Bad Left Hook Fight Picks: Khan-Maidana, Ortiz-Peterson, Showtime Bantamweights
by Scott Christ on Dec 8, 2010 11:04 PM EST
in Boxing Fight Previews
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Since I'm slightly sick and also just really busy putting together my Christmas party for Friday (OK, my wife is doing most of that work, but I'm pretending to help and she's so preoccupied she doesn't notice I'm not doing much, so keep quiet), I'm not going to do the in-depth fight previews for this weekend's fights. Not that they don't deserve it, I'm just sort of feeling lazy this week. I promise I'll do one for that big Pascal-Hopkins fight next week. Scout's honor.
Junior Welterweights, 12 Rounds
Amir Khan v. Marcos Maidana
HBO, Saturday, 9:30pm EST
This fight has been talked up, and rightly so. It's a delicious style clash. Khan (23-1, 17 KO) has speed, pedigree, and Freddie Roach on his side. Maidana (29-1, 27 KO) is a nasty puncher who can do serious damage.
But let's focus on the two recent fights where Maidana didn't stop his opponents. Those came in a close loss (not a robbery) against Andriy Kotelnik, a fighter Khan dominated, and a super shopworn version of DeMarcus Corley in Maidana's last bout, which honest to God could easily be argued in Corley's favor on the scorecards.
What does that really say about Maidana? He out-brawled Victor Ortiz in 2009 which gained him a lot of fans. He was clearly matched with Ortiz as an opponent meant to make "Vicious" Victor look good. That didn't happen. When push came to shove, Ortiz cracked and Maidana did not, even though they'd both delivered brutality and punishment in spades. And he bashed up Victor Cayo earlier this year, but Cayo has never really beaten anyone, either.
The Kotelnik fight doesn't need to be "explained" -- Kotelnik is a very good fighter, as he showed in August against Devon Alexander, and he's a tough guy who can take shots, and he also had strong enough defense to not take too many really clean shots against Maidana. But the Corley fight is another story. Maidana had dates lined up with Timothy Bradley, but kept dropping out in some sort of weird story about back injuries, later insinuated to be nonsense made up by Maidana's non-Golden Boy representatives, but who knows what the real deal was there?
Maidana was soft and out of shape against Corley. Maybe it was ego, assuming that fighting a faded veteran who had recently been knocked stiff by Freddy Hernandez, and fighting him in Buenos Aires, would be easy. We've all seen plenty of guys who fight up and down to the competition they're facing. For Maidana's sake you have to hope that was the case.
If Khan can neutralize Maidana, he's going to cruise. Maybe the sort of fight where every right hand swung by Maidana has a bit of a gasp from the audience, but if he can't land big shots, he really has no chance. He cannot outbox Khan. He just can't. Khan is too fast, too skilled, and will have too good of a gameplan from Freddie Roach.
To me, though, the most interesting thing about this clash is that Khan's chin isn't even the issue. Yes, it's a bad chin. A very bad chin for a world-class fighter, in fact. But that doesn't really matter -- Maidana has the sort of game-changing power that ANYONE can have their lights turned out if he lands the right shot. It's not like we should expect Khan to crumble to jabs or potshots. It'll still have to be a good shot from Maidana, but a good shot from Maidana can do serious damage to anyone at 140.
One thing to really, really watch for is how slow Khan makes Maidana look if the fight goes on long enough for you to really gauge the speed difference. It's going to be almost silly.
I won't be even slightly surprised by anything that happens in this fight. If Maidana drills Khan in the first round, I won't be surprised. If Khan dominates for 12, I won't be surprised. If Khan dominates for 11 3/4 and is sent to Dreamland in that final 1/4, I won't be surprised. If Khan stops Maidana by slicing him up with his speed and combinations, I won't be surprised. I'm making a pick, but whatever: Khan UD-12
Junior Welterweights, 12 Rounds
Lamont Peterson v. Victor Ortiz
HBO, Saturday, 9:30pm EST
This is a good, not great fight between a couple of would-be 140-pound contenders. A win will net the victor some sort of title shot, probably. Peterson's already had one against Tim Bradley, and while he was competitive throughout he barely won any rounds at all. Ortiz, on the other hand, is finally taking a legitimate threat of an opponent for the first time since he lost to Maidana. Since then, he's fought three shot guys (Antonio Diaz, Nate Campbell, Vivian Harris) and a bum.
Peterson has the speed and skills to test Ortiz, who has boxed a bit more "within himself" since Maidana broke his will. Against Campbell and Hector Alatorre, Ortiz laid off the gas pedal substantially and never really went for the knockout, though he did finally turn it up and finish off Alatorre in the final round of their fight.
Ortiz has talent, but a win over Peterson would definitely be the best of his career to date. Peterson is in his prime at age 26, has height (5'9") equal to Ortiz and reach (74" to 70") in his favor, and can box. This is in some ways a make-or-break contest for both men. A loss for Ortiz really, really hurts his stock, and hiding him against washed-up fighters or never-weres won't be acceptable anymore. A loss for Peterson drops him to fringe contender status.
