Manny Pacquiao easily dominates Joshua Clottey over 12
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 12:40 AM EST
in Post-Fight Analysis
127 comments
Joshua Clottey said he'd be aggressive.
Joshua Clottey lied.
Manny Pacquiao (51-3-2, 38 KO) easily won a unanimous decision against a tentative, scared Clottey (35-4, 20 KO) on scores of 120-108, 119-109, 119-109. Bad Left Hook scored it 119-109 for Pacquiao.
Clottey just did not come to win this fight. In the second (the only round we gave Clottey), it looked like maybe it would be a fight. But it was not. Pacquiao landed 246/1231 (20%), to Clottey's 108/399 (27%). The fight was not even remotely close. Not even close. Miguel Cotto put up far more of a fight than did Clottey, who gave the fight away. Period. He gave the fight away.
Pacquiao now moves on to hopefully face the winner of the May 1 fight between Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather Jr., because there's little else left without another crazy move up in weight. Clottey was no challenge whatsoever for Pacquiao, who smiled, tapped gloves, and hugged his way through a genuinely easy contest. Clottey was begged by his corner to go for the KO, but never did. Not even once.
We'll have more in the next couple of days, but for now, all we have is Manny Pacquiao again dominating a fight. Clottey offered no resistance for Pacquiao, and all they did was smile at each other. Hooray!
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I was thoroughly entertained by Pacman. Everyone else at my viewing party, not so much. Except for Lampley’s “BANG, BANG, BANG”.
He needs to meet Emeril Lagasse for the ultimate onomatopoeia showdown.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 14, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe John Madden can show up for good measure
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
BAM! BANG! BOOM!
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 14, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
POW
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
BAM
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 14, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Seemed like lampley was a little pissed at this point. thought “hell, if clottey is going to be bore eveybody to death I can at least go crazy and amuse the home viewers.” it was strange.
"And so, as, uh, Heavyweight Champion recognized by nine of the fourteen sanctioning bodies..." -Drederick Tatum, The Simpsons
by BloodMeridian on Mar 14, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
Eating crow...
I gave Clottey the benefit of the doubt and believed him when he said he was gonna bring it….I don’t understand why he didn’t attack more….When your opponents eye is swollen it means you’re doing damage yet Clottey would back up Manny to the ropes and not attack…..Manny would put up his guard and again Clottey would do nothing….Props to Pacman on another win.
Was that really a fight?
- at least this time Clottey can’t claim being robbed!
He robbed us of a good competitive fight.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 14, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
He flat out declared this was the first time he really lost. and he should have. he was a major downer.
"And so, as, uh, Heavyweight Champion recognized by nine of the fourteen sanctioning bodies..." -Drederick Tatum, The Simpsons
by BloodMeridian on Mar 14, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
All I have to say is....
BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG
I specializes in grammar fail.
so i asked this in the live RBR thread...
so after what you just saw would you still have PBF over manny when (if) they fight? clottey and PBF have different styles obv, but work with me here
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 12:55 AM EST reply actions
Pac fan here, but I'm giving Floyd the W
Ugh that hurts saying that
by angelofdeath on Mar 14, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
What really?? Nah Nope Not Gonna Happen.
How many times……… People are getting tired of the naysayers that to learn to stop blabbering, Pac will beat and knock his ass out, he won’t even fight the Grand Master and I know Grand Master’s stronger than who ever that is, dude… Just stop… And appreciate the legend..
by Wilbur Rugger on Mar 14, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions
I appreciate a legend, however, Pacquiao is no legend. Sorry.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
I dunno
He can be legitimately placed in the top 10 or 5 Greatest of All Time category, that seems pretty legendary to me.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:09 AM EST up reply actions
I’m still sticking with my PBF pick.
Here’s how it breaks down for me:
- PBF has the strength advantage
- PBF has the technique advantage
- The speed is even, which is normally Manny’s biggest advantage.
If the speed were solidly in Manny’s column, I’d be much less certain about my PBF pick.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Mar 14, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
no way in hell is pbf stronger than pacman
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
just ignore him. i’ve learned to some months ago.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Mar 14, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
After watching this I think Manny-PBF is more competive than I originally thought
But then:
- PBF can pretty much match Pac’s speed
- PBF would counter WAY more effectively than Clottey (and Clottey did land 27% of his punches). He’d punish Pac every time he came in, thereby lowering his output.
