Pacquiao Watch: Juan Manuel Marquez Appears to Be Out of the Running
by Scott Christ on Dec 2, 2010 10:31 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
Email
Print
Michael Marley reports tonight at BoxingScene.com that Bob Arum has rejected an offer from Richard Schaefer for Juan Manuel Marquez to be Manny Pacquiao's April 16 opponent, and quite angrily at that.
"This proposal I got on Marquez ... is Schaefer just selling Marquez down the river. ... It's just not realistic and I don't think Schaefer really wants Juan to fight Pacquiao again. Schaefer knows, like everyone else does, that Manny will kick the s**t out of Marquez. They want to avoid Manny and, that way, Schaefer can put his guy in with (Robert) Guerrero or someone else. Schaefer knows that if he has him fight Manny now, that will be the end for Marquez."
The report says that the proposal would guarantee Marquez more than the Mexican star made in September 2009 against Floyd Mayweather Jr., when he made about $4 million plus a cut of the PPV. And if that is indeed the offer Golden Boy sent, I don't think there's any getting around the fact that Golden Boy and Marquez shot too high or might not want the fight as much as they say they do. There's no way they could have thought that was a reasonable figure.
Arum also had some words about Oscar de la Hoya, who earlier made the accusation that Pacquiao makes everyone "leave it on the scale" by forcing catchweights, which I thought was pretty dumb coming from Oscar:
"Look, anybody who listens to what Oscar says now has to be deranged. It’s very sad with Oscar but unless you program him on what to say, it always comes out wrong."
Bob may lie one day and tell the truth the next, but it's pretty hard to argue with this one.
The race at this point looks to be almost over. Marquez seems to be out, which would leave Shane Mosley and Andre Berto, and Arum clearly favors Mosley. Maybe Berto can happen later in 2011, but as far as April 16 goes, it looks like Sugar Shane will get one more shot at greatness.
45 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Arum just doesn't like to negiotiate with golden boy
It’s like there can not be a counter offer.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 2, 2010 11:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Well,
I have no interest in anyone but Floyd. I know that sounds foolish, but a man can dream. But like I said before, Shane getting the fight would tear me apart. And Berto does not deserve it nor will he stand a chance.
I’m not happy about this either, but judging from your wish list…well, when you want the impossible, you’re bound to be disappointed.
“There is an easy way to get more of what you want: want less.” (Ashleigh Brilliant)
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
by Chaos100 on Dec 3, 2010 6:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
nah
I’m in Valparaiso, IN, now, so the drive would be even longer, and I hate driving. I’d fly, but I don’t want to pay for it. And I’ve already seen empty rooms before.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 3, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I think I'm going to go
Relatives in Ann Arbor, and it’s an excuse to go visit them.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Schaefer is going to lose Shane first and then Marquez
Failure to get your talent what it wants is the best way to lose it.
Shane Just gave a fun interview laying out his problems with Schaefer and Golden Boy and why he’s all but gone. He articulates the reasons….and all of them spell trouble for Oscar and his team.
The fact is GB can’t get their fighters the better fight’s.
Looks like Arum is squeezing Oscar by the balls.
Slowly.
Sugar will just be there for the paycheck. Like MAB in the 2nd Pacman fight, like Morales in the third, he’ll probably just stop trying.
I think it’s unfair to compare the third Morales fight, where Morales kept coming forward and getting knocked on his ass, to the second Barrera fight, where Barrera was clearly not giving 100% of what he could. Pacquiao-Barrera II I’d compare to Marquez-Diaz II, as Diaz obviously wasn’t terribly interested in giving the same effort he put in the first time against Marquez. In both fights, it was obvious that Barrera and Diaz needed a knockout to win, or needed to stop doing what they were doing (if you want to say they had a gameplan), but they didn’t do anything. Morales did give up against Pacquiao in the third fight, but he did so after he’d tried everything he could and decided it wasn’t going to work. Then he raised Pacquiao’s hand.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 3, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I expect Shane to try his best
but I just don’t see him effectively pulling the trigger against Pacquiao. I see it as cross between Mosley-Mayweather and Pac-Margarito: Shane having trouble letting his hands go against a much quicker Manny who fires away at a much slower (now) Mosley and eventually stops him by late TKO.