One thing that kind of picks at me as an observer of both Peterson brothers is that they've always seemed kind of ... I don't know, not really lackadaisical, but perhaps too "laid-back." Ortiz, with his doofy surfer dude persona, also bugs me, but I've never felt like he was less than fully prepared for his fights. His loss to Maidana is something I'm willing to put in the past until it proves to be a concern again. Given that Peterson isn't a puncher, don't expect Ortiz to crack on Saturday. For talent, I think these guys are pretty equal, really. They have different strengths and weaknesses, but they're about on the same level. I do think Ortiz, whose earning potential is probably higher, will feel more pressure to win. He was all but named Oscar de la Hoya's successor before he was ready, and he likely won't ever be that guy. If he can handle the pressure, this is the fight where he'll prove it. If he can't, Peterson just might not be quite good enough to beat him anyway. Ortiz UD-12
Bantamweights, 12 Rounds
Yonnhy Perez v. Joseph Agbeko II
SHO, Saturday, 9pm EST
This is a rematch of a 2009 Fight of the Year contender, which was also the last time Agbeko (27-2, 22 KO) fought. Agbeko was coming off of a big win over Vic Darchinyan early in the year, while Perez was at the time a relative unknown. The incredible punch output from both men made for a wonderful fight, but one I also felt that, as far as a scorecard goes, Perez won handily. He was, in a way, just a superior version of Agbeko. That's about what I expect on Saturday, too. With Agbeko having been off for about 14 months and Perez having since fought a heck of a good battle with Abner Mares in May, I just think Perez is going to be too sharp, too good for "King Kong." But I also admit that in the back of my mind, I keep thinking that the first Agbeko fight was as good as Perez can do. He's a very effective swarmer, but he's far from unbeatable. Perez UD-12
Bantamweights, 12 Rounds
Vic Darchinyan v. Abner Mares
SHO, Saturday, 9pm EST
I think this one depends almost entirely on which Darchinyan shows up. If it's the Vic Darchinyan who boxes his way into those openings for his brutal, cartoonish power shots, I think he does well and wins this fight. If it's the Darchinyan who believes he's God's most fearsome creature, I think Mares could stay patient and pick him apart, racking up rounds en route to a decision win. Mares is a good boxer and he can war a bit, but he does not want to get into a fight with Darchinyan. He's going to want to box him. I don't think he can survive a slugfest, but I do think he can edge out a win even if the smart Darchinyan shows up. But my gut is telling me that Mares gets dragged into the kind of fight that's just no good for him. My gut could have s**t for brains. Darchinyan TKO-8
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If I were gameplanning for Maidana, I’d tell him to spend the first few rounds absolutely mauling Khan to the body. Throw headshots if you see an opening, sure, but concentrate on the body and be willing to eat shots to do so. Given Maidana’s power and Khan’s chin, he can get the KO at any time, but Khan’s doubtless gonna be constantly on the move, so it’s imperative for Maidana to slow him down and take a bit of zip off of Khan’s punches.
by Verklemptomaniac on Dec 8, 2010 11:37 PM EST reply actions
It's showtime!
Freddie Roach’s number two charge is ready to either show us that he’s the bomb…or to get bombed. Khan is a super talent, trained by the best. Maidana an elitle banger with an impressive resume. This has all the makings of one of the years best.
It may seem premature to say so but f….and that is a big if….Khan passes this test, he becomes the next ‘it’ fighter. He should be ready. Again, if he wins, he should be able to take on either Bradley or Alexander and I think beat either one.
A Brit trained by Manny’s man here in the US will be embraced here…and abroad. Add in his natural but skeptical fan base at home and you have an international star. Fight in Wembley and you have a golden calf.
There is already talk of Floyd. Your everyday banger doesn’t see his name in the same sentence. Khan is special.
It’s his time to show it
People in the states will never embrace Khan. He is British and he has footage floating around on the internet where he is KTFO.
At this point ever time someone slips or falls.....
There is Internet footage.
Every misstep is documented. Forever.
Imagine if it existed years ago.
Ali would have been held against his ‘fall’ at the hands of Henry Cooper.
The tape would have played ad infinitum. The keyboard tapping only adding to the hate.
His glass chin and Dundee’s deed would have fueled threads to this day.
But it didn’t.
Yet in Khans case, it will.
That is until and unless he fights through a a series of powerful foes who are legitimate punching threats. Let’s consider Maidana a start toward redemption.
Khan is no Klitschko.
He is fighting in a much more American filled glamour division.
He is British……not a Soviet style .
We actually like British stars….and this one trains in Cali. With Manny.
His style is exciting.
If his jaw is really brittle, we are about to find out.
Champions….real ones….get knocked down and get up.
Let’s see what happens Saturday.
by pakinpower on Dec 9, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, good post
except that Ali got up and finished Cooper off.
Don’t think many questioned Ali’s chin, maybe for a while as an unproven quantity: that was valid early—
If Khan should ever show the heart an recuperative powers of Ali, Americans—and every one else—will love him.
by Don From Prov on Dec 9, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
He is British
So were the Beatles and the Rolling Stones,the two greatest bands ever.
I’m pretty sure America embraced them.
As far as boxers go,i’d say Ricky Hatton was pretty well embraced too,even after he got KO’d.
If it were me i wouldn’t really care if America embraced me.I’d just be bothered about winning titles and proving the doubters wrong,which i’m sure is Khan’s main motivation.
Don’t forget led zep, black sabbath, iron maiden, judas priest, the who… As for an internet clip of khan getting ktfo? Pac’s got two of them.
by erasedcitizen on Dec 9, 2010 8:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Like I said, he is British. The problem isn’t that he is foreign. For the most part I don’t think American fight fight fans, particularly white ones, really go in for the Nationalistic pride aspect of boxing (for various reasons). However, I do still think an element of the long time boxing rivalry between the U.S. and Great Britain still has some presence.
Hmm. ...
The two greatest bands ever?
Maybe they were great in spite of being British :)
Really, I think the majority of boxing fans love great boxers, no matter where they are from (well, maybe except Philly)
by Don From Prov on Dec 9, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
in spite of being British :)
Haha!..You make me laugh Don.
British bands have always (and still do) crap all over American ones. :D
Thanks to Leonard Chess, Muddy, Walter, Willie, Wolf, Chuck, Etta, etc, etc
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Uh-oh
Howling Bull has been awakened!!
by Don From Prov on Dec 10, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
AWOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Well,
John Lennon did say somethiong like,“Before the Beatles,there was Elvis” and i know that they were all inspired by earlier musicians but,then again,i was talking about bands.
Correction
Looking in my Elvis Presley Greatest Hits sleeve notes,Lennon actually said,“before Elvis there was nothing”.
by Matt Mosley on Dec 11, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
If he said that , he could not have been more wrong. The Rolling Stones knew better.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
It wasn't etched in stone or anything Ted
Just his opinion.