- Most importantly, PBF could really disrupt Manny’s rythm and slice his punch output in half with his offence
Still, if Pac can maintain such a workrate over 12 rounds PBF will have to do a lot more than just potshot. And most agree that the key to threatening Floyd is to outwork him every second of every round, even if you aren’t landing clean. Pac is more than capable of doing that (if his shoddy defense holds up).
I still enjoyed watching the fight tonight. Pac’s footwork and punch output just make him the most exciting fighter to watch.
Hmm..
- PBF can pretty much match Pac’s speed
Match? No.. Floyd is much faster than Pacquiao.
- PBF would counter WAY more effectively than Clottey (and Clottey did land 27% of his punches). He’d punish Pac every time he came in, thereby lowering his output.
I wouldn’t even consider what Clottey was doing “countering”. Floyd wastes no movement. Everything counts towards something. Therefore I agree.
- Most importantly, PBF could really disrupt Manny’s rythm and slice his punch output in half with his offence
This is true.
Still, if Pac can maintain such a workrate over 12 rounds PBF will have to do a lot more than just potshot. And most agree that the key to threatening Floyd is to outwork him every second of every round, even if you aren’t landing clean. Pac is more than capable of doing that (if his shoddy defense holds up).
I still enjoyed watching the fight tonight. Pac’s footwork and punch output just make him the most exciting fighter to watch.
Floyd’s defense will hold up nicely because Pacquiao uses the same pattern. His technique is so rudimentry Floyd would easily neutralize it. Hatton was on Floyd’s tail every second of every round, however, Hatton’s inability to “box” worked against him whereas Floyd caught on in the latter rounds and dominated.
Sure, Pacquiao is exciting fight Boxers who are tailor made for his style and won’t punch back.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
I highly doubt that Floyd is stronger than Pacquiao
Of course “stronger” is an ambiguous phrase in boxing. Do you mean more powerful or more able to push his opponents around the ring? Mayweather doesn’t really do the latter and I would find the former dubious.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:12 AM EST up reply actions
don't know
I’ll have a clearer answer when Floyd fights the generally aggressive Mosley.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll have a clearer answer when Floyd fights the generally aggressive Mosley.
Mayweather-Mosley is going to the most one-sided loses in Mosley’s career.
Mayweather by E-A-S-Y UD.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
It's possible
I suspect that Mosley is going to look really rather old out there, which is a shame.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
The one really unnerving thing I saw from Pac tonight was the easy in which Clottey could tag Pac with the uppercut. Manny’s head got snapped back by that punch way too often for comfort going into a fight versus PBF. Floyd will do a good job of trying to answer every flurry from Pac with at least a punch or two, trying to remind the judges who is in control and who is landing the more effective punches. The important question from my standpoint is did you think Pac broke through Clottey’s defense or just threw enough punches to win? I tend to lean toward the second but in the end it really doesn’t matter since the outcome is similar either way….
I think his body punching was effective enough
For his win not just to be based simply on outworking.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
It'll not be on points
or who is in control in the judges’ eyes. It’s gonna be who’s going to be left standing taking punches.
If Pac ambushes Floyd and Floyd reatliates surely somebody is going down and knowing that Pac never stops as he had shown with this fight it won’t go the distance. I’d say around 4th round the fight will be over.
clottey’s guard is generally a lot tougher to crack than mayweather. now i’m not saying clottey has better defense, but his GUARD is better. mayweather uses head rolls and his shoulder to block from his right side (pacquiao’s left), and a typical guard on his left. like i said in my question two different styles, but PBF did tend to turtle in the DLH and throw a perfect counter and simply back off which cost him a few of the early rounds in that fight.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Rip-off
This fight was predictably lame. Would have been way more entertained to see Pac fight Bradley, who WAS available when the Mayweather fight collapsed. If Arum cared more about fans, that’s what we would have watched. If the boxing media didn’t feel the need to double as promoters, we might eventually get what we deserve as fans.
