How many fighters can you name that were never involved in a controversial decision?
by thefightnut.com on Feb 5, 2010 5:35 PM EST
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Obviously, I'm talking about prominent guys with long careers. With all the bad decisions, I was thinking about just how common they have always been. Virtually every fighter has been touched by at least one. In the modern era, Mike Tyson is the only one that stood out, mainly because most of his wins and all of his losses came by KO. It's really remarkable for a guy to fight that many fights without ever being in a disputed decision.
I'm sure there are many older fighters that may fit, but I'm not enough of a student of those guys (and they fought so many fights) to know. Did Marciano have any really controversial decisions?
So who else can we name that would fit this bill? I'm not talking about just close fights, I'm talking about decisions that were seriously second-guessed.
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Sven Ottke
Nah, just kidding.
I’m having trouble thinking of too many. Khaosai Galaxy is one. I don’t think Finito Lopez was involved in any particularly controversial decisions.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Vitali, too. Lewis was a controversial stoppage, but not a controversial decision.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
The decision to stop the fight by the argument that Vitali was doing well was highly questioned at the time. I’ll grant you that it was questioned almost exclusively by morons, but it was questioned nonetheless. Fight ending decisions to me included stoppage decisions as well as judges scores.
In the spirit of this weekend, I’ll provide an answer that almost feels like cheating: Edwin Valero. Kelly Pavlik comes to mind as well. KO artists are the easiest names to come up with in this game.
valuev shoulda retained
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Feb 10, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
close descision but not a controversial Desc.
by Sweet science on Feb 10, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'd put it as controversial
There was a pretty decent minority that thought Valuev won the fight. When I think close but not controversial, I think of something like Cotto-Mosley, where almost everyone I know scored it 115-113 Cotto and there isn’t a sizable contingent who thought Mosley won.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I watched that fight with the sound off (Haye-Valuev)
and scored it 116-112 Valuev.
Funny how listening to someone telling you who is winning actually convinces you sometimes. Not all the time, I grant, but some of the time it does make a difference.
Same with Calzaghe/Hopkins; Watched it (outside a casino in Glasgow, freezing my tits off but not wanting to miss the fight; they wouldn’t let us in cos he was a member but none of the rest of us were) with a guy who is a massive Calzaghe fan, and with him in my ear all the way through I agreed that Calzaghe had won the fight. I’ve watched it a few times since and scored it 115-114 Hopkins every time.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I forgot to add, I scored Haye/Valuev a draw when I watched it the first time, but could have given it 115-113 either way.
With the sound off, there was no question for me, Valuev won the fight. It was a shit fight, and a shit performance, but in the same way Holyfield won a shit fight vs Valuev, I think Valuev won vs Haye.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
i can’t watch the haye fight again if you paid me to. i think i had him winning by a point. i’ll take you’re word though on this one.
i watched the hopkins/calzaghe fight a few times and each time i have have hopkins winning each time. same as the first time i saw it at the bar.
very rarely do the announcers sway me. i think they are all morons to begin with (yes even bernstein but he has improved and is less biased then he was back in the old espn days) so they have never influenced me in the least bit.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 10, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, but you wouldn't know.... ;)
I’m talking about subconscious effect, not a conscious thought process which goes, “Oh well, if he said he did well that round, then I’ll score it for him.”
You won’t know how much they effect you until you watch a fight that you scored a while back, and then score it again without sound. You might be surprised. :)
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
ive done it. it has not effect. i mute the hbo idiots most of the time live and watch the reply. it has no real effect on me.
going to a fight live and then watching it on tv gave give you a different perspective though. i cant think of a fight off hand to give an example of but i have experienced that.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 10, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
not really controversial, but apparently some people believed that he lost the rematch to taylor. i didn’t, but whatever
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Feb 10, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Lewis got a dodgy draw in the first Holyfield fight.
How anybody with full use of their eyes could have given Holyfield a draw in that fight is beyond me.
Or are we only looking for guys who have never had a controversial win?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
yea
that wasn’t a majority draw, it was a split decision. Brick just told me the other day, but I can’t remember the crazy (female’s) name who gave Holy the decision in that one. It was insanity.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I know that when questioned, she couldn't justify it.
If anything, Holyfield deserved more credit for the second fight. Had that one been called a draw, then I could kind of see it.
I thought Lewis won the first by about 118-110, and the second by about 116-112. Without watching them again I can’t be sure of my cards, but I think they were that way. I know I had the second fight closer.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Eugenia Williams gave the fight to Holyfield, but the Stanley Christodoulou (116-113 Lewis) and Larry O’Connell (115-115) cards weren’t really much better. That whole thing was a disgrace.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Feb 9, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
What do you mean?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
I mean that the scoring was awful. Even 116-113 Lewis was too close. Eugenia Williams takes most of the flak, but the other two cards were awful, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Feb 11, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose that's because if her card was better/correct, then Lewis would have at least gotten the win.
That said, I agree with what you’re saying. As I said above, I think I scored the fight 118-110 Lewis. I’ll have another look when I have time and see how I see it now.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Sam Peter was on the controversial side
Though more close than controversial really
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Marciano’s first fight with LaStarza was a bit contraversial, but the Rock took care of business in their rematch.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 6, 2010 2:43 PM EST reply actions
love the 2nd fight. lastarza was doing his thing the whole fight and hanging in there. then just could not even raise his arms to defend himself in round 11.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 9, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Fres Oquendo
Just kidding……
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 6, 2010 2:46 PM EST reply actions
So help me...
If anybody says Sugar Ray Leonard, I’m going to snap.
Marvin Hagler, FTW!