Chuck Berry,Buddy Holly.My father loves em all.
I think Lennon meant Elvis was the best single performer.
When you compare Elvis to the guys who came up from the Delta to Memphis,St. Louis,
and particularly Chicago, it’s like comparing fake with real. Those guys—like Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley were ripped off big time by Elvis. But later, the guys from Chess Records learned how to do business for themselves and sued the shit of the copy cats. The Stones were always willing to give them credit and that’s why I like them to this day. But I grew up on the stuff from Chess Records and just have always felt it was the beginning for the white singers who took over in the 60’s. It’s just a personal viewpoint, but I listen to these guys every day and as Prov will tell you, I have 5 harps in my car at all time so I can play while I drive. I did like the later version of the Beattles—Lady Madona, Strwaberry Hill, etc.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Points taken
You know a lot more about the scene than me.Did
Elvis write any of his own stuff or was he just a stage performer/singer?
I think he was mostly a stage performer, but I DID like him at the end.
When he did those Vegas shows, he was pretty damn good.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I do love to follow certain music. Modern Jazz that dated from the early 50's.
Blues-Chicago style. Boogie-Southern Juke Joint style. Love that stuff.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
He didn't write his own stuff
but sometimes nobody really did—songs like “Stagger Lee” and “CC Rider” are public domain southern black folk songs. His background was so low down that his family worshipped at a mixed-race/black church (in the late 40s early 50s in the South, that’s as low as it got), where he sang in the choir. It was natural as day for him to sound as he did, he knew no other. He did cover a lot of Little Richard’s songs; also, he did some Jerry Lieber/Mike Stoller (white guys into R & B) songs that were recorded by both black and white singers.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Well, it was Tupelo
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Saying that white performers are often bland imitations of the black originals might be cliched--
But it is so very often true!!
What does Spike Lee have a character say: “Elvis ain’t no fooking hero of mine?”
Something like that. Or maybe it was John Wayne. Or both of them.
Point is that Lennon was cool, but that was one of those comments one might want to reconsider.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
We should do a breakdown of the history of popular music, Matt--
Though I don’t know enough to compete.
Blues started it all pretty much for sure (score one for ’Merica)
The British invasion was very real and very influential (yeah Brits!)
And did the Pistols start punk?
But does the U.S. have more punk stars?
Brits for sure get some sub-genres (trip hop) but forget (hmm. .. the name may be a give away) Motown, and to a large degree soul music. Plus, I think we have more hippy-trippy bands with some bite through the 60s. Rap and hip-hop got to be no contest—
So we have the disenfranchised and the very fooking angry markets cornered: Good, or bad??
I am woeful lacking in knowledge here.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
as usual America likely has the biggest and most of the best and there have been some great US bands,but i think as far as bands go,the UK at the very least gives you a run for your money.
Commercial bands anyway.
I mean,when the charts actually meant something,did the Beatles not have the most no.1’s of all time,in both the US and the UK?
I might be wrong there but i thought i had read that somewhere.
An anomaly is The Pretenders which is an American band that sounds more Brit than most Brit bands.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
You need to check that statement about them being American, Ted.
Chrissie Hynde is from Detroit. Most members of the Pretenders, certainly the priginal line-up and a later line-up which included my mate’s mate, were British.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Dec 11, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
I stand corrected. I knew it was too good to be true.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Matt,
as usual America likely has the biggest and most of the best
You are trying to be friendly and a good sport—- :)
But I would strongly disagree with that statement.
We might have the glitziest and most ostentatious: We may be the most steroidal
But I don’t know that is a good thing.
Even in positing about the blues and hip-hop (the position therein, I think is right) was meant a bit tongue in cheek as we have oppressed part of our population so effectively that their outlet is in songs of (beautiful) pain and anger. Plus, 60s: We may have just done more drugs, but not than Keith Richards—not the whole nation combined!!
I was mostly playing, while making a point or two—
Because a point or two is all I got!!
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Arrgh. Erragh
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
No. On your last post
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Good grief--
Have I erred again?
Is my foot in mouth: Are my days posting numbered?
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
But I wasn't referring to our music--
Maybe our general posture in the universe of things
Which would mean that I was off subject again and had erred.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha
Yes i was being a little generous there.There are many things i like about America but there is quite a lot i don’t like too,and i don’t mean that as an insult to you fella’s.
Gun crime,materialism,the stuff you mentioned above Don.
I’ve been there a few times and travelled all over the world (Mexico,New Zealand,Australia,Far East) and have always enjoyed it but i much prefer it over her in England (for some reason:).
There’s no place like home as they say. :)
Guns and crime???
We excel at those Matt.
You need to find a downtrodden and desperate 3rd world nation to touch us there.
It’s true that there’s no place like home, but I’d give a few spots a try.
Maybe Mr. Loathsome will invite me to France. Only I’m afraid of the long flight—
Plus, there is the whole passport thing.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
More like
can’t
get one :) I become nervous outside of New England anyway
Though if I could travel, I’d love to see parts of your country, really
And the theater in London
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been to London a couple of times.Have relatives there.I liked it but i wouldn’t want to live there.
I’m not for the city life.
Parts of Wales,Scotland and places in England like North Yorkshire (not far from me) have great countrysde.
Cumbria is nice too,with the Lake District and all that.
London is obviously where all the tourists head but some of the other cities are good too.
Leeds,my nearest city has really grown and become quite a popular city for tourists over the years.
I hear Oxford,Cambridge and Bath are great for historical and cultural stuff.
Sounds as if we'd share a general interest
in what types of places to see.
Cities are fine but overwhelming.
I like the countryside. Always been sorry not to have visited Scotland—
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Always been sorry not to have visited Scotland—
If you do, then let me know.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Don't start on John Wayne!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I got Fats mixed up with The Beattles,
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
It's the nose I think--
though Ringo has never belly-bumped a piano across a stage
Keith Richards may have.