Bradley would've gotten blasted.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
by SSreporters on Mar 14, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Probably
Pac is just that great. But it would have been a more worthy, and, certainly, a more exciting fight than this.
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 14, 2010 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Pacquiao isn't great, by any means. The fans are whom put him where he's at. An overhyped affair in a lackluster Boxing atmosphere.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Pacquiao isn’t great, by any means. The fans are whom put him where he’s at. An overhyped affair in a lackluster Boxing atmosphere.
Pacquiao is great, by any means. The win are what’ve put him where he’s at. A very successful affair in what is only seen as a lackluster boxing atmosphere by unreasonable nostalgics.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
Atleast he would have thrown punches, not take a loss like it said in Clottey's contract.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Are you seriosuly implying that Clottey had a contractual agreement to throw this fight?
Because that’s simply absurd, you have zero evidence for that.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking it's sarcastic.
The Seattle Seahawks offense is driving......right into a brick wall at the end of the tunnel.
I would like to think so...
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
HAH!
Top Rank wouldn’t allow a fighter who would actually have a chance to beat Pacquiao—fight Pacquiao. Too much of a risk for Top Rank. If they lose Pacquiao, they have nobody else to build. Arum ruined Cotto, Maragrito’s license is still in limbo and Clottey was set-up to lose.
If Arum expects to go head-to-head with another Promotion—better yet, Gary Shaw Promotions, you know that they will have one helluva’ time trying to negotiate contracts. More than likely Pacquiao will have Bradley come up to 145.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
From what i saw tonight, I think an Alexander with a slightly better defense not only beats Pac but KOs him. Clottey caught Pac on the counter-punch quite flush a number of times. Devon would’ve made pac tentative with a couple of “snap-back” uppercuts. He also has the skills to make Manny miss and to open up punching lanes when Manny misses.
I'm glad I passed on this PPV....
I sensed Clottey would once again choke in a big fight. Well, he did. I am also upset that the promotores keep feeding us all these insanely over-priced PPV’s down our throats as if “Quality” actually floats through the air.. Well, it doesn’t.. I’ll catch the “Packy-Clottey” replay next week sometime on HBO…
P.S.
The hell is Jose Luis Castillo doing fighting a young tiger like Alphonso Gomez for? Castillo got his tail kicked.. Is that any real surprise??? Castillo needs to seriously consider retirement before he gets hurt……
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
gomez is more of a house cat than he is a tiger
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
hey, I can't blame you
I bet a lot of boxing fans passed on this one.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not that he choked. That is how Clottey fights, anyone who’s watch Clottey knows this. Everyone expect Clottey to jump out of his usual antics and fight Pacquiao a different way. Everybody knows what type of fighter Pacquiao; his style is fast-paced and relentless. There is no way an overly patient, pain absorber like Clottey was going to anything else but stand still and let their opponent physically beat them.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Seriously
Who would you rather Pacquiao fought? Mayweather and Mosley aside seeing as they are fighting each other, Clottey was the biggest challenge left at welterweight.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:20 AM EST up reply actions
Bradley
He would have come up to welter in a heartbeat for a Pacquiao fight. And the Cotto fight was wrong too. If it wasn’t for the “business of boxing” we all too readily accept, we would have seen Pacquiao vs. Mosley last November. Obviously the right next fight is the Mayweather/Mosley winner, but that’s two straight Pac fights that were the wrong fight. Thanks Bob.
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 14, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradley would been a dominant win for Pacquiao
Just like Clottey and Cotto, so why is it more valid? (I would love to see that fight too but I think this is a good dicussion so I’ll just run with it!)
Also how exactly was the Cotto fight wrong? He was a top 5, maybe top 3 welter and a common top 10 or 20 pound for pound guy. Seems pretty acceptable to me.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's about the best available fight
If you think Clottey was just as compelling an opponent going into the fight as Bradley would have been, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I certainly don’t. Clottey’s last fight was an underwhelming loss. ’nuff said.
When Pac-Cotto was made, Mosley was clearly on top of the welterweight heap, and he was begging for a Pacquiao fight. Again, if you were just as excited to watch him fight Cotto, fine, but I think the vast majority of boxing fans would have been much more up for Mosley. Cotto was simply Arum’s choice.
