Bernard Hopkins' Performance Overshadowed by Draw Against Jean Pascal, Officials Investigating Cards
by Scott Christ on Dec 18, 2010 11:43 PM EST
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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UPDATE: As I was putting this together, Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated reported on his Twitter page that there is an investigation of the scorecards going on.
Controversy: There is white out on two spots on the official scorecard. Looking at original now.
What I'm seeing, someone whited out the eighth round in Canadian judge card. Bernard would have won the fight ... There is also white out on the first round on the Belgian's card. If that was corrected, Hopkins would have lost his card. But won on two.
From what it looks--repeat, looks--like the changes cost Hopkins. But we don't know the source of the whiteout yet. Officials investigating
Bernard Hopkins turns 46 in January. And for the first time in three fights, he didn't look his age tonight against light heavyweight champion Jean Pascal.
Hopkins (51-5-2, 32 KO) overcame two knockdowns in the first three rounds, the first of which was a bad call by the referee on a rabbit punch, to largely dominate his fight with Pascal (26-1-1, 16 KO). But the judges scorecards came back 114-112 for Hopkins, 113-113 and 114-114, resulting in a majority draw.
After the fight, Hopkins of course said he felt he'd won. Pascal said the same, but the younger man's conviction wasn't the same as Bernard's. Bad Left Hook scored it 115-111 for Hopkins, and while I don't think I'd call this a robbery, I will say that I personally definitely felt Bernard Hopkins won this fight. I gave him every round after the first three, which I had as a sweep for Pascal, with two 10-8 rounds involved. Had I scored the first 10-9 for Pascal instead, I'd have just had it 116-111 for Bernard, so that wasn't an important swing for me.
It was a classic Bernard Hopkins performance. In the third round, when Hopkins was legitimately knocked down on a good left hook, I thought Bernard's face was saying, "Well, I think I'm finally too old."
But it wasn't. Bernard came out in the fourth and took full control of the fight. In a few rounds, Pascal looked clearly defeated mentally, laying off the gas pedal entirely and just fighting so tentatively that it made you wonder if he was even trying to win anymore. Hopkins ate some leather along the way, and maybe a couple of those last nine rounds that I gave to Hopkins could have gone Pascal's way. I didn't see it that way, but I'm sure a couple of them could have gone Jean's way. But it was Bernard Hopkins' fight from the start of round four on through the end, including a 12th round mini-war where both guys threw, though nobody was landing a ton.
As for a rematch, I don't think you'd be wise to expect one. Bernard is not going to go back to Quebec to fight, and Pascal would be leaving money on the table to fight Hopkins anywhere else. This fight will only draw in Quebec. Hopkins is not a gate-mover, never really has been, certainly isn't now.
The thing to really dwell on and remember from tonight is that Bernard Hopkins showed he can still do it. Against Enrique Ornelas he was rusty and fought his age. Against Roy Jones Jr. he just didn't look good in any way, and looked old. But he got up for Pascal. Every time he does this is one less time he can do it, so in that regard I'm disappointed that he didn't get the win, which would have made him the oldest fighter to ever win a major recognized world title, topping George Foreman. I feel he deserved it. But it was not, pardon the pun, in the cards tonight.
On the Undercard
- Paul Malignaggi TKO-6 Michael Lozada: In Malignaggi's official welterweight debut (actually both weighed in a bit over 148), the Brooklyn native sliced up the veteran Lozada to score his first stoppage win since 2003. Malignaggi (28-4, 6 KO) was also making his debut as a Golden Boy fighter, and I'm sure they're hoping to get the remaining miles of his career from him, whether that means using him as a draw in the New York area or feeding him to young fighters, although they really don't have anyone in their stable at 147 worth doing that with at the moment. Malignaggi's 30, has taken lots of punishment, and has unreliable hands, so don't expect a lot. But Paulie will fight until he can't anymore. I'm sure of that.
- Daniel Jacobs TKO-5 Jesse Orta: Jacobs (21-1, 18 KO) scores the pure rebound win over Orta (7-14-2, 4 KO). I still do like Jacobs as a middleweight prospect, but then I never thought he was going to be a worldbeater.
- Peter Quillin KO-1 Martin Desjardins: Quillin (22-0, 16 KO) is a prospect who has faded from the spotlight quite a bit with injuries and other inactivity. This was a nothing win over a can, but it's good to see him back. Hopefully 2011 is a better year.