God knows the things he may have down with, on, or below a piano.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
He did that, Fats did--
Saw him live: He put on a great show. Sweet singing man.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
He was wonderful
Saw him in NYC backed by the Blue Notes—wonderful night.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
That referencing back up to Keith Richards--
Reply button no longer means a thing on this thread
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Okay,
I surrender for the day—
Later Matt,Ted.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, time to prepare for an evening of great fights.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Wlad Klitschko
got KTFO at least once too and he seems to be doing OK for himself nowadays.
The only reason most American’s don’t embrace him is because he isn’t American.
It’s a bit similar to calling your baseball finals the World Series when only American teams take part.
Some American’s seem to realise that there is whole world out there but some remain pretty insular as far as i can see.
I don't think that's right
I think the reason most Americans don’t embrace him is that he’s dead boring to watch most of the time. Maybe he’d have more of a following in spite of that if he was American, but it’s not his European-ness that keeps him from being popular.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He may have been in the past but with a KO ratio like his he’s doing something right.
His last few fights have been more entertaining and i for one can appreciate the man’s skills and power,though the Ibragimov fight left a stink behind which is hard to waft away for America,i can understand that.
However i stand by what i said.Vitali isn’t dead boring to watch yet isn’t popular over there either and i am certain that if both bros were born in America,they would be on HBO regularly and,as American’s in general love the heavyweight’s,i’m sure they would embrace them more.
Admittedly their competition has been pretty dire but that’s not really their fault with the latest contenders all seemingly scared of fighting them.
Vitali is infinitely more popular in the US than Wlad
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
And I have put HER on the map as that sweet little pop tart!
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
We are certainly as jingoistic as any nation . Maybe more so.
But Brick is right.
Manny Steward has helped build a better machine but even Manny knows that Vlad’s approach is not fan friendly. Yes, he knocks out the bi-annual bum but by the time he does it…and the way he does it….many if not most have lost interest.
Point taken
Khan is far more exciting to watch than Wlad and i’m sure any boxer,whatever nationality can become popular and embraced so long as they are exciting to watch and sucessful.
I also think American’s value these kind of foreign fighters who base themselves in the US or even move there permanently more than the ones who fight there now and again.
Strange in a way that though Matt
Americans do value their fighters more than most, but the Brits tend to travel further and in greater numbers than most. (except perhaps, for the Phillipinos).
I can’t say i agree with that.
The smaller countries,the UK,Mexico,Phillipines,Poland,etc always turn out in droves to support their fighters,way more than the US as a nation does.
As far as i can see,US fighters usually have a small following from their hometowns(though usually bigger if it’s an immigrant following),unless they break into the mainstream.
Mainstream being the operative word.
too many fighters in the uk go un noticed to the average Joe. I get the impression that they get more exposure in the us. I could be wrong. But look at Froch, hardly
any one knows who he is, yet he’s a two time world champ, done it the hard way and he’s not even on BBC or f’’kn sky!!
U.S. fighters don’t get hardly any exposure here, it’s almost a closet sport if you’re white (i.e.“mainstream”). I think Matt’s comment re fans in smaller countries is true. FWIW, in the U.S. it’s my personal belief that the mainstream depopularization of boxing is related in major part to anti-hispanic, anti-black bias in a lot of cases, and in a weird reversal on that, a kind of Norhthern white liberal squeamishness at the sight of blacks fighting, because of white guilt + the emotional/historical association of boxing with slavery—boxing matches in the Old South were fought by proxy—the slaves did the fighting, sometimes with the occasionally honored promise of freedom it they won their owner enough money, sometimes not. Another reason is a perception of boxing as fundametally crooked, based on lingering memories of mob involvement and fixed fights. But this far away from the mob in time, race is the elephant in the room, to my mind.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
by BoxAnne on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Incredibly on point, BA
But when they ‘rise up’ and grab us by throats the way Ali and Tyson did, there is no ignoring them. Whether it be fear or respect, or both, the primal nature Tyson’s power got our attention.
Oscar and Sugar Ray had the benifit of being Olympians when the Olympics had little or no media competition. “Up close and personal”, the invention of Roone Arledge I believe, was the solitary equivalent on HBO’s 24/7. Sugar Ray went from an Olympian to Madison Avenue in a hearbeatWhen Oscar’s mom died, we became connected to him even faster.
The cold war victories over Cubans and Soviet fighter didnt hurt in galvanizing the American audience either. Big George Foreman endearing himself with little American flags went a long way for him in public perception, even with his ups an downs in the ring.
thanks for that--btw,
I’ve repeatedly, incredibly, and enragingly come up against racism + white liberal squeamishness co-existing—teaming, if you will—in the same people, who are legion.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Very interesting points regarding racial bias as a component of boxing’s downfall…
by erasedcitizen on Dec 9, 2010 2:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's a component all sports. Not just boxing.
But boxing has so many fewer points of entry than most other sports.
For one, most families don’t send their children to the boxing classes to learn to fight. Or to compete in leagues. Unless they have no alternative.
Even then, it is a lonely endeavor.
It is as much a tool of survival as it is social gratification.
At the spectator level, there really is no boxing equivalent to season tickets or luxury boxes. Sure, the fan can buy the occassional ringside seat and experience the pageantry and excitement of real battle. But the distance to the ring is much further than it may be to any other field of play.
The fan….or even the former childhood player cum fan…can live
vicariously at court side or the fifty yard line and get his rocks off.
But watching two underprivileged ‘others’ in a blood feud is another animal altogether.
Boxing has plenty of demons. Racism is but one. On the other hand, it has been able to overcome even that when the right mixture of characteristics converge in one fighter.
Here’s hoping we get another…..once Manny leaves the stage.