Pac’s last two fights would have been great on HBO, but of course he won’t be doing that anymore. All his fights will now cost $50-$60. For that price we should demand the best available fight, unless you like paying top dollar for less than the top fight.
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 14, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't pay actually
I live in Britain and also lack a TV.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 15, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
fight went kinda as expected when you think about it. pac is just too friggin fast especially for a plodder like clotty.
however, i’ll come away with this as the night jim lampley showed the world how epically horrible of a boxing announcer he really is. i’ve said for about 15 years now, its nice he finally is letting the rest of the world know.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
nah @ your second point. lamps rules, he’s drunk, etc etc etc
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
I love Lampley
I think he was very frustrated that clottey wasn’t doing anything. the bang bang moment was very odd.
"And so, as, uh, Heavyweight Champion recognized by nine of the fourteen sanctioning bodies..." -Drederick Tatum, The Simpsons
by BloodMeridian on Mar 14, 2010 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
I have defended Lampley with you before. Tonight ends that. Between this and his awful performance in Cotto-Pacquiao, I’ve given up. I want to like him, but it’s like rooting for JL Castillo at this point. Lamps is obviously past his prime. BANG. BANG. BANG. BANG. BANG.
Calm down, Cactus Jack.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
Can't stand Lampley
Yes, he great for heightening drama, but he’s usually biased (think of his favoritism for De La Hoya over Whitaker and many other examples), and most of all, he’s a blow-by-blow announcer who doesn’t call the blow-by-blow. He acts as yet another analyst. I hate that HBO’s idea of announcing is three or four guys debating a fight with only two participants, with none of them actually calling it. Don Dunphy, Howard Cosell, and, yes, even Bob Sheridan actually called fights, and they didn’t need a team to do it.
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 14, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Howard Cossell
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But I'm sure people somewhere will hate him
A lot of people look for different things in commentators. Just be thankful you aren’t subjected to Sky commentary!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
DOWN GOES FRAZIER
will always go down as one of the LAMEST calls in my history book. yes i understand the significance behind it, but much like john wayne’s acting its just too dry for me. i loathe howard cossell
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Love Him or Hate him...
when he wrongly abandoned boxing, it became less of a mainstream sport…a sad day (though I’ve come to believe the biggest thing relegating boxing to niche sport status was the advent of exlusive contracts with HBO and Showtime, the first one I remember being Hagler’s contract with HBO in the early ’80s).
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 14, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know how anyone can feel this was a rip off
You knew going in that Clottey hates throwing punches.
twitter.com/thisredengine
it wasn’t a rip off because clottey was supposedly a genuine threat. he threw down with cotto, but pacquiao is a different kind of beast.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Why do you think Arum chose Clottey?
…Easy pickin’ for Pacquiao. Easy victory.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
yeah twitter is mos def the nail in the coffin of lampley’s career. TWITTER HAS SPOKEN
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:26 AM EST reply actions
more thoughts
Back home on my computer. I can speak clearly. I’ll have more tomorrow, but this fight was exactly what I expected it to be. Ted Sares called pretty much the exact same thing too. In my heart I wanted to believe Clottey would put up more of a fight, but my head said otherwise. I respect the living hell out of Josh Clottey, but he’s a B+ fighter on his best days, a B on his worst, and tonight he was a B-. Pacquiao is better than him, which I knew going in. Manny is a brilliant tactical fighter at this point.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
and btw
A big thank you to everyone that joined us tonight. Not our biggest live thread, but a damn good one.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Gotta love Top Rank
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Mar 14, 2010 4:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Gotta love the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders!
Money well spent!
I suggest Jerry begins allocating funds to singing lessons before they're allowed to open their mouths.
"I do no speak of the future. Your demise is already an inescapable fact of the past. " - Aizen
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 -- 40-0-0 (25 KOs)
Best rendition of the USA national anthem I've ever heard.