- Tyson Fury UD-8 Zack Page: Good win for Fury (13-0, 9 KO), who took shutout scores over veteran Page (21-33-2, 7 KO), who doesn't look like much on paper and really isn't very good or anything like that, but still might be Fury's best win. Page also just fought two weeks ago against Manuel Charr in Germany.
- Kevin Bizier TKO-3 Ronnie Warrior Jr.: Bizier improves to 13-0 (9 KO).
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Page-Charr was a robbery too
Page has very quickly veered well into Emmanuel Augustus territory. His true talent level, he’s probably a fringe contender, but he constantly takes fights on a few days’ notice and has ended up on the wrong side of a lot of decisions.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Unrelated but
Morales/Lorenzo card is streaming on wbc.tv
http://wbcboxing.tv/index_On.html
Still a few fights to go unitl El Terrible.
Yes, truly unique
Glad I’m around in his era. I’m 44 – the man has inspired me for years.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
That fight was nearly as enjoyable
as a night with my BLH avatar Goaty . Except for the decision. Hopkins is 18 frigging months older than me , its bloody mind boggling . He reps our generation very well against the whippersnappers . Another modern fighter given a lesson visa vis the sweet science by the best vet you will ever see . Cheers Mate .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Haha!!
Yep , hands out a boxing lesson and gets a draw. Enough to perpetuate my love/hate relationship with the fight game.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Hmmm. Anything is possible.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
It’s a white, paint like substance that you use to make writing corrections. It comes in the form of a pen or a bottle with a little paint brush. It is fast drying and allows the user to write over the surface once dried. But, it’s very easy to see where it has been used on an original – harder to notice on a copy.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
I presume
It means something like using Tipp-ex or similar product to cover up parts of the scorecard.
That’s kind of his job in this situation, I believe.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
More power to him. It’s always nice to have a vocal advocate.
by belleberyboy on Dec 19, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll be surprised if it achieves a whole lot, though..
by belleberyboy on Dec 19, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
src=“http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0PDoYDTkg1ND0wAauSjzbkF/SIG=12eem6i97/EXP=1292821587/**http%3a//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Whiteout.JPG”/>
Here ya go
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Dec 19, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
thats funny, the same exact pic I had. THANKS
by Full Throttle on Dec 19, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
I know. I was just helping you out cause I saw your comment on the bottom
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Dec 19, 2010 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't matter, a draw is a draw.
Even though my opinion sways towards Bernard. Still a great fight overall. Hopefully Bernard gets a rematch in a neutral site or gets the decision overturned (doubtful).
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Hitlist: Manny Pacquiao, Sergio Martinez
by Ryan Tical on Dec 19, 2010 12:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I’ve never really liked Bernard Hopkins, but I was in awe when I saw him fight Pavlik and today was impressive as well. Like I’ve said before, I can see the draw, but the important thing here is that Pascal is the champion and is 28 years old and he got outworked and outboxed for most of the fight… that says something right there.
Fire Steve Addazio
I will not buy any PPV promoted by Bob Arum.
Apprentice has the beat
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
by Kid Blast on Dec 19, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You expessed my feelings here too, well said
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
from Mannix's Twitter
Richard Schaefer is livid. Not about the white out controversy but the judging. Screaming that this what’s wrong with boxing
Even when they have some kind of decent point, promoters screaming “this is what’s wrong with boxing” never fails to make me laugh.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
yeah I laughed at that
that presser sounds mighty entertaining, with Hopkins demanding some respect and Schaefer being Boxing’s white knight
Oh yeah, agreed. Not sure any promoter could say that with a straight face. Maybe DiBella if you made me pick one.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 19, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Pascal fought a new kind of dumb for him. He fought Dawson Dumb.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 19, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
He makes so many mistakes. I think on the “right night” he’s as good as anyone at 175. But Bernard was, as I expect he would be, too cagey for him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 19, 2010 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, whiteout is a red flag, particularly in the 8th round, when the fight was firmly headed downhill for Pascal. Look, I’m not a fan of people winning titles in a courtroom, but corrected scores are a no-no. Europe up to it’s old tricks again.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
The Mounties
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I guess so, but it also probably won’t go anywhere. We live in a world where Tony Margarito just fought for a championship two years after bricking up his gloves. The rug is awfully big and it’s real dirty under there.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Well, I’m hitting the sack after a tad of brandy and some slivers of wild boar. . Hopefully, when I wake up tomorrow, they will have reversed the decision in favor of Hopkins.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Controversy may be over
according to Mannix…
Schaefer says the scores were double checked and he does not think there’s corruption
Well, if he’s satisfied I guess that’s it. Still sucks tho’.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
yeah it's still fishy to me
I haven’t followed boxing long but I’ve never heard of whiteout being used in scores.