Great post. I am intrigued. I hope someone can explore this more in a fanpost. Socio-economic ills manifesting itself or its effects in boxing more profoundly than in other sports.
by erasedcitizen on Dec 9, 2010 8:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hmm. It's in several books.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
You Might Be Interested
to read Unforgivable Blackness, by Geoffrey C. Ward (Random House/Vintage Books, 2004), an excellent biography of Jack Johnson that provides a lot of background & insight on the subject.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
But look, this could well be agenerational thing. My kids don't even
see race playing much of a role anymore. One lives in L.A. and the othet in Boston. Their kids will be even more racial neutral. Maybe the promlem is us.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
In February 2008, I noted a headline Ifollowed by a lengthy article written by Dave Bennett in the Boston Globe’s Section D that read: "Choose One: Black Man -White Woman." I pointed this out to a friend sitting across from me and he said, "It’s getting old."
Gee, Mr. Bennett, thanks for pointing this difference out, but it is indeed wearing thin, and I have a suspicion that my 47 year old daughter and 33 year old son really don’t look at it that way. I believe that their respective values, life experience and education make them look at thing just a bit differently. As I have often noted, we have been inundated over the years by those who continue to call attention to difference, in this case Race vs. Gender, rather than treat it more homogeneously and as something that is contained within the melting pot called America and as one nation and one people.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Bless Your Kids--Your Kids Atypical
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I don't think so. Very typical of an LA person these days.
Two years ago, both head coaches in the Super Bowl were African Americans and much was made about that. If it should occur again, nothing will be said about it. It simply will be a normal occurrence. No big deal. It is what it has become.
They believe and so do I that the the more the liberal papers such as the Boston Globe and New York Times continue to point out the differences, the more those differences will be the primary and wrong focus—except with those who have rightly learned otherwise during more recent generations. It’s time we realized we are functioning in a different but natural kind of demographic—one not contrived by some quota-driven socioeconomic formula. That kind of contrivance has become outdated and no amount of calling our attention to it will make much of a dent to a more enlightened generation. It is what it has become and it’s not going to change.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Yes, the college students who I interact with
seem, overall, to make much less of race.
Babyboomers might have done some good in spite of themselves.
by Don From Prov on Dec 10, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. I’ll check it out.
by erasedcitizen on Dec 10, 2010 11:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s a component all sports. Not just boxing.
Very true—for most of the 20th Century, up till about the late 70’s, boxing was second only to baseball as the U.S. sports pastime, and was far less integrated for much longer, so for that span of time, racial influences on sports were reflected the most readily in the ring.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Froch
But look at Froch, hardly
any one knows who he is, yet he’s a two time world champ, done it the hard way and he’s not even on BBC or f’’kn sky!!
Exactly Phill.That’s why he hasn’t got a big national following but he sells Nottingham Arena out.He’s had little terrestrial or Sky tv exposure and the man in the street doesn’t really know who he is.
I feel a bit sorry for him in that sense because he’s fought his arse off against contender after contender and i know it bothers him that he doesn’t get the recognition he deserves.
Part of it is just bad timing with the recession and Haye and Khan being established slightly before him.
The UK guys who had exposure though;Haye,Khan,Hatton,Calzaghe,Naz,Benn ,etc all had big followings.
Calz's popularity was late arriving.
Especially when you consider he fought Eubank so ’early’on. You would have thought that in itself would have propelled his status. Benn had the advantage of terrestrial tv, as did big Frank and for his early years, so did Naz, till Sky got him.
Now I'm going to disagree with most of this because the boxing wotld is an extremely small one these
days and those that follow it seriously are not into the socioeconomic stuff as much as they are into the economics of the sport. Fans could care less where a fighter is from as long as he brings excitement into the ring. Case in point-Katsides—or even Litzau. If Pirig fights Danny Jacobs, we can read what we want to read into the fight, but at the end, it’s a tough hombre knocking out an overhyped one.
Ove the years, the content went from Black, Asian and ethnic white including U’K.)—-to Black, Asian and Hispanic—to Black, Asian, Hispanic and Eastern Euro. The Klits have started the Eastern Euro explosion and use Germany as the pass through.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Saying that
The “following’s” of Tim Bradley,Andre Berto,Paul Williams and Chad Dawson really go to show that American’s in general don’t even embrace their own fighters.
Arf,arf. :)
People like De la Hoya are popular more for his pop star like status, rather than his boxing achievements. Genuine boxing fans know who’s who though.
by Phill on Dec 9, 2010 8:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Us Brits are no better some times Matt...
Remember when Kahn was booed and Barrera got cheered! :-)
by Phill on Dec 9, 2010 8:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh,i never said i like him as a person. :)
He makes outlandish,arrogant statements regularly.
But i rate him as a boxer.This saturday will tell if he is overrated or not.
I really don’t see a Prescott situation though.That happenend more through Khan and his team’s stupidity and naivety than anything,imo.
Or when Hagler was nearly lynched--
We all have our bad moments. Myself, I just like good warriors and passionate fans.
by Don From Prov on Dec 9, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Hi Phil,
I really think we might all be drawn to fighters who have some regional or other affiliation in common with us—
But I feel sorry for the fans who tune out a competitor from another country or of another race—
Whatever: They are closing themselves out by dint of their closed minds.
by Don From Prov on Dec 9, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Don, yes. It's quite normal, even natural to root for the 'home fighter'...
As long as they’re decent people, I find it hard to support anyone who is a complete pratt, no matter how good they may be. I can appreciate their talents, but it wouldn’t make me like or support them. Most of my boxing heroes from all over the place anyway ! :-)
Naz was soooo easy to hate.
I loved when he came here and was thrilled when MAB set him straight.
When Hatton arrived, it was fun. I suspeected his brawling style would meet it’s Waterloo soon enough…but the British fans were something special. In fact…there’s ‘only one Ricky Hatton’ is possibly the most memorable chant since " Ali..Ali…"
And hating Naz
likely had nothing to do with ethnicity
and all to do with his assholeicity.
by Don From Prov on Dec 10, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Brilliamt!
assholeicity
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Exactly
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Meant for Don
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Yes, I agree
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Boxers have to be more than just fighters in this global culture
Manny has transcended the game because of how and who he has become.
All of the most celebrated boxers of our time and any for that matter have done so.
That’s just how it works.
We love celebrity.