I was cringing before their first notes, then smiling all the way to The Brave.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Wow somebody actually said Pac wasn't great
I guess Marquez, Morales and Barrera were a bunch of scrubs too… Everything I thought to be true was wrong…
He pretty much spends all his time harping on about Pacquiao
Being nothing but hype. It’s all he seems to be able to add to conversations other than “things were better back in the day” and “hey Mayweather is a fucking demigod”.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
'Demi?'
I think you understate the matter, personally.
Pacquiao is a legitimate top 10 p4p fighter in boxing history, if he hangs up the gloves today. I really don’t know that you can argue too much about the quality of his opposition. Even if you’re going to make the relatively weak claim that his last 4-5 fights have been against past-their-prime guys, then you have to look at his body of work at the lighter weights and put him up there with Leonard and Ali for fierce series and head-to-head clashes with the best in the business.
Is he hyped? Of course he is. Is he over-hyped? Maybe, maybe not. There’s certainly a case to be made that ANY great fighter/athlete is over-hyped. I don’t think it’s any more or less true of Pacquiao than it was of Ali, Leonard, Duran, Robinson, Tyson or others of that stature.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
My post wasn't aimed at you, cutman.
I was more responding to the odd tone of some who really do seem to think Manny isn’t an all-time great. Confuses me a bit.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Well put
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 15, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Performance
from Manny.What are the doubters gonna say now that he has shut-out a ‘real’ welter,and a top 5 guy at the weight.
Mayweather v Pac is a toss up,imo,but i know one thing,Floyd has never fought anyone as fast of hand and foot speed,unorthodox and just all round great as Pacquaio is.
I believe Pac also has the ability to slip some of May’s counters and counter the counter puncher at times.
You better believe Floyd is wary.I don’t agree what with what someone said earlier up that Floyd has faster hands.I would say even or advantage to Pac.
Floyd’s strength’s are obviously defence,counter punching and timing but he will be uncomfortable with the pressure Manny brings.
I’m a fan of both guys as boxers,but only one(Manny)as a person.
Nothing to do will who i like personally though,i would pick Manny on points at this stage.
Mayweather isn’t gonna throw half the punches that Pac does.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 7:28 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m a fan of both guys as boxers,but only one(Manny)as a person.
I hear that!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Good post.
I probably agree with every point.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
It would be interesting for me to see the compubox stats on this as Sky don’t show them.
I know it was totally one sided but i just want to know how many Pac landed.
Hopefully BLH put them up?
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 7:33 AM EDT reply actions
He landed at 20% of 1200 punches or so.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
And Clottey threw 399 I think
with a 27% accuracy rate?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Cheers.
Just throwing 1200 is very impressive and i imagine the connect % is pretty avarage against Clottey.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 7:57 AM EDT reply actions
Just Realised
the stats are in the article!
I’ll read it first next time :).
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
YEAH I KNOW,...STYLES MAKE FIGHTS,....BUT
I gotta ask, who would win at 147, JMM against Clottey? I’d have to take Clottey, yet when Floyd fought JMM, all the lil’ Floyd peeps said “he’s p4p #2”, so what he is a L/W. Manny fought a real BIG W/W, who came in thinkin’ I’ll counter this smaller guy soon as I figure out his style and he slows down a bit. Well he didn’t slow down, and you fought like “Safteypin” Johnson against Vitali,…just to survrive in hopes you’d get lucky late. Manny is a Phenom, and an ATG, put your prejudices aside and enjoy this special fighter while you can, stop with the bogus, baseless steroid accusations and give this man his just due. Manny will overwhelm May should they ever meet, he will force Floyd to fight Mannys fight, and Manny will hit him somewhere on his body all nite long. In the interim give Manny his props, he HAS earned it. Peace!!
Agreed
JMM was just a flabby replica of his true abilities at 147, Mayweather’s beating of him proved very little, especially compared to what pacquiao has done against Cotto and Clottey. He just made it look so easy last night!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll have to disagree with you
as I often do on this one. I did not see JMM as “flabby”. He was just overmatched by Floyd who made that fight look just as easy. I believe that more people gave JMM as chance than did Clottey of beating Pac. The PPV numbers will speak for themselves. I think this fight against Clottey proves very little as well. You mean you didn’t know that he was going to stand there with his gloves up? Really?