"Gowin on fourth and 14 will punt it away. He hangs it very high, angling it for the near sideline...HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!!! HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!! Brian Milne might've fallen on it at the ten yard line! It's the New Orleans Saints' football! Brian Milne, the most unlikely hero of them all, falls on the fumble, the muff by Hakim! There is a God after all!" -- Jim Henderson
by hakimdropstheball on Feb 6, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions
Agreed..... :)
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
second Hearns fight as well.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 9, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Frank Bruno and Nigel Benn either knocked you out or were stopped in the process
Bruno 40 (38 KOs) – 5 (5 KOs) .
Benn 42 (35 KOs) – 5 (4 KOs). Lost a SD to Sugarboy Malinga and got the draw with Eubank. Neither was controversial.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
i’ve only seen benn fight mcclellan, but i hated him for his asshollery after gerard collapsed
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Feb 7, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Benn was pissed with King
I remember his post fight with UK commentator and serial idiot Gary Newbon " ‘No, mate. They only brought him over to bash me up. I’m gonna say what I want to say. Let me tell you that now. “They” meaning King , who would later say his fighter, McClellan, “quit like a dog”. (Gerald was a guy who bred pitbulls for fighting….) King – all fucking heart , as usual.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Alejandro Berrio
29-5, 28 knockout wins, 5 knockout losses, only decision was against a guy who was 0-6 coming in
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Very good one. Chill-or-be-chilled fighters fill this bill.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 6, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
But his stoppage loss to Stieglitz was controversial
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don’t think so off the top of my head.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Feb 6, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose you could technically say that the Lou Savarese fight could have been a DQ? OR a NC?
I don’t personally, but I have heard other people say that.
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
no his decisions were not close.
however, he was ahead on the scorecards in the douglas fight at the time of the stoppage. that would have been controversial to say the least.
then again there was also the 14 seconds douglas was down in round 8..
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 9, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
its very real. watch the fight.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 11, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Believe it or not, I have actually seen it, just like probably every other boxing fan on earth. I realize that the count literally took longer than 10 seconds; the question is whether that is a legitimate source of controversy regarding the outcome of the fight.
uhhh yea….
if a fighter is down for about 14 seconds but the referee is going 9 then pauses, then yea it had an effect on the outcome of the fight….
yanno because the other fighter should have won.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 12, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
No. Fighters often stay down as long as possible before getting up, to allow themselves to recuperate. We have no way of knowing today whether Douglas would have gotten up sooner if the referee had counted faster. Just because he got up at 9 on a slow count doesn’t mean he still would have been down at 10 on a faster count.
In fact, the circumstantial evidence suggests that he, in fact, would have gotten up sooner if the count had been faster. First of all, Buster has said so – obviously, he’s a biased source, but it still counts for a little. Second and more importantly, if you watch the video closely, you can see that at the count of 2, he bangs his fist on the canvas, indicating that he was already at least somewhat lucid. Then, at the count of 5, it appears that he begins to get up and then immediately thinks better of it. Then, immediately after that, he looks directly at the referee and makes eye contact with him, as if to indicate that he intends to get up and is following the count.
None of this is conclusive proof, but it strongly suggests that Buster could have and would have beaten the count no matter what. At the very least, it’s clear that no one can fairly say that he definitely wouldn’t have beaten the count.
The only possible argument I could see for a Tyson supporter is that maybe, if Douglas had gotten up sooner, Tyson would have been able to finish him with a second shot before the round ended. But in the end, that isn’t a good argument either. As you can see from that Youtube clip, the round had already begun at 0:00 and Douglas didn’t hit the canvas until 2:51. So, there were less than 10 seconds left in the round, so as long as Douglas beats the count, Tyson shouldn’t have gotten another shot at him.
Basically, the whole “long count” excuse was just Don King b.s. Nobody had even thought of that possibility before King started complaining about it well after the fight had ended.
by taco pal on Feb 12, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rambling jibberish.
it was a long and slow count. my point was simple as that and thats not disputable.
fucks sake let it go man.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 12, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Edwin Valero..... :)
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Joe Frazier . Was the first Ali fight close enough to be considered controversial ? Not in my eyes . Dont mention Jumbo Cummings , Ted ;-) . Was Dempsey in any controversies vis a vis the decision? I didnt see the Gibbons fight lol.
Frazier was robbed by his own corner in Manilla though.....
After the 14th:
Ali; “I want to quit. Cut the gloves off, Angelo….”
Frazier; “Don’t you fucking dare pull me out, Eddie….”
This somehow led to Frazier losing the fight. It baffles me how the guy who had said he’d had enough won the fight, and the guy who would never have given up, never have backed down, lost. Screw you, Eddie Futch….
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
i love eddie but yea he fucked up royally there. i wouldn’t have forgiven him if he did that to me. especially against a fighter who i loathed to death
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 10, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yep.
I’d have been nearly as angry as Paulie was post-Hatton. (That’s humour, FTR….lol)
I don’t even think Ali would have come out for the 15th, but if he had, he’d never have seen the round through in the face of a snarling, malevolent little bastard like Frazier. There is no way in the world I can see Ali winning that fight unless Futch pulled Frazier out.
Is it right that Joe hasn’t spoken to Eddie Futch to this day?
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
He hasn't spoken to Eddie in a while
Futch died in 2001..
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
yea..hes been dead
i think joe forgave him if i remember in his book.
also im almost certain they still talked after the fight.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Feb 10, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, bad turn of phrase.
I was typing in a hurry. A better way of asking would have been, “Is it true that Joe never did forgive Eddie, and that he never spoke to him again?”
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
Thought of one more
Naseem Hamed. Most of his wins were by KO anyway, but the decisions were all blowouts, and his loss wasn’t controversial either/
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
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