There are a few things that Khan has said and done recently that have helped.
One, he is lining himself up behind his friend Hatton.
Two, behind his friend Manny.
Three, he wants Floyd.
By claiming that his target is to avenge loss to the American, Floyd Mayweather, but that he does not want to fight his stablemate and friend ( and I suspect idol and role model)’ he is gaining good will. Add to that his standing in Golden Boys stable and the fact that he speaks English, there is really no reason he can’t be a star.
He just has to win convincingly
Manny has transcended the game because of how and who he has become.
Yeah,but being able to fight and be the best is what matters more than anything.
Manny’s a nice guy,Floyd isn’t,yet both of them are the top PPV draws at present time.
By the way,although i commented above that i never said i liked him as a person,i don’t particularly dislike him either.I’m a bit indifferent in that respect to be honest.I care much more about how a boxer fights than his personality.It’s not a popularity contest as far as i see it.I just like to watch skilled sportsmen perform at the top level.
I do think that Khan still gets way too much hatred from a lot of Brits more than anyone to be honest,and i still think there may be underlying reasons for that which i won’t go into but which i’m sure you can guess.
Personally i wish him the all the best and he probably isn’t really anymore outspoken than a lot of fighters.
He may be a bit arrogant too but so are a lot of top sportsmen.Maybe you need to be a bit like that to get to the top.Some would call it supreme confidence but whatever it is,fighters from Ali to Leonard to RJJ to Floyd all had it,even before they made it.
I do think that Khan still gets way too much hatred from a lot of Brits more than anyone to be honest,and i still think there may be underlying reasons for that which i won’t go into but which i’m sure you can guess.
Not only can I guess….I think it’s very elegant of you to not even mention it.
Props.
I’ve never been called “elegant” before and i can’t say i like it but i know what you mean and thanks. :)
yeah...I reserve it as a substitute for "slick" diplomacy
Take it as the compliment it was meant to be.
"It's nice to be nice." Tee shirt worn by a pyscho killer maniac in one of Elmore Leonard's books.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Oh, all those nice American boys next door
with dead cat skulls buried in leafy suburban backyards—
Practice for the future.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
it is very elegant of you not to mention it, but it’s good you did the didn’t mentioning out loud, because, re any real love or star/icon status boxer worship, in the US will never be his—this is unfair, and I don’t condone or join it, but it’s true, and it will be true for a long, long time. Which is a shame.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Please define "tosser."
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Wanker
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Thnak you.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I am learning to as well!!!
he speaks English
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Yep. It will.
I hope he does ok. It would be good to see him get cracked and take it too.
Shake off a few demons (and doubters!).
I’m still away at the moment, I assume it’s box office??
Yeah
with the British/German card (which is falling apart).
I think he’ll have to take a few too.It could get interesting.I also think the speed difference will be huge though.
Lennox proved he could take big shots(against Mercer,Briggs,etc),even though he got badly KO’d twice in his career.
Maybe Khan will do the same,or maybe he will do everything he can to avoid it.
More likely the latter. :)
It’s not so much the Prescott loss that bothers me about Khan. It’s that even Willie Limond dropped him. Lennox was KO’d by fighters with legit powers at least.
by erasedcitizen on Dec 9, 2010 8:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Head: Khan WIDE UD12, with a lot of tense moments, especially early, as Maidana stalks.
Heart: Maidana KO10, as Khan gets a little sloppy with a big lead and eats a monster right hand.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 9, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions
I hope Smith beats DeGale.
He is ‘mr arrogant’ personified. I know he’s flash and all, but shit, he’s just, just…..
He's just flash
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 9, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I rather like him. I remember his tribute to Daz and it was very moving. I have liked him ever since that because it showed the
REAL person.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
He still acts like an asshole most of the time
So I’m not willing to 95% of his in ring actions go, just because you claim to know the “REAL person”.
If you act like a tool, then you’re a tool.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
Whatever
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Wow
Great point.
Is that really all that you have to say? It’s not like the point being discussed is a big deal or anything, but to simply brush aside criticism, as if answering it is beneath you, is disrespectful.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
No, whatever is an American way to say, "well, we will have to agree to disagree."
Calling a boxer an "asshole’"is probably more disrespectful. Or saying someone “claims to know.” And why criticize me for having a personal opinion about someone?
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Hmm. ...
We may need a sociological study on what defines the “real” person
+ one on how much of the time one has to act the TOOL to be a TOOL
i.e. Is Tyson a tool or just an asshole? Or maybe a human who’s been mangled but is still trying
(in both senses of the word)
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I do micro economical model building, but no sociologiacl shite.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Shite may be the
KEY word, as in, “DONALD is full of shite.”
Or, “SOMEONE has a shite attitude.” That sort of thing, you know?
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Sociology isn't shite
Ted just seems to want to attack it, for some reason.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
You talking to me?
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Whatever
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
And why criticize me for having a personal opinion about someone?
I never did this, I criticised the opinion. It’s a very different thing.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Khan UD12
Ortiz TKO 10
Perez UD 12
Mares KO 4
Never been a Vic believer. Gonna go tell him in person on Saturday.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Dec 9, 2010 1:57 PM EST reply actions
Kid, be careful if you do.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I am beginning to like Khan
and fear that Maidana is stuck at a particular point in development—
I say “fear” because I love those one punch monsters.
I’m really looking forward to the fight and can live with either as the winner.
Bantamweight fights look good, to: Like Perez and Mares.
MM is one very live underdog here. If he stuns, AK, he will close the show because
he is very good at that. Khna mist hit and move. Remember, Roach did NOT make this fight,
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Just saying
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
"Blob on" ????
There is always a new one to hear.
by Don From Prov on Dec 10, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
'Blob on' as in 'spot on' or 'dead right ' or 'Damn straight!'
I do it for Ted, really Don…. It keeps him on his toes. ;-)
I can'tbelieve people are falling for the Khan hype AGAIN
What win has he had since he was obliterated by Prescott that makes people think he’s a formidable boxer? Didn’t you guys pick Kevin Mitchell over Katsidis? Don’t buy into the Brit hype so much.