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I did not see JMM as "flabby".
How? He was.
He was just overmatched by Floyd
Well, yeah. No version of Marquez beats any version of Floyd. Take both of them at their best at 130 and Floyd still beats Marquez every time. But JMM was way over his best weight. I mean that’s just a fact.
I believe that more people gave JMM as chance than did Clottey of beating Pac.
This is kind of like the difference in baseball between going 70-92 or 62-100. Either way you’re playing golf in October.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
His weight had nothing to do with it and you know it. He was dominated. Period.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I just said that Mayweather would beat Marquez, and probably easily, at any weight. That does not eliminate the fact that Marquez was well overweight and Floyd shouldn’t have been fighting him in 2009 at welterweight. The fight was a gross mismatch and had no business happening. Mayweather took a gimme.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Well over 1 million people disagree with you. They wanted to see it. I thought it was a good fight for a guy coming from that long of a layoff. If he had contracted with anyone other that Mosely for this fight then I would be thinking the same.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
A million people buying the fight — and I was one of them — doesn’t mean they all disagreed that the fight was a serious mismatch. Mayweather is a star, and the fight was an event. Plus Marquez is the best Mexican fighter in the game, and the Mexican audience can really boost a PPV. Which I’m not saying is a bad thing or as a negative, but it is what it is.
The fight wasn’t credible, and I don’t care how many people they convinced to buy it. People buy Daughtry albums, too. The biggest movie of all-time is Avatar, not Citizen Kane or The Godfather. That doesn’t mean Avatar is the better film.
Right now I’m thrilled with Floyd. Fighting Mosley is exactly what people like me want from him. I mean, that’s it. If he wipes out Mosley too, then good for him. But he’s taking the real challenge. He could have fought Mosley last September, too. Mosley won a fight on January 24 and tried to get Floyd to fight him. Floyd said, “I’m retired.” On February 28, Marquez won a fight at lightweight and staged a call-out. Floyd said, “Bring it on!”
I mean, doesn’t that say anything at all to you? Mosley gets done mauling a guy who some people thought was going to retire him, and Floyd’s retired. A whole month later, the lightweight champion gets hit a ton but knocks out another lightweight in a great fight, and alright, Mr. De Mille, Floyd’s ready for his close-up.
That was my real issue with that fight. And I can “forgive” it (not that it or Floyd’s bank account needs my piddly “forgiveness”) now that he’s going to fight Sugar Shane and not Paul Malignaggi or Nate Campbell, but the Marquez fight still stunk from the minute they signed the contracts, and I have almost no regard for the outcome of that fight. It’s about as useful to me in analyzing Mayweather as would be a Mayweather-Delvin Rodriguez fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
whoah
sunset blvd AND citizen kane references, how old are you?
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No it doesn't mean anything to me
because I know that when Mosely was on top and Floyd wanted to fight him, Mosely turned it down to get his tooth fixed on go on vacation. I can post the youTube video if you need proof.
Hindsight is always perfect. You can’t buy a fight and then be upset because it was a mismatch. That’s your fault. I knew your boy Marquez was going to get blasted the same way I knew Baldomir was going to get blasted. Their styles didn’t match up to Floyd’s. If you want to continue crying about the JMM fight then go ahead, it’s your world player. But the people who bought that fight DID NOT think it was a mismatch. Analyze it any way you want, but folks don’t spend hard earned money if they think their champion has no chance. Maybe they do in your world.
P.S. I don’t know how you pulled Avatar out your arse in a boxing conversation.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I don’t know how you pulled Avatar out your arse in a boxing conversation.
He was making the point to that popularity doesn’t mecessarily equal higher quality. In this case, just because many people bought a fight that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a clear mismatch from the moment it was signed.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t buy a fight and then be upset because it was a mismatch.
I wasn’t upset. I just said it sucked. It sucked.
That’s your fault.
It has absolutely nothing to do with “fault.” I bought the fight because I like boxing.
I knew your boy Marquez was going to get blasted the same way I knew Baldomir was going to get blasted.
Gee, Criswell, that’s amazing. You and everyone else on the planet who knows their ass from a hole in the ground.