…yawn.
I don’t think there’s any getting around the fact that Golden Boy and Marquez shot too high or might not want the fight as much as they say they do
I think that Golden Boy might have shot too high, but I’m not sure there is any doubt that Marquez wants the fight just as much as he says he does.
Most fight fans would not spend a dime to watch Van Gogh paint 'Sunflowers', but they would fill Yankee Stadium to see him cut off his ear. (Bill Nack)
This is horsecrap
Every reason Arum gives against Marquez here is just as bad as what he’s refuting. It’s just a lot more difficult to make the argument against it in a sound bite.
Marquez’s people making a first offer of something better than what he got against Mayweather isn’t so far beyond the pale that it doesn’t dignify a counteroffer. That’s how most people negotiate, and that’s how I’m sure all boxing promoters negotiate against Bob Arum. You don’t lead with your best offer or anything even close to it, because you know the Bobfather’s counteroffer won’t even be half of your initial offer, and that you’ll wind up with something significantly less than what you’re looking for.
That said, Arum is right about one thing – Marquez doesn’t have any other good options. I mentioned this in the rec’d fanpost. Either he can get 1/3 of what he’d get against Pacquiao to face Robert Guerrero (because if Bob is cockblocking Marquez vs. Pacquiao, he sure won’t let Marquez fight Soto or any other lightweight who is a decent option), or he can still make less to face the Khan/Maidana winner or the Bradley/Alexander winner, and in either case he still probably has just as little of a chance of actually winning as he does against Pacquiao. So six months from now, Arum can wipe his brow and make some dumb quote like “Well now we got that Caballero Marquez kid out of our hair” when he gets his butt kicked by a much bigger guy who is a bad style matchup for him.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 3, 2010 8:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This may be giving Golden Boy a little too much credit, but they could be using Arum’s words against him. Arum keeps saying that Pacman is the biggest draw in boxing, so why not ask for more money than May-JMM? These two already have an interesting/controversial history, which will be easy to sell, so it should make more money than May-JMM if Arum is right about Pacman’s drawing power.
Also I’m not sure that Marquez has no options. It seems that the winner of the Khan v. Maidana fight would be a good option at maybe the Paulie Malginaggi memorial weight class of 138.5. I’m not sure about Shaw or King’s relationship with Arum, but JMM could probably take the winner or even loser of that fight.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Khan might be an option
But would probably beat Marquez so bad that his career wouldn’t be too viable afterwards. Of the three junior welterweights, I honestly think he matches up much better with Bradley, and if he can’t get Pacquiao and Bradley beats Alexander, that’s who I would target. HBO would buy it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
From my selfish boxing fan's point of view
if this shakes out to put Marquez in with either the Bradley/Alexander winner or Robert Guerrero, at least I get to see a fight I really want to see. I’m unlikely to drain my wallet for Manny vs. either Marquez or Mosely, but I’d happily watch one of the above fights . I know it’s not what’s best for Marquez’s bank account, but as someone who will never sniff the kind of money these guys make, I care more about getting a fight I find compelling. Anyway, couldn’t Marquez make big Latino money against Morales (not that I’d buy it) without effectively ending his career.
JMM was never going to have a chance at beating Pac at this point anyways.
Internet MMA radio Thursdays at 7PM/EST
www.joeshowradio.com
Of course not
But it had a much better chance of being a decent or even competitive fight than Mosley. And Arum is acting as if he thinks Marquez has a better shot of winning. The difference in fanbase between Mosley and Marquez isn’t great enough to fully justify the way he’s acting here, especially with a lot of conflicting data.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
But it had a much better chance of being a decent or even competitive fight than Mosley.