Khan does great against smaller fighters that can’t punch much. Against a guy that matches up well in size and is a big puncher, well, it’s a foregone conclusion. Khan will be KOd.
What win has he had
Well, he has had two very solid wins, actually. One of these being against the notably skilled, and undeniably fast, Malignaggi. Khan’s win against Kotelnik is also a good one, considering two things; how wide that victory was, and how well Kotelnik has done recently.
makes people think he’s a formidable boxer?
Formidable is an intertesting word. If you mean that he has shown fantastic skills in his ability to box, tremendous handspeed, and strong mental discipline, then I would say that Khan has shown all those things.
However, we aren’t really talking about him needing to be “formidable”, we are talking about whether or not he has the attributes to beat Maidana.
Maidana is slow, and telegraphs his punches. Someone like Khan should be capable of picking him apart all night, and hurt him a considerable amount.
Khan could be KO’d here, and it wouldn’t surprise me that much if this happens, but I don’t think that it will.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 9, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
No
What win has he had since he was obliterated by Prescott that makes people think he’s a formidable boxer?
Well, he has since thoroughly beaten Kotelnik and Malignaggi, both of whom are easily top 10 junior welterweights. Khan never even fought anyone in the top 10 at lightweight, so there is that major step up in class. None of us has said his chin is anything other than bad, but even that might not be as bad as it’s made out to be, since sometimes moving up in weight can make the chin less shaky (less weight draining = less dehydration of the cochlea and tympanic membrane = better balance). And he’s very clearly a different fighter now than he was pre-Prescott. Roach has him fighting quite differently than he fought when he was at domestic level.
Didn’t you guys pick Kevin Mitchell over Katsidis?
We picked Katsidis TKO-11
http://www.badlefthook.com/2010/5/14/1472330/fight-previews-katsidis-mitchell
Khan does great against smaller fighters that can’t punch much.
Just because this is true….
Against a guy that matches up well in size and is a big puncher, well, it’s a foregone conclusion. Khan will be KOd.
It doesn’t mean this is true.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Plu, Khan is a very big Jr. Welter himelf
So matching him up with someone his size is nearly impossible.
I’m assuming his speed becomes power.
And his training is far superior.
Roach has an unusul condidence in him.
And Freddie hasn’t been wrong lately when he goes out on a limb.
no question
Let’s face it, this is a pretty big mismatch in most respects. It just so happens that the guy with far superior skills has an incredibly suspect chin, and the guy with inferior skills has serious power. Going back and watching the Khan-Prescott fight, the guy was actually wobbled a bit by a Prescott jab before he got hit with the heavy stuff that put him down. Roach has no doubt done wonders for his technique and strategy, but you really can’t fix that kind of poor punch resistance. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Marcos lands a meaningful right hand, this thing is OVER. It’s just that the disparity in boxing skill makes that a very iffy proposition, which is why it’s a fascinating fight.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 10, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Khan does great against smaller fighters that can’t punch much. Against a guy that matches up well in size and is a big puncher, well, it’s a foregone conclusion. Khan will be KOd.
Khan does great against smaller fighters. Khan has the advantages in height, reach, size and speed against Maidana, so Maidana doesn’t really fit into the above criteria, which means that it’s not a foregone conclusion that Khan will be KO’d, but still a high possibility.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
Maidana Gameplan
I think he really needs to make this an ugly, street brawl. Get Khan to open up and forget about his training from Roach. Make Khan fight with his heart instead of his head and his chin will become wide open. Lean on Khan, tie him up and literally throw him if he tries to get away, and get him on the ropes/in the corner. Maidana has a size advantage that he should really utilize. While Khan is taller he does strike me as being stick-like, and Maidana seems solid at 5’9".
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
What is Tyson's line....about everybody having plan until they get hit.
That goes for both men.
I like your plan Waldo…and I suspect that is exactly what Maidana thinks he may be able to do. If he can I think we all know what to expect.
On the other hand, I would have to believe that that is exactly what Khan has trained for; that is getting roughed up into a war. If he is truly studying Manny, he should do what Manny did against Margarito. Expect the worst….but stay on plan.
Be disciplined. Back out. Control the distance.
As I said just above…Maidana can be dropped. My advice to Khan is that when he falls….do not let him up.
though as Ortiz learned
you’d better not rush in to finish him, lest you eat a monster right hand. That was such a pretty shot (the Ortiz KD in round 1, immediately after Ortiz put Maidana down).
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 10, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ortiz not only didnt know better...he thought he was invincible.
And so did a lot of others.
Khan cant possibly think he is…or he’s in for a whole lotta trouble.
So Khan can easily avoid Maidana if he just tries and stalk Khan moving forward, which he should remember from the Kotelnik fight. However, Maidana should literrally rush in (im talking sprinting head-first) into Khan and rough him up. Elbows from hooks if he tries to slip out, I’m talking straight out brawl to rattle the training out of Khan. Honestly I don’t think he has the mental discipline to keep to the gameplan when the going gets rough. If Freddie’s gameplan isn’t working to perfection early, I see Khan blatantly disregard his training regress to the type of fighter you saw pre-Peterson.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 10, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
This is not an easy strategy for Marcos to implement and he may not have the skills to do so, but it would make for a fantastic fight. Marcos needs to negate Khan’s speed because Power hurts but Speed kills.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 10, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
no question
and, if you’ve watched Maidana fight before, he’s definitely willing to engage in borderline dirty tactics (go back and watch the Corley fight; if that wasn’t in Argentina, he would have had 2-3 points taken, and maybe even been disqualified). He should absolutely turn this into a wrestling match, and be willing to forfeit points to do it, because let’s face it; he’s exceedingly unlikely to win a decision.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 10, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Those are good points, Waldo--
On the other hand, a great jab and good movement can frustrate all of those ideas.