If you want to continue crying about the JMM fight then go ahead
I’m not crying. I said the fight sucked. You can disagree.
But the people who bought that fight DID NOT think it was a mismatch.
I already said this. My point is nobody who knows anything thought Marquez had a shot to win that fight. I don’t care if a bunch of people bought Daughtry’s album, don’t care if everyone and their mom saw Avatar, don’t care if Budweiser is the No. 1 beer in America, don’t care if someone who doesn’t really know what they’re talking about thought Marquez had a shot to win the fight. Daughtry sucks, Avatar was merely OK, Budweiser sucks, and Marquez never stood a chance, which is pretty much exactly why your boy Floyd fought him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
BUT, OK
I’ll concede this: of course not all the people thought it was a mismatch. I don’t mean to say that. But not everyone who bought it believed it was a super competitive matchup, either, which is kind of what you were implying. You and I both knew Mayweather would smoke him, and I’ll guarantee a GOOD chunk of the audience felt the same. They bought the fight because they’re Floyd Mayweather fans. I don’t think the fanbase that really loves him gets enough credit for his buyrates. Sometimes it’s like everyone thinks he sells just because he’s a villain and people buy to see him lose. That’s not true. Some people do buy because he’s a great “bad guy,” and a lot of people just really like him because he’s good.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
avatar was an awesome action movie, what you talking about
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that Mayweather is better than Marquez
And beats him at any weight. However beating a top five welter is more credible than beating a guy whose optimum weight is 130!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Beating a guy 12-0 who tries to fight is more impressive than beating a guy 12-0 who is a punching bag. JMM tried to take the fight to Mayweather and could not.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I could try to beat mayweather
But that wouldn’t make me more impressive than Clottey.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhmm No you couldn't
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
I didn't think this would need spelling out
I could TRY, I wouldn’t get far but according to your logic that would make me a more valid win than clottey just because I tried to “take the fight to him”.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me spell it out for you
Using yourself as an example is not a good argument because you are not a fighter nor a contender. Roach complained after the fight that he was frustrated because Clottey didn’t try to win it. I don’t want to see that kind of fight. I’d rather see a guy like JMM give it his all and get outclassed than that.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Nevermind...
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
just leave him alone. some people (craigman, option47) are just incredibly huge fans of PBF and believe the man can do no wrong.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 14, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The undercard was awful,
Lampley and Kellerman nearly suffered hyperbolic orgasms as Pacquiao was making his ring entrance, the Lampley “bang bang bang” crap was sorry, Clottey = exactly what he’s always been (so nobody but me ripped me off for my fifty dollars), there is no way Mayweather is “much” faster than Manny. …
A fight in a major stadium is very cool. I appreciated the atmosphere.
The “atmospherics” of the production though? Almost Super-Bowl bad.
Bottom lines: I’ll not pay fifty dollars for many PPV’s as the whole trend now is to present the worst under-card possible (and seems to include not showing some of PPV’s for free the next week). If I feel the need to see a fight as it unfolds and am going to pay to do so, I’d rather tune in at nine o’clock, watch the fight I want to see, go to bed, and be able to make it to the gym in the morning: I don’t need several hours of the HBO crew + lousy fights as part of the deal. Manny, in what he does, is a once-in-a-lifetime fighter. Floyd is once in a lifetime too, but I’m no longer completely sure how much of a “fighter” he truly is. Watching Castillo was depressing. There was one shot of him in his corner and all I could think of was some “B” level Hollywood production about a once very good fighter reduced to something resembling a sad and shuffling circus act. There is not a lot of dignity offered in life. One needs to hold on as best as one can. We’re all television stars.
I really didn’t care for/give a shit about/enjoy the “Max Kellerman is somewhere in the building! Let’s see what he’s up to now!” segments. I thought the stadium was tremendous, but that was overkill.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Might
as well have been Katy Couric. T
by Don From Prov on Mar 14, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
An
aging couple lived below me in East Providence.
The old guy, maybe 82, had an ongoing bowel obstruction problem.
The woman snapped at him one day: “You can’t shit if you don’t eat!”
Right.
You can’t win if you don’t punch.
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