I don’t know if that’s true anymore. Marquez has looked good offensively but also extremely hittable in his last couple of fights, and Pacquiao hasn’t exactly slowed down or lost power since the last time they fought.
I still say Mosley above 147 has a better shot than Marquez at anything above 135. It’s only a puncher’s chance, really, but that often all you get when you are 40 years old.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
At least we know Marquez will throw punches
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I feel the same way
Marquez was lucky to survive Katsidis. And I’m not referring to the KD. He was getting hit regularly…and as in his past few fights, his face was beginning to swell.
The new and improved full welterweight Manny will bust him up and put him on his back with extreme prejudice….no matter how brave or how good Marquez may be.
If he wants to trade with Manny, it will be a very short fight.
I think Marquez and Mosley should fight it out at 147 for a shot at Pacquiao
There is criticism of both Mosley and Marquez as opponents. Marquez isn’t effective above 135; Mosley is too old. Meanwhile, Pac takes on Tim Bradley who has proven effective at 140 and 147 and has the added advantage of being African American (Pac has taken some heat for not fighting African American fighters in the past).
By then
an opponent will have long been selected
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
And I'm not sure there's enough time to work out a deal market it
If he’s to just face the winner
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don’t think Marquez has any interest in fighting over 135 unless it’s at 140 against Erik Morales, which is a huge fight in Mexico and with Mexican-Americans, or whatever weight against Pacquiao. And rightly so. Marquez wants to fight over 135 for money or Manny.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 3, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
BTW
This doesn’t seem completely off the table. From Lance Pugmire:
Pacquiao’s promoter, Top Rank, has gathered similar term sheets from two other possible April 16 opponents, world welterweight champions Andre Berto and Pomona’s Shane Mosley, and will present them to Pacquiao when attending his 32nd birthday party in the Philippines Dec. 17.
Other goodies: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/12/manny-pacquiao-juan-manuel-marquez-floyd-mayweather-jr.html
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
world welterweight champions Andre Berto and Pomona’s Shane Mosley
Sure, why not.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 3, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
you
can’t say that, based on their past fights, based on marquez’s performance against mayweather
if pacquiao and marquez never end up rematching, and pacquiao gets embarrassed by mayweather, only then will people realize marquez was cheated out of a third fight.
arum’s excuses are lame….did clottey have name-recognition? did margarito really have a chance? and now he’s saying marquez has no name-recognition and no chance to win, what a joke, as if any of pacquiao’s opponents recently have had a chance on paper.
by everynightshouldbefightnight on Dec 3, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions
right
I personally don’t even think Marquez has a good chance fighting Manny at 147 and being older now. But to say he’s not a recognizable fighter is bullshit — I mean, it just is. I do think Golden Boy overplayed their hand, and would argue that they — not Marquez — don’t really want the fight. I mean you can say, “Well, Arum could have countered,” but coming in aggressively like they did was obviously going to piss Arum off. If he countered, I’m guessing he’d low-ball the hell out of them, and neither side would speak about it again. They knew what the tactic was.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Most of what TR is saying is that they believe Shane has more name recognition.
That is very difficult to refute.
They also believe that Manny = Mexican audience.
And that Manny vs. Marquez = Mexican audience.
But that Manny vs Mosely = Mexican audience plus some additional urban.
That is their math. And it is their money being used to promote it.
They may very well be wrong but that’s the business calculus.
Throw in ulterior motives such as creating a lasting wedge between SSM and GB…and there you have your reasons.
SSM = no chance in hell to beat pacman
JMM = has a chance if the weight is correct
Take a wild guess who is going to get the fight?
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Simple answer. It's business.
The one that THEY think makes everyone the most money…and creates the best business opportunites going forward. Nothing more complicated than that.
Oh I understand the reasons. I think both sides here are at fault or wrong in some way, but that’s generally how it works out.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 4, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
