supposed to be Pavlik-Mora) and the other was a FOTY contender.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 7, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
This is definitely true. Even today, with Alvarez at age 20 and Lopez at age 27, Alvarez gets much more hype – both ethnically and in general – than Lopez does, and it really isn’t even close. Anyone who claims that Lopez is the one who’s getting shoved down people’s throats is simply biased and grasping for straws for a way to hide it.
I think Lopez is getting shoved down our throats
and I don’t think I’m grasping at straws. Every time I see this kid fight he gets in serious trouble, and every time he fights he goes up against pretty mediocre competition. Yet still we hear this bullshit about how great he is and how he’s the next great Puerto Rican champ. If I was Caballero I’d start some shit with him too.
Last night he fought a blown up and significantly faded Marquez, and Lopez was in bad shape a couple times.
And all that shit would be fine, by itself it would just make him a commercial creation thrown at the Latino community because promoters know hispanics pay for hispanic things and people. But it’s the way this fucking guy acts and talks, with that smug look on his face like he’s Roy Jones – “hey JML, you’ve done nothing, and you get hurt by little old dudes. Wipe that smile off your face and fight ONE man”.
But no, he won’t do that cuz then he’ll lose and the promoter will lose money and…. I increasingly wish boxing was run by a corporation like UFC.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
He has good wins over Marquez (who I think proved he can still go), Daniel Ponce de Leon, and Steven Luevano. He’s never in a bad fight. He has a built-in fanbase. People come out to see him fight. I understand the backlash, I suppose, but he’s about 20th on my list of fighters who are overhyped. We’re not talking about Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. here, whose best win is John Duddy.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
That's true
he’s not JCC Jr., but he’s not Saul Alvarez either. And the thing is guys who are at least as legit as him chase him around and start shit at press conferences to try to get fights with him. And he acts smug. The thing that I hate is the combination: 1. commercial creation (+) 2. smug “I’m awesome” attitude. See, JCC Jr. doesn’t seem to put forth that attitude, or at least I don’t see it. JML acts like Roy Jones or Tito Trinidad, but he won’t fight the guys in his division.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
The attitude thing I can understand. I don’t like Arthur Abraham for basically the same reasons. Plus Lopez is a dirty ass fighter, and not even one who’s like “What of it?” He’s a “Who me???” guy.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I’m a little confused. I’ve seen a few of JML’s fights and I’ve never thought of him 1) as an arrogant bastard and 2) as a dirty ass fighter. In fact, his attitude yesterday seemed a bit odd to me. I dunno… maybe it’s the fact that he doesn’t speak English and everything he says gets mediated through a translator, but he’s usually very respectful of opponents (in Spanish at least) and he always praises them. I think in this case, there was a bit of bad blood before the fight… a few things happened in the lead up to the fight that I think contributed to Juanma’s attitude yesterday.
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Fire Steve Addazio.
I think he does have a smugness, a real cockiness. As for dirty, he was pretty dirty throughout that entire fight yesterday. I don’t dislike Lopez (clearly) but I can see if the way he carries himself is a turn-off for some folks.
Also, the Marquez brothers do tend to bring out the temper in their opponents. Always have.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Apart from yesterday (which I think we can all agree on), what other moments have you seen that can characterize him as “dirty”? I mean, in that sense I can think of more instances that Cotto has been “dirty” than JML and I don’t think Cotto is a dirty fighter (though he did like the blow below the belt shot a lot in the past).
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Fire Steve Addazio.
It’s funny… it seems you got two different conversations going on at the same time and on one you’re defending Lopez and in the other you have to point out his shortcomings haha!
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Fire Steve Addazio.
Not pointing out shortcomings, really. Just can see how his personality would grate on someone, because that’s a picky thing and depends on the person. I don’t like Arthur Abraham. Lots of people do. I like Joel Casamayor. Lots of people don’t.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I would say Cotto is a dirty fighter. Lopez isn’t consistently nasty or anything, but nobody really is anymore. I’m probably overstating it by calling him dirty, and Cotto too. Really I think we have more, uh, “emotional” fighters than dirty fighters now.
Maybe Bernard Hopkins. Then everyone’s like, “Oh Bernard! You’re so old and it’s so funny that you’re dirty!”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Yeah, it might be a question of how we define “dirty”… I think “dirty” and I think Bernard Hopkins or people who continuously use tactics that are borderline legal. And in terms of JML yesterday I think that at least half of that was Marquez crouching and coming in like that. Like in the Johnson/Green fight…
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Fire Steve Addazio.