We’ll see: I’ll be cheering for Marcos, but expect to be treated to a nice little clinic if Khan handles him—
win/win :)
Thanks Don for the kind words. I am also hoping for a good fight but my expectations pretty much match yours.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Dec 10, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Before we move on....let us not forget....
We are all talking about Khan’s chin…..but Maidana goes down as well.
The fact that he got up from and went on to beat Ortiz speaks well for him…..but Ortiz, despite his power, is no Khan.
I think if Khan connects and drops Maidana, whether he gets up or not, he goes back down for good. Khan is that much better.
True
but to be fair, Maidana did manage to lure Ortiz into trading shots, so Ortiz landed some pretty big stuff to put him down. I doubt Khan is going to be willing to sit on his punches enough to generate that kind of power. On the other hand, Khan’s fantastic speed may compensate for that.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 10, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I’m watching Shotime and recording HBO Sat. night. I think Sho has the better, more compelling matches. And I like to see Darchinyan get beat to hear his excuses. Unless, of course, Maidana Lacyfies Khan. That’s why Khan is so intruiging…when he’s good, he’s very good, when he’s bad he gets KTFO.
"In war, as in prostitution, the amateur is often better than the professional". Napoleon.
Another great word for the boxing dictionary--
Lacyifie: To have ones short-comings brutally exposed.
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
actually
lacyfied would mean to have one’s shortcomings made maninfest
Frank spoke of “lacyfieing,” which of course means to dothe exposing
by Don From Prov on Dec 11, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
another subject that we touched on but could use some attention is Roach
Freddie is a master matchmaker at this point in his role as trainer. He has oftenbeen given credit for… and even accused of… choosing the right styles for Pacquiao, so what should make us think that he has done anything less for his protege Khan.
Add to Freddie’s role the absolute need for Golden Boy NOT to repeat their Ortiz mistake…and turn a top prospect to into a suspect. I have to believe their matchmaker believes this to be mismatch and thus a star vehicle for AK.
Of course I realize Maidana can explode all the best laid plans…but I think Freddie knows more that me…… and that Khan drops and stops the limited Maidana
But Roach was not involved in the matchmaking of this fight. And therein lies the
danger for AK.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
with all due respect
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
So I understand Ted
He was pretty clear about that before the summer…or should I say before he saw his charge beat Malignaggi. After that night’s performance and since GB got Khan the contract terms he wanted, I don’t recall Freddie saying anything that would suggest Khan was doing this against his better instincts.
He may…and should…have some reservations but this training him, having him bang with Manny in sparring and such, all suggests more than tacit acceptance.
I think Roach knows this is a mismatch. A dangerous one for sure….but a mismatch.
Now I want to amend my comments a bit about Golden Boy. I don’t know if they are as smart as I gave them credit for. Plus,they win no matter who wins. If they were smart however, they would be banking on Khan
The Roach Factor, as I see it, includes a lot of things including training at the Wild Card, Freddie’s symbiosis with his charges between rounds, his uncanny ability to make matches, his ability to mind f—k his opponents, his ability to teach as in Pac becoming a fully skilled fighter, etc., etc. It should carry Khan in this fight, but MM remains a dangerous and very live underdog. If I were a fighter, the two guys I would love to have in my corner would be Steward or Freddie, but a third one might be Miguel Diaz—who is MM’ trainer-I believe.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
The Roach Factor
We’re always talikng quite a bit about how fights are made, promoted and sold to us and the public at large. By itself, that’s more about the business than most readers care to know.
But as in the case of Roach, trainers at his level, of which there are few, have a significant influence behind the scenes in making matches for their charges. We call it a mnumber of things, some complimementary, some not. Smart, brilliant, overly protective, cherry-picking, ducking, and what have you….but the fact remains. It is an indispensible and invaluable tool for a fighter to have someone making his matches throughout his career.
Teddy Brenner fascinates me. You never read about guys like Brenner but their hand is in everything we love. Their are others that Arum, King, GB and others use to make their matches.
The subject is fascinating and larger than we often read.
You could write a book.
But there were times of less cherry-picking, yes?
Never see them again, though, I bet.
Roach is a smart man.
Never see them again, though, I bet.
If you are willing to give MMA a shot, then you would like how little cherry – picking there is there. It’s one of its main appeals, to me.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
how little cherry – picking there is there.It’s one of its main appeals, to me.
Plenty of steroids though.That’s one of the things that put me off it. :)
I know boxing has it too,but not as much so,imo.
Yeah
There’s a huge amount of drug abuse, which is a sad reality of so much sport now.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Dec 11, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not so much inAmerican football or basketball. But far more in Baseball, Track & Field,
cycling,
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
Back in the day, the best fought the best more often and in that regard, there was far less cherry picking but cherry picking has more than one component.
Mayweather uses the time betwen fights component, while Pac uses the opponent component. Got to love it. I prefr Pac’s type to May’s.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
I can probably make an argument that one day, Today will be "back in the day"
And tomorrow, with even more information technology and transparency, there will be far more discerning decision making aka ‘cherry picking’.
It’s sort of like saying that if Sugar Ray Robinson knew as much as we knew and are capable of knowing, he too would have made different decisions. Or “the more you know, the more you know”.
But then again….and Im not alone here….I/we can make make an argument about anything.
Because that is after all…what we do.
BUT, it is what it is and was what it was. lol
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
It would make agreat fanpost.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
"Back in the Day" is a good way to cover one's ass. On the other hand. it is somewhat synonymous
with Old School which in turn only has significance to one who uses it. Being as old as I am, both phrases mean before 1960. Anything from 1945-1963 is where I kind of draw the line, But I could see someone half my age drawing it at 1975. I go with the Mike Silver version here. Back in the day, we had Marciano, Charles, Walcott, Moore, SRR, LaMotta, etc. Check out my site on www.tedsares.com and look at the Old School page.
I don't take personal insults well. My wires are such so that when it happens, i'm not going to put on head gear, lace up the gloves and put in the mouthpiece. I'm going to drop the gloves and just let the adrenaline take off.
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