That’s not surprising. There’s no heat dragging it out in the courts. If there’s any money left, it’s in the rematch, corrupt cards be damned.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Immediate rematch - 3 months time
Lets settle it.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Schaefer is already saying the WBC will order a rematch
haha. I appreciate a good, if brief, shitstorm. Sounds like the presser was fun.
So much of this is theater. I absolutely believe that there was whiteout on the card. But, so what? Everyone who watched knows who won the fight, and there is now heat for a rematch. These things go where the money flows. It’s not the boy scouts.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
whiteout can easily be scraped off to reveal what is underneath, the question is when was the whiteout applied. Also are judges usually handed whiteout in case they make a mistake??? is this common practice
Good question—why was there whiteout anywhere near the judges? As in, why isn’t it’s mere presence at a judges’s table an infraction?
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
They can't add scores right apparently.
I mean com’on—it’s Canada, eh!
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Hitlist: Manny Pacquiao, Sergio Martinez
by Ryan Tical on Dec 19, 2010 12:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the Great White North, damn skippy.
Great White-White Out!
"Okay, I stay clever like Mayweather, will lay leather 'til your face sever, one of the greatest ever." -- Big Daddy Kane
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Hitlist: Manny Pacquiao, Sergio Martinez
by Ryan Tical on Dec 19, 2010 12:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hear if you put white out on gauze and wet it, it gets really hard. The problem is that it also has the same ingredients as hand creme.
:)
I love a short left hook to the liver
by Don From Prov on Dec 20, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Recourse and or headline options include:
Brother Nazim gets to inspect scorecards.
Bernard loses to Slick Boxer in White Out
Schaefer demand polygraph for judges.
Swears to clean up boxing.
Hanging with Chad:
Dawson discusses outcome long after fight!
Matwaethers complain loudly about decision.
Floyd arraigned again on noise violation.
by pakinpower on Dec 19, 2010 1:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Bernard continues fighting and Shane looks good next years
I think Golden Boy should create a new masters division.
Call it the Sunshine Boys.
Whiteout was apparently only on the media copies, not the actual scorecards:
http://www.instrength.com
Paulie Malignaggi stopped somebody?!
and I miss it to do my best friend an agonizing favor, some weeks its just not your week….
Did he look good at 147 at all?
I think it was on cuts and the guy he stopped was a journeyman who was fighting at 130 only two years ago.
While I appreciate the response...
I had already realized his first fight at 147 wasn’t going to be against a world beater considering his last fight was getting out-classed and basically smacked around by Khan. But for Paulie to get any sort of stoppage especially at a higher weight is suprising. I’ve always had a soft spot for hard-luck hand guys, having had a few problems with my hand myself (as I write this in a cast for my right hand).
So to be blunt, your reponse didn’t really answer my question.
He probably looked the best he has in a while… Nothing overly spectacular, but a good debut at welter (or whatever the catchweight was). The welterweight division is hardly a stacked place right now, so I can see Paulie easily getting fights. He’ll be fed to Ortiz or Alvarez soon though.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
Thanks!
hopefully he hasn’t lost all his quickness. The Magic Man always entertains me with his slick fighting style and his often inadvertant humor in his press conferences. The guy doesn’t even sound half bad behind a mic on commentary. As far as top competition at 147, I can see the “fed” part if he fights Alvarez, but am I crazy to think he’s got a chance against Ortiz?
Palie is hard to dislike.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Yes
Paulie will get killed by Ortiz. He offers no punching power to create a deterent. Plus, he has already taken a great deal of punishment already in his career. Ortiz is not the guy some hoped he might be…but he is a big strong kid who can bang. Paulie’s debut at welterweight was a sham show to re- establish some value to his name. The guy he fought had wins over a bunch of losers aka men with padded records themselves. And most of them were at featherweight. Paulie will fight again…and again. Until if he had half a brain left, he will retire. There is a future at the mike for a man who can speak intelligibly. Too many more beatings and Paulie may no longer be that man.
Wow.