***
mediocre bullshit for the weight. Marquez didn’t belong in that ring size wise, yet we’re talking about this fight as a legit contender for fight of the month/week.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I'm struggling here
the “bullshit” was supposed to be “competition”. yea
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Marquez didn’t belong in that ring size wise
I’d argue he showed he can deal with a good, strong featherweight, against the odds of his age and the fact that he’s a natural bantamweight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Though I suppose a detractor might argue that’s less good for Marquez and more bad for Lopez, and there is a point there. I think Lopez is good, some of y’all don’t.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
what happens if Marquez fights Gamboa or Caballero? – He gets wrecked really badly.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Maybe. Gamboa’s my Lopez, to so speak.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
you don’t believe in Gamboa?
I can see that. But here’s the thing – I’ve never really seen Gamboa in trouble and I don’t hear or notice him ducking fighters left and right. I have seen Gamboa get very lazy and “check out” on fights he’s going to win.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Gamboa’s resume is worse than Lopez’s, I think his power is really overstated by all his media boyfriends, and I don’t see him fighting Caballero, either. Caballero has called him out, too. Though they did mean to have him fight Elio Rojas, at least.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Lets just all agree to withhold judgement
Until Lopez/Gamboa fights Caballero or they fight each other. It was evident last night that if Marquez had any type of power at that weight class that Lopez would have been on the mat several times. Maybe its just hard for me to get fully behind someone who has a “Punch-Out” style glaring weakness.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Alvarez
It really doesn’t seem that alvarez is being shoved down my throat, and maybe its because he is still young. Yeah he gets in trouble sometimes but it seems like its a probem with being young and not a characteristic. I see shades of Amir Khan when I look at Lopez.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Amir Khan and Juan Manuel Lopez have literally nothing whatsoever in common other than they are both professional boxers.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Both have questionable whiskers…..
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Oh! Well then, that seals it. I mean Khan has been flat knocked out and now protects himself greatly from being punched at all, while Lopez stands and trades a lot and because of that sometimes gets hurt or knocked down. They’re exactly the same! Let’s throw Wladimir Klitschko in here, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
They are both highly touted prospects who have a glaring weakness, this isn’t rocket science. I’m almost wondering out loud about this because if Lopez fights someone like Caballero he’s going to get KTFO if he keeps this same style.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Because Caballero is such an amazing and flawless fighter who decimates all those who dare oppose him? He did beat Steve Molitor that one time. And, uh. Hm. Where was the outrage when he accepted a challenge from Lorenzo Parra, a natural flyweight?
You’re giving Caballero/Gamboa/etc. great credit while ignoring anything that Lopez has accomplished. His record is every bit as strong as either of theirs, and if you’re looking for someone to blame for Lopez-Caballero not happening, start with Top Rank, not Lopez, and consider that both promoters have whined about the other pricing themselves out of negotiations. Why does Caballero get such a benefit of the doubt about everything?
What’s Lopez’s glaring weakness? That he gets hit? We as a boxing community celebrate the likes of Arturo Gatti, Micky Ward, Israel Vazquez, Erik Morales, etc., but then dump on Lopez for not being perfect. He’s in at least an entertaining fight every time out. If you don’t like his personality or are just “a hater,” then fine, but at least just admit that instead of searching for validation and making terrible comparisons to Amir Khan because they both get hurt when they take punches. Lopez gets punched a lot. Khan does not. Lopez is a lot closer to Gatti than he is to Khan.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I wouldn’t say I’m giving either Gamboa or Caballero a bunch of credit mostly because I don’t think that highly of Lopez, I just think either of them could match up really well against Lopez, just like Maidana matching up well against Khan. I love Ward and Gatti but I’m not confusing them with world class fighters like Mayweather or Pacquiao.
If Arum markets Lopez as a fun fighter, and Lopez carries himself as a fun fighter, then I would be cool with that. However, he carries himself as a top 10 p4p and is marketed as such, when he clearly is not and it clearly bothers me.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Well then choose to see him as a fun fighter who gets in brawls and might get knocked out or knock somebody out. Arturo Gatti was hyped as a legitimate opponent for Floyd Mayweather and Oscar de la Hoya, too. It wasn’t just “he sure is fun when he bleeds all over, but we all know he kinda sucks.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
What’s Lopez’s glaring weakness?
that he gets hit and more importantly has a shitty chin.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
His chin isn't actually that shitty
But whatever.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
If he had a shitty chin, he'd have been knocked out by now
He’s faced some decent punchers and he gets hit a lot. He’s been knocked down once and buzzed two or three times, once of which came when he was completely exhausted. HBO latched onto this ‘bad chin’ nonsense, and now that’s what everyone believes. His chin is better than half the fighters they showcase on HBO, and I’d venture to say it’s about the same as his countryman Miguel Cotto, only Lopez gets hit a lot more than Cotto.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
We as a boxing community celebrate the likes of Arturo Gatti, Micky Ward, Israel Vazquez, Erik Morales, etc., but then dump on Lopez for not being perfect.
One of these is not like the others. All those guys had wars against similar folks, Lopez is 27 years old and this last fight was against a guy who spent most of his career in a lower weight class.
And you know what – I never saw Gatti, Ward, Vasquez, Morales or etc acting so godddamm smug in front of the camera. And all that – “who, me, I didn’t just hold and hit, how could you possibly think I would ever do such a thing?!” – is a whole separate bunch of phoniness.
Holden Caufield approves this message.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Alvarez is 20
fucking JML is 27, who the fuck has JML fought that makes that shit make sense? Alvarez’s balls dropped 3 years ago for chrissake. If JML’s gonna make a move, he’s already about 2 years late.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Rematch.
If I wake up tomorrow and see that the world has ended, then that means God has finally granted my prayers.
GO Armageddon!!!
Nah
Lopez has more important fights to take, and I think Marquez loses to him 9 times out of 10 at this point.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
please, huh?
You know Barrera can’t make featherweight anymore. Let’s get serious. This is serious business.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
well Arce it is then. MEXICO v. PUERTO RICO – BATTLE FOR THE AGES. 49.95.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Sadly, I can legitimately see that happening.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
or would that be a “Who RU Picking” fight? I hope it’s:
MEXICO v. PUERTO RICO – “Who RU Picking” – so then I can shit in my pants and throw it at the tv.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Sadly (again) that’s only a Golden Boy thing. But maybe we could start our own campaign. Hopefully GBP wouldn’t sue over usage of their marketing genius.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I do think Juanma is a little bit too in love with his own power and may be overrating it a little bit. He’s definitely got boxing skills, but a lot of the times he chooses not to use them and tries to simply go for the KO… That can be a problem for him because 1) it seems like he gets rocked rather easily (he’s able to weather out the storm in some cases, but there’s always going to be that one person which is going to hit him the right way) 2) he seems to get flustered if he doesn’t knock out his opponent (which is now beginning to happen more or at least they’re making him go longer rounds).
As for yesterday, I kinda think he was justified in getting pissed at Tony Weeks. Yes, there were some rabbit punches, but for the most part (not all of them) were Marquez’s fault. Marquez is shorter and would crouch and move forward… that’s a recipe for getting hit in the back of the head. Just like Allan Green was shifting in a weird way and Johnson kept hitting him in the back.
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Fire Steve Addazio.
three other observations from last night's festivities
1. Who ever would have thought that one of the boxing world’s most beloved athletes in Johnson and one of its most despised athletes in Green would be such close friends?
2. I like Antonio Tarver’s work overall, though I think he (like all of us) has good nights and bad nights, but I thought last night was an especially good night for him. His commentary on Johnson’s KO was passionate, articulate, and right on the money.
3. I wouldn’t say that Rafael Marquez looks like Don Flamenco, but he looks more like Don Flamenco than any other real-life pro boxer looks like Don Flamenco. I think it’s the way his mouth moves.
Also, the love-fest between Lopez and Marquez after the fight was kind of nice to see, especially since it was coming from two guys who (unlike Johnson and Green) didn’t really know each other before. Obviously you see this kind of thing in lots of fights, but I thought it was unusually effusive, plus I thought it was pretty genuine.
well i’m a bit sad that mexico lost this battle, but since i hate the marquez bros it was pretty badass seing him getting put to pasture. now its katsidis turn
Texans 17-2 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Nov 7, 2010 10:38 PM EST reply actions
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