Since he’s taken so long off and I missed the fight, I guess I didn’t realize Malignaggi had fallen so far. I know he got beat up pretty good in both the Hatton and Khan fights. But he’s really that far removed from the guy who beat Lovemore N’dou (who just went the distance with Alvarez) twice and split with Juan Diaz? If he’s really to the point where he’s one or two beatings away from serious issues that’s a shame. I was hoping maybe taking a year or two off to really get his hands right a la Mickey Ward might really start a nice little comeback for Paulie.
he's a entertaining fighter
but setting him …and us…up by giving him a tomato can to demonstrate his new found power is, IMO, harmful in the long run. In the short run, matching him right with light hitting fighters might be profitable…but the line should be drawn carefully. Paulie has taken a lot of punishment already.
When I was at the fight last weekend, I noticed that they collected the scores in between every round. At least that is what I thought was going on. Why isn’t that standard?
You know, that’s a good point too—I’ve seen that happening, just part of what goes on, didn’t think about that last nite—but it now appears, despite Mannix’s statement that he’s looking at originals, that the white out was on the xerox copies whose existence is probably SOP but which is news to me.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
That's what I thought they were supposed to do. I'll check with my ref friends on that.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
This was my Sunday morning blog topic.
Daniel van de Wiele is a joke, whether as referee or as a judge.
<a href="http://" target="new">Hopkins fought a good fight and deserved to win.
My original card had Hopkins winning 115-110. I gave Pascal the knockdown rounds and R8. It is possible that I should have given round two to Pascal, also possible that I should have scored R3 10-9 instead of 10-8. Also possible I should have given round eight to Hopkins. I’d be wiliing to spot Pascal another point or two, adding an even round to the rest of the changes. So 115-111 or 115-112 is what i finish up with even trying to be critical of my card.
No way at all?
Pascal definitely won round one 10-8. He arguably won round three 10-8 as well but, as Al Bernstein said, you can make a strong case for a 10-9 round instead. If one were to believe that Hopkins dominated the round and was then dropped near the end of the round, and then finished well, then Pascal did enough to steal the round with the knockdown but didn’t follow it up strongly enough for the 10-8.
There were ten more rounds in the fight. Tell me the other two rounds you thought Pascal won so clearly that I can’t say Bernard Hopkins won them.
I can see giving Pascal round two or calling it even, I gave it to Hopkins. But I can also see giving round eight (which I gave to Pascal) to Hopkins or calling it even. That leaves eight rounds which were pretty clearly all Hopkins. Hopkins only needs round two or round eight to take nine rounds and one can make an argument for his taking all ten. What did Pascal do to /absolutely/ win anything other than the two knockdown rounds?
Your turn.
I can argue that If the ref had hindsight aka as replay
Bernard would not even have lost the first. Fact is…Pascal sucked. Why? Because he was exposed as a young athletic and flawed boxer. By a grand master.
I definitely thought BHop won the fight, but the scores weren’t a “robbery”. 1 point either way on only 1 card would have made the difference. I mean they didn’t have scores like 118-110 Pascal, which WOULD have been a robbery. BHop didn’t help himself by getting knocked down twice.
He deserves a rematch. Maybe Pascal won’t be as reluctant to trade next time, and we’ll have a very compelling fight.
"In war, as in prostitution, the amateur is often better than the professional". Napoleon.
What is the BIG DEAL!!!!!
This was not a highway robbery, on any of the score cards white out or not. I had the fight 5 rounds for Pascal (1-3 for Pascal w/ 2pt rounds in 1 & 3), 1 even round and I had 6 rounds for Hopkins and there were at least 3 close toss up rounds where Hopkins pressed and threw more punches but Pascal landed harder cleaner punches. This was one of the best fights that I have seen from Hopkins and I love the fact that 16k were there live and gave the fight a great atmosphere for a boxing match. If anyone thinks the rematch should be in the US where you would be lucky to get 2k-5k at the small room in AC your crazy!!!
What should be in question is the 10 point must system? Just doing the math if Pascal wins rounds 1-3 and you give him 2pt rounds in the 1st and 3rd which I think should have been the case (Hopkins was winning round 3, but not by a large margin but the knock down makes it a 10-8 round for Pascal) then he already has a 5pt lead and you only need 7 pt lead (assuming no other knock downs or point deductions) to win. Now if you look at the total fight I think Hopkins won, if you look at if from a 10 pt must system then I have Pascal winning.
PS- This was the same fight that Pascal fought against Froch and Dawson, started off strong and faded in the later rounds. And also this was the same scoring system that gave a draw last week to Peterson after being down twice early in the fight (which was a fare decision). Lastly the 1st knock down was legit and was the same punch that Green got KO’d on and everyone thought it was fine then so Hopkins needs to stop crying, he threw tons of kidney shots and hit well after the bell in at least 3 rounds.
It was a good fight and a fair decision boxing fans/fighters need to stop making a big deal out of good close competitive fights that don’t go there way. It is so hard to score close competitive rounds on a high level in boxing. Its the most subjective thing in all of sports.
This fight was competitive for about three rounds, then Bernard moved Pascal around like a puppet for the rest of the fight. It the fifth, sixth and seventh rounds were like watching someone trapped in a mind control experiment.
It’s fine though. This was a majority draw in Nard’s favor, after all. The other two cards would’ve been for Bernard too, if they excluded the first bogus knockdown. But you’re not allowed to do that when you are a judge. Knockdown is the ref’s call. It was bad decision, but at least the wrong guy didn’t win. It was not some Glenn Johnson style hometown robbery.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Spot on.
Not only was Bernard the perceived winner…..I mean after all, what possible bragging riights did the 28 year old ‘hometown champion’ earn….but the first KD, which may have been judged accurately, was a bogus back of the head shot that did exactly what back of the head shots do: knock men off balance. Bernard was not only not hurt but he was laughing.
It was apparent that he did not come for a decision. He fought like we have not seen him fight in I don’t know how long. I thought the minute he got up in Round One that his expression made clear that he was not going to repeat his antics in his fight with Jones….and that he was there to both redeem any doubters and to win.
The latter of which he did.
Well put
I thought Bernard won albeit by a slim margin. However, whats remarkable is the fact that A.) he did it at his age and B.) He did it in the champion’s backyard. Much respect to Hopkins
by SmittytheCutman on Dec 19, 2010 11:36 PM EST reply actions
Bernard
continues to surprise me.
Sooner or later, I’ll fully appreciate just how good a fighter I’ve watched over the years.
Let me say I was not impressed with Pascal. Yeah, good chin, but his bull rushes, lack of combos, and lack of cover up to Hopkins’ savage liver shots didn’t do much for me. In fact. I’d go so far as to say we may well have seen the best Pascal we will see. If he fights, Bute, he truly will be “executed.” Just not a very smart guy in there. Low Ring IQ.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Pascal is emblematic of the new breed
Lots of muscles and scientific training on his physique but very limited in the old school skills department Ted . He cant infight , his jab is poor and his stamina is suspect . Hopkins and Mayweather are probably the last really skilled American fighters there will be due to the decline in amateur boxing there although Ward looks like a really young fighter . Most of them fight like bad amateurs nowadays . They can only fight at long range . On the inside and at the inbetween outside and inside they dont have a clue . With most of the new breed " defence is a thing that you have around the perimeter of your house . Cheers Mate .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
by JC40 on Dec 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great post. May I use it elswhere?
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Feel free Ted
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
JC do you think this is symptomatic of the amateur system or do you think it comes from external pressure from overzealous promoters? Personally I think its a kind of Vic/Ortiz syndrome. Just be awkward and wail away and everything will be fine. However, there is another option. There really is a shift in ref tactics, where referees tend to break up fighters the instant they get inside and even attempt to hold. So the lack of inside fighting could be tied to that as well.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 20, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
All of the above Waldo
The refs have changed , there’s a lack of good coaches , fighters are put in the big money fights early because they are looked on as a quick earn not a work in progress . Shit a lot of young fans dont even understand infighting themselves . Note how many young fans whine about the way Ward or Hopkins fight . Especially the "Europeans ". I read an interview with Ray Mancini a few years ago and he said infighting is a lost art . He also commented on refs that refuse to allow it to happen . Cheers mate
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
+1
He also commented on refs that refuse to allow it to happen
Seen that a few time lately and I don’t like it.
by Don From Prov on Dec 21, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
De La Hoya v Hopkins
and Mayweather v Hatton were classic examples Don . Every time Hops closed the gap on Oscar and started to rough him up the ref was in there like it’s illegal to actually fight inside , ditto Floyd and Hatton . Not that it made any difference in either fight .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Ward_ really good young fighter
sorry
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
That sounds about right! But I also see your point about inside fighting. I think Lamont Peterson is the only other young-ish fighters who have a severe persistence/gameplan to the body. Bute is starting to develop a serious body game as well!
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 20, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
"wince before you look"--nice